The Official *England's Passage to Paris 2016* Thread

[FootballLight]

First topic message reminder :

Sorry 24, I'm thinking of the World Cup again.

[Hammersmith harrier]

It is tiresome but people don't change their tune. Rooney ran the attacking from England yesterday, still getting criticism.

i wont go over rooney with you again dolph we've done it to death, your his number 1 fan and i am certainly not. it is nice to see the majority are now seeing what ive been saying for a while though.

It's odd, Man United fans in general seem to think he's a waste of space for club whilst everyone else seems to think he's unfairly criticised, massive generalisation but it does ring true.

[compelling and rich]

I wasn't using stats to justify Rooney's place in the team I was using them to ridicule your statement that he's only had one good game.

If you can't see why Rooney played/plays for England and Crouch didn't/doesn't then so be it.

feel free to name all the other games he's played well in this season. no where in my post did i say rooneys only ever played played one good game ever

[Hibbz]

Kerry Dixon would have bagged 54.5 (and maybe not been jailed) but unfortunately Peter Davenport would still be awaiting his first goal......

[compelling and rich]

It is tiresome but people don't change their tune. Rooney ran the attacking from England yesterday, still getting criticism.

i wont go over rooney with you again dolph we've done it to death, your his number 1 fan and i am certainly not. it is nice to see the majority are now seeing what ive been saying for a while though.

It's odd, Man United fans in general seem to think he's a waste of space for club whilst everyone else seems to think he's unfairly criticised, massive generalisation but it does ring true.

im fairly confident that i watch rooney more than the fans of other clubs, as i havent missed a united game in a long long time through one means or another. simply watching motd really doesn't really give you a idea of how he's been playing

[Hammersmith harrier]

It is tiresome but people don't change their tune. Rooney ran the attacking from England yesterday, still getting criticism.

i wont go over rooney with you again dolph we've done it to death, your his number 1 fan and i am certainly not. it is nice to see the majority are now seeing what ive been saying for a while though.

It's odd, Man United fans in general seem to think he's a waste of space for club whilst everyone else seems to think he's unfairly criticised, massive generalisation but it does ring true.

im fairly confident that i watch rooney more than the fans of other clubs, as i havent missed a united game in a long long time through one means or another. simply watching motd really doesn't really give you a idea of how he's been playing

This has been my main gripe with it and it does come down to not actually watching him play. The televised games I can understand but what are people judging his Saturday 3pm form on because they surely aren't watching the games if their own team is also playing.

[Hibbz]

It is tiresome but people don't change their tune. Rooney ran the attacking from England yesterday, still getting criticism.

i wont go over rooney with you again dolph we've done it to death, your his number 1 fan and i am certainly not. it is nice to see the majority are now seeing what ive been saying for a while though.

It's odd, Man United fans in general seem to think he's a waste of space for club whilst everyone else seems to think he's unfairly criticised, massive generalisation but it does ring true.

im fairly confident that i watch rooney more than the fans of other clubs, as i havent missed a united game in a long long time through one means or another. simply watching motd really doesn't really give you a idea of how he's been playing

You said he'd had one good game and you'd missed it. Would you like to attach time scales now? Since last week, last year, last decade?

The man who's job it is to decide who plays and who doesn't clearly disagrees with you. Both for England and Man Utd.

Like I say I barely watch football I just feel someone who's done fantastically for so long deserves a little more credance for his ability.

Besides which you have also suggested Peter Crouch is as good a player as Rooney so I think your opinion is tainted.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It is tiresome but people don't change their tune. Rooney ran the attacking from England yesterday, still getting criticism.

i wont go over rooney with you again dolph we've done it to death, your his number 1 fan and i am certainly not. it is nice to see the majority are now seeing what ive been saying for a while though.

I'm not his number one fan, I just see his worth and also have no ridiculous game to play with this. I see his faults and his positives, there are a few on here who don't care to discuss the good and its no surprise to me to see yourself and Duty just ignoring his play last night.

It is much aligned with how people view England. England win a game, play well, this part of the forum is quieter and discussion has only real come to life cos some of us are annoyed with fans who do nothing but moan.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It is tiresome but people don't change their tune. Rooney ran the attacking from England yesterday, still getting criticism.

i wont go over rooney with you again dolph we've done it to death, your his number 1 fan and i am certainly not. it is nice to see the majority are now seeing what ive been saying for a while though.

