Should the final round of the 6Nations take place simultaneously?

So once again the nations is going down to the wire & we're faced with a real super Saturday with England, Ireland & Wales all gunning for the title*.

Given its a 3 horse race, spread out nicely over the 3 games, should they be staggered or should all the games be played at once like the final weekend of the premier league etc?

Personally I like the current set up, great from a fans point of view, but well aware it does favour the team that goes last. Knowledge is power after all!

Thoughts?




(*yes in theory France could win it if Wales & Ireland lost, then they beat England by 18 points)

Personaly i say keep it as it is.

Yes it may give the team/s that play last an advantage. in knowing what they have to do to win. But that is the beauty of the 6ns.

It's a celebration of rugby over and above winners or losers.  People want to see the games - all of them.  

Yes, there is obviously times when some sides have a better chance to help themselves than other sides (First or Last to go).  But so be it, that's the nature of it and those 'advantages' hold sway anyway in the yearly Home/Away advantages or disadvantages.

I like it how it is.

No, it's already an unfair system as its not strictly even home and away. Teams will play different numbers of home games to their rivals, that changes it, but that and the oder of fixtures balances out over the years. Last year, in a similar situation, Ireland got the advantage of going last. This year it's England.

The beauty of the Six Nations is its not even-handed, it's not the same every year. Luck and circumstance play a huge part which adds to the drama.

No as I am having a rugby BBQ party to watch all 3 games.

So as it is all about me.. Then no

I'm not even sure if playing last is always an advantage.

Knowing what you need to do can either inhibit a side or make them play too loose. Sometimes it's better not knowing and just playing a natural game.

I think Ireland would have won the title in 2007 if they went last- they were first to play, and they conceded a late try because they chose to tap and go for one more score in the last minute but ended up being turned over. The difference in the end was less than a converted try so if they had known they could just kick for touch it would have been possibly very different. Certainly if they had an exact figure to target the dynamic in those last 10 minutes would have been completely different.

The other side of the coin is; the last game of the afternoon is almost never against Italy or Scotland. It's normally between two sides that they are guessing could feasibly both be a part of the title race. So usually the team that is playing earlier has a slightly easier fixture. Thats definitely true of Wales this year.

Cyril wrote:I'm not even sure if playing last is always an advantage.

Knowing what you need to do can either inhibit a side or make them play too loose. Sometimes it's better not knowing and just playing a natural game.

True. That's the dynamic. Each stage has its pressure and in a year like this the tension grows through all matches - and even neutrals get involved in the Chase.

Cyril wrote:I'm not even sure if playing last is always an advantage.

Knowing what you need to do can either inhibit a side or make them play too loose. Sometimes it's better not knowing and just playing a natural game.

Yes and no. Playing first, assuming you win, and can reach the existing PD target, then you get to set the target that the others have to chase. You know you just have to keep scoring but not by how much.

This goes for the second team too. Ireland v Italy a few seasons ago was a classic example of paying too much attention to attack and not enough to defence - playing too loose. They let in a last minute try, winning 51-24. And of course, France in the next match got a last minute try against Scotland to win the bloody thing by 4 points. They didn't have to keep scoring, they just needed to score enough.

Notch wrote:

The other side of the coin is; the last game of the afternoon is almost never against Italy or Scotland. It's normally between two sides that they are guessing could feasibly both be a part of the title race. So usually the team that is playing earlier has a slightly easier fixture. Thats definitely true of Wales this year.

That's probably true about Italy and Scotland in latter years of the 6N. Certainly not at the beginning though. 2000, 2002, 2005, 2013. Even then, the schedulers didn't always get it right on their pick for the Grand Finale teams.

Last matches first:

2000 - Eng v Scot - for Eng to win the GS. They lost.
2001 - Foot n Mouth year - Ire v Eng - bit of a dead match in that it didn't matter whether Eng won or lost, they had won the Championship on PD (+101 margin). But they did want the GS. Eng lost
2002 - Eng v Italy - France whacked Ireland on the Saturday to win the GS. England played Italy the following day in a very anti-climactic match. They won.
2003 - Eng v Irl. for the GS. They won in Dublin.
2004 - Eng v France. France won it for the GS.
2005 - Eng v Scotland. Wales had already won the GS by beating Ireland in the previous match. Eng won to come fourth.
2006 - Eng v Ireland. France had gone top of the table by narrowly beating Wales. But they had a healthy 34 point margin on Ireland. Ireland won the Triple Crown but only won by four points.
2007 - Wal v Eng. Wales were nowhere having lost all their matches. Ireland set the chase target in the first match by beating Italy. France needed to win by 24 points in the second match and did. Eng had to somehow win by 57 points. They lost.
2008 - Wal v Fra - Wales won to take the GS.
2009 - Wal v Irl - another classic finale. Ireland needed to win to get the GS. If Wales won by more than 13, they'd take the Championship. They lost.
2010 - Fra v Eng - Fra needed to win for the GS. Their only championship contender, Ireland, had lost to Scotland in the previous match. Eng were already out of it. France won.
2011 - Fra v Wales. Eng had lost out on their GS losing to Ireland in previous match. Wales needed to win by 27 points to take the title. They lost 28-9.
2012 - Eng v Ireland - Wales had already won the GS in the previous match against Fra. Eng won
2013 - Fra v Scot - not a good choice. The team that came last in the Championship played last. And won. the celebrations had already kicked off after the previous match with Wales taking the title.
2014 - Fra v Irl - another good pick. Ireland needed to win with England having already failied to hit the chase target in the first match against Italy. Ireland won.
2015 - Eng v Fra - a good pick. One of Wales or Ireland should be sitting top of the table, having set a chase target for England. France likely to be also rans, unless Wales and Ireland lose - in which case, standby for a cracker.

