Miami Masters 1000 Thread.

[temporary21]

First topic message reminder :

Cue the 80's music! Roll up roll up for all things Miami!

[Jahu]

Can Bellucci fix me a date with Monica?

Come on Dolgo, beat him.

[Haddie-nuff]

I think you are missing the point here  Nadal is known as much for his mental strength as his tennis (like it or not) Each time you are taken out with injury are you really telling me that he cannot be plagued with doubts. ??IM not saying whether his body can hold up to the hardest challenges.. but do you not think that HE MIGHT.??? Without considering the appendicitis, take the injuries he has suffered over the past few years,, and not even counting the times he has taken out over his knees. These injuries are part of Rafa's life, now and in the past. And he keeps picking himself up over and over..
What do you know of what medical advice or warningfs he has been given
There is a life beyond tennis. If it is not in the forefront of his mind when he takes to the court.. dont tell me it helps him mentally Never have I heard Rafa speak so openly about any of his problems than he did yesterday about his nerves.. RAFA?????

[Belovedluckyboy]

Rafa had his stem cell treatments on his knees and his back, According to him, his knees are in better condition now, pain is inevitable but it's not limiting his movement. His knees now seem to be in better condition than before. I do believe during his first few matches in 2015, he would have doubts about his body but right now, IMO, his nerves is due more to his lacking in match plays and match sharpness. I noticed he had shot selection issues, hesitant at times and so a split second late when executing his shots and so more mishitting, hitting into the net, etc. Unless his back is limiting him (he didn't mention anything.about his back), I don't think his nerve is due to worrying about his body, more like he's worrying about his game.when he has so many UEs and not able to hit to wherever he wants with precision.

[temporary21]

Clay is a good chance for him to work things out. It always gives him a boost its like roger at Wimbledon. Novaks a Berlin wall type stumbling block though

[Jahu]

Come on Dolgo, keep it up, while us here drown into Nadal bs.

[temporary21]

I expect Nadal will play barca this year. Would need to see how he does against Novak to really assess him

[Haddie-nuff]

Rafa had his stem cell treatments on his knees and his back,  According to him, his knees are in better condition now, pain is inevitable but it's not limiting his movement.  His knees now seem to be in better condition than before.  I do believe during his first few matches in 2015, he would have doubts about his body but right now, IMO, his nerves is due more to his lacking in match plays and match sharpness.  I noticed he had shot selection issues, hesitant at times and so a split second late when executing his shots and so more mishitting, hitting into the net, etc.  Unless his back is limiting him (he didn't mention anything.about his back), I don't think his nerve is due to worrying about his body, more like he's worrying about his game.when he has so many UEs and not able to hit to wherever he wants with precision.

I think one is inter-linked to the  other personally.. he has hardly every spoken of his physical problems. To speak about his nerves is something new.. and not one I would have thought he would have wished to share with everyone..including his opposition.Physical well-being is paramount to how you react mentally..on that surely you must agree.

[Jahu]

Dolgo wins.

Goffin wins.

Come on Raonic.

[laverfan]

Dolgo wins.

Goffin wins.

Come on Raonic.

Seconded the first two. Goffin handled JJ pretty well. His FH was very nice today.

Chardy has completely been flat in the first set. Can he fight back?

[Haddie-nuff]

Oh come on Chardy... go go !!

[Jahu]

Wake up Raonic, make some french toast.

LF, Chardy fought back but let's hope not for long, we need some brass

[Jahu]

So this Darcis is a bit of a joke for Djoko, should be easy, with obligatory Djoko getting broken maybe once.

[Jahu]

Well done, Raonic wins.

[Haddie-nuff]

Temp

Im publicly reporting that I am being misquoted..this is not what I wrote

[JuliusHMarx]

Temp

Im publicly reporting that I am being misquoted..this is not what I wrote

Fixed it for you H-N.

[Haddie-nuff]

Temp

Im publicly reporting that I am being misquoted..this is not what I wrote

Fixed it for you H-N.

Thanks JM

[temporary21]

Sorry I was watching a mafia thing. Good to see its dealt with

[Haddie-nuff]

Sorry I was watching a mafia thing. Good to see its dealt with

No prob as you say its been dealt with ty

[Jahu]

That why I did CAPS it.

