Miami Masters 1000 Thread.

[temporary21]

First topic message reminder :

Cue the 80's music! Roll up roll up for all things Miami!

[It Must Be Love]

Nice to see Rafa lose??.  

I think there's a big difference between not liking a player at a low level, and then disliking/hating them to intense levels.
The former one is simply not wanting a player to win, when you do watch him you support the opponent (normally the underdog); while the second one is when you literally watch to 'root' against a player- i.e. follow them with fervour to see them lose- for example I think Summerblues watched most of matches Nadal played in Rio and Buenos Aires. I doubt it was because the match-ups were exciting !

Also the reasons people have for the latter more intense attitude (remember, I've already made a distinction between simply not liking him and this), is generally because they are angry at Nadal beating Federer in many important matches. Eventually their anger turns to rage, which in turn becomes deep intense hatred in the long term. I agree with Haddie it's a bit sad to see, but everyone is entitled to their own views on any tennis player.

[HM Murdock]

does decline happen this quickly? He won the French Open and Madrid less than a year ago

It can do.

But decline doesn't mean he'll never win again. It just means his best is now passed.

He's a good enough player that I think he'll be in the mix a while longer.

But I think the guy who rampaged through the clay seasons of 08 and 10 is certainly gone.

[Belovedluckyboy]

It seems to me there are more Fed fans here so can you imagine how often I've to bear with those excuses and boasting? As for Rafa being injured etc, sorry, I don't see that many posting here about that, as there are not that many Rafa fans here.

Rafa is fit and healthy, it's only Fed fans here who keep mentioning about Rafa's injuries! Rafa didn't even talk about injury here when he lost, yet people here started mentioning injury, illness etc. Rafa lacks confidence and that's what he himself said, and it's not hard to understand having not played that many matches since Wimbledon last year. He needs time and match plays to get back on track, he usually does after layoffs, like in 2009/2010 where he went ten months without winning anything and he was five years younger back then. His 2013 comeback was on clay, and he too needed time to win on clay and that was two years ago. So, he may take longer this time, as he's older, coming back on HC instead of clay, suffers some losses so confidence may be dented further. Still, he's not playing badly as he certainly has improved from his first few matches of 2015, and there's no reason to think he won't be winning come the clay season. He may not dominate on clay like before, in fact he didn't in 2014, but he may be good enough to win the important ones.

I don't think he will do well on non clay surfaces going forward. I think he may concentrate on clay from now on till his retirement.

[Jahu]

IMBL, stop playing the shrink, that thread was last week.

[Jahu]

Beloved, agree, same as Fed, and with Nadal together, they should become the King's of 250/500 tournaments.

[Belovedluckyboy]

yeah, better be lucky and beloved than to talk rubbish. I'll skip your posts in future, Jahu. Don't stop others from talking serious if they're capable of doing so, unlike hmm....

[bogbrush]

Rafa's form either side of the clay court season is becoming a recurring, annual theme.
  It's a real chicken-and-egg situation. Does he regularly do poorly outside the clay court season cos he's knackered from all his clay-court success ?
  Or does he simply HAVE to do well during the clay court swing in order not to go crashing down the rankings?
   As it is, I fully expect him to have his usual excellent performances on clay and to win the French again. As for the rest of the season - who knows?

I don't. Haven't done for a while.

He's actually been declining for some time, it's just that the slope is steepening. I mean, Verdasco? FFS the guy is well into his own decline!

I expect him to run into somebody at a critical moment on clay this year and give everyone a big shock. It might be the French, it might even be well before the final. It all depends on whether he can avoid someone with hunger and power and keep playing the tired old hacks he's got beaten before he gets onto the court. Then again, Verdasco is one of them so who knows.

[It Must Be Love]

BelovedLuckyBoy, check your inbox

[Jahu]

yeah, better be lucky and beloved than to talk rubbish.  I'll skip your posts in future, Jahu.  Don't stop others from talking serious if they're capable of doing so, unlike hmm....

Don't get all sexy on me now, just cause you are lover boy, it's only tennis.