It's odd, Man United fans in general seem to think he's a waste of space for club whilst everyone else seems to think he's unfairly criticised, massive generalisation but it does ring true.

im fairly confident that i watch rooney more than the fans of other clubs, as i havent missed a united game in a long long time through one means or another. simply watching motd really doesn't really give you a idea of how he's been playing

This has been my main gripe with it and it does come down to not actually watching him play. The televised games I can understand but what are people judging his Saturday 3pm form on because they surely aren't watching the games if their own team is also playing.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but you need to get your heads out of the sand of your own arguments. Firstly, Man United fans have got a bitterness towards him, especially on the internet. Secondly, you're nearly always on f**king TV and even when you're not its often when West Ham are not playing so I generally watch Man United.

I generally don't trust either of your opinions on how he plays now because you wouldn't compliment his performance regardless. Nor would you give him any of the slack that the rest of your team seems to get.

[compelling and rich]

It is tiresome but people don't change their tune. Rooney ran the attacking from England yesterday, still getting criticism.

i wont go over rooney with you again dolph we've done it to death, your his number 1 fan and i am certainly not. it is nice to see the majority are now seeing what ive been saying for a while though.

It's odd, Man United fans in general seem to think he's a waste of space for club whilst everyone else seems to think he's unfairly criticised, massive generalisation but it does ring true.

im fairly confident that i watch rooney more than the fans of other clubs, as i havent missed a united game in a long long time through one means or another. simply watching motd really doesn't really give you a idea of how he's been playing

This has been my main gripe with it and it does come down to not actually watching him play. The televised games I can understand but what are people judging his Saturday 3pm form on because they surely aren't watching the games if their own team is also playing.

especially considering he's picked up the great knack over the latter part of his career and chipping in with the odd goal here (lots pens and tap ins) and there while playing awful.

from motd he would appear to have done alright

[compelling and rich]

It is tiresome but people don't change their tune. Rooney ran the attacking from England yesterday, still getting criticism.

i wont go over rooney with you again dolph we've done it to death, your his number 1 fan and i am certainly not. it is nice to see the majority are now seeing what ive been saying for a while though.

It's odd, Man United fans in general seem to think he's a waste of space for club whilst everyone else seems to think he's unfairly criticised, massive generalisation but it does ring true.

im fairly confident that i watch rooney more than the fans of other clubs, as i havent missed a united game in a long long time through one means or another. simply watching motd really doesn't really give you a idea of how he's been playing

This has been my main gripe with it and it does come down to not actually watching him play. The televised games I can understand but what are people judging his Saturday 3pm form on because they surely aren't watching the games if their own team is also playing.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but you need to get your heads out of the sand of your own arguments. Firstly, Man United fans have got a bitterness towards him, especially on the internet. Secondly, you're nearly always on f**king TV and even when you're not its often when West Ham are not playing so I generally watch Man United.

I generally don't trust either of your opinions on how he plays now because you wouldn't compliment his performance regardless. Nor would you give him any of the slack that the rest of your team seems to get.

you dont need to listen to us, pretty much everbody who's seen him play in a united shirt this season knows he's been sh!te

[Hammersmith harrier]

He's been crap for the best part of 18 months now so I really do not understand how anyone can say he's been decent when the only good game I remember him having this calender year was against Tottenham back in April.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

He aint been great this season, I can agree with you there, but I don't think he's "done" by any means and I do think he was brilliant last night. Equally, he got that very important goal for you in the CL and I generally think its hard to look back at this season and enjoy the attacking contribution of anyone in a Man United shirt.

Harsh on him last season though, I think he did a very good job for the team and played fine. Not superb, but I really dont feel like anyone but De Gea came out of last season well, spells for Mata, Carrick and Herrera, whilst this season it feels like Smalling and Shaw are the only too who have impressed.

[Duty281]

It is tiresome but people don't change their tune. Rooney ran the attacking from England yesterday, still getting criticism.

i wont go over rooney with you again dolph we've done it to death, your his number 1 fan and i am certainly not. it is nice to see the majority are now seeing what ive been saying for a while though.

I'm not his number one fan, I just see his worth and also have no ridiculous game to play with this. I see his faults and his positives, there are a few on here who don't care to discuss the good and its no surprise to me to see yourself and Duty just ignoring his play last night.

It is much aligned with how people view England. England win a game, play well, this part of the forum is quieter and discussion has only real come to life cos some of us are annoyed with fans who do nothing but moan.

I only saw the first half of the game, he was pretty average during that. Maybe he improved in the second, but I didn't see it.

And as my posting history can attest, I'm normally quite positive about England and its football team.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Indeed, but Rooney right now is basically just "well hes the worst".