So sensitive.

[temporary21]

Well Darcis has found the weakness in novaks armour. Take the pace off and slice it a little he doesn't like that at all

[Jahu]

Come on Darcis, take a set at least.

Djoko looks rattled, sure he will win in 2.

[Jahu]

Darcis can slice like a razor.

[Haddie-nuff]

Well Darcis has found the weakness in novaks armour. Take the pace off and slice it a little he doesn't like that at all

Ive just been saying the same thing

[summerblues]

Dimi

Just got home only to see him down a set and a break. I am not yet giving up on him, but the stretch since the last Wimbledon has been disappointing.

[summerblues]

Strengths vs Weaknesses analysis does not change Talent, or does it?

No, it does not, but how is that relevant?

Overall v Talented is an interesting take. Are you implying Overall = Talent + SomethingElse?

Well, clearly overall = talent + something else.  Something else will include all kinds of things - from things such as being born in the right country to things such as being the right height.  And, for people who do not include items such as mental strength in "talent", mental strength will show up under "something else".

[summerblues]

Generally yes - when the primary energy being used is running I would have thought the distance being travelled over time (and at what speed) is pretty fundamental. Tennis is not particularly stop-go (football by comparison is very much so) nor, if your movement is good, will you be putting particular strain on yourself to change direction.

Does not matter how good your movement is, change of direction by definition requires energy.  In any event, even if you forget about the change of direction, just the item you yourself put in parentheses ("and at what speed") makes the pure distance measure useless.  If you asked a 100m sprinter to run 100m 10 times within a couple of hours, they would be unable to produce 10 top notch times - yet they would only cover 1,000m in total.

I am not saying that your conclusion that tennis is not particularly taxing is obviously wrong, all I am saying is that your line of reasoning is insufficient and does not get us there.

[summerblues]

In the end if you dislike someone you don't know so much just because of the way they play, well that's your bag. Remember though that makes you no different to people who are the same to one of your favoured players. More importantly it's not ok to take that sort of thinking and impose it on other posters who dont agree, it drives people away and ultimately no one wants to go on s forum and get that

But do we see a lot of attempts to impose it on other posters?

Posters can root for or against players as they choose.  They should both be able expressed that freely and nothing should be imposed on anyone.  As far as I can tell, there is more of a danger of attempts to impose the opposite, i.e., to impose the view that rooting against a player is a bad thing.

Yesterday I noted that - as always - I was happy to see Rafa lose.  That is a pretty dry comment with not much in emotional undertones.  I did not suggest that I hated (or disliked) Rafa, and I certainly did not attack any posters.  

The response of some of the posters that criticized me in return was arguably far less measured (people should "feel sorry for me" - I beg your pardon?) or appropriate.  It was not me suggesting to everyone that if they rooted for Rafa, they needed to be pitied, it was the opposite.

[It Must Be Love]

People should be allowed to express any opinion they like, as long as it's not violent or personal, so even if you had said you hated Nadal- that is not against the house rules.

As for Haddie saying she felt sorry for you etc.- well she's also entitled to that opinion.
My opinion is the same as what I said 2 weeks ago, I think obsessively rooting against a player (i.e. watching matches he's playing in 250 tournaments of tennis you find low quality, just to hope he loses), is a more negative approach to following tennis than having a favourite who you want to win. However people are entitled to both positive and negative approaches, but there is a distinction in my eyes.
Furthermore I also said I think there's a big difference too between simply not liking a player (maybe like HM and BB?), and then obsessively following matches you wouldn't have otherwise watched just to root against him as I described above.

Yesterday I noted that - as always - I was happy to see Rafa lose.

SB, I think you know fully well that just after Nadal loses, in what was a particularly painful defeat for his fans, saying a snide comment like that would inevitably wind people up and stir something.

[Silver]

All I can say I wish Nadal all the best. We've lost a lot of good players to bad firm and injury (Kyrgios, cilic, Tsonga, del potro). It's not good for the games health to havr Novak with so much daylight.  The game without Nadal isn't nearly as interesting to most tennis fans

God this is so true. I really like Novak but we need someone to compete with him. Even though it wasn't that close, the fight for #1 last season kept us interested. Murray may come good but can't get near him right now, and the chasing generation is too inconsistent, far away or just a plain bad matchup. Federer is doing well to keep him honest, but if he's the only legitimate competition then that spells trouble.

