Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[McLaren]

First topic message reminder :

Super

I saw the first two sets and a bit, then went out to get dinner. Wish I had stuck around to watch it.

[lorus59]

Why not get Jeremy Clarkson to give the motivation speech? He has the spare time now and we all know how much he loves golf.

[super_realist]

Navy, the argument was originally that winning a singular Rugby World Cup wasn't an especially massive achievement in light of the real lack of depth and strength within it, so that was the basis for excluding Clive Woodward from any Ryder Cup role, that and half the team not knowing or caring who he is, not to mention it being yonks ago.

I don't think that's too unreasonable.

Still can't agree with this. The fact is that no matter how weak you consider the RWC, England were always going to be 3rd or 4th favourites behind the southern hemisphere sides - and don't forget it was in Australia so knocking down further their chances. Throw in at least one of France, Ireland and Wales - each of which could challenge in a RWC with a fair wind and a particularly strong team.

Woodward WAS inspirational to them. OK at the end of the day it was the 15 (or squad of 20 odd or whatever) that produced the goods - but it was still a MASSIVE achievement and the coach's contribution surely cannot be ignored. Woodward also has quite a pedigree in terms of being "inspirational" (whatever that means). Fergie was a success in being and inspirational speaker to previous RC teams ... not sure why to be honest as all he was, was a successful football manager and wine drinker

I also don't buy this "the team wouldn't know him" idea. Certainly the British members of the team would know him. So to would French and Italian players if they feature in the team. Germans, Scandinavian and Spanish may not be so familiar, but does that really matter? If someone is inspirational as a speaker and motivator, they could be Outer Mongolian for all it matters (is there an Inner Mongolia?)

Woodward would fit the bill perfectly IMO should such a speaker be needed. Personally I'm not a fan of this sort of business approach to a sporting event - but remember .. this whole conversation started with Slippy G being mooted as  a potential speaker (I'm still not convinced that wasn't a joke anyway)

A "massive" achievement if you're a fan of Rugby, specifically English Rugby, if you aren't, then who cares and he could quite easily be anyone as far as they are concerned. I guarantee if you polled 1000 Europeans from Ryder Cup representation countries to name the top 10 inspirational figures in sport from a coach point of view, virtually none would mention Woodward, if they'd even heard of them. By the way, being French, Italian or even British doesn't guarantee you know who someone is when that achievement came WAYYYYY back in 2003.
I get what you're saying that if you are motivational then it doesn't matter who you are or where you come from, however, if someone is being touted as being motivational and their credentials are a solitary rugby world cup win that took place 13 years prior to the event, then I can't see them caring too much especially when Woodward appears to be fairly aloof, smug and self important, polarising opinion.

The problem specifically, is not necessarily Woodward, but perhaps more to do with Rugby, most people don't care about it and I can't see Woodward (because he's rugby) being any more inspirational to the Europeans than a snooker, darts, bowls, cricket or water polo coach would be.

[pedro]

America could do worse than get Jurgen Klinsman instead of the turgid old veterans, he's virtually American these days (plus his wife is called Debbie "9" Chin)

But he didn't count on Lord Bendtner. Hat trick against USA.

[McLaren]

Super

Are you sure that is the nickname of Klinsman's wife, I just looked her up and she isn't fat at all?

[super_realist]

I didn't say she was fat Mac, her surname is CHIN.

[pedro]

Klinsi and Chinsi?

[navyblueshorts]

Navy, the argument was originally that winning a singular Rugby World Cup wasn't an especially massive achievement in light of the real lack of depth and strength within it, so that was the basis for excluding Clive Woodward from any Ryder Cup role, that and half the team not knowing or caring who he is, not to mention it being yonks ago.

I don't think that's too unreasonable.

Still can't agree with this. The fact is that no matter how weak you consider the RWC, England were always going to be 3rd or 4th favourites behind the southern hemisphere sides - and don't forget it was in Australia so knocking down further their chances. Throw in at least one of France, Ireland and Wales - each of which could challenge in a RWC with a fair wind and a particularly strong team.

Woodward WAS inspirational to them. OK at the end of the day it was the 15 (or squad of 20 odd or whatever) that produced the goods - but it was still a MASSIVE achievement and the coach's contribution surely cannot be ignored. Woodward also has quite a pedigree in terms of being "inspirational" (whatever that means). Fergie was a success in being and inspirational speaker to previous RC teams ... not sure why to be honest as all he was, was a successful football manager and wine drinker

I also don't buy this "the team wouldn't know him" idea. Certainly the British members of the team would know him. So to would French and Italian players if they feature in the team. Germans, Scandinavian and Spanish may not be so familiar, but does that really matter? If someone is inspirational as a speaker and motivator, they could be Outer Mongolian for all it matters (is there an Inner Mongolia?)

