Your England team for Le Crunch

First topic message reminder :

The game dubbed "Le Crunch" as it was often the winner takes all clash in the Six Nations will round off this years tournament. Although not winner takes all, England will go into the match with a shot at the title.

This match could be seen as crunch time for Lancaster's nearly men of the last 4 years. But who does he pick to try to win England's fifth Six Nations Championship?

Does he stick with the guys who have got him to the final day party? Does he load the bench with attacking flair in case Wales or Ireland score big early in the day? Does he look towards the World Cup and bring in any new faces? Or does he go with someone completely left field like Armitage or Burgess?

For me, he has to stick largely with the same team and trust them to finish the job. However, Youngs, Parling and Wood all showed up well off the bench against Scotland and in the latter two cases have more recent experience and are more likely to make the World Cup squad, so I'd consider a triple change in the forwards, however with the same 13 involved in the match day squad.

In the backs Burrell is on the shakiest ground, although with no decent replacement is likely to get the nod to continue. It's the bench that interest me most here. Wigglesworth is probably fine to stay, although I would only use him if Youngs is having a shocker or the trophy is in the bag.

But it's always puzzled me as to why we have a 10 and a 10/12 on the bench. Cipriani should have come on for Ford against Ireland and Twelvetrees should have come on for Burrell against Scotland. Neither starter was having a good game and that Lancaster didn't replace them shows he doesn't have all that much faith in either replacement. Neither make the World Cup for me, so I would drop them both.

I'd have World Cup hopeful Slade in the 22 shirt as he can cover 10, 12 and 13 and can therefore come on in a wider variety of situations.

That leaves back three cover in the 23 shirt. May coming on as the game breaks up would be some prospect to have, but the devil in me would be tempted by Christian Wade. Not the finished article, but if England are chasing tries in the last 15 I can't think of anyone else I'd rather have sitting on the bench.

So two call ups for me and three changes to the starting line up.

Yeah, key people for me to start to be brought through are either of those 2 7s, probably Kvesic given his form and Frasers injuries, Cowan-Dickie and Slade.

Attwood is just not aggressive enough to be a good international player. He goes missing when the toughest work needs to be done. Parling is a great professional and a step up from Attwood. SL has made a good call.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Parling is becoming massively under rated. The guy is very good. I'd agree we have a lot of very good options coming through at lock, and elsewhere to be fair. Next couple of years are important to integrate the right ones and build experience.

One of my favourite memories of the last Lions tour was after the loss to the Brumbies, and Parling is holding court in the dressing room and everyone is listening. Showed to me his leadership skills, and his confidence in himself to speak to far more experienced players in that squad. There's a lot said about inexperience in England, which applies to both number of caps and age. Parling has been around a long time, and isn't learning on the job like you feel alot of the England team are at times.

no 7 & 1/2 massively underrated? Parling? Really? He's practically been treated like he's a deity. I would say he's overrated actually.

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 massively underrated? Parling? Really? He's practically been treated like he's a deity. I would say he's overrated actually.

People who rate Parling: Warren Gatland, Rob Baxter, Stuart Lancaster, Graham Rowntree, Paul O'Connell, Alun-Wyn Jones, Bead Thorn

People who do not rate Parling: Stephen Jones (Sunday Times journo), At least 50% of 606 posters, DailyMail keyboard warriors.

One question do Lawes and Parling go together, regardless of how good they both are as players.

Londontiger just giving my personal opinion. It's no surprise you're going to defend him - afterall he does play for your club.

Not saying he's a bad player - just think his weaknesses are ignored, also I wouldn't start him vs France.

I find it laughable that anyone would call him underrated.

You would find it laughable beshocked. I do think he's under rated among some fans. He's normally one of our best players he's gone on tour with the Lions, he's a quality player, better than Attwood certainly. Better than Borthwick in my opinion who was great for Saracens but didn't have quite the same impact at the top level.

no 7 & 1/2 yes I do find it laughable. Though that's not new.

Geoff Parling did okay on the Lions tour but he has his flaws - he's too lightweight and not a strong ball carrier. His lineout ability is also a bit overrated - it's pretty good but no better than most 2nd rowers, certainly not as good as Borthwick.

Parling's weaknesses are ignored.

beshocked wrote:I find it laughable that anyone would call him underrated.

As most of the people on these boards do not rate him, why laughable? After all when people talk about being under-rated it is usually by fans they mean.

Now the reverse is a player like Armitage that most fans love, but coaches ignore.

A lot of people just point out his weaknesses though beshocked, especially being underpowered. Under rated player definitely.

Beshocked seems to think that if 5 posters on v2 can agree that a player isn't bad and worthy of an England slot, they are to be classified as a "deity" or a "messiah" , especially if there is an alternative candidate who happens to play for Saracens

Londontiger most on these boards don't rate him? I have seen nothing but praise. Okay not necessarily from me but I am not most people.

I don't think he's a bad player but Lancaster's current approach to selection is disappointing.

Dropping players that perhaps shouldn't have been dropped and keeping woefully out of form players in.

I would say there are far more England players who get criticised more than Parling like Eastmond for his size, Burgess for not being ready,Goode - supposedly being too slow and not international class, May for being road runner, 36 for supposedly having the skills but not delivering, the list goes on.

In contrast I would say Parling's flaws are largely ignored at the moment.

