Frampton wants Quigg in June/July

First topic message reminder :

Just had an email from Cyclone Promotions that's says they've been in negotiations for a while now, however it looks like the sticking point is that Matchroom want to promote the show by themselves, while Frampton and Barry want a joint promotion.

Matchroom have now made a public offer while ignoring requests for follow up meetings, and have now been told that if they won't come back around the table then Team Frampton will go elsewhere.

Derbymanc wrote:I took it as straight off Frampton wasn't getting any PPV cut from the interviews done, thought it was pretty clear that the 1.5mil was a flat fee for Frampton as Hearn/Quigg/Matchroom would then take all the risk. (Hence why I posted it when it was mentioned)

There are some wider questions that need to be asked from both sides though, especially from the fans (I'm pretty certain Quigg would be absolutely crucified if Bazza pulled this stunt and he said no.)

Frampton makes a few good points ie what if the PPV does massive numbers (I doubt it,) but then Quigg could say the same (what if it does tiny numbers.)

I still cannot see the justification for turning down 1.5 mil for a fight when you've been earning nowhere near that in the past. It's a shame the 2 promoters can't sit down again as I don't blame the fighters for this as the pair of them have stated they want the fight (pretty poor form of Framps to have sly digs at Quigg though as far as i'm aware he hasn't done it back)

"Pulled this stunt" if you're admitting it's a stunt then why should it matter if Frampton says no?

Frampton's the draw and a real title holder of the two but should just concede on everything just because it Hearn and Quigg?

Derbymanc wrote:I thought it come off really petty with it Milky, like a petulant child who doesn't like what he's heard so lashes out.

I was joking Derby, I agree with you, but as shah suggests he probably felt he had cause for grievance.

As I've stated Ranjit, put the shoe on the other foot and you'd all be tearing Quigg and Hearn a new one for not accepting.

'when did he last earn that amount'
'blatant duck for that money'

I've got no issues with Frampton saying anything about Hearn btw Shah (and Milky) but to take a sly dig at Quigg (who as far as i'm aware has shown nothing but respect, even when they tried to push him on ITV is petty.)

Are you saying the 1.5 mil was not a genuine offer then Ranjit?
It was a stunt to do it publicly but if that was the only way matchroom thought they could push discussion further then fair play to them. I haven't heard anything given yet as a major excuse as to why it's a bad offer.

EDIT: also if it's not just about the money how about Frampton and co get hold of Rigo, pretty certain he'd be happy for the bout and for it to be on ITV.

Think If we are honest we can pretty much lay the blame 50/50 on both sides...

Yes Hearn can be a knob but anyone who saw Barry on Sky week in week out remembers just as big a knob...

Think it will get made though....Not much money at 122 and lower generally as a rule..

Money talks!!!

If quigg wanted to maintain mutual respect he could have refused to take part in the stunt. No point trying to gain an unwarranted advantage then feeling slighted when your opponent reminds you exactly who is in what position.

Quick should fight Rigondeaux first seeing as he holds the joking part of Rigos title.

With regards the offer, it's obviously a good one but it's the forum they've used to convey it. Seeing as they've actually been in negotiations it's clearly there to make Frampton look worse with the public when he doesn't accept straight away.

If the channel that shows the fight has been a sticking point then one would presume that Hearn offering that sort of money would mean the fight being on sky.
Because no one knows how well the fight would do it would be very silly for Frampton not to take a cut of the PPV too. It would make no sense for him not to take that cut. He's the draw, Quigg isn't. Framptons the favourite and could potentially end up with less money after the fight than Quigg.

I like Mcguigan usually but if it's anything to do with Frampton then he's a prat of the highest order, he seems to have give Carl the idea he's bigger than he actually is. That isn't to say Frampton isn't the money spinner out of him and Quigg because he is but fighting in front of a raucous home ground can often be misleading.

Josh Warrington for instance is incredibly popular in Leeds and as a result it makes sense he fights there but outside of that fairly small demographic he isn't a big name. It's the same with Frampton big in Belfast but doesn't have the appeal of Mcguigan to crossover elsewhere.

I still found it petty and it looks (to me) like Framptons taken it too heart.

I still don't see a major issue with the offer unless he can make more money fighting someone else.

And as it stands we're all taking Barry's word that it was matchroom that wouldn't come to the table, he said the same thing about Rigo after the avalos fight.

Yes they both need a name...Quigg more than Frampo..

Derbymanc wrote:I still found it petty and it looks (to me) like Framptons taken it too heart.

I still don't see a major issue with the offer unless he can make more money fighting someone else.

And as it stands we're all taking Barry's word that it was matchroom that wouldn't come to the table, he said the same thing about Rigo after the avalos fight.

