Ulster vs Cardiff Blues

by neilthom7 Tue 24 Mar 2015, 3:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ulster v Cardiff Blues
Kingspan Stadium, Belfast
Friday 27th March 2015
19.35 Kick Off
Live on BBC 2 NI and BBC 2 Wales

Team News
Ulster- (15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, D Cave (Captain), S Olding, M Allen, P Jackson, R Pienaar; (1-8): C Black, R Herring, W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, I Henderson, C Ross, N Williams;
Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, B Ross, R Diack, A N Other, P Marshall, I Humphreys, R Scholes.

Cardiff Blues- 15 Rhys Patchell, 14 Alex Cuthbert, 13 Cory Allen, 12 Gavin Evans, 11Lucas Amorosino, 10 Gareth Anscombe, 9 Lloyd Williams; 1 Sam Hobbs, 2 Matthew Rees (c), 3 Adam Jones, 4 Jarrad Hoeata, 5 Lou Reed, 6 Josh Turnbull, 7 Ellis Jenkins, 8 Josh Navidi

Replacements: 16 Kristian Dacey, 17 Taufa'ao Filise, 18 Scott Andrews, 19 Macauley Cook, 20 Manoa Vosawai, 21 Tavis Knoyle, 22 Gareth Davies, 23 Tom Isaacs

A discussion point for everything related to the game on Friday. Ulster should have Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding available start the game after injury. Roger Wilson is unavailable after suspension due to personal reasons and Iain Henderson returns at blindside after coming off the bench for Ireland at the weekend.

Ulster have next weekend off as they aren't in any European competition and will be looking to take a maximum 5 points from this before that ummm let's call it tricky run of fixtures we have coming up as we try and head for a home Semi Final.

Cardiff have The Dragons after this in the Challenge Cup Quarters and will want to win this for form and also to help avoid being the last placed Welsh team in the Pro 12.

Should be a cracking fixture

by LordDowlais Mon 30 Mar 2015, 1:07 pm

MrsP wrote:The IRFU clearly read some of the nonsense that gets posted on here!

You make a good point. Rolling Eyes

by The Great Aukster Mon 30 Mar 2015, 1:26 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:It's interesting that Lacey isn't allowed by the IRFU, nor indeed is any current Irish referee allowed to officiate in games involving their home branch.

Why would that be the case then TGA ? Because Notch would have us believe that the provinces have NOTHING to do with the branch.

So what you are telling us is the IRFU do not allow referees to ref certain Irish derbies just in case of bias ?

No not exclusively Irish derbies - any game involving their home branch. A simple explanation would be that they don't allow it to ensure some idiot can't accuse them of any bias.

by Pete330v2 Mon 30 Mar 2015, 1:31 pm

gcBlues wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:"And neither of you have answered my question as to why is it Ulster do not play on Sundays"

I can't say I know absolutely why but I suspect it has something to do with how sundays are treated in Northern Ireland where everything closes down. It may be to avoid DUP pickets outside the Ravespan or the fact there is a large Christian contingent in the squad. Perhaps it's a combination of all those or something altogether different.

The Northern Ireland Football team played yesterday though so none of those can reasons valid, surely? The religious one especially.

Look at the stats:

By the end of the regular season, Ulster will not have played a home game on a sunday. 8 of the home fixtures will have been on a friday and 2 on a saturday. The remaining game is TBC. With away fixtures they will have played 2 games on a sunday (this disproves the religious reason).

Compare that with the Dragons:

Home fixtures on a friday: 2
Home fixtures on a saturday: 2
Home fixtures on a sunday: 5

Away fixtures on a Friday: 1
Away fixtures on a saturday: 4
Away fixtures on a sunday: 6

Not exactly a fair allocation of fixtures across both teams. Could it have something to do with the Welsh regions bringing in a far greater share of the TV money from the beeb and thus their games being on the demand of Scrum V and S4C? Maybe, but the lopsided fixture list is another reason why this league needs redoing.

This is not me saying the blues should have one, they were soundly beaten by Ulster in the first half due to our inept coaching and tactics. My gripe is that is increasingly becoming away that this league needs to change the way it approaches things or it will forever be seen as an inferior league to england/france.

I believe a league should also never allow itself to give people an opportunity to call bias (especially coaches, like Pat Lam) regarding the refereeing team. This is why i want full neutral teams, including at derby matches because calls of favouritism will be morseso if you have, for instance, Munster v Leinster and Munster win through a very dubious TMO try decision and the TMO is Dermot Moloney, chair of the Munster Association of Referees. He's been there TMO countless times before, is he truly independent?