The second part didnt apply to you, i'd be insane to do so!

[compelling and rich]

considering the relative talents of each player i think Ashley young has out performed Rooney under lvg, as has fellaini. and thats saying something. perhaps its simply two polar opposite expectation levels. two have over performed and one under. fellaini has played very well of late when given the chance and ashley young had a cracking end of last season.

i do agree that attacking wise we have been poor under lvg, and a few take criticism for that. but when we are struggling so bad we look to the man whom the attack is built around, the club captain and most important part of the attack as the central striker. and he's been the worse player of the lot

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I think you look at the manager, because it seems to be tactical

[compelling and rich]

i would agree tactics aren't helping the attacking players but you cant blame lvg for rooneys touch being a mile away or his total lack of shots on goal. martial looked bright already under the same tactics and mata has been flying

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Mata flew a bit and Martial has looked a bit nothing after a good start. I just cant be having LVG, and I would go so far as to say you can blame him for Wayne not finding form. Play a poor system and a team with no spark and im not surprised Wayne is a bit off the pace, hes always been that type of player, he doesnt just have his form he finds it and it all comes with it.

[dummy_half]

I think Rooney gets a bit of over the top criticism, although he clearly is not without his faults (what has happened to his first touch over the last couple of years?). I think there are a few reasons for this:

1 - He has failed to live up to early expectations. He has been good to very good both at club and England level, but the teenager that burst on the scene for Everton and transferred to Man U and was the star of Euro 2004 looked like a potential world beater.

2 - He plays for Man U, so supporters of every other club hate him. However, he has also managed to ostracise a big chunk of the Man U following as well, with various transfer requests and pay demands especially at times when he hasn't been in great form.

3 - His recent form (last season and this) hasn't been much to write home about. As I mentioned earlier, his first touch is inconsistent and frequently poor, so while he still has the ability to make the great pass or score a wonder goal, he spends half the game losing the ball when receiving a simple pass. That he so often needs a couple of touches to bring the ball properly under control obviously does impact on the pace of England's play, in that runners either have to check or run offside.

[Duty281]

Looks like Roy will remain until 2018. We all happy with that? John, you must be delighted?

[Guest]

Wayne Rooney has been named England Player of the Year for 2015, retaining the title he won in 2014

[Duty281]

England are five months from European glory, and this thread has gone somewhat quiet.

Friendlies are being lined up against Australia and Portugal, to be played up North - presumably after England dismantle them, it will be a gentle saunter to glory in Paris.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/02/england-australia-pre-euro-2016-friendly

[Guest]

Hart, Butland & Forster look immense, Rooney is fit & firing, Alli is looking superb & Vardy & Kane are on fire. I'm starting to believe

[compelling and rich]

im an eternal pessimist when it comes to england so fully expect rooney to get injured before the tournament and be unfit yet still get a spot over players in better form and we'll be exposed at the back as our defence is very poor these days (only smalling who's playing anywhere near decent enough to warrant a spot)

likes of henderson and milner do a job with good legs but you really need more technical ability next to them, they have it at liverpool with the likes of coutinho but not sure we have it in a england team. as good as barkley has been at points think his game is more legs and shooting than being brilliant technically. the midfield will be far too samey

with the wide options stalling in form (sterling barely getting a start currently, walcott well of the boil recently, ox no games) not sure we'd be better suited playing kane, vardy and rooney together. rooney being the front of a midfield diamond. kane and vardy much more suited to lead a line these days with there pace being a big threat

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Please don't put James Miller anywhere near the pitch in an England shirt please and thank you.

[compelling and rich]

Please don't put James Miller anywhere near the pitch in an England shirt please and thank you.

i wouldnt, just got a feeling roy will. think a carrick, henderson and barkley midfield will have a much better balance. plenty of legs to cover for carricks lack of

[spencerclarke]

How do we see the England squad going for the Euro's?

[Guest]

squad is pretty much set in stone. only 'outsider' who could possibly push for a place is drinkwater.

[Azzy]

God, I'd rather see Joey Barton in the England squad. Take the small fish out of the Leicester team and they'll be shown for what they are. Danny Simpson looks like Philipp Lahm at times, but he's been rubbish for a decade. Take Vardy, leave the rest. It's work ethic and determination that Leicester have, not ability.

Who makes way for Drinkwater in the squad - Delle Alli? Ross Barkley?