Hearn responded: “It is not about Cyclone Promotions and Matchroom Sport, it’s about Scott Quigg and Carl Frampton. If Cyclone Promotions really need their name on the poster and Buffer to mention them in the introductions, then no problem.

“They are right that negotiations have been on-going but they ended last week when we hit a brick wall.


http://www.matchroomboxing.com/news/hearn-offers-frampton-1-5million-for-unification-blockbuster/

So my question is who put up the brick wall, and what is it that's stopping it?

I know it's become the norm to blame matchroom but they've at least put a (massive) offer out there.

Derbymanc wrote:I still found it petty and it looks (to me) like Framptons taken it too heart.

I still don't see a major issue with the offer unless he can make more money fighting someone else.

And as it stands we're all taking Barry's word that it was matchroom that wouldn't come to the table, he said the same thing about Rigo after the avalos fight.

Hearn has admitted he's snubbed further meetings/negotiations (quote arrogantly in fact).

Where Haz, I've only seen what Shah put up.

It would help us all if we knew exactly what the sticking point is because at the moment we've got promoters saying they can't negotiate any longer (over what???) and one offering the other fighter a career high payday.

They also offered Khan 5m to fight brook two years ago. Khan hasn't earned 5 m in a fight to date but it was a ridiculous offer then and probably a barely credible one now.

Most reasonable people find a way around that brick wall through further negotiation, not start waving cheques at the camera with scant detail. I'd even go as far as to say, if you want to make a public offer make it a public contract. Offer up everything to scrutiny, every little deal every discussion, every clause on there and lets see which f*cker backpeddles quickest. I think Barry's overplaying his hand but its a strong hand and it looks like matchroom might not be able to make money or break even should the lions share go to frampton. So either Frampton should take a potential loss of ppv to save matchrooms blushes or Matchroom take the loss because their inability to make fights and tendency to cowpat is becoming as transparent as Warrens Sun column after someone has had the balls to leave his company.

Barry has a goldmine in Frampton....He was a goldmine once..

Perhaps he knows how quickly the rainbow can disappear

I got the impression, hearn's position was, negotiations had hit a brick wall... So they came up with this offer.

Of course, they could have made the offer to cyclone rather than going public, had they not been interested in stirring things up. Which let's face it they have. And in the promotions game there 'a no such thing as bad publicity. (With the possible exception if Jesus about ticket sales going badly... And even that publicise a stinker)

ShahenshahG wrote:
Most reasonable people find a way around that brick wall through further negotiation, not start waving cheques at the camera with scant detail. I'd even go as far as to say, if you want to make a public offer make it a public contract. Offer up everything to scrutiny, every little deal every discussion, every clause on there and lets see which f*cker backpeddles quickest. I think Barry's overplaying his hand but its a strong hand and it looks like matchroom might not be able to make money or break even should the lions share go to frampton. So either Frampton should take a potential loss of ppv to save matchrooms blushes or Matchroom take the loss because their inability to make fights and tendency to cowpat is becoming as transparent as Warrens Sun column after someone has had the balls to leave his company.

Would agree with nearly all of this Shah, it would have been better for Eddie to show the whole contract which is why I won't completely crucify Barry for not accepting BUT until we know what the sticking points are it's not really fair to shout it down as a publicity stunt with no basis.

I think the biggest problem could now be that Hearn has backed himself into a bit of a corner as Frampton knows he's worth 1.5mil to him now.

I just can't see the PPV doing more than that 1.5mil for both fighters. Framptons a bigger fish but it's still in a small pond and by belittling Quigg it could even turn some of the casuals off ordering it after being burnt before. Either way I don't think this fight is getting made soon and it may teach Matchroom a bit of a lesson on not selling PPV dates to sky with nowt on them.

What all of you have failed to mention is the original offer that Matchroom made was the winner gets 60% of PPV sales and the loser gets 40%. Hearn also said that an upside of ppv over a certain amount is a negotiable term, but those are the terms they stick by, either get 1.5 million or the first offer.

As much hate as Hearn is getting on here he is being totally upfront with what is going on, there are numerous interviews by IFL that he takes about this in great detail.

I have no idea who is the one being akward, but the fact that Hearn keeps his story straight throughtout the 4 interviews I have seen leads me to believe its cyclone.

They want to do a co-promotion yet won't stump up any money. They can't offer more than Hearn so they can't promote it themselves.... What does 'Co-Promotion' mean anyway, is it to get the name Cyclone Promotions out there?????

As good as it would be to be on ITV, its a dream, because the money just isn't there at the moment, I really do fail to see why Hearn is getting so much hate here, can someone point me in the direction of another perspective

The reason Hearn is getting hate is because of how he has gone about it. Why not do this while sat at the negotiating table instead of infront of the cameras? Because this is a PR stunt designed to get casual boxing fans accusing Frampton of ducking.

