We Go Again! The 2014/15 Premier League Thread

[Crimey]

First topic message reminder :

Who would have thought that Liverpool's strength would be the defence after the start to the season!

[Crimey]

Why is having to learn a new language or culture a bad or inconvenient thing?

Because it makes your life a lot more difficult. Most people would definitely say that moving countries, learning a new language and adapting to a new culture are huge things to take into account when deciding on where to work.

[super_realist]

Why is having to learn a new language or culture a bad or inconvenient thing?

It's quite clearly inconvenient initially, I move to Hull; people speak English whereas I move to Inter and they do not speak English, not really rocket science that one.

I'd find that a rather interesting challenge, ok Milan is about as much as a dump as Hull is, but in general a better climate, nicer country etc are more of a draw than the grim east coast of England, but then again, British players are complacent and lack ambition and imagination so it's not surprising.

[Stella]

Why is having to learn a new language or culture a bad or inconvenient thing?

It's quite clearly inconvenient initially, I move to Hull; people speak English whereas I move to Inter and they do not speak English, not really rocket science that one.

He's young enough to learn a new culture, and language. What an experience it would have been. I'm with SR on this one, which I'm not 100% comfortable with!!!

[Hammersmith harrier]

Why is having to learn a new language or culture a bad or inconvenient thing?

Because it makes your life a lot more difficult. Most people would definitely say that moving countries, learning a new language and adapting to a new culture are huge things to take into account when deciding on where to work.

I'm also fairly sure his father would have factored in that Italy has a slight racism issue in football.

[Crimey]

He's also got family, friends, maybe a girlfriend to think about. Moving country isn't easy and just because he's a footballer shouldn't change those circumstances. If we were talking about an accountant or a secretary there'd be no question of it being reasonable to not want to make those kinds of sacrifices.

[super_realist]

Why is having to learn a new language or culture a bad or inconvenient thing?

Because it makes your life a lot more difficult. Most people would definitely say that moving countries, learning a new language and adapting to a new culture are huge things to take into account when deciding on where to work.

I'm also fairly sure his father would have factored in that Italy has a slight racism issue in football.

Yeah, because all the other black players in Italy would rather play in Hull because of that too. Copout.

[Hammersmith harrier]

How many of the black players in Italy have fathers who were subjected to racial abuse when they played?

[super_realist]

Who cares, that was years ago. Was Ian Wright racially abused in England the same time Ince was in Italy? Course he was, did SWP not play in Britain because his "dad" was abused here?

[Ent]

Because you being comfortable with earning even 5k a week is different to someone earning 35k a week.

More players than most will be playing for the chequebook rather than achievments and rewards. They can come later if your going to be a big player which very few will become.

The likes of a one club player is also extremely rare.

It would have been nice to see Ince go and try to learn a different style of play at Inter but if they're offering 5 - 10K less then I can see why Ince didn't go.

So do you think a player should join, lets say Spurs over Barcelona/Real Madrid if spurs offer 10k more a week?

Except there is actually a much bigger gap between Tottenham and Barcelona/Real Madrid then there is between Hull and Inter Milan. The last few years Inter Milan have not exactly challenged for anything. 

At least moving to Hull means not having to learn a new language or adapt to a new culture, or also deal with the constant switching of managers that happens in Italy.

Purely a money question.

[super_realist]

He's also got family, friends, maybe a girlfriend to think about. Moving country isn't easy and just because he's a footballer shouldn't change those circumstances. If we were talking about an accountant or a secretary there'd be no question of it being reasonable to not want to make those kinds of sacrifices.

If that were true, no players would move anywhere ever. It isn't a valid reason for the pitiful number of British players who play, or have attempted to play abroad.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Who cares, that was years ago. Was Ian Wright racially abused in England the same time Ince was in Italy? Course he was, did SWP not play in Britain because his "dad" was abused here?

Not very bright are you.

England currently does not suffer from an endemic issue with racism but Italy does and has had an issue for many many years.

[Ent]

I'm on the fence with this debate. On the one hand, I actually initially praised Ince for going to Hull over Inter. For me, Inter play in front of a half empty stadium and rarely challenge for the league. He would have more chance of playing at Hull and for a youngster to improve, game time must surely be the priority?

Think they still have the highest attendances in Italy, playing in the san siro in front of 40k a week, be involved with one of the biggest derbies in world football etc vs relegation battle with Hull.

[super_realist]

Who cares, that was years ago. Was Ian Wright racially abused in England the same time Ince was in Italy? Course he was, did SWP not play in Britain because his "dad" was abused here?

Not very bright are you.

England currently does not suffer from an endemic issue with racism but Italy does and has had an issue for many many years.

Yet, there's tons of black players in Italy who either don't agree, don't feel it is to their detriment, or who ignore it.