You can't play the games at the same time.

How else am I supposed to justify staying in the pub all afternoon?

I have 2 children now. I just don't get that sort of personal time outside a 6N window.

George Carlin wrote:You can't play the games at the same time.

How else am I supposed to justify staying in the pub all afternoon?

I have 2 children now. I just don't get that sort of personal time outside a 6N window.

+1.

I should also add that since Scotland will NEVER again compete for the title, it's all rather academic from my perspective as to whether we get beaten in tandem with the other fixtures or in our own separate fixture slot. In fact what I would propose is that Scotland always go third on the final day. That way I'll have had enough to drink to just about forget the game the next day.

Today has given us the answer to this now.

Leave well alone

I think three games occurring at once would be unworkable. There's not enough space for 15 on 15 as is stands. Plus the refs are already clueless. Imagine three running around the same field.

no way, i want to watch all 3 games

Imagine trying to keep up with today's rugby if it were happening simultaneously!

NO.

If you look at this tournament today. you have had 3 fantastic games. All nail biting finishers.

Why should Warren Gatland be the one to call the shots on how the tournament is run?

Just because Wales was in with a chance, it should not matter it should stay as it is.

What has Gatland said Madge?

I would personally like the format to be 3 simultaneous games every 6 nations weekend. No Friday or Sundays.

Risca Rev wrote:What has Gatland said Madge?

He said that all 3 games should kick off at the same time. To stop the other team from knowing what the score of the first game is and giving the other teams an advantage of knowing how many points they will need to win the championship.

That is what he said Risca Rev.

I'll have to take your word for it, I guess Madge. I can't find him saying that. Any links?

I think Rob Howley said something about it before the game, but not really how you have posted.

It should be simultaneous but that means about 5 hours less TV coverage and will mean less money for the unions. So for practical reasons its probably best to remain the way it is.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:What has Gatland said Madge?

He said that all 3 games should kick off at the same time. To stop the other team from knowing what the score of the first game is and giving the other teams an advantage of knowing how many points they will need to win the championship.

That is what he said Risca Rev.

1) no he didn't
2) learn to spell ffs

No.

No.

No.

I was a bit sceptical about today - but what a day!

I'm so proud of Wales and never expected us to perform that way and set such a target. Brilliant.

Ireland were fantastic and worthy winners. Changed their game and delivered.

England - what a performance and were perhaps a little unlucky. France played their part in one of the best games I've seen.

So I can live with 3rd and regret a poor second half in the first game. Congrats to Ireland and England and roll on the WC.

Rugby was the real winner today.

NO.

That was Sport on a Shuttle Booster rocket.

Real men, giving their heart and bodies to entertain to a degree that I can't find in any other sport. Real gladiator stuff and we got to see all three games - no channel hoping to keep an eye on other results just a classic One Two Three punch of the most heady stuff I've seen in years.

The Best Day the Six Nations ever delivered. Remember.

Dreadful on the heart though

No.

SecretFly wrote:Dreadful on the heart though

Lol. Commented to a friend during the game that if we didn't manage to get the necessary points we were getting our revenge in advance by the emotional wringer we were putting the Irish through. It was a fantastic day of Rugby and I hope kills any argument that all the games should kick off at the same time.

Cowshot wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Dreadful on the heart though

Lol. Commented to a friend during the game that if we didn't manage to get the necessary points we were getting our revenge in advance by the emotional wringer we were putting the Irish through. It was a fantastic day of Rugby and I hope kills any argument that all the games should kick off at the same time.

Hope that day also kills the argument for introducing bonus points into the 6N.

Yes, the 'bonus point' incentive is already inherent in the very contest itself.  Don't blame sides for holding off on their 'bonus' collection until later in the series of games.  This is rugby Union not League.

If people want more League or indeed 7s, then those games are out there to be enjoyed.  The Six Nations is Rugby Union - brains, brawn, chessboard, basketball, boxing, wrestling and sprinting.