We need Rafa back - but it's going to get worse before it gets better. He's defending a lot of points over the clay season as ever, and if he loses before the final at RG then he could mirror Stan's rankings slide. Fortunately he's defending almost nothing beyond Wimbledon, so he'll have opportunities to climb again. I'd probably agree with HM that he won't conquer as he did, but I'm sure he'll be in the mix at slams and on clay generally.

Can't help but wish him well. I may like a few other players more, but a Nadal in full flow is something else. I'd hate to see him go the way of Del Potro and others, the tour would be lesser for it.

[Haddie-nuff]

Please dont misquote me SB I did not say I felt sorry for you
what I said was "I dont know whether I feel more SAD for him than you"
There is a difference.. and I dont retract that. I dont have an issue of whether you like/dislike/hate Nadal.. there are some players I also do not like and maybe some that I hope do not win and or beat the other player Im rooting for. However I keep those thoughts to myself because PERSONALLY I see no mileage in or gain satisfaction in expressing those thoughts on this forum .. because I would gain nothing. If thats sound pious sobeit.. Im not out to win friends or influence anyone neither am I trying to make enemies. I come to this forum in the hope that I can have a civilised discussion with like-minded people simples.  Fans of Federer/Nadal have taken the repercussions of wins losses and other issues over the years. At this stage in their careers can we not at least have respect for each other's pleasure in their wins, and disappointments at their losses. Without rubbing the salt in.We dont have much longer to appreciate either of them

[summerblues]

Please dont misquote me SB I did not say I felt sorry for you
what I said was "I dont know whether I feel more SAD for him than you"
There is a difference.. and I dont retract that.

Fair enough, I misremembered.  I would still respond with "I beg your pardon?" though.  My comment was about a player (and even that not in any negative way - all I said I was happy he lost, which does not imply anything bad about him as a person) and not about a poster, and that is a big difference.

I come to this forum in the hope that I can have a civilised discussion with like-minded people simples.

Same here.  But civilized discussion should allow expression of all sorts of views/opinions/emotions - even those that some posters may find unpalatable and offensive - as long as the whole discussion is conducted in a reasonable manner.

[summerblues]

Back to tennis.  As regards Rafa's form etc, I am of the view that come clay court season - and especially RG - he will be there or thereabouts.

I probably agree that there is a bigger chance than usual that he may not win RG, but I would definitely make him the #1 favorite ahead of Nole, though maybe with less than 50/50 chance against the field.

[Haddie-nuff]

Please dont misquote me SB I did not say I felt sorry for you
what I said was "I dont know whether I feel more SAD for him than you"
There is a difference.. and I dont retract that.

Fair enough, I misremembered.  I would still respond with "I beg your pardon?" though.  My comment was about a player (and even that not in any negative way - all I said I was happy he lost, which does not imply anything bad about him as a person) and not about a poster, and that is a big difference.

I come to this forum in the hope that I can have a civilised discussion with like-minded people simples.

Same here.  But civilized discussion should allow expression of all sorts of views/opinions/emotions - even those that some posters may find unpalatable and offensive - as long as the whole discussion is conducted in a reasonable manner.

Notice you could not respond to my post in full... so game set and match !!!

[summerblues]

Notice you could not respond to my post in full... so game set and match !!!

I do not follow.  Am I supposed to requote your whole post?  Which part do you feel needed addressing and was not addressed?

[summerblues]

Not clear to me which part you felt needed special attention, but here I address your post in full:

Please dont misquote me SB I did not say I felt sorry for you
what I said was "I dont know whether I feel more SAD for him than you"
There is a difference.. and I dont retract that.

already addressed

I dont have an issue of whether you like/dislike/hate Nadal.. there are some players I also do not like and maybe some that I hope do not win and or beat the other player Im rooting for. However I keep those thoughts to myself because PERSONALLY I see no mileage in or gain satisfaction in expressing those thoughts on this forum .. because I would gain nothing.

Good for you.  To each their own.  I am not suggesting you have to change, so as long as you are not suggesting I need to change all is good.