[Liam]

I'm on the fence with this debate. On the one hand, I actually initially praised Ince for going to Hull over Inter. For me, Inter play in front of a half empty stadium and rarely challenge for the league. He would have more chance of playing at Hull and for a youngster to improve, game time must surely be the priority?

Think they still have the highest attendances in Italy, playing in the san siro in front of 40k a week, be involved with one of the biggest derbies in world football etc vs relegation battle with Hull.

May be 40k but there's another 40k empty seats! Instead, Hull probably get close to selling out most games and as such, the atmosphere is better. The Milan derby is only big in name and history these days. Both poor sides.

[Crimey]

He's also got family, friends, maybe a girlfriend to think about. Moving country isn't easy and just because he's a footballer shouldn't change those circumstances. If we were talking about an accountant or a secretary there'd be no question of it being reasonable to not want to make those kinds of sacrifices.

If that were true, no players would move anywhere ever. It isn't a valid reason for the pitiful number of British players who play, or have attempted to play abroad.

Not true at all, I said it's something to take into account, but you can take it into account and still decide to move abroad. 

I don't think that's the main reason British players don't play abroad, but when looking at individual cases it has to be considered. Don't be so short-sighted to think that footballers should be held to different standards in their career choices than any other profession.

[Ent]

I'm on the fence with this debate. On the one hand, I actually initially praised Ince for going to Hull over Inter. For me, Inter play in front of a half empty stadium and rarely challenge for the league. He would have more chance of playing at Hull and for a youngster to improve, game time must surely be the priority?

Think they still have the highest attendances in Italy, playing in the san siro in front of 40k a week, be involved with one of the biggest derbies in world football etc vs relegation battle with Hull.

May be 40k but there's another 40k empty seats! Instead, Hull probably get close to selling out most games and as such, the atmosphere is better. The Milan derby is only big in name and history these days. Both poor sides.

All derbies are historical and wax and wane in quality over time. Playing in front of 40k would still be good, regardless of empty seats - think 80k turned up for the derby.

Just depends what you want to take from your career. Lets take Colin Kazim Richards - could have stayed in the lower PL or championship and probably earned a bit more money but went to Greece and Turkey, won some trophies, played and scored in the CL, played in some big derbies - still a millionaire. At this rate what will Ince look back at fondly? That time he could have joined anyone but ended up playing in the championship on loan and a big bank balance?

[super_realist]

He's also got family, friends, maybe a girlfriend to think about. Moving country isn't easy and just because he's a footballer shouldn't change those circumstances. If we were talking about an accountant or a secretary there'd be no question of it being reasonable to not want to make those kinds of sacrifices.

If that were true, no players would move anywhere ever. It isn't a valid reason for the pitiful number of British players who play, or have attempted to play abroad.

Not true at all, I said it's something to take into account, but you can take it into account and still decide to move abroad. 

I don't think that's the main reason British players don't play abroad, but when looking at individual cases it has to be considered. Don't be so short-sighted to think that footballers should be held to different standards in their career choices than any other profession.

I thought you were using it as justification for him not going, of course it's a consideration, but it's the same for foreign players coming to Britain, and it doesn't seem to bother them.

It does raise a question though, why do so few British players move abroad?

[Liam]

I'm on the fence with this debate. On the one hand, I actually initially praised Ince for going to Hull over Inter. For me, Inter play in front of a half empty stadium and rarely challenge for the league. He would have more chance of playing at Hull and for a youngster to improve, game time must surely be the priority?

Think they still have the highest attendances in Italy, playing in the san siro in front of 40k a week, be involved with one of the biggest derbies in world football etc vs relegation battle with Hull.

May be 40k but there's another 40k empty seats! Instead, Hull probably get close to selling out most games and as such, the atmosphere is better. The Milan derby is only big in name and history these days. Both poor sides.

All derbies are historical and wax and wane in quality over time. Playing in front of 40k would still be good, regardless of empty seats - think 80k turned up for the derby.

Just depends what you want to take from your career. Lets take Colin Kazim Richards - could have stayed in the lower PL or championship and probably earned a bit more money but went to Greece and Turkey, won some trophies, played and scored in the CL, played in some big derbies - still a millionaire. At this rate what will Ince look back at fondly? That time he could have joined anyone but ended up playing in the championship on loan and a big bank balance?

If i'm honest, I do have more respect for players who decide to go earn their trade abroad. Micah Richards is doing that and I believe he's doing quite well at fiorentina.

[super_realist]

I'm on the fence with this debate. On the one hand, I actually initially praised Ince for going to Hull over Inter. For me, Inter play in front of a half empty stadium and rarely challenge for the league. He would have more chance of playing at Hull and for a youngster to improve, game time must surely be the priority?

Think they still have the highest attendances in Italy, playing in the san siro in front of 40k a week, be involved with one of the biggest derbies in world football etc vs relegation battle with Hull.