Woodward would fit the bill perfectly IMO should such a speaker be needed. Personally I'm not a fan of this sort of business approach to a sporting event - but remember .. this whole conversation started with Slippy G being mooted as  a potential speaker (I'm still not convinced that wasn't a joke anyway)

A "massive" achievement if you're a fan of Rugby, specifically English Rugby, if you aren't, then who cares and he could quite easily be anyone as far as they are concerned. I guarantee if you polled 1000 Europeans from Ryder Cup representation countries to name the top 10 inspirational figures in sport from a coach point of view, virtually none would mention Woodward, if they'd even heard of them. By the way, being French, Italian or even British doesn't guarantee you know who someone is when that achievement came WAYYYYY back in 2003.
I get what you're saying that if you are motivational then it doesn't matter who you are or where you come from, however, if someone is being touted as being motivational and their credentials are a solitary rugby world cup win that took place 13 years prior to the event, then I can't see them caring too much especially when Woodward appears to be fairly aloof, smug and self important, polarising opinion.

The problem specifically, is not necessarily Woodward, but perhaps more to do with Rugby, most people don't care about it and I can't see Woodward (because he's rugby) being any more inspirational to the Europeans than a snooker, darts, bowls, cricket or water polo coach would be.

So, your suggestion(s) would be?

[super_realist]

Well, how about someone who has achieved something relatively recently for a start in a sport that most people know something about?

Dave Brailsford for instance, perhaps even Bradley Wiggins, Alex Ferguson, Ivan Lendl, Gaurdiola or even a past Captain like Olazabal

[JAS]

The thing with Woodward is that it wasn't just a World Cup, England won the 6 nations title 3 times during his tenure but most of his reign centered around building and peaking for the RWC in 2003. Even the most anti English would concede that his tenure was extremely successful.

Having said that, his Lions tour didn't produce the goods (seldom do in NZ) and he did have a stab at being a director of football at So'ton which clearly didn't work out so maybe his inspirational ness has a) ran out and/or b) doesn't extend outside rugby.

[super_realist]

The thing with Woodward is that it wasn't just a World Cup, England won the 6 nations title 3 times during his tenure but most of his reign centered around building and peaking for the RWC in 2003. Even the most anti English would concede that his tenure was extremely successful.

Having said that, his Lions tour didn't produce the goods (seldom do in NZ) and he did have a stab at being a director of football at So'ton which clearly didn't work out so maybe his inspirational ness has a) ran out and/or b) doesn't extend outside rugby.

Which no one will remember. It was successful, no doubt, but I just can't seeing someones achievements from such a long time ago in a minority sport as being inspirational.
Would the Brits be inspired by the Danish handball coach? Doubt it.

[JAS]

I can see Jacklin going along for the ride, back to where he won his US Open

[JAS]

The thing with Woodward is that it wasn't just a World Cup, England won the 6 nations title 3 times during his tenure but most of his reign centered around building and peaking for the RWC in 2003. Even the most anti English would concede that his tenure was extremely successful.

Having said that, his Lions tour didn't produce the goods (seldom do in NZ) and he did have a stab at being a director of football at So'ton which clearly didn't work out so maybe his inspirational ness has a) ran out and/or b) doesn't extend outside rugby.

Which no one will remember. It was successful, no doubt, but I just can't seeing someones achievements from such a long time ago in a minority sport as being inspirational.
Would the Brits be inspired by the Danish handball coach? Doubt it.

That would depend on how good a motivational speaker he/she was. Have Denmark won the world handball championship more than once...and was it more recent than 2003?? :-p

[super_realist]

I don't know, but that's just it. Half the Ryder Cup would be presented with Woodward and   would just ask "Who?"

You need something inspirational which people know about, not something niche and regional like Rugby.

"Hi, I'm Clive Woodward, I masterminded England to win a "world" cup in 2003"

"Is that the best we can do" would be an appropriate response.

[westisbest]

C'mon now super, would'nt say Rugby is a minority sport.

You do make a good point re Olazabal.

If they are going to have a motivational speaker, then a past winning capatain of golf would be ideal.

[Bob_the_Job]

I recently attended a talk given by Chris Hoy - he was quite impressive when recounting his career and how he focused on certain things and the mantras he adopted when waiting to compete.