[sirfredperry]

B'Brush and others. I agree that Rafa is less of a favourite for the French than in previous years. Yet it could all come down to confidence. The man himself is saying that he is lacking in that department at the moment. But you rarely see him playing with anything but ENORMOUS confidence at RG.

[Jahu]

Sir, that'a why this no confidece blla blla from him, is just dishonest.

[Belovedluckyboy]

SFPerry,

IMO, Rafa had missed the boat. He may never win big on HC and grass again going forward. He won big titles on HCS and grass in 2008, early 2009 and then 2010 and 2013. During those years, he was also winning and dominating on clay, and still could win at Wimbledon and/or AO/USO. While he may not be as dominating as Fed was during 2004-2007, his 2008/2010 and 2013 weren't that bad either. He had one less dominating season than Fed's, Fed's 2006 was almost unmatchable by both Rafa or Novak, but Rafa's 2008/2010 and 2013 were comparable to Fed's 2004-2005 and 2007, with one less slam won. (Ie 7 vs 8 by Fed).

During those years, Rafa was able to dominate on at least two surfaces, either clay and grass, or clay and HCs, just like Fed dominating on two surfaces, grass and HCs.. Like Fed after turning 28, Rafa may not be winning that many big titles any more. Fed won two more slams after turning 28, Rafa may also do the same, given how strong he was on clay. We, or people in general, may be expecting too much from Rafa, as if he can't decline, now that he's 28 almost 29, when in the past, people were already talking about Fed being in the decline starting from 2009 when Fed was 28.

Novak peak later at age 23, so his decline may start a bit later too, perhaps 29-30?

[Haddie-nuff]

Even less reason to be sad for me.  

If not me somebody should.

But why?

Quite.

I want Nadal to lose, and for once don't have to put up with the stupid stuff about it being to prevent him playing Federer. I want him to lose because I hate his way of playing the game; the time delays; the massive bounce driving players away from the Court (he can do it if he wants, I just don't have to think it's worth watching); the sideline coaching and other gamesmanship; the repetitive style of play. That's why I want him to lose and I probably always will.
Others will probably always want him to win. Many of those same people probably generally want Federer to lose.

I don't feel sad for them.

The vulture has arrived... only to be seen when Federer is winning or Rafa is losing. Nothing changes

[CAS]

are we sure Verdasco just hasn't improved? Like when Albert Montanes, Davydenko, beat Federer in 2010? as we have been enlighten Federer didn't actually decline everyone else just got better.

In all seriousness, Rafa looked great against Simon last week I thought, had he squeezed past Raonic he may have gone in against his old foe with confidence and reached the final and would be looking like a different player right now.

[CaledonianCraig]

Even less reason to be sad for me.  

If not me somebody should.

But why?

Quite.

I want Nadal to lose, and for once don't have to put up with the stupid stuff about it being to prevent him playing Federer. I want him to lose because I hate his way of playing the game; the time delays; the massive bounce driving players away from the Court (he can do it if he wants, I just don't have to think it's worth watching); the sideline coaching and other gamesmanship; the repetitive style of play. That's why I want him to lose and I probably always will.
Others will probably always want him to win. Many of those same people probably generally want Federer to lose.

I don't feel sad for them.

Fair enough, however, why post them on a forum with a myriad of tennis fans of all players here. Why not try posting subjectively and point out reasons or thoughts on why said player lost or opponent won and leave the smug satisfaction in the living rooms. Nothing wrong with that. Those on here creaming themselves is akin to chucking a lighted match onto paraffin and sitting gleefully waiting for the flames.

[Jahu]

But we have a go on Andy, Djoko, others on Fed etc and no one is more se sensitive then Nadal fans.

[Haddie-nuff]

Fair enough, however, why post them on a forum with a myriad of tennis fans of all players here. Why not try posting subjectively and point out reasons or thoughts on why said player lost or opponent won and leave the smug satisfaction in the living rooms. Nothing wrong with that. Those on here creaming themselves is akin to chucking a lighted match onto paraffin and sitting gleefully waiting for the flames.

