Even the Irish think England were robbed.............

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/england-try-ireland-forward-pass-six-nations/15911


With the above and the way England played against France (with the sort of French performance that pushed the ABs close in the last RWC), IMO and I suspect the opinions of the Ireland, Wales and France teams, England go in to the RWC with the upper-hand. Judging by the NZ press, they doubt that any team (including the ABs) could have lived with England on Saturday. Bring it on!

Where the feck are you from. these posts are an embarrassment.

Ireland won the championship fair and square.

Ireland, England and Wales will all be buoyed by overall performances, but concerned about certain weaknesses.

MissBlennerhassett wrote:http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/england-try-ireland-forward-pass-six-nations/15911


With the above and the way England played against France (with the sort of French performance that pushed the ABs close in the last RWC), IMO and I suspect the opinions of the Ireland, Wales and France teams, England go in to the RWC with the upper-hand. Judging by the NZ press, they doubt that any team (including the ABs) could have lived with England on Saturday. Bring it on!

I agree with all of that, but sadly this one is gonna bring the trolls out in force

To be fair, LiW, it's a wum thread.

How was that a good French performance? To think so is completely deluded. They shipped 55 points, left at least 12 from missing easy kicks. Their defending was appalling around the ruck, once England made a line break they were lazy getting back and had a non-existant scamble defence. NZ would have put 70 on them if they played that loose and with that much disregard for defence.

I presume you think Gael Fickou had a good game? Watch what he does for Ben Young's 2nd try. Grubbers the ball into touch, 5m lineout England. He continues to jog past the in goal, switches off completely. England break, no sign of him, France concede the pen, no sign of him. He comes into shot after the 1st ruck and jogs into the line where 5 Frenchmen are defending nobody because England have gone left, and Youngs then walks under the posts. That is a nutshell of how France played.

If England play like they played on Saturday they certainly have a chance of winning the RWC - on the other hand if they play like they did against Wales, Ireland or Scotland then that chance is seriously reduced.
What seperates a great team from a good team is not how good they are but how few mistakes they make - the 2003England team were very good but more to the point made very few mistakes, the AB's are the model of consistency most of the time, most of the other teams blow hot and cold to varying degrees.
I think this could be the most open RWC for a long time and I don't really think there's a clear favourite.

I'd add that Ireland were deserved winners over the championship, but we certainly gave it a lash at the end

Irish Londoner wrote:If England play like they played on Saturday they certainly have a chance of winning the RWC - on the other hand if they play like they did against Wales, Ireland or Scotland then that chance is seriously reduced.
What seperates a great team from a good team is not how good they are but how few mistakes they make - the 2003England team were very good but more to the point made very few mistakes, the AB's are the model of consistency most of the time, most of the other teams blow hot and cold to varying degrees.
I think this could be the most open RWC for a long time and I don't really think there's a clear favourite.

Vs Wales we had a horrible first 20 minutes, but the rest of the game was exactly the kind of performance which does win big championships, all about control discipline and patience.

LostinWales - exactly my point, no side can afford a horrible opening 20 minutes against the AB's or Bokke and then try to claw back into the game.

Irish Londoner wrote:LostinWales - exactly my point, no side can afford a horrible opening 20 minutes against the AB's or Bokke and then try to claw back into the game.

England have had the horrible opening 20 minutes, and then put themselves level against South Africa (2014), and ahead against NZ (2013) and France (2014 SN). They are capable of scoring points, but its the lack of experience in England that causes them to ultimately lose the games. For example, the majority of this England team could be picked for the 2019 World Cup, how many other teams could say that? But it is the main reason to me why England aren't winning anything now.

Irish Londoner wrote:If England play like they played on Saturday they certainly have a chance of winning the RWC - on the other hand if they play like they did against Wales, Ireland or Scotland then that chance is seriously reduced.
What seperates a great team from a good team is not how good they are but how few mistakes they make - the 2003England team were very good but more to the point made very few mistakes, the AB's are the model of consistency most of the time, most of the other teams blow hot and cold to varying degrees.
I think this could be the most open RWC for a long time and I don't really think there's a clear favourite.