Northern Ireland football team? Do we still have one?
The friday night thing with Ulster most likely comes from the TV slot as well of course. I really don't know and am shooting in the dark here.

by LordDowlais Mon 30 Mar 2015, 1:32 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:No not exclusively Irish derbies - any game involving their home branch. A simple explanation would be that they don't allow it to ensure some idiot can't accuse them of any bias..

So the IRFU are saying there could be bias ? Or because they know I might come on here and say it ? Why should John Lacey not be allowed to ref Munster games ? Because as Notch has already said, the province and the branch are two separate entities, or is this not true ?

by Pete330v2 Mon 30 Mar 2015, 1:35 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:This is almost reaching the sitting back with popcorn stage. The delusion that exists in dowlais' world is a laugh and a half.
Accusing any professional official of match fixing the or merely being unfairly biased to one side due to personal interests or feelings is as laughable as it is illegal. I'm not sure whether I feel pity or scorn for anyone harbouring such feelings.

But you feel the need to keep commenting on it to keep it going? Almost as if you really enjoy joining in with the pack and targeting the lone poster with an alternate view point. I tell you what I'm sure there is a name for people like that.

I can only comment occasionally as I'm working so only get the odd chance to pop in. I'm joining no pack but am voicing my distain for anyone who continuously rattles on about biased refs and match fixing conspiracy theories. There's a name for people like that too.

by MrsP Mon 30 Mar 2015, 1:36 pm

So....

You think the fact the Lacey trains with Munster could make him more lenient towards them and that should not be allowed.

When you hear that it is not allowed you criticise them?

I think we get the picture!

by Guest Mon 30 Mar 2015, 1:43 pm

This thread is hilarious Very Happy

The comments posted by L'D and gc might be nonsense, but they do have comedy value.

by LeinsterFan4life Mon 30 Mar 2015, 1:47 pm

Lacey shouldn't ref Munster games because he from Munster simple as. Dudley Phillips is from Leinster so he should be able to ref Munster games without any bias.

by LordDowlais Mon 30 Mar 2015, 1:55 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Lacey shouldn't ref Munster games because he from Munster simple as. Dudley Phillips is from Leinster so he should be able to ref Munster games without any bias.

So we are admitting their could be some level of bias are we ?

And we are saying that the branches and the provinces are the same thing as well ?

I just want to clear a few things up, despite what others on here are saying about me.

by LordDowlais Mon 30 Mar 2015, 1:58 pm

MrsP wrote:So....

You think the fact the Lacey trains with Munster could make him more lenient towards them and that should not be allowed.

When you hear that it is not allowed you criticise them?

I think we get the picture!

I am just trying to clear things up, thats all.

It seems that, the IRFU are admitting there could be bias, because they will not allow certain refs to referee certain games, so now that we can all agree that there is smoe level of bias, the next thing we need to clear up is, are the branches and provinces two different things ?

by The Great Aukster Mon 30 Mar 2015, 2:04 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:No not exclusively Irish derbies - any game involving their home branch. A simple explanation would be that they don't allow it to ensure some idiot can't accuse them of any bias..

So the IRFU are saying there could be bias ?

I don't think they have said anything on the matter - have you a link?

LordDowlais wrote:Or because they know I might come on here and say it ?

I've no idea how much the IRFU track your posts LD, but if they do I'm sure they would take everything you say with the seriousness it deserves.

LordDowlais wrote:Why should John Lacey not be allowed to ref Munster games ? Because as Notch has already said, the province and the branch are two separate entities, or is this not true ?

If Owens is allowed to referee the Ospreys/Scarlets and Hodges allowed to referee the Blues with complete impartiality then plenty of posters would agree with you that Lacey should be allowed to referee Munster games. Perhaps that is one of your ideas the IRFU have not adopted yet?