But there is no fun to be had in that CC you cant be a WUM in your own living room

[Born Slippy]

But we have a go on Andy, Djoko, others on Fed etc and no one is more se sensitive then Nadal fans.

Just not true. I am not a Rafa fan (far from it - my views on his tennis are basically the same as BB's). However, the Nadal fans on here tend to be reasonable and take a bit of good-natured banter. Its the Fed fans who are ultra-sensitive. The response to Socal's joke thread demonstrates that very clearly.

[Jahu]

Well I only speak for my self, any quality banter is welcome, little cute Wums too.

Why people take it seriously, is beyond any logic.

[Born Slippy]

are we sure Verdasco just hasn't improved? Like when Albert Montanes, Davydenko, beat Federer in 2010? as we have been enlighten Federer didn't actually decline everyone else just got better.

In all seriousness, Rafa looked great against Simon last week I thought, had he squeezed past Raonic he may have gone in against his old foe with confidence and reached the final and would be looking like a different player right now.

Davydenko in 09-10 played tennis which was far improved from a few years earlier. His collapse when he was crushing Fed at Oz 10 was agony to watch, as he was in my view clearly the best player in the world at that point.

Verdasco played for the most part yesterday like his 09-10 peak. His forehand was drawing gasps from the crowd and he wasn't missing. His backhand was also far more damaging than I can recall seeing in a long time. The level he was at would have given most versions of Rafa trouble.

The demons that have mentally plagued him though were still there and it was Rafa's own current mental fraility which stopped him taking advantage. I didnt notice any physical decline in Rafa. He moved extraordinarily well and I thought he looked good up until he missed that easy forehand to break in the first set. It was the big points where he let himself down. It looked to me as though he just needs a big win. The game is not far off.

[Born Slippy]

Well I only speak for my self, any quality banter is welcome, little cute Wums too.

Why people take it seriously, is beyond any logic.

Agreed - I miss HE :-(

[bogbrush]

Even less reason to be sad for me.  

If not me somebody should.

But why?

Quite.

I want Nadal to lose, and for once don't have to put up with the stupid stuff about it being to prevent him playing Federer. I want him to lose because I hate his way of playing the game; the time delays; the massive bounce driving players away from the Court (he can do it if he wants, I just don't have to think it's worth watching); the sideline coaching and other gamesmanship; the repetitive style of play. That's why I want him to lose and I probably always will.
Others will probably always want him to win. Many of those same people probably generally want Federer to lose.

I don't feel sad for them.

Fair enough, however, why post them on a forum with a myriad of tennis fans of all players here. Why not try posting subjectively and point out reasons or thoughts on why said player lost or opponent won and leave the smug satisfaction in the living rooms. Nothing wrong with that.  Those on here creaming themselves is akin to chucking a lighted match onto paraffin and sitting gleefully waiting for the flames.  

We are posting subjectively. That's what posting opinions means.

As for talking to yourself in a living room... You can get pills for that.

[bogbrush]

Even less reason to be sad for me.  

If not me somebody should.

But why?

Quite.

I want Nadal to lose, and for once don't have to put up with the stupid stuff about it being to prevent him playing Federer. I want him to lose because I hate his way of playing the game; the time delays; the massive bounce driving players away from the Court (he can do it if he wants, I just don't have to think it's worth watching); the sideline coaching and other gamesmanship; the repetitive style of play. That's why I want him to lose and I probably always will.
Others will probably always want him to win. Many of those same people probably generally want Federer to lose.

I don't feel sad for them.

The vulture has arrived... only to be seen when Federer is winning or Rafa is losing. Nothing changes

Odd statement given I've not been on here much in the last year.

[CaledonianCraig]

Even less reason to be sad for me.  

If not me somebody should.

But why?

Quite.

I want Nadal to lose, and for once don't have to put up with the stupid stuff about it being to prevent him playing Federer. I want him to lose because I hate his way of playing the game; the time delays; the massive bounce driving players away from the Court (he can do it if he wants, I just don't have to think it's worth watching); the sideline coaching and other gamesmanship; the repetitive style of play. That's why I want him to lose and I probably always will.
Others will probably always want him to win. Many of those same people probably generally want Federer to lose.