Totally agree with this. England have proved that they have the game to beat anyone but lack consistency. If we can eradicate the sort of hapless passages of play as witnessed during the fist halves against Wales and Ireland and keep up the intensity throughout the tournament, then this team can win anything.

LondonTiger wrote:Where the feck are you from. these posts are an embarrassment.

Ireland won the championship fair and square.

Ireland, England and Wales will all be buoyed by overall performances, but concerned about certain weaknesses.

?????? Nice balanced riposte there. Well done

He is right though, isn't he? It's a silly thread

You reckon we can win with the nepotism of picking Ford now Miss? We should surely be looking on getting Freddie Burns in the team (he played well vs the Argies remember)?

Munchkin wrote:He is right though, isn't he? It's a silly thread

Is it "silly" or a "WUM thread" because it doesn't conform to your opinion Munchkin? Very arrogant!

I happen to believe that Ireland are a very good, consistent team, well deserving of the title, I just don't think they have the potential to set the world alight. I think England are in some ways ill disciplined and lacking in leaders throughout the park but with huge potential to play attractive, tournament winning rugby.

My post merely points out that an Irish website thought that Nowell scored a legitimate try that was disallowed.

I'm sorry that you feel agrieved that all posters don't agree with your opinions but even sorrier that you feel they should

It's a silly wum thread

If Ireland get into the semi's, I couldn't care less about setting the world alight. Having said that, I think the stand out game of this 6N's is the Wales v Ireland game, followed by the Ireland v England game.

Your post claims the Irish agree with you that England were robbed, when in fact the article you refer too makes no such claim.

Now, I don't know if that pass was forward or not, but I do know England dropped the ball in one of their tries against France. So your contention is moot

Ireland won the title an for that I am very happy but it wasn't until the Scotland game that we saw what Ireland are capable of. That said, it was against a very poor Scotland team.

England, for me, have been the better all-round team and one that I have enjoyed watching. In Ford, they have a very good 10 capable of getting their backline moving but its a shame that come the RWC, Farrell will be fit, England will select him and as a result, will return to the norm.

Wales, well they are Wales. Stunning at times and just a very solid team.

Very little between the tree if I may be honest but I am glad that Ireland is not in their group

Nachos, if England do go back to Farrell it would be a backward step but may not be as damaging as you say. He can get the back line moving and his kicking out of hand is much better than Ford (though England have to learn to chase). Ireland, Wales and England will all pose a threat at the RWC, but Ireland may come unstuck against a very attacking team, Wales lack a quality bench and England will probably go AWOL at the most inopportune time.

Not wanting to move to Burns anymore then?

Ford has been lined up for this job for quite a while. Its just a combination of being younger than Farrell, a good deal smaller, and getting injured when opportunities came up before.

A fit and on form Farrell is an asset. If he can get back to where he was around the last 6N then Farrell will be very much part of the squad, but its going to be Ford as no.1 (until he gets broken)

Burns has had his moments, but has also spent a year and a half playing poorly. I believe he is playing a lot better now but there is a lot of competition.

Troll Fly reporting for duty, lostinwales, sir!

Okay.

Look at the table folks.

Ireland - 3 tries scored against them through five games.

3 tries.

3 tries.

Whilst others are reflecting on all the lovely tries scored!!!....

.... Joe Schmidt will be secretly fuming that those three tries went in.

So - it's a question of emphasis.  A question of what kinda sweet man you are.  Do you like Jellies or do you prefer toffee?

Farrell was good at kicking out of hand but has not been for a while (carrying a knock?).

Rarely have I seen Farrell get an England back line moving, its usually down to him being partnered with a very attacking 9 who covers 9 and 10. Farrell is too deep and too pragmatic in his style. England have the forwards to create quick ball and the backs to exploit it. With Farrell there, its stops with him. I am an Irish fan but I must say, England look a far more balanced team and certainly a lot more attacking with Ford at 10.