If thats sound pious sobeit.. Im not out to win friends or influence anyone neither am I trying to make enemies.

As per above, to each their own.

I come to this forum in the hope that I can have a civilised discussion with like-minded people simples.

already addressed

Fans of Federer/Nadal have taken the repercussions of wins losses and other issues over the years. At this stage in their careers can we not at least have respect for each other's pleasure in their wins, and disappointments at their losses.  Without rubbing the salt in.We dont have much longer to appreciate either of them

If you are suggesting that posters should refrain from posting negative sentiments about Rafa and Fed, then the answer is a resounding no.  Definitely posters should feel free to express whatever sentiments they want to express.  If you personally do not like negative sentiments, by all means do not express them.  But you should certainly not attempt to impose the same on others.

[Haddie-nuff]

I bet its bliddy cold up there on that high  horse of yours.

[Born Slippy]

Hmm, Dimitrov thrashed by Isner last night. Another bad result for him. Got some big points to defend over the next few months as well.

[HM Murdock]

I really like Novak but we need someone to compete with him. Even though it wasn't that close, the fight for #1 last season kept us interested. Murray may come good but can't get near him right now, and the chasing generation is too inconsistent, far away or just a plain bad matchup. Federer is doing well to keep him honest, but if he's the only legitimate competition then that spells trouble.

We need Rafa back

Although I must admit that Novak being the undisputed top player isn't entirely unsatisfying to the fanboy in me, I do agree with this comment.

Tennis needs its rivalries.

Federer was enhanced by the emergence of Nadal, and Nadal was enhanced by the emergence of Djokovic. It meant that statistically they lost more matches than they might otherwise have done, but it also meant that victories were more meaningful and the classic matches were more frequent.

When we look back at Federer's career, it isn't the comfortable wins against Roddick and Hewitt that that take pride of place in the memory but the battles (win or lose) against Rafa and Novak.

Rafa's SF victory over Djokovic at RG in 2013 helps define his greatness. The comfortable win in the final against Ferrer is a footnote in comparison.

I fear that for Novak, a period in which he is somewhere near the peak of his powers may end up being largely forgettable in historical terms. He needs a rival to challenge him all the way throughout the season.

Although I'd be quite happy if this rival didn't appear until after RG...

[Born Slippy]

I don't see that at all HM. If he uses the next 4 years of slightly fallow competition to garner another 8-10 slams (a la 04-07), then he will clearly be anything but a footnote. Indeed, even if he only gathers 1 slam a year from now over that period he will be one of the greatest ever.

[Belovedluckyboy]

If that happens, then we may have another endless debate about weak era, just like the debate about Fed's 2004-2007.

[CaledonianCraig]

If that happens, then we may have another endless debate about weak era, just like the debate about Fed's 2004-2007.

No I don't think that can ever be the case though. Roger's fans dispelled there ever being any weak era/strong era possible in tennis at all and it is something of a taboo subject on here. Therefore that can't be used as a trump card if Novak marched to say nine or ten slam wins in the next three or four years somehow and usurped Roger's record.

[HM Murdock]

I don't see that at all HM. If he uses the next 4 years of slightly fallow competition to garner another 8-10 slams (a la 04-07), then he will clearly be anything but a footnote. Indeed, even if he only gathers 1 slam a year from now over that period he will be one of the greatest ever.

Oh yes, I agree that his career stats will (and already do) place him among the greats.

But the comparison with Federer's 04-07 is quite a good one in that the numbers that were posted are brilliant, but how many matches from that period stand out as classics?

Note: this may just be my perception of course, and Fed fans may well have lots of fond memories from this period.

[It Must Be Love]

Tennis fans tend to look simply at the statistics.

If no rival emerged at all, Federer, Nadal, Murray declined further, no young star managed to raise their game (which is very possible), you could see Djokovic having a easier time in terms of competition, and picking up a significant amount of slams without even having to reach top gear.
Meanwhile you could see the resurgence of Nadal, and then a young star could seriously step up his game, perhaps Kyrgios starts red-lining the ball with consistency and power, and then Djokovic's Grand Slam chances will be limited and shared out, and it will be harder for him to win a Slam. Even then, I think the fact Djokovic would be being challenged itself may actually mean he has to improve his game and become a better player, even though he'd be worse statistically.