I don't feel sad for them.

Fair enough, however, why post them on a forum with a myriad of tennis fans of all players here. Why not try posting subjectively and point out reasons or thoughts on why said player lost or opponent won and leave the smug satisfaction in the living rooms. Nothing wrong with that.  Those on here creaming themselves is akin to chucking a lighted match onto paraffin and sitting gleefully waiting for the flames.  

We are posting subjectively. That's what posting opinions means.

As for talking to yourself in a living room...    You can get pills for that.

Pity there aren't pills devised yet for WUM's. Pills that give off an allergic reaction to keyboards and smartphones giving them a dose of the runs.

[Haddie-nuff]

Even less reason to be sad for me.  

If not me somebody should.

But why?

Quite.

I want Nadal to lose, and for once don't have to put up with the stupid stuff about it being to prevent him playing Federer. I want him to lose because I hate his way of playing the game; the time delays; the massive bounce driving players away from the Court (he can do it if he wants, I just don't have to think it's worth watching); the sideline coaching and other gamesmanship; the repetitive style of play. That's why I want him to lose and I probably always will.
Others will probably always want him to win. Many of those same people probably generally want Federer to lose.

I don't feel sad for them.

The vulture has arrived... only to be seen when Federer is winning or Rafa is losing. Nothing changes

Odd statement given I've not been on here much in the last year.

Exactly...!!!

[Belovedluckyboy]

IMBL, thanks for your message.

[slashermcguirk]

To be fair to Nadal, Verdasco was absolutely pummeling his forehand! When verdasco comes to the party like that, he is so dangerous. Although Nadal was making a lot more errors than usual you have to remember how fast the ball was coming at him.

A lot of the top 10 players would have struggled to cope with Verdasco yesterday, he was in the zone and swinging free. It reminded me of how he played against Murray at Wimbledon in the first 2 sets. When he is playing that well, he takes a lot of time away for you and I think that was the problem for Nadal. He simply wasn't able to get any rhythm.

If Nadal had lost to a nobody hitting those errors, time to be worried but he was up against an inspired player who is always capable of the sublime. The difference this time is that he kept it up in the deciding set.

Nadal will be back come the French Open, mark my words !

[Haddie-nuff]

To be fair to Nadal, Verdasco was absolutely pummeling his forehand! When verdasco comes to the party like that, he is so dangerous. Although Nadal was making a lot more errors than usual you have to remember how fast the ball was coming at him.

A lot of the top 10 players would have struggled to cope with Verdasco yesterday, he was in the zone and swinging free. It reminded me of how he played against Murray at Wimbledon in the first 2 sets. When he is playing that well, he takes a lot of time away for you and I think that was the problem for Nadal. He simply wasn't able to get any rhythm.

If Nadal had lost to a nobody hitting those errors, time to be worried but he was up against an inspired player who is always capable of the sublime. The difference this time is that he kept it up in the deciding set.

Nadal will be back come the French Open, mark my words !

To me yes,    but those words will not be of comfort to some Slasher   !!

[bogbrush]

Even less reason to be sad for me.  

If not me somebody should.

But why?

Quite.

I want Nadal to lose, and for once don't have to put up with the stupid stuff about it being to prevent him playing Federer. I want him to lose because I hate his way of playing the game; the time delays; the massive bounce driving players away from the Court (he can do it if he wants, I just don't have to think it's worth watching); the sideline coaching and other gamesmanship; the repetitive style of play. That's why I want him to lose and I probably always will.
Others will probably always want him to win. Many of those same people probably generally want Federer to lose.

I don't feel sad for them.

Fair enough, however, why post them on a forum with a myriad of tennis fans of all players here. Why not try posting subjectively and point out reasons or thoughts on why said player lost or opponent won and leave the smug satisfaction in the living rooms. Nothing wrong with that.  Those on here creaming themselves is akin to chucking a lighted match onto paraffin and sitting gleefully waiting for the flames.  

We are posting subjectively. That's what posting opinions means.

As for talking to yourself in a living room...    You can get pills for that.

