Wales Unchanged

No surprises really Gatland has named an unchanged starting XV for the Ireland game with two changes on the bench. Rob Evans in place of Paul James and Jake Ball instead of Bradley Davies.

Its good to see Ball back on the bench as didn't see what warranted him being dropped altogether and a great chance for Evans if he gets on.

Congratulations to POC on his 100th cap but hope its not one for him to remember.

Only 100th????

Jesus, he looks like he'd been around for aeons.

Well, if the France game was George North's 50th cap, this is POc's 107th.

Isnt it his 100th Irish cap?

His 100th Test cap was in Argentina last year I think.

I just checked it. Saturday will be his 100th cap for Ireland.

So how will Wales approach this? Will Gatland have some tricks up his sleeve or a plan B ( ) ?

profitius wrote:So how will Wales approach this? Will Gatland have some tricks up his sleeve or a plan B ( ) ?

Damn you - just knocked my coffee over trying too control my mirth !

profitius wrote:So how will Wales approach this? Will Gatland have some tricks up his sleeve or a plan B ( ) ?

I asked them that about a week ago. But they just won't be drawn on it. That's suspicious. Gats is cooking something. The neighbours must be awake all night as he panel beats and angle grinds.

Finally Plan B is a coming!!!!!! Oh I do hope Joe's plan A holds out long enough.

There is always a plan B. Its just suspiciously close to plan A

To quote Gatland from a previous game when asked if there was a Plan B:

"It was not a case of not having a Plan B because we did not execute Plan A. We were simply not good enough and a Plan Z would not have made any difference to the result."

SecretFly wrote:Only 100th????

Jesus, he looks like he'd been around for aeons.

I think he looks like Ted Danson, and a bit like a seagull.

Yeah I can see Ted in him.  
The seagull?????.....................  

Yeah. can see that too.  

Good calls.  Are you an artist Luckless?

Well, I can draw the curtains...

That'll do. It's all most of them can manage actually

So Sexton has been passed fit and Jared Payne and Sean O'Brien also look to have passed all the return to play stuff. So Ireland will probably also be unchanged.

Notch wrote:So Sexton has been passed fit and Jared Payne and Sean O'Brien also look to have passed all the return to play stuff. So Ireland will probably also be unchanged.

There is a strong chance that Heaslip will replace Murphy.

O'Brien needs a bit and a bridle for his first five or six games back. He needs reining in or it'll be 'curtains' for his world cup.

Actually Guns is right, we probably have got Heaslip back as well.

Pretty much a first choice XV for Ireland this week. It's been a while since we've been able to say that.

Careful of rust though, losty.  Wales in Wales is not a side you want to meet with a rust job that needs spraying. They're always ready with the colour red.

SecretFly wrote:Careful of rust though, losty.  Wales in Wales is not a side you want to meet with a rust job that needs spraying.

2 losses in 32 years suggests that we could even win in Cardiff with a Matt O'Connor coached team.

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Careful of rust though, losty.  Wales in Wales is not a side you want to meet with a rust job that needs spraying.

2 losses in 32 years suggests that we could even win in Cardiff with a Matt O'Connor coached team.

You haven't been singing in that direction in the last week though, Guns. Barnes factor might make the rust more obvious.

It's a ridiculous record.

SecretFly wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Careful of rust though, losty.  Wales in Wales is not a side you want to meet with a rust job that needs spraying.

2 losses in 32 years suggests that we could even win in Cardiff with a Matt O'Connor coached team.

You haven't been singing in that direction in the last week though, Guns.  Barnes factor might make the rust more obvious.

I know I'm messing. Look at the Wales team, there doesnt seem to be any weaknesses at all on paper. We are playing well though and Id fancy our chances but I am worried about Barnes. I have witnessed too many Barnes dodgy calls go against Ireland to not be worried.

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Careful of rust though, losty.  Wales in Wales is not a side you want to meet with a rust job that needs spraying.

2 losses in 32 years suggests that we could even win in Cardiff with a Matt O'Connor coached team.

But we were unbeaten 8 games in a row against you in the 70s soon it must mean we'll win this time...