May be 40k but there's another 40k empty seats! Instead, Hull probably get close to selling out most games and as such, the atmosphere is better. The Milan derby is only big in name and history these days. Both poor sides.

All derbies are historical and wax and wane in quality over time. Playing in front of 40k would still be good, regardless of empty seats - think 80k turned up for the derby.

Just depends what you want to take from your career. Lets take Colin Kazim Richards - could have stayed in the lower PL or championship and probably earned a bit more money but went to Greece and Turkey, won some trophies, played and scored in the CL, played in some big derbies - still a millionaire. At this rate what will Ince look back at fondly? That time he could have joined anyone but ended up playing in the championship on loan and a big bank balance?

Exactly, Robbie Keane was in Ince's precise situation. Did it, didn't work out, still managed a good career and was no worse off for his year at Inter, still minted, still played for some good clubs after.

[Liam]

Even if it doesn't work out, you'll pick up some different methods of coaching, or adapt your game and take it with you back home which may in fact give you an advantage in a different league. The Robbie Keane example is a very good one tbf.

[Crimey]

I'm on the fence with this debate. On the one hand, I actually initially praised Ince for going to Hull over Inter. For me, Inter play in front of a half empty stadium and rarely challenge for the league. He would have more chance of playing at Hull and for a youngster to improve, game time must surely be the priority?

Think they still have the highest attendances in Italy, playing in the san siro in front of 40k a week, be involved with one of the biggest derbies in world football etc vs relegation battle with Hull.

May be 40k but there's another 40k empty seats! Instead, Hull probably get close to selling out most games and as such, the atmosphere is better. The Milan derby is only big in name and history these days. Both poor sides.

All derbies are historical and wax and wane in quality over time. Playing in front of 40k would still be good, regardless of empty seats - think 80k turned up for the derby.

Just depends what you want to take from your career. Lets take Colin Kazim Richards - could have stayed in the lower PL or championship and probably earned a bit more money but went to Greece and Turkey, won some trophies, played and scored in the CL, played in some big derbies - still a millionaire. At this rate what will Ince look back at fondly? That time he could have joined anyone but ended up playing in the championship on loan and a big bank balance?

If i'm honest, I do have more respect for players who decide to go earn their trade abroad. Micah Richards is doing that and I believe he's doing quite well at fiorentina.

He's not really, he doesn't play very often. He'll most likely be back in England if any team shows an interest.

[Hammersmith harrier]

There's no fixed variable with Robbie Keane so we have no way of knowing if it affected his overall career or not.

[Ent]

Given he had 10 years in the Pl scoring 100 goals after the Inter move I think we can say it didn't effect him too badly.

Also scored 57 international goals after that stint in Italy.

Unless he would have turned into Henry without that move I think we can safely say it didn't effect him.

[Hammersmith harrier]

We can't safely say anything of the sort and judging by his early you can say he didn't fulfil his early promise, he had a decent career but could it have been better we do not know.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

[Hammersmith harrier]

Skrtel set for a three match ban.

[Ent]

We can't safely say anything of the sort and judging by his early you can say he didn't fulfil his early promise, he had a decent career but could it have been better we do not know.

What early?

He had 1 season in the PL before he went to inter, and he was only there for 6 months!

Joint 12th top scorer in PL history!

Given it is a discussion on probability, there is obviously no certainly but we can discuss the likelihood of things. It is a bit of a cop out to suggest otherwise.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Robbie Keane did very well to eke every last drop of skill out of his very limited talent

[Derbymanc]

Because you being comfortable with earning even 5k a week is different to someone earning 35k a week.

More players than most will be playing for the chequebook rather than achievments and rewards. They can come later if your going to be a big player which very few will become.

The likes of a one club player is also extremely rare.

It would have been nice to see Ince go and try to learn a different style of play at Inter but if they're offering 5 - 10K less then I can see why Ince didn't go.

So do you think a player should join, lets say Spurs over Barcelona/Real Madrid if spurs offer 10k more a week?

Should or would?

2 completely different things.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It really depends, doesnt it. Its kind of like saying "Villa or Celtic?" You'll win stuff, play Champions League football etc at Celtic but you have to play in the SPL

[Stella]

Robbie Keane did very well to eke every last drop of skill out of his very limited talent

Keane was a very talented footballer.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Robbie Keane did very well to eke every last drop of skill out of his very limited talent

Keane was a very talented footballer.

I don't think he was. He just worked hard and had pace. He had a good spell at Spurs but wasnt too amazing anywhere else

[mystiroakey]

Because you being comfortable with earning even 5k a week is different to someone earning 35k a week.

More players than most will be playing for the chequebook rather than achievments and rewards. They can come later if your going to be a big player which very few will become.