[super_realist]

C'mon now super, would'nt say Rugby is a minority sport.

You do make a good point re Olazabal.

If they are going to have a motivational speaker, then a past winning capatain of golf would be ideal.

It's a completely minority sport when half the team comes from mainland Europe, the Spaniards, Germans and Scandinavians have zero interest in it.

It's as irrelevant to them as Cricket, Snooker or Darts are, and I wouldn't expect anyone to mention Stephen Hendry or Phil Taylor as motivational  speakers and they've both been a LOT more successful than Woodworm.

I'd even suggest Poulter or Garcia as being able to rouse the players, plus someone like Donald who just missed out last year was incredibly supportive even though massively disappointed not to be picked. There's scope for people like that to be involved.
Outside "motivation" isn't necessarily important, and especially that of something from a bygone era.

[westisbest]

Its played world wide. May not be as popular in some countries it is played in.

That to me says it is not a minority.

Think it is growing in places like Spain, Germany, Croatia.
They have decent crowds from what I have seen. Certainly more than zero interest.

We will agaree to disagree on that one.

[super_realist]

Crucially though, it isn't really played in European golf hotspots where half the team comes from.
The point being Woodward would be unknown to many, least of all because his "achievement" was such a long time ago.

[pedro]

Agree, rubgy is a minority sport in most of Europe. Most people couldn't even tell the difference btw rugby and American football. Get over it.

[super_realist]

Pick a sport that is played in Europe (e.g handball) but not here and consider whether the British players would find any speech about that inspirational, especially if the person was a self indulgent smuggard whose last "achievement" was back in 2003.

Would they care what he had to say? Very much doubt it.

[pedro]

World wide (Europe wide) Ice hockey is far bigger than rugby. What about the Swedish ice hockey coach giving an inspirational speech about when they defeated arch rivals Finland for the olympic gold in '06?

[super_realist]

How about Bob Nudd, World Champion angler 4 times, he can wax lyrical about his 1999 winning performance.

[JAS]

Oh dear now we're just getting silly, somebody will suggest somebody like Stevie Gerrard next....oh wait :-)

[McLaren]

Changing the subject, the german wings crash has taken a rather sinister turn. Seems the co pilot deliberately sent the plane into the mountainside.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/mar/26/germanwings-plane-crash-investigation-press-conference-live-updates-4u9525

[super_realist]

Selfish bastard

[navyblueshorts]

Agree, rubgy is a minority sport in most of Europe. Most people couldn't even tell the difference btw rugby and American football. Get over it.

Nonsense and you know it.

[navyblueshorts]

Its played world wide. May not be as popular in some countries it is played in.

That to me says it is not a minority.

Think it is growing in places like Spain, Germany, Croatia.
They have decent crowds from what I have seen. Certainly more than zero interest.

We will agaree to disagree on that one.

Crucially though, it isn't really played in European golf hotspots where half the team comes from.
The point being Woodward would be unknown to many, least of all because his "achievement" was such a long time ago.

You won't get S_R to acknowledge he might not be the All-Seeing Eye on this west. May as well give it up.

Of your earlier suggestions S_R, I could level a "minority" accusation just as easily as you and/or they aren't team sports. I think your suggestion that Woodward wouldn't be a decent candidate because arguably his biggest achievement was in 2003 is baloney. The next RC squad are so young they don't remember 12 years back??? Seriously? They're also sportsmen and, as such, almost certainly follow other sports. Olazabal? Maybe, but why's he so special? Ballesteros died in 2011 - not sure Ole would need to say a lot to get his team up for 2012; all of them desperately wanted the win.

Anyway. If the players can't get up for it of their own accord, they shouldn't be there.

[pedro]

Agree, rubgy is a minority sport in most of Europe. Most people couldn't even tell the difference btw rugby and American football. Get over it.

Nonsense and you know it.

If you ever happen to travel elsewhere than Torremolinos I suggest you ask.

[super_realist]

Its played world wide. May not be as popular in some countries it is played in.

That to me says it is not a minority.

Think it is growing in places like Spain, Germany, Croatia.
They have decent crowds from what I have seen. Certainly more than zero interest.

We will agaree to disagree on that one.

Crucially though, it isn't really played in European golf hotspots where half the team comes from.
The point being Woodward would be unknown to many, least of all because his "achievement" was such a long time ago.

You won't get S_R to acknowledge he might not be the All-Seeing Eye on this west. May as well give it up.