My point being, cherry picking results means very little. It's perhpas best to look at the last 5 years or so as it contains a number of the same players who will be playing on Saturday. Otherwise the historical comparison is pointless. The last 5 years is fairly even actually. So many of these same players have experienced victory and defeat against the same team. I'd still put Ireland as favourites but what happened in a match 32 years agold means diddly squat.

theslosty wrote:Pretty much a first choice XV for Ireland this week. It's been a while since we've been able to say that.

Probably is, minus Trimble.

Griff wrote:

My point being, cherry picking results means very little. It's perhpas best to look at the last  5 years or so as it contains a number of the same players who will be playing on Saturday. Otherwise the historical comparison is pointless.

It's like playing poker here. You don't know whether to concentrate on the hands or the eyes. Last five years? Oh I must look up that on wiki!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What the hell is this? Three Welsh wins and two Irish ones?????? Five years me *&^&%%$£!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:

My point being, cherry picking results means very little. It's perhpas best to look at the last  5 years or so as it contains a number of the same players who will be playing on Saturday. Otherwise the historical comparison is pointless.  

It's like playing poker here.  You don't know whether to concentrate on the hands or the eyes.  Last five years?  Oh I must look up that on wiki!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What the hell is this?  Three Welsh wins and two Irish ones??????  Five years me *&^&%%$£!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, 5 years is 3 a piece 'Fly. 2010 as the starting point. WC game to add in too. I just think its a more realistic comparison as these players in the main will actually be playing again against many of the same players. Why chuck in Mike Gibson's stats? What do they have to do with POC et al.?!

But choosing 32 years?! Why??? I tell you why, it's because it suits his argument more. 32 years makes it look better. But why 32 years? Why 1983? Its not the start of the 6N. Not the start of one of the coach's tenures. It's just an arbitrary year. So I'll pick an arbitrary year too: 1970. 45 years. The head to head: 24 to Ireland and 22 to Wales, 1 draw. Fairly even, then. So it could go either way perhaps, based on those stats...

Fun With Stats, Episode 1.

Griff wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Careful of rust though, losty.  Wales in Wales is not a side you want to meet with a rust job that needs spraying.

2 losses in 32 years suggests that we could even win in Cardiff with a Matt O'Connor coached team.

But we were unbeaten 8 games in a row against you in the 70s soon it must mean we'll win this time...

My point being, cherry picking results means very little. It's perhpas best to look at the last  5 years or so as it contains a number of the same players who will be playing on Saturday. Otherwise the historical comparison is pointless. The last 5 years is fairly even actually. So many of these same players have experienced victory and defeat against the same team. I'd still put Ireland as favourites but what happened in a match 32 years agold means diddly squat.

The last time Wales won in 2012 the teams were actually quite different particularly the Wales team:

Ireland: R Kearney; Bowe, McFadden, D'Arcy, Trimble; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Ross, O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip.


Wales: Halfpenny; Cuthbert, J Davies, Roberts, North; Priestland, Phillips, Gill, Bennett, A Jones, B Davies, Evans, R Jones, Warburton, Faletau.

Right...things are getting slim now in the banter/bum/boast box of allowable grenades.

No ref talk allowed - Barnes will be Barnes to both.
No Stat boast chat allowed beyond a 5 year cut off (strict rules apply to transgressors)
No talk about a roof being closed or not
No talk about Plan Bs

I give up................  Hanson is going to be mad at how boring 606 has become.....

GunsGerms wrote:

Griff wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Careful of rust though, losty.  Wales in Wales is not a side you want to meet with a rust job that needs spraying.

2 losses in 32 years suggests that we could even win in Cardiff with a Matt O'Connor coached team.

But we were unbeaten 8 games in a row against you in the 70s soon it must mean we'll win this time...

My point being, cherry picking results means very little. It's perhpas best to look at the last  5 years or so as it contains a number of the same players who will be playing on Saturday. Otherwise the historical comparison is pointless. The last 5 years is fairly even actually. So many of these same players have experienced victory and defeat against the same team. I'd still put Ireland as favourites but what happened in a match 32 years agold means diddly squat.

The last time Wales won in 2012 the teams were actually quite different particularly the Wales team:

Ireland: R Kearney; Bowe, McFadden, D'Arcy, Trimble; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Ross, O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip.