[Guest]

lol at that response. I said drinkwater was an outside chance, that was all. To say Leicester have no ability is quite frankly insulting & an embarrassing viewpoint. Of course, if drinkwater made it into the squad he would not replace alli or barkley, more likely the milner & lallana types, who have been awful.

hope you calm down soon

[Crimey]

https://www.606v2.com/t61917-england-euro-2016-squad

I speculated here not too long ago.

[spencerclarke]

Cheers crime, I'll have a look.

[Azzy]

lol at that response. I said drinkwater was an outside chance, that was all. To say Leicester have no ability is quite frankly insulting & an embarrassing viewpoint. Of course, if drinkwater made it into the squad he would not replace alli or barkley, more likely the milner & lallana types, who have been awful.

hope you calm down soon

Lallana, from my outsider's perspective, is only behind Coutinho in terms of performance this season. Every time I see him, I'm impressed.

With Leicester, clearly they have ability - but I was inferring (badly) a comparison to their rivals - Arsenal, City and Spurs. Each have teams with more quality and technical ability, but it's their lack of team work and graft that has left them trailing. Leicester have been immense defensively but I just can't see Roy entertaining thoughts of Drinkwater. He'd take Jack Wilshere 10% fit before DD.

[Duty281]

"We can play in a diamond, or with one centre forward, and the big thing is Kane and Vardy who have both been such a sensation," says Roy Hodgson.

Odds on one of Kane and Vardy being on the bench because of Rooney? 1/10000000.

No, no, the only prospect of seeing something special this summer in France from a U.K. side is if the Welsh conjure up something majestic.

"The Welshmen did good service in a garden where leeks did grow, wearing leeks in their Monmouth caps; which, as your majesty knows, to this hour is an honourable badge of the service; and I do believe your majesty takes no scorn to wear the leek upon Saint Tavy's day."

"I wear it for a memorable honour; for I am Welsh you know, good my countryman."

[Steffan]

We have the potential to qualify from the group although didn't think we looked that great in our last 3 outings

I'd take a loss to the mighty world beaters England for victories over Slovakia and Russia

My brother has a ticket for the Russia game......I don't......that sucks

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Rooney out injured for two months

You just know he'll come back unfit and out of form but still lead the line

Bloke has been unlucky with injuries in tournament years tbf

[Guest]

He was on the road to burnout, so the injury could be a blessing. Spin it the other way though & then I would agree, he could potentially end up being unfit, but he should be back for April, so still would have time.

As for United, it's a nightmare. Top 4 has gone & without Wayne, I doubt a Europa Leagie success is on the cards.

[Azzy]

Best news the England team have had for years. This means Hodgson will be forced to start with Harry Kane, and use the likes of Jamie Vardy, Daniel Sturridge and Danny Welbeck as well. Just as long as Theo Walcott gets nowhere near that position, I'll actually be optimistic for a change.

And with the proposal to play Rooney behind a striker, that could mean the likes of Barkley and Alli get a place in the starting line-up. It's really great for the future of this team.

[Duty281]

Please, Roy, please, please, please - don't pick Wayne. If my boundless faith has meant anything, on the incredible off-chance you've read my inane ramblings in the last four years, please don't pick him.

[Azzy]

Okay, serious topic. If Rooney doesn't make the Euros, who becomes England captain? Options as I see them:

Joe Hart
Chris Smalling
Phil Jagielka
Jordan Henderson
Michael Carrick
James Milner

That makes me dead inside. I'd rather he named Steve Bruce England captain and called him up to the squad. I'd give the armband to John Stones. Now.

[Duty281]

I think it would be Gary Cahill or Joe Hart.

[compelling and rich]

im an eternal pessimist when it comes to england so fully expect rooney to get injured before the tournament and be unfit yet still get a spot over players in better form and we'll be exposed at the back as our defence is very poor these days (only smalling who's playing anywhere near decent enough to warrant a spot)

likes of henderson and milner do a job with good legs but you really need more technical ability next to them, they have it at liverpool with the likes of coutinho but not sure we have it in a england team. as good as barkley has been at points think his game is more legs and shooting than being brilliant technically. the midfield will be far too samey

with the wide options stalling in form (sterling barely getting a start currently, walcott well of the boil recently, ox no games) not sure we'd be better suited playing kane, vardy and rooney together. rooney being the front of a midfield diamond. kane and vardy much more suited to lead a line these days with there pace being a big threat

and so it begins

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Ahhh, somehow this is a good thing. United have only looked good this season when Wayne has looked good.