So in the latter scenario I'd probably say Djokovic is more likely to have to improve his game and become a better player, but most tennis fans just look at stats, so it's better for his standing in the game to have a few dull years with no competition.

[HM Murdock]

Tennis fans tend to look simply at the statistics.

True. It's probably one of our great failings!

It's in an interesting conundrum that your comment poses me. Would I prefer to see Djokovic get to, say, 14 slams in a comfortable but forgettable way, or would I prefer him to win a couple fewer but take part in all-time classic matches along the way?

[It Must Be Love]

Tennis fans tend to look simply at the statistics.

True. It's probably one of our great failings!

It's in an interesting conundrum that your comment poses me. Would I prefer to see Djokovic get to, say, 14 slams in a comfortable but forgettable way, or would I prefer him to win a couple fewer but take part in all-time classic matches along the way?

That I think depends on how much of a Novak fanboy you are deep down

I think an even more pertinent question is; would you prefer Djokovic to be challenged and actually become a better player, or have little competition and win slams without being stretched to a great extent ? Even though Djokovic would be a worse player for it, most tennis fans would see Djokovic in a better light if he did win with much easier competition (compared to winning less with harder).

It depends on to what extent your a fan, and whether you'd be happy making a judgement on Djokovic that most disagree with.

[Belovedluckyboy]

I certainly hope so. The weak era debate is tedious, happens everywhere at tennis forums.

[It Must Be Love]

I certainly hope so.  The weak era debate is tedious, happens everywhere at tennis forums.

Perhaps, but that doesn't change the fact itself that Djokovic could face harder/easier competition depending on whether a young star emerges or Nadal/Murray start re-firing.

[HM Murdock]

That I think depends on how much of a Novak fanboy you are deep down  

Said partly in jest, but accurate nonetheless!

I think if I reach the point where I want Novak to have lots of titles just because I like Novak, then I've become a fan of the man rather than the sport.

I really don't want to be that.

[It Must Be Love]

That I think depends on how much of a Novak fanboy you are deep down  

Said partly in jest, but accurate nonetheless!

I think if I reach the point where I want Novak to have lots of titles just because I like Novak, then I've become a fan of the man rather than the sport.

I really don't want to be that.

In many ways, I don't think the choice is between Djokovic the man vs joy from Tennis the sport.

Let me give you my example.
Now it's pretty clear that if Djokovic had not taken the step up in 2011, and stayed as he was in most of 2010 (for example, let's say he never managed to remodel that loopy cricket bowler style serve), then Nadal would not have been challenged in such a fierce way.
Nadal would have had a much greater chance of winning a few more Grand Slam titles, and a few more Masters events too. So statistically I think he would have been better of without Djokovic's amazing rise.
However as a player, I'm almost certain Djokovic's presence improved Nadal. The forehand DTL, which Nadal started hitting ridiculously well in the half of 2012 he played and then 2013, was because he had to improve to cope with Djokovic. Nadal was a 'better' player for Djokovic- which surely should also translate to 'greater' player.

Also personally for me, if not for Djokovic I would never have had to go through matches like the French Open 2013 semi-final. That was a joyous day, and I've never reacted like that after a sporting event. Despite the painful defeats, the wins against Djokovic for Nadal has more than compensated, incredible drama, entertainment, and joy.

So Djokovic not only helped Nadal become a better, greater player, but also created my fondest tennis moments.
I suppose HM with that in mind, you should be hoping for a new young star to come through and have an amazing rivalry with Djokovic, or Nadal re-emerges and does so- it will be a better for both your man and tennis.
But... many people if that happens will see Djokovic at a lower standing in the game due to lower stats, so you will be aware that the average tennis fan will not see Djokovic in a better light at all.

[HM Murdock]

Good comment, IMBL. I feel much the same.

My favourite Djokovic moments have been the US11 SF/F and AO12. In fact, they're not just my favourite Djokovic moments, they are among my favourite moments in any sport.

But they simply couldn't have happened against anything other than great players.

The downside of great rivals is that for every moment of exhilaration, there is a moment like RG13 where you feel like your insides have been ripped out!

But I think if we are happy to accept the moments of anguish if it means we get moments of joy, then we remain fans of the sport more than fans of the individual.

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