Wales: Halfpenny; Cuthbert, J Davies, Roberts, North; Priestland, Phillips, Gill, Bennett, A Jones, B Davies, Evans, R Jones, Warburton, Faletau.

So why go back 32 years then?!!! Even fewer of the players were playing then, Obvs!

SecretFly wrote:Right...things are getting slim now in the banter/bum/boast box of allowable grenades.

No ref talk allowed - Barnes will be Barnes to both.
No Stat boast chat allowed beyond a 5 year cut off (strict rules apply to transgressors)
No talk about a roof being closed or not
No talk about Plan Bs

I give up................  Hanson is going to be mad at how boring 606 has become.....

Whatever you do dont mention 2002.........




.......3 February 2002, Lansdowne Road, Ireland 54 – 10 Wales

Griff wrote:

So why go back 32 years then?!!! Even fewer of the players were playing then, Obvs!

Paulie got his first cap that year, bless him.  And only for Schmidt Shafted poor D'Arcy he too would be walking onto the pitch remembering his first start all those years ago.  The Golden Generation keeps getting greyer.

As stats go it has to be one of the strangest, only losing twice in that long, I remember through 80 and 90 that it seemed the away team would always win with us having a good record in Dublin then.

Ireland have obviously continued that away winning streak, I still think this game is to close to call. Most will say that games are won and lost up front but for me Murray and Sexton hold the key.

I hope - hope - Ireland are more than Sexton.  If they're not then we're an illusion.

It's all very well saying Ireland fell apart when he left sometime in the second half against England.  But I think that's a little unfair to the fill-in who had to try to take an already hot game by the horns that England (then ranked 3rd in world) were always going to come back at.  It's just unfortunate that their comeback was roughly in the same period as Sexton had to leave the game. Balance was lost and England nearly capitalised

But I don't think Schmidt has a game developed that relies so much on one player remaining healthy.  We initially thought O'Driscoll's loss would finally be the sign that Schmidt couldn't continue the miracle without a world class centre.

Now it's Sexton who is considered indispensable.  I'm not at all so certain.

Fly,

Not only do I think he is the best 10 in the world at the moment i think his partnership with Murray is one of the best about at the moment and they way they control the game just keeps Ireland going forward and on the front foot allowing them to play their game in the right areas.

Oh they are what they are, Bedford.  I sometimes personally think Murray drifts a little in intensity when he should sustain it - but they do what they do.

But my point is that Schmidt knows how vulnerable an idea would be to rely on the fitness and form of one player in particular (Sexton) going into the rest of the year as he plays out his club season, then onto summer with heavy enough warm up games and then into the full blast of the world cup.
You can't plan a guarantee that a single player is going to remain central and injury free.  So he must have other ideas on the cards or faith in the alternatives.  We can't be a one player side any more than any of the other top sides can afford to be.

So Gats as picking the same Wales team. So i guess that means it will be same Welsh game plan. Ireland will surely be aware of this and will be ready for it. Will we possible see a plan (B) from the Welsh team?

Rolling out the cliches, Maj. Not like you!

There is a plan B , try even harder to make plan A work. glad Wales keeping the same side , and also glad sexton playing . rather if possible to beat Ireland with him in the team

As I mentioned before I think this 'plan B' thing is a bit of a tired old cliche rolled out by people without any thought. It gets rolled out by posters and the media when Wales don't magically change the way they're playing mid game, but in reality I can't think of many teams who either do this or are able to do this. The All Blacks v Wales in the autumn did it. They're good enough. It wasn't just a change of gears. They started to play a different way. But who else?

I didn't see a plan B from England last week when plan A wasn't working against Ireland. Ireland themselves seem to be taking one approach at the moment. It's winnng so why change it I suppose. Did scotland roll out Vern's plan B against Italy? Not a chance. They stuck to their guns and lost. They didn't seem to change tactics against wales either in their loss at Murrayfield. They just plugged away at the same thing. Wales didn't change tactics against England when it went t*ts up a few weeks back, but neither did England in the fateful 30-3 game two seasons before.