Of your earlier suggestions S_R, I could level a "minority" accusation just as easily as you and/or they aren't team sports. I think your suggestion that Woodward wouldn't be a decent candidate because arguably his biggest achievement was in 2003 is baloney. The next RC squad are so young they don't remember 12 years back??? Seriously? They're also sportsmen and, as such, almost certainly follow other sports. Olazabal? Maybe, but why's he so special? Ballesteros died in 2011 - not sure Ole would need to say a lot to get his team up for 2012; all of them desperately wanted the win.

Anyway. If the players can't get up for it of their own accord, they shouldn't be there.

The European players arguably wouldn't know who Woodward 2003 was, that was my point. THe Brits obviously would.
I bet if you asked Kaymer, Dubuisson, Garcia, Stenson etc they might have heard of him, but I doubt they'd know anything about him.

As for "they're all sportsmen, so almost certainly follow other sports"

We're all sportsmen, but I don't follow all other sports, some but not Rugby (or handball) to any extent. Why would I? Why would they? You follow what you are interested in, not simply because you are involved in one aspect of it. Being a golfer, doesn't mean you follow F1, Tennis, Cricket etc anymore than the next man.

[pedro]

So, one of the guys left boy band One Direction.




Apparantly he wanted to go another direction.

[JAS]

Worlds biggest Band? Band?? They're no effin band, they're a collection of silly boys some of whom can sing a wee bit better than average. Can't help thinking there is something intrinsically wrong with society when no marks like 1D get hyped senseless, hundreds of thousands of sheepish idiots believe the hype and before you know it, bingo!! Biggest band in the world...vomit inducing, it really is.

The one I feel sorry for is the burd, she's gonna get the blame of splitting the 'band' up. Jeesus, this crap isn't even news, why is it in the news and why am I even bothering to comment on it??

[super_realist]

They're no different from any johnny cum lately, fly by night dross that has come and gone over the years.

I've never heard a "note" of what they've done, but as bad as it presumably is, I quite like the fact it does exist. Music that isn't mass consumption is usually the best, and without drivel like One Dimension, it dilutes the good stuff.

[raycastleunited]

Oh dear  now we're just getting silly, somebody will suggest somebody like Stevie Gerrard next....oh wait :-)

Surprised nobody has suggested the inspirational team player Kevin Pietersen

[raycastleunited]

World wide (Europe wide) Ice hockey is far bigger than rugby. What about the Swedish ice hockey coach giving an inspirational speech about when they defeated arch rivals Finland for the olympic gold in '06?

Not sure about that. Does ice hockey fill 80,000 seat stadiums in Finland and Sweden?

[raycastleunited]

So, one of the guys left boy band One Direction.





Apparantly he wanted to go another direction.

Apparently #cutforzayn has been trending on twitter. Frightening really that people (well young women really) consider self-harm as a tactic to get what they want.

[super_realist]

World wide (Europe wide) Ice hockey is far bigger than rugby. What about the Swedish ice hockey coach giving an inspirational speech about when they defeated arch rivals Finland for the olympic gold in '06?

Not sure about that. Does ice hockey fill 80,000 seat stadiums in Finland and Sweden?

Don't they fill Crack Park in Oirland with some starchy sack chucking event with 8k people? Maybe we can get the manager of whatever that is to inspire the team.

[westisbest]

World wide (Europe wide) Ice hockey is far bigger than rugby. What about the Swedish ice hockey coach giving an inspirational speech about when they defeated arch rivals Finland for the olympic gold in '06?

Not sure about that. Does ice hockey fill 80,000 seat stadiums in Finland and Sweden?

Don't they fill Crack Park in Oirland with some starchy sack chucking event with 8k people? Maybe we can get the manager of whatever that is to inspire the team.

Its Croke Park, oh wait silly me, you were trying to be funny.

[navyblueshorts]

So, one of the guys left boy band One Direction.





Apparantly he wanted to go another direction.

Apparently #cutforzayn has been trending on twitter. Frightening really that people (well young women really) consider self-harm as a tactic to get what they want.

Certainly lots of cretins about, that's for sure.

[navyblueshorts]

Hmm. Nike show their class again I see:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/32051389

[incontinentia]

World wide (Europe wide) Ice hockey is far bigger than rugby. What about the Swedish ice hockey coach giving an inspirational speech about when they defeated arch rivals Finland for the olympic gold in '06?

Not sure about that. Does ice hockey fill 80,000 seat stadiums in Finland and Sweden?

Don't they fill Crack Park in Oirland with some starchy sack chucking event with 8k people? Maybe we can get the manager of whatever that is to inspire the team.