by Guest Mon 30 Mar 2015, 2:10 pm

I'm fairly certain that the TMO's in wales are Welsh. TMO's do get calls wrong. I remember an Ulster TMO getting a call wrong, and I remember a Welsh TMO getting a call wrong. It happens, and I would like to see the use of TMO's cease altogether.
The TMO on Friday isn't at fault for not calling a red. That would be the ITALIAN ref, and yellow wasn't a ridiculous call. Let the citing commission sort it out.
At least the last 2 citing panels have been all Welsh, and the one that suspended McCloskey gave him a lengthy ban to teach him a lesson. That ruling was farcical, but you suck it up, and move on.
Ulster have been hammered with suspensions this season. It isn't a conspiracy against Ulster. It is poor discipline. But it also makes these nonsense claims of an Irish conspiracy what the are. A nonsense.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 30 Mar 2015, 2:10 pm

LordDowlais wrote:It seems that, the IRFU are admitting there could be bias, because they will not allow certain refs to referee certain games, so now that we can all agree that there is smoe level of bias, the next thing we need to clear up is, are the branches and provinces two different things ?

No we blydi can't!

by Pete330v2 Mon 30 Mar 2015, 2:54 pm

The thing is, when we get Neil Paterson, a ref from Northern Ireland with the accent to go with it, we're blown off the park. I know he's officially a Scottish ref as he's signed to the SRU but he's from here and you always feel he's being a little over zealous against us in case anyone might suggest any bias.

by MrsP Mon 30 Mar 2015, 3:04 pm

Are you saying that Welsh refs are biased?

by LordDowlais Mon 30 Mar 2015, 3:13 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:It seems that, the IRFU are admitting there could be bias, because they will not allow certain refs to referee certain games, so now that we can all agree that there is smoe level of bias, the next thing we need to clear up is, are the branches and provinces two different things ?

No we blydi can't!

Yes we can, because the IRFU do not let referees from a certain branch/province ref games from their own branch/province, so as to take away any bias, but that only works for the irish teams.

by MrsP Mon 30 Mar 2015, 3:21 pm

Or, to take away any accusation of potential bias?

That is not the same as actual bias.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 30 Mar 2015, 3:21 pm

Perceived bias. Not actual bias.

by LordDowlais Mon 30 Mar 2015, 3:23 pm

MrsP wrote:Or, to take away any accusation of potential bias?

That is not the same as actual bias.

Ok then, why can we not take that away from ALL games ?

by The Great Aukster Mon 30 Mar 2015, 6:13 pm

Is it fair that Paterson should seem to be biased against Ulster because he wants to make sure everyone knows he's not biased for them? This position was re-enforced by SS on another thread:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Do the WRU often use officials like Hodges in games involving their home region?

The regions are not like the provinces, we don't have regional refs. But for example Nigel Owens was born/raised and lives in the Scarlets region, and has been the red in Scarlets games if that is what you mean. Same with Tim Hayes, and James Jones. However our win ratio with them as the officials is rather poor, they tend to give 50-50 calls again us to avoid the cries of favouritism.

So to remove all form of bias from the game would require referees not only to be accountable to their home Union but also to declare everything that might in any way affect their judgement of the teams or players they will be officiating.

What about favourite colour, everyone has a certain individual preference, so should that be part of the declaration of bias?

by theshanker Mon 30 Mar 2015, 7:30 pm

I have heard today from a very reliable source that Olding's ACL repair from last year has gone. Looks like he will be out for a long time poor lad.

by quinsforever Mon 30 Mar 2015, 8:13 pm

just saw the clip of the nick williams incident. can understand why he only got yellow as the, but it really should have been red. there was clear intention in how he aimed his forearm and elbow at patchell. no-one charges into a ruck forearm first. ever.

suspect he will get a length ban.

citing of a sin-binned offence means the citing commissioner thought it should have been red. doubt anyone will disagree. 10 week ban i reckon, if not more.

did i also hear rumours he's coming to Quins?

by Guest Mon 30 Mar 2015, 8:16 pm

Just a rumour at this point, Quins. Hopefully true.

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 30 Mar 2015, 8:17 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Is it fair that Paterson should seem to be biased against Ulster because he wants to make sure everyone knows he's not biased for them? This position was re-enforced by SS on another thread:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Do the WRU often use officials like Hodges in games involving their home region?

The regions are not like the provinces, we don't have regional refs. But for example Nigel Owens was born/raised and lives in the Scarlets region, and has been the red in Scarlets games if that is what you mean. Same with Tim Hayes, and James Jones. However our win ratio with them as the officials is rather poor, they tend to give 50-50 calls again us to avoid the cries of favouritism.

So to remove all form of bias from the game would require referees not only to be accountable to their home Union but also to declare everything that might in any way affect their judgement of the teams or players they will be officiating.