I'm just thinking off the top of my head, but can anyone enlighten me on the teams who are best at changing it up mid game when needed? Cos I don't really see it much, if at all. Most noticeably in the NH.

majesticimperialman wrote:So Gats as picking the same  Wales team. So i guess that means it will be same Welsh game plan. Ireland will surely be aware of this and will be ready for it. Will we possible see a plan (B) from the Welsh team?

With a few personnel preferences aside it's the strongest side we can put there is however 7 changes from the last time these two sides met last year. With the regularity of the Pro12 fixtures between the REgions and Provinces then the sides know each other inside out anyway.

majesticimperialman wrote:So Gats as picking the same  Wales team. So i guess that means it will be same Welsh game plan. Ireland will surely be aware of this and will be ready for it. Will we possible see a plan (B) from the Welsh team?

Talking of the same old delivery of the same old game plan…will you and the other detractors ever find anything else to express your derision?

Gwlad wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:So Gats as picking the same  Wales team. So i guess that means it will be same Welsh game plan. Ireland will surely be aware of this and will be ready for it. Will we possible see a plan (B) from the Welsh team?

Talking of the same old delivery of the same old game plan…will you and the other detractors ever find anything else to express your derision?

You're probably going to lose him at detractors.

Griff wrote:As I mentioned before I think this 'plan B' thing is a bit of a tired old cliche rolled out by people without any thought. It gets rolled out by posters and the media when Wales don't magically change the way they're playing mid game, but in reality I can't think of many teams who either do this or are able to do this. The All Blacks v Wales in the autumn did it. They're good enough. It wasn't just a change of gears. They started to play a different way. But who else?

I didn't see a plan B from England last week when plan A wasn't working against Ireland. Ireland themselves seem to be taking one approach at the moment. It's winnng so why change it I suppose. Did scotland roll out Vern's plan B against Italy? Not a chance. They stuck to their guns and lost. They didn't seem to change tactics against wales either in their loss at Murrayfield. They just plugged away at the same thing. Wales didn't change tactics against England when it went t*ts up a few weeks back, but neither did England in the fateful 30-3 game two seasons before.

I'm just thinking off the top of my head, but can anyone enlighten me on the teams who are best at changing it up mid game when needed? Cos I don't really see it much, if at all. Most noticeably in the NH.

I wholeheartedly agree.

In the cauldron of an international when on the losing side players need to analyse their decision making and their performance and adapt quickly once a), they have worked out what they are tactically doing wrong and b), what they need to do to rectify it.

When you consider the amount of information they currently enter the game with, and the intensity they modern game is played at, it takes some nerve.

Great teams need great players who can read the game well. Who can make these decisions. Those players are very few and far between.

When people talk about tactical changes it is not so much about changing during a agme, but going into a game doing something different to that expected.

Ireland, in defence, did that against England. They did not utilise the choke tackle, that england will have prepared for, instead chopping the ball carrier down and the second man getting over the ball. England were ready for Wales to do this, as that is what they do, but struggled to adapt when Ireland did something different to what they expected.

Now what if Wales, instead of always using roberts as a battering ram, used him as a decoy? What if when kicking, instead of using Webb to box kick or Biggar, The Ospreys 10 moves it on again to 1/2p or Williams to change the angle and direction. Subtle changes that can make a difference and demonstrate some flexibility in the coaches planning.

LondonTiger wrote:When people talk about tactical changes it is not so much about changing during a agme, but going into a game doing something different to that expected.

Ireland, in defence, did that against England. They did not utilise the choke tackle, that england will have prepared for, instead chopping the ball carrier down and the second man getting over the ball. England were ready for Wales to do this, as that is what they do, but struggled to adapt when Ireland did something different to what they expected.

Now what if Wales, instead of always using roberts as a battering ram, used him as a decoy? What if when kicking, instead of using Webb to box kick or Biggar, The Ospreys 10 moves it on again to 1/2p or Williams to change the angle and direction. Subtle changes that can make a difference and demonstrate some flexibility in the coaches planning.

But that's the point - they do change this up a bit, but people choose not to notice! I think it was the England game where Roberts was hardly passed the ball? Or was it one of the Autumn games? Can't remember. But it was there for sure.

But you make some good points LT. Definitely going into a game with a different tactic or approach is the way forward.