Am I excited for Kane or Vardy up front for England? Nope. Sturridge is the only one with the class to do it, and Walcott could do it with a run of form, just cos his pace is so dangerous.

Think the squad needs him and will benefit from him. Two months out isn't too worrying at all, and could be very good for him in terms of England.

[Duty281]

Ahhh, somehow this is a good thing. United have only looked good this season when Wayne has looked good.

Am I excited for Kane or Vardy up front for England? Nope. Sturridge is the only one with the class to do it, and Walcott could do it with a run of form, just cos his pace is so dangerous.

Think the squad needs him and will benefit from him. Two months out isn't too worrying at all, and could be very good for him in terms of England.

That's because the main focus on the attack has been built around Wayne Rooney. United getting better, coinciding with Rooney's improvement, is because they have only been able to function as an attacking force when he plays well due to Van Gaal's over-reliance.

And - re the two months thing - wasn't a similar thing said before South Africa? Yay, he's injured but he'll be fully fit come the tournament, no risk of burnout - and we know how that turned out!

You also do a great disservice to Kane and Vardy - the two highest scorers in the league this season; have both played a great role in getting their respective clubs to be title-contenders; and have outscored Rooney by 9 and 12 goals respectively.

[Guest]

.Am I excited for Kane or Vardy up front for England? Nope. Sturridge is the only one with the class to do it.

Not sure why you have reservations over Kane anymore. As for thinking Sturridge has the class at that level, is pretty much nonsense. Sturridge proved in Brazil 14' he wasn't an England no.9, his finishing was truly diabolical in those three group games & don't try & deny it.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

.Am I excited for Kane or Vardy up front for England? Nope. Sturridge is the only one with the class to do it.

Not sure why you have reservations over Kane anymore. As for thinking Sturridge has the class at that level, is pretty much nonsense. Sturridge proved in Brazil 14' he wasn't an England no.9, his finishing was truly diabolical in those three group games & don't try & deny it.

Really? He was "diabolical" and that cant be denied? Nonsense, absolute nonsense. I have reservations about Kane's pace being any worry, and whilst he scores goals, I just dont think he will be a fearful proposition for top quality defenders. I don't think his link play is good enough and I don't think he'll get behind defences. I like his finishing, I like how he went to basics when he was out of form, but I'm still not a huge fan.

Sturridge has pace and can do things alone too. Big fan of Sturridge, think he is absolutely different level when he's fit.

[Hero]

Dolph, can you show us on the doll where the Spurs title challenge touched you?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Ahhh, somehow this is a good thing. United have only looked good this season when Wayne has looked good.

Am I excited for Kane or Vardy up front for England? Nope. Sturridge is the only one with the class to do it, and Walcott could do it with a run of form, just cos his pace is so dangerous.

Think the squad needs him and will benefit from him. Two months out isn't too worrying at all, and could be very good for him in terms of England.

That's because the main focus on the attack has been built around Wayne Rooney. United getting better, coinciding with Rooney's improvement, is because they have only been able to function as an attacking force when he plays well due to Van Gaal's over-reliance.

And - re the two months thing - wasn't a similar thing said before South Africa? Yay, he's injured but he'll be fully fit come the tournament, no risk of burnout - and we know how that turned out!

You also do a great disservice to Kane and Vardy - the two highest scorers in the league this season; have both played a great role in getting their respective clubs to be title-contenders; and have outscored Rooney by 9 and 12 goals respectively.

Always an excuse. We talk about excuses for Wayne, but theres excuses against him. Not even congratulated by many on here for being England's all time record scorer.

You cannot blame Rooney for United's woes. They havent been bad cos of Rooney, yet there have been games recently where Rooney's class have won them matches. They arent good, but big goals have still been scored by him in this awful system.

I probably do do the two a disservice, but I am not 100% on Vardy for England. I agree with some parts of what Azzy said, I'm not 100% sure everything Leicester will convert to England. I see why Drinkwater is getting talked up for England, for example, but Noble should be ahead based on years of form. Vardy is kind of similar, I don't think he immediately jumps to being amazing. He makes the squad, but not sure i'd play him unless we were playing a defensive formation and all on counter attack. Sterling, Vardy, Walcott against someone like Spain I would accept.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

You've not seen Kane play if you don't think his link play is good enough - one of the best aspects of his game. Think he's more than good enough to lead the line at the Euros

Vardy a good option off the bench

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Dolph, can you show us on the doll where the Spurs title challenge touched you?

The heart, Hero, and the wallet, obviously. Tottenham are the cartoon version of the conservative party.

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