You should go for the Top Gear gig with quips like that super, Clarkson 2.0

[super_realist]

Hmm. Nike show their class again I see:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/32051389

I've always thought Nike a fairly crud brand. Never saw the attraction of them, they don't seem to do anything very well, but somehow have a lofty position in sportsgear.

[puligny]

Nick Faldo and Russell Brand? Oh and Mark James!
Seriously it's too far away, and better not trumpeted in advance. If you recall McGinley was pretty narked that SAF couldn't keep his counsel and told the press ahead of time. Nearly cost him the gig?

[Roller_Coaster]

I can't be bothered finding the snippets on how Tom Ince was an idiot for not going to Inter (or how he wasn't etc) but there's (what I thought) was a mildly interesting related story on the Beeb about Ryan Gould who went from a Scottish side to Portugal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32069992

I think it would benefit more players to do it (although I suspect on Portuguese 606 there would be ire about foreign imports!)

[pedro]

World wide (Europe wide) Ice hockey is far bigger than rugby. What about the Swedish ice hockey coach giving an inspirational speech about when they defeated arch rivals Finland for the olympic gold in '06?

Not sure about that. Does ice hockey fill 80,000 seat stadiums in Finland and Sweden?

If physically possible I'm sure they could.

they do it occasionally in Germany:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ice_hockey_games_with_highest_attendance

and by looking here, you'll see that attendance figures in a dozen European ice hockey leagues top 1-2m/year. You'll only find comparable rugby figures in UK/France.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_professional_sports_leagues

[super_realist]

I can't be bothered finding the snippets on how Tom Ince was an idiot for not going to Inter (or how he wasn't etc) but there's (what I thought) was a mildly interesting related story on the Beeb about Ryan Gould who went from a Scottish side to Portugal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32069992

I think it would benefit more players to do it (although I suspect on Portuguese 606 there would be ire about foreign imports!)

He's an excellent player that lad, incredibly skillful with superb vision. Did the right thing, predictably struggled in the first few months, has started to make a few appearances in cup games and a few games in the league. Made some really nice touches in some goals for Sporting.

Even if he failed though, credit to him for trying, there will always be a rubbish team willing to take him in the UK, too bad the likes of Ince don't have the balls to at least try before opting for a lifetime of mediocrity.

[Davie]

Friday night exclusive - hold the presses! Super actually has something good to say about a footballer!

It's OK though soon reverted to normal

As far as I understand it Ince never really had that chance that you say he didn't have the balls to take. He just wasn't good enough and ended up signing for Hull or someone like that. Not a lack of balls, just a lack of ability

[super_realist]

Looks like he had the option, but bottled it to get an "education" at a deadbeat team who fight relegation constantly. Well done Tom, superb confidence in your "ability". Hardly turned up any trees at Hull either, so not only did he not take the risk, but the "safe" option didn't work out either. Loser.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2694004/Thomas-Ince-I-turned-big-money-Inter-Milan-educated-Hull.html

[pedro]

He knew he would be a sub (at best) at Inter. So why not go somewhere where he'd have a better shot at playing regularly. He's 22 so his career is in front of him.

[super_realist]

He knew he would be a sub (at best) at Inter. So why not go somewhere where he'd have a better shot at playing regularly. He's 22 so his career is in front of him.

Do you think Gauld thought he'd walk into the Sporting team? He knew it was going to be a learning curve and something which could benefit his career longterm. What's wrong with being a sub, if you impress, then you get more starts.

The trouble with lots of footballer (Ince seemingly a good example) is they think they should be guaranteed a starting spot and guaranteed to play regularly and instant success, bit like those bell ends on X-Factor. Why should Ince? He's 22 and done nothing to suggest he is capable of being a regular pick, and as it turned out, he isn't good enough even at Hull. Sounds like he got his ego from his Dad "the Guv'nor"

However, I don't think it would have done his career the slightest bit of harm to have gone there for a year, experienced different football, culture etc and if it didn't suit him, I'm sure another deadbeat  relegation challenging team would still have come in for him. What's he learned this year? How not to get a game for one of the worst teams in the EPL?

He had nothing to lose, and everything to gain at Inter, but good old British mentality meant he couldn't be arsed trying.

[pedro]

I still think he thought there'd be better chances being a regular at Hull than at Inter. In hinesight it didn't work out, but at the time that's probably what he thought.

Plenty if young players sign sign with big clubs only to be left in oblivity. Then rather wait a few years and see what happens.

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