I would certainly have Farrell in the squad as he would be perfect in closing out tight matches against SH sides.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not wanting to move to Burns anymore then?

Yes 7.5, England have missed a trick there, happy?

Irish Londoner wrote:If England play like they played on Saturday they certainly have a chance of winning the RWC

If we play like that in the RWC I have serious doubts we would get out of the group.

Defensively France were a shambles. How they had got that far conceding only two tries I do not know. Against a decent team we would be seriously punished for the looseness and naivety we displayed. Wales and Australia are both decent sides.

SecretFly wrote:Troll Fly reporting for duty, lostinwales, sir!

Okay.

Look at the table folks.

Ireland - 3 tries scored against them through five games.

3 tries.

3 tries.

Whilst others are reflecting on all the lovely tries scored!!!....

.... Joe Schmidt will be secretly fuming that those three tries went in.

So - it's a question of emphasis.  A question of what kinda sweet man you are.  Do you like Jellies or do you prefer toffee?

That would be 4 tries there Fly - check out the link (to an Irish site).

If it was a fourth try there would have been mayhem this weekend. The game was Over two minutes before. Everyone keeps ignoring the point but the proof is the clock and a rewatch of the game.

There'd have been controversy to end all controversy

SecretFly wrote:If it was a fourth try there would have been mayhem this weekend.  The game was Over two minutes before.  Everyone keeps ignoring the point but the proof is the clock and a rewatch of the game.  

There'd have been controversy to end all controversy

What the Irish blaming the referee? Never!

Rewatch the second half, Blenner, and keep a close eye on the clock after Henshaw's try. You rewatched the 'fourth try' often enough, that extra little task shouldn't be too difficult.

SecretFly wrote:If it was a fourth try there would have been mayhem this weekend.  The game was Over two minutes before.  Everyone keeps ignoring the point but the proof is the clock and a rewatch of the game.  

There'd have been controversy to end all controversy

Perhaps I should start a "why we love Nigel Owens" thread and debate that last second penalty awarded to the retreating French side on their try line ad infinitum.

By all means do so. I won't care The Welsh might get annoyed. But we won't care - we have the Replica Cup safely in our grasp and not letting go until next year.

SecretFly wrote:Rewatch the second half, Blenner, and keep a close eye on the clock after Henshaw's try.  You rewatched the 'fourth try' often enough, that extra little task shouldn't be too difficult.

Timeless comment Fly, thanks!

Wasn't Nowell's foot in touch anyway?

3 tries all tournament. Is that the record or did Wales do better a few years ago?

MissBlennerhassett wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not wanting to move to Burns anymore then?

Yes 7.5, England have missed a trick there, happy?

Yes thanks. Thanks god you're not a selector. I'm all done now.

LondonTiger wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:If England play like they played on Saturday they certainly have a chance of winning the RWC

If we play like that in the RWC I have serious doubts we would get out of the group.

Defensively France were a shambles. How they had got that far conceding only two tries I do not know. Against a decent team we would be seriously punished for the looseness and naivety we displayed. Wales and Australia are both decent sides.

England play Uruguay and Fiji - not gimmes but games England should expect to win comfortably. Then Wales, who 'palying like that' England beat in Cardiff. I think getting out of the group is a distinct possibility personally.

Jimpy, England's manner of play in the Wales and France games bears no comparison.

Now I believe we will win all our group games. But if we play the headless chicken stuff we did against France, in the matches with Wales and Australia I believe we would probably lose.

MichaelT wrote:3 tries all tournament. Is that the record or did Wales do better a few years ago?

Wales conceded 2 in in 2008 I think. It's good going anyway!

Its unfair to blame Ireland for this injustice, its not their fault that England folded and let them win easily at home

France said they were mad about that...they felt England didn't try hard enough.

MissBlennerhassett wrote:http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/england-try-ireland-forward-pass-six-nations/15911


With the above and the way England played against France (with the sort of French performance that pushed the ABs close in the last RWC), IMO and I suspect the opinions of the Ireland, Wales and France teams, England go in to the RWC with the upper-hand. Judging by the NZ press, they doubt that any team (including the ABs) could have lived with England on Saturday. Bring it on!