Pity there aren't pills devised yet for WUM's. Pills that give off an allergic reaction to keyboards and smartphones giving them a dose of the runs.

Ha ha hahahahahahah!

Oh brilliant!

[It Must Be Love]

IMBL, thanks for your message.

No worries
Have a read, I think we agree on the main points, but disagree on a few issues too.

[lags72]

With all these quotes layered on to quotes, I'm losing track of who's busy trying to be offend who.

At least, the Rafa v Fed vested interests here never reach the level of vitriol to be seen on the ATP Facebook pages. Man, there are some seriously unhinged people posting there, in both camps ; all in marked contrast to the demonstrably excellent relationship between the two big names themselves

In similar vein, I'm sure many will recall the way in which WUM's of yesteryear on the old 606, such as the likes of Uneducated Biased/Simple Analyst/Tennis Tutor and Catalan Power used to spend so much time bigging up Pete Sampras, in the misguided hope that Federer followers would somehow get depressed. I often wonder if they realised that Federer + famille have been guests of Pete at his California home.

[temporary21]

Nice to see two posters air a grievance nicely in pm. Ignore the guys who just come in to winnd everyone up, we shouldn't be needing to have this paddy every time Nadal or federer lose

[temporary21]

Oh god those English- ish atp Facebook comments. They're just as bad as YouTube comments.

[It Must Be Love]

Nice to see two posters air a grievance nicely in pm.

lol I wasn't airing a grievance to BLB

But yes I agree, better to sort out grievances when they do occur via PM.

[It Must Be Love]

Oh god those English- ish atp Facebook comments. They're just as bad as YouTube comments.

Worse than the Youtube comments ? That must be some low depths they've sunk to.

[temporary21]

The match was quite good though, and Dasco turned up for once . Nadals a little out of Nick but that's maybe to expected. He's had back surgery after all and I believe we all agreed how much that can affect performance. He's never had a bad year but maybe for once he does need some time to get back.

[temporary21]

In the end if you dislike someone you don't know so much just because of the way they play, well that's your bag. Remember though that makes you no different to people who are the same to one of your favoured players. More importantly it's not ok to take that sort of thinking and impose it on other posters who dont agree, it drives people away and ultimately no one wants to go on s forum and get that

[JuliusHMarx]

Or maybe you just dislike the way they play, like with me and Ferrer. To be fair he'd probably not think much of the way I play either. But we could be BFFs at the bar.

[Haddie-nuff]

Or maybe you just dislike the way they play, like with me and Ferrer. To be fair he'd probably not think much of the way I play either. But we could be BFFs at the bar.

I would suggest a Spanish Bar.. it would be cheaper

[temporary21]

Or maybe you just dislike the way they play, like with me and Ferrer. To be fair he'd probably not think much of the way I play either. But we could be BFFs at the bar.

Well julius you don't post with glee when ferrer loses or argue with people who like ferrer. This is because you don't hate ferrer. You see posts in the  atp Facebook of people who literally hate someone just because they're the rival of their player, who throw vitriol at anyone who doesn't agree with it and it turns every comment section horribly sour. It must be do unpleasant to be s part of that

[lags72]

Or maybe you just dislike the way they play, like with me and Ferrer. To be fair he'd probably not think much of the way I play either. But we could be BFFs at the bar.

Don't be so negative JHM. I believe he speaks well of your serve

[Haddie-nuff]

I find that word "hate"says  something about the person who admits to doing so. Hate is such a strong emotion akin only to love. To feel that about someone you do not know is an obsession..sad.
You can dislike someone who you dont know, we all do it, admit it or not. Purely on what we observe nothing more. But I would not profess my love for anyone on a public forum or to a stranger.. why do people feel obliged to share that or their hatred ..(innermost emotions ) with anyone?? ) bitterness is self-destruction.To quote a well known poster
"its beyond my logic"

[CaledonianCraig]

Or maybe you just dislike the way they play, like with me and Ferrer. To be fair he'd probably not think much of the way I play either. But we could be BFFs at the bar.