The likes of a one club player is also extremely rare.

It would have been nice to see Ince go and try to learn a different style of play at Inter but if they're offering 5 - 10K less then I can see why Ince didn't go.

So do you think a player should join, lets say Spurs over Barcelona/Real Madrid if spurs offer 10k more a week?

Should or would?

2 completely different things.

If they get game time at spuds they should play there. If there are bench warming at barca they shouldn't go there. 10k won't make any difference to the player. The player may believe he will get game time at real or Barca but the reality might be very different.. He is garranted the team will play in the CL but he may not be.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

10k will make a difference to a player. They have weird egos.

[Stella]

Robbie Keane did very well to eke every last drop of skill out of his very limited talent

Keane was a very talented footballer.

I don't think he was. He just worked hard and had pace. He had a good spell at Spurs but wasnt too amazing anywhere else

Scored some fantastic goals. I'd say he had lots of talent.

[mystiroakey]

10k will make a difference to a player. They have weird egos.

What is 10k today when comparing sterling to a seriously dodgy fluctuating euro. The amount will change by the day plus tax in Spain high end is more

Anyway the simple fact is game time.

Raheem may have the option very soon. He needs to stick.

[Derbymanc]

Depends on the age of the player and where he's at with his career. Ince was an up and coming potential star, 5 - 10K is a massive difference at a point where you've not even found your level yet.
It would have been nice to see him show the ambition and go to Italy even for a short while, but ultimately he's looked after himself in the long run.

Should he have gone to Italy - IMO yes
Would he have gone with that much of a drop in wages - deffo NO

[mystiroakey]

That drop in wages would have been even more apparent today due to the change in sterling to euro. It would be very tough for any player from the EPL to get more wages at the moment at any club due to this by moving back to continental Europe. Unless you go to monaco that is.

[Ent]

Robbie Keane did very well to eke every last drop of skill out of his very limited talent

Keane was a very talented footballer.

I don't think he was. He just worked hard and had pace. He had a good spell at Spurs but wasnt too amazing anywhere else

Scored some fantastic goals. I'd say he had lots of talent.

He has 65 goals for ireland - ireland!! At a (slightly) better rate than Rooney at international level.

Did work hard but he has plenty of ability/talent.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

David Healy had a hell of an international record, I don't think he was that good either

[Dolphin Ziggler]

10k will make a difference to a player. They have weird egos.

What is 10k today when comparing sterling to a seriously dodgy fluctuating euro. The amount will change by the day plus tax in Spain high end is more

Anyway the simple fact is game time.

Raheem may have the option very soon. He needs to stick.

Its not the actual money, its the ego and comparison. "Why is A.N Other on 80k and I'm on 70k?" etc. Parity with top earners is never about getting the most money for yourself, its being valued highly

[Ent]

David Healy had a hell of an international record, I don't think he was that good either

Aye he does, keane has nearly twice as many goals and over 100 pl goals to boot.

You don't manage that without good ability.

[Ent]

10k will make a difference to a player. They have weird egos.

What is 10k today when comparing sterling to a seriously dodgy fluctuating euro. The amount will change by the day plus tax in Spain high end is more

Anyway the simple fact is game time.

Raheem may have the option very soon. He needs to stick.

Its not the actual money, its the ego and comparison. "Why is A.N Other on 80k and I'm on 70k?" etc. Parity with top earners is never about getting the most money for yourself, its being valued highly

Yes but the original point was should you turn down one of the top clubs in the world because another club is offering 10k more a week, as everyone seems to be pointing out how important money is.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Well, its a factor, undoubtedly. You'd be daft to think not. I'm sure its also contract length, signing on fee, tax etc. Appearance money too.

[GSC]

10k a week is roughly half a million a year before tax. No small sum of money

[Dolphin Ziggler]

David Healy had a hell of an international record, I don't think he was that good either

Aye he does, keane has nearly twice as many goals and over 100 pl goals to boot.

You don't manage that without good ability.

I'm not saying he was Poopie, I just don't think he was that good. He flopped at a few places and I don't think he was as good as Defoe or Kanoute for example

[GSC]

I'll be honest. Defoe for me is one of the most overrated players in PL history

[Stella]

David Healy had a hell of an international record, I don't think he was that good either

Aye he does, keane has nearly twice as many goals and over 100 pl goals to boot.

You don't manage that without good ability.

I'm not saying he was Poopie, I just don't think he was that good. He flopped at a few places and I don't think he was as good as Defoe or Kanoute for example

Still had plenty of talent. Scored goals which most other players couldn't have.

[Azzy]

How has Mason justified inclusion in an England squad? We've gone from not being able to accommodate one of Scholes, Lampard or Gerrard to not having a single CM good enough for even Champions League football.

[GSC]

My only hope is hes there just to put out the training cones and hand out the bibs

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