The graphic on that picture probably just proves that the pass was forward as the ball is still in the England players hand and yet the line is perfectly flat as Nowell progresses further forward. Refs judge the call as the ball leaves the hands and the direction they were facing at the time so one blurry image proves nothing.

Secondly you could also say that that try was scored in overtime that shouldnt have been allowed as the ref forgot to stop the clock earlier in the game. It was estimated that he played two minutes extra.

You could also stake a claim that Billy Vunapola’s try v France should not have been allowed as it was a clear knock on and similarly the try Scotland scored v Ireland appeared to be clearly forward yet it wasn’t reviewed by the TMO.

Unless you have Barnes as ref I think luck and decisions even out over the tournament in general or indeed sometimes a bit of luck is required to separate teams.
For years Ireland were the bridesmaids coming second to France sometimes in agonising circumstances. During those years Ireland like England often played the most attractive rugby. ’07 springs to mind. However, this year Ireland were clinical, they got the job done and deserve the trophy.

something is wrong in this place..if Wales ships 60 points on us we deserve to be kicked out from the competitions, if France allows (this is the case actually and not viceversa) England to score 55 then it's all credit to England. i'd be hurt if I was welsh

aqualung71 wrote:something is wrong in this place..if Wales ships 60 points on us we deserve to be kicked out from the competitions, if France allows (this is the case actually and not viceversa) England to score 55 then it's all credit to England. i'd be hurt if I was welsh

Not in a million years should Italy be kicked out. Cant stand it when people say that. I would like to see Italy improve a bit though.

GunsGerms wrote:

aqualung71 wrote:something is wrong in this place..if Wales ships 60 points on us we deserve to be kicked out from the competitions, if France allows (this is the case actually and not viceversa) England to score 55 then it's all credit to England. i'd be hurt if I was welsh

Not in a million years should Italy be kicked out. Cant stand it when people say that. I would like to see Italy improve a bit though.

we too, what many people don't catch is we actually did. we score much more than in the past and we have played several tight, close matches and we even have beat teams who were unapproachable for us in the past like England, France and Ireland. We just need to open our players' base, and find 2/3 good players in the key roles, confidence will grow. just forget the second half vs Wales, was a mental thing, just focus on the first half, it's where we start from.

I dont think Italy has ever defeated England.

You have beaten Ireland and France and definitely have improved. Yes the second half v Wales was mental and was a bit disapointing as a neutral. No matter by how much you are losing whatever the sport you should always battle to the end as a matter of pride IMO.

GunsGerms wrote:I dont think Italy has ever defeated England.

You have beaten Ireland and France and definitely have improved. Yes the second half v Wales was mental and was a bit disapointing as a neutral. No matter by how much you are losing whatever the sport you should always battle to the end as a matter of pride IMO.

you are absolutely right and only a fool could argue with that. yes we never beat England, but on 2012 and 2013 it was just a coincidence you didn't. didn't happen, but it could. we never even came close in the past to edge it, and for me it's an improvement, no matter what people say. we lack, beside 2/3 up-the-level SH and FH, consistence and mental strenght, but you build this only winning, and to win we need players first. England, Ireland, Wales could never perform or win with Haimona, Orquera of Gori. But we'll find someone sooner or later, while I can see, for the first time, a bunch of young, born-and-bred italian backs who can actually play offensive rugby and can score tries, that's why I'm confident. Sarto, Campagnaro, Morisi Venditti, Visentin, Bacchin are all good, young players. Parisse and Zanni aside, Minto, Favaro, Furno, Biagi, are all very good and young players. So i see some light

No team should be "kicked out".

I am however of the belief that if we want XV a side rugby to grow we have to find ways of enabling other countries in Europe to progress and play the "big" boys.

One way would be to have a promotion/relegation play off, which could happen every two years to allow a full set of home and away fixtures.

There are of course other ways.

Too late anyway sadly. Sevens is now the format of choice in most countries - so looks like XVs will always be a minority sport.