What about favourite colour, everyone has a certain individual preference, so should that be part of the declaration of bias?

Wasn't that the same thread where we all came to an agreement on them naming Officiating Teams at the start of the season, ccomorised of one official from each nation (ref 2xLinesmen, TMO), rotating who is the ref etc?

by Guest Mon 30 Mar 2015, 8:17 pm

theshanker wrote:I have heard today from a very reliable source that Olding's ACL repair from last year has gone. Looks like he will be out for a long time poor lad.

Gutted for Olding. Hopefully he can make a full recovery.

by quinsforever Mon 30 Mar 2015, 9:32 pm

does the pro12 get many english of french refs, tjs and tmos?

by The Great Aukster Mon 30 Mar 2015, 10:07 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Is it fair that Paterson should seem to be biased against Ulster because he wants to make sure everyone knows he's not biased for them? This position was re-enforced by SS on another thread:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Do the WRU often use officials like Hodges in games involving their home region?

The regions are not like the provinces, we don't have regional refs. But for example Nigel Owens was born/raised and lives in the Scarlets region, and has been the red in Scarlets games if that is what you mean. Same with Tim Hayes, and James Jones. However our win ratio with them as the officials is rather poor, they tend to give 50-50 calls again us to avoid the cries of favouritism.

So to remove all form of bias from the game would require referees not only to be accountable to their home Union but also to declare everything that might in any way affect their judgement of the teams or players they will be officiating.

What about favourite colour, everyone has a certain individual preference, so should that be part of the declaration of bias?

Wasn't that the same thread where we all came to an agreement on them naming Officiating Teams at the start of the season, ccomorised of one official from each nation (ref 2xLinesmen, TMO), rotating who is the ref etc?

Yes, and a good idea it was (aside from the expense). Don't think even that would appease the unappeasable though!

by LordDowlais Tue 31 Mar 2015, 8:26 am

The Great Aukster wrote:Yes, and a good idea it was (aside from the expense). Don't think even that would appease the unappeasable though!.

It would appease me. kiss

by **George Carlin** Tue 31 Mar 2015, 11:44 am

Jesus - this thread is quite angry now - mods are now looking over it.
Can we all smoke the Reefer of Calm for a moment? Ulster vs Cardiff Blues - Page 6 Acigar10

Ulster vs Cardiff Blues - Page 6 Acigar10

by Guest Tue 31 Mar 2015, 11:49 am

It's all LD's fault angel

by LordDowlais Tue 31 Mar 2015, 12:21 pm

I'm not angry, not one bit. Very Happy

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 31 Mar 2015, 12:39 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I'm not angry, not one bit.

That'll be the reefer.

by LordDowlais Tue 31 Mar 2015, 12:43 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I'm not angry, not one bit.

That'll be the reefer.

by Guest Tue 31 Mar 2015, 12:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I'm not angry, not one bit.

And neither am I furious

by The Great Aukster Tue 31 Mar 2015, 1:01 pm

If you say you're angry do you get a little toke of that number?

I'm absolutely seething.

BTW George - you're the one that's swearing, are you sure you're on the right thread?

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 31 Mar 2015, 1:18 pm

Talking about reefers, I had a passed a drugs test at work the other day, Im going to have serious words with my dealer about that furious

by The Great Aukster Tue 31 Mar 2015, 1:30 pm

SS - surely that's the sort of dealer you want! I'd keep it quiet or there will be a few cyclists who will take him off your hands.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 31 Mar 2015, 1:34 pm

GA - I think there are still a fair few cyclists who are somehow staying a step ahead of the testers sadly. Just because they come out and say that they are all squeaky clean means naff all.

by **Notch** Tue 31 Mar 2015, 2:45 pm

quinsforever wrote:did i also hear rumours he's coming to Quins?

He's your problem now!

I only wish I had 'a washing hands of' emoticon.

by MrsP Tue 31 Mar 2015, 4:50 pm

This thread is confusing.

Headscratch

Did something happen and then get removed or has George had a wee turn?

by The Great Aukster Tue 31 Mar 2015, 5:37 pm

Mrs P - please reefer above.

George has been killing weeds by smoking - or else he's been taking lessons in getting things out of proportion from Wayne Barnes. He's disappeared now so it might be a case for the sighting commission.

by MrsP Tue 31 Mar 2015, 5:46 pm

I'm not convinced the citing commisoner is the man for this job!

White coat required?

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