Well julius you don't post with glee when ferrer loses or argue with people who like ferrer. This is because you don't hate ferrer. You see posts in the  atp Facebook of people who literally hate someone just because they're the rival of their player, who throw vitriol at anyone who doesn't agree with it and it turns every comment section horribly sour. It must be do unpleasant to be s part of that

Spot on.

There are players styles that I don't like or whose personalities get on my nerves or antics that bug me but I can still be disciplined enough to post up about their matches without my dislike having to shine through in my posts and offending others.

[Haddie-nuff]

CC

[Jahu]

Don't you 2 start again this confirmation/liking of each other posts HN+CC

JHM did you get married or what? Missing in action.

Ok, I think Nadal got enough of bashing for the day.

We await Djoko/Andy

[socal1976]

A great day of matches at Miami. Tsonga v. Monfils was fun although Tsonga is not back to where he can challenge again yet. Nadal and Verdasco was so entertaining. Nadal has to be worried about his form. This isn't like other years where whenever he came back from injury he quickly recovered his winning ways and shot back to the top of the tennis world. Continually having to do the work to get back from an injury and the wear and tear on his body is maybe finally starting to chip away at his form. Well he has the clay court season coming where you would think he will regain confidence.

[Haddie-nuff]

A great day of matches at Miami. Tsonga v. Monfils was fun although Tsonga is not back to where he can challenge again yet. Nadal and Verdasco was so entertaining. Nadal has to be worried about his form. This isn't like other years where whenever he came back from injury he quickly recovered his winning ways and shot back to the top of the tennis world. Continually having to do the work to get back from an injury and the wear and tear on his body is maybe finally starting to chip away at his form. Well he has the clay court season coming where you would think he will regain confidence.

An intelligent comment socal, and one I have to agree with. I fear the end may well be in sight this time. His nervous condition reflects that .. I think he knows it too. There is no way he can continue to suffer the injury/comeback syndrome much longer.
Its taken its toll mentally I think  and I am not sure he feels that his body can hold up to the hardest challenges. I really do not want to see him lose badly at the FO ..Im far from optimistic even when he plays on clay. He will fight doubtless, but will it be enough?

[socal1976]

Thanks Haddie, I think all we can do is wait and see. If Nadal comes back and has a great clay court season I think it will be a platform for him to launch into wimby and the rest of the season. At some point the cycle of injury/rehabilitation has to wear on a player. Personally, I hope he does come back and get back to playing at a slam winning level again. The game needs him as it needs Fed.

[temporary21]

All I can say I wish Nadal all the best. We've lost a lot of good players to bad firm and injury (Kyrgios, cilic, Tsonga, del potro). It's not good for the games health to havr Novak with so much daylight.  The game without Nadal isn't nearly as interesting to most tennis fans

[Belovedluckyboy]

The thing about Nadal now is, he's physically fit and healthy - no back pain, no knee pain, no appendicitis - according to him, so what's this 'injury/rehabilitation has to wear on a player' and '...that his body can hold up to the hardest challenges'? It's not like he's now moving or hitting gingerly, in fact his game is getting back on track, he's moving fine. I feel he's just getting used to competing again after resting for so long. Don't forget, Rafa didn't get to practice after his appendicitis surgery, until late Dec last year, and prior to the surgery, he hardly played any matches since Wimbledon. It's unlike his early 2013 comeback, when he was already practicing for the comeback during late 2012 to Jan 2013.

This comeback is not like his other comebacks in the past, IMO. He hardly had anytime to practice and train this time, and after not competing for so long. In 2009, he only missed Wimbledon; at end of 2008 when he was injured and skipped the DC final, he was competing right up till Paris Masters. In 2006 when he came back after AO that year, I believe he would have trained from 2005 to early 2006, and though he won Dubai that year, he wasn't doing particularly well at Miami, lost in his first match there, after reaching SF at IW.

What Rafa needs now is more match play, getting more wins to get back his sharpness. It may take time, but he's getting there. He may be on the downward slope now, after all, he's 28 going to be 29, he won't be at the top forever, just like Fed after turning 29. He will win some big titles I believe, just not that many more and no longer dominates on clay.

[Sponsored content]