Maybe they're criticised more because they don't perform as well? Parling has never let England down but there when he was a regular plenty wanted a heavy duty 2nd row like Attwood ahead of him as he wasn't a great carrier and while his tackles were effective didn't knock people back.

I think Parling is a bit under rated (by some anyway). I know it's some time back, but I think it was the AIs before the most recent, where I thought he was the best English player on the pitch. These days he is vying for 3rd choice lock with Attwood (with Kruis in the mix). And is a little under-powered compared to the bruiser that Attwood is. Except that Attwood isn't that much of a bruiser in an England shirt. And Parling isn't that poor a carrier. So I have no problem with him starting over Attwood this game tbh.

no 7 & 1/2 you say he's never let England down. I don't think the lineout has ever been that impressive under his watch. People wanted a heavy duty 2nd row because our scrum hasn't exactly been strong with him involved.

We'll see what Parling does on the weekend.

It never ruled supreme under Borthwick either and he was the professor. Like I say he was quality, got picked for the Lions and people were always looking at the next big thing. That's why i say he's under rated.

no 7 &1/2 you talk about being underrated.

How can be underrated when as Londontiger says - so many people love him.

Fine no one is under rated or over rated as you always have a mix of opinions.

Overrated or underrated is very subjective indeed.

Of course it is by the nature of judgement.

beshocked wrote:Londontiger most on these boards don't rate him? I have seen nothing but praise. Okay not necessarily from me but I am not most people.

I don't think he's a bad player but Lancaster's current approach to selection is disappointing.

Dropping players that perhaps shouldn't have been dropped and keeping woefully out of form players in.

I would say there are far more England players who get criticised more than Parling like Eastmond for his size, Burgess for not being ready,Goode - supposedly being too slow and not international class, May for being road runner, 36 for supposedly having the skills but not delivering, the list goes on.

In contrast I would say Parling's flaws are largely ignored at the moment.

I'm pretty sure that other than Goode (obviously) you've made every single one of those criticisms yourself (not all wrong by any means)

You can also add

Nowell - doesn't score enough tries
Slade - new messiah
Hartley - doesn't hit his jumpers
Burrell - can't pass

Parling's barely been in the squad recently, he's been on the bench for the last 2, was out of the whole autumn series, can't remember how much he played in NZ either so its hardly like there's been much chance for him to be criticised

Bambam not going to argue with most of that.

there are so many people ready to pan Goode what more do I need to say?

I feel compelled to defend Goode simply because I don't think he's as bad as made out. He does have his weaknesses, I have mentioned it - not as often as others but I still have said that he lacks pace and power. He's not as good as Brown. I think calling him not international class is harsh though.

To be fair to Nowell he scored on the weekend - it was good to see. Needs to work on his handling but the threat in attack was promising at least. Nowell has at least scored some tries this season in the AP.

The rest I agree.

Slade does look like a good prospect but let's not throw him in too early (like I felt England did with Nowell).

Hartley and Burrell are just in poor form - doesn't make them bad players.

I should add that time and again I have said that Farrell Jr shouldn't have started in the AIs.

Form is important. Farrell hasn't been in good form since last year's 6 nations.

About Parling - we'll see how he does.

It's clear to a blind man that both parling and Easter are more effective than Attwood. Attwood is a big guy who plays like a little guy.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

thomh wrote:GF

I'm not so keen on that pack either. Vunipola aside it's pretty much the same one that got the absolute **** kicked out of them in Wales 2 years ago. Some have improved a lot and Lawes is magnificent, but it just seems to lacking a bit of ballast, particularly when combined with that backline.

Thomh

I totally agree...and that's why everyone has been calling for Attwood and Haskell for some serious muscle and carrying. The problem is that they have failed to deliver. And the old reliables...Parling and Wood etc came on and improved the performance.

We cant really blame Lancaster for that. Attwood and Haskell should now be ruled out of the WC squad.

I think Slater is the one that was missed. Had he not got that injury he could have nailed a spot hes got some serious ballast.

Post world cup...the like of Itoje and Dom Barrow (whos a monster 6'8 nearing 20 stone, but just having a few injury issues at the moment) can come into the equation.

For the France game...you must go with what we know unfortunately...

1 Marler
2 Youngs
3 Cole
4 Lawes
5 Parling
6 Wood  .....or Garvey  
7 Robshaw
8 Billy V

Lancaster has given Attwood and Haskell a chance which is what we wanted...but I also wonder if he's missed the chance to try a few others out...maybe Kvesic, Calum Clark who was in ridiculous form , Garvey or Evers maybe. What about Jaime George at hooker.
A few players who could bring some real ballast to the side but keep the mobility going.
If they don't perform then you can draw a line through them....but at least he would know one way or another.

Disagree on Haskell and Wood. Haskell's form for club was great, and despite being so-so, I still think he's a better player than Wood.

Neither Parling or Attwood are top notch. Attwood always looks like he forgot to be aggressive, Parling will make 400 tackles...and every single one will involve the opposition getting over the gain-line with momentum.

Is everyone getting ahead of themselves? The way I read it is that we're all assuming that we'll beat France, surely this is a mistake? Yes this is anti-French French team with a coach, a 'petit general' setting up his side (as he's always done, Sale & Gloucester) in very Big terms, but look at it from their position, what have they got to lose and wouldn't they just love to put one over England at Twickenham.

There's alot more riding on this game than just the 6 nations championship and our world cup aspirations, first and formost there's a game to be won against a desperate and dangerous France at Twickenham.