There has to be a reason Groves, Khan and now Frampton are all wary of working with Matchroom.

I think Quigg is a very real threat to Frampton.

While most make Frampton the favourite, this fight is in no way way shape or form a foregone conclusion.

hampo171 wrote:The reason Hearn is getting hate is because of how he has gone about it. Why not do this while sat at the negotiating table instead of infront of the cameras? Because this is a PR stunt designed to get casual boxing fans accusing Frampton of ducking.

There has to be a reason Groves, Khan and now Frampton are all wary of working with Matchroom.

I agree going public isn't the best way to do business, but maybe Hearn is trying to force Cyclone back to the table, whilst presenting a credible offer. Also defending his own name/company as Cyclone are saying he's not making a realistic offer.

I like Groves but I think he feels he's a bit smarter than everyone else so didn't want to follow the pack to Hearn. Khan strikes me as a bit greedy and we all know Eddie will take a large slice of the pie! Plus Khan has based himself in the states, where Eddie doesn't hold any sway. Frampton is following someone that's probably a hero to him.

Eddie knew what he was doing with that offer, it was probably something they have already offered which was turned down and just wanted to put some public pressure on Frampton. Bad move IMO, and will now probably backfire.

Frampton is the Champ, Quigg holders a paper version. I see that Gary Hyde came out and said that Rigo would fight Quigg for that or even less? If Sky can hype Audley v Haye into PPV they could surely hype Quigg v Rigo, the most successful amateur to lace a pair up? And if Quigg beats Rigo for the full version, he has got no need to concede at the negotiations table.

But for now......looks like we will get Brook v Gavin

Why would he need to force Cyclone back to the table when he admits he's the one who walked away?

hampo171 wrote:Why would he need to force Cyclone back to the table when he admits he's the one who walked away?

Hearn walked away....that explains alot.

Quigg on undercard verus a no mark coming up.

So are we saying 1.5mil is a bad offer???

Derbymanc wrote:So are we saying 1.5mil is a bad offer???

Well if Quigg ends up gettin £2mill plus home advantage then yes it would be in the grand scheme of things.

It's everything that goes along with it Derby, it was either a 60/40 split or £1.5m not both. So if the fight makes £12m, then Frampton gets £1.5m and not a penny more, while Quigg laughs all the way back to his chippy.

hampo171 wrote:It's everything that goes along with it Derby, it was either a 60/40 split or £1.5m not both. So if the fight makes £12m, then Frampton gets £1.5m and not a penny more, while Quigg laughs all the way back to his chippy.

Frampton/Barry can't have their cake and eat it though. 60/40 split in Framptons favour seems fair to me, so if the fight sells then Frampton does well. Hearn has offered to guarantee him £1.5m which is a good offer if they don't think the fight will sell.

If the fight does £1.6m then Frampton walks away with £1.5m and Quigg £100k...same difference except Quigg is the one with the unsure outcome.

Except it's Frampton who brings things to the table in this fight. A legitimate title, he's the one who brings the fans as Quigg can't sell tickets outside his back yard. Cyclone don't even want the WBA title to be on the line in this fight.

We also don't know how many little strings are in the contracts for future fights, seen it happen before and wouldn't be surprised if it's happening here. If Eddie really wants to make the fight the stop waiving cheques in front of the camera and get back round the table.

A world title is only as legitimate as you think it is Hampo, I for one don't consider Frampton a true world champion as there is a very clear and undisputed number one in the division. Both titles are as paper as the other and that regular WBA title is a clear way to get Rigondeaux in the ring but I doubt they want that any time soon.

Frampton is more of a legitimate world champion in my eyes, and I'm sure many others than, Quigg. He actually won his title lets not forget. Quigg really doesn't bring an awful lot to the table, not sure how true but the other sticking point is that Eddie wants home advantage, it's a much bigger event in Belfast than it is in the Phones 4 U Arena.

Eddie is bringing Sky & PPV to the table. Despite his faults he does know how to put on a big show and PPV is the way for the boxers to make big money.

I think it'll happen as neither have a better option, despite what they are saying.

Interesting read:

http://www.livefight.com/news.php?news_id=4056&y=2014&m=04

Personal Favs

Joe Gallagher wrote:Scott beat Salinas (am sure it was a draw  ) who will prove that he can come again and become a champion (Salinas was KO'd by a 15-7 club fighter in his next fight). Carl turned that fight down and we beat him but no one’s giving Carl stick for beating blown-up bums (hmmm sounds strangly like some other Super Batamweight boxer)

Oh how things have changed

Eddie Hearn wrote:They expect me to chase them like Carl’s the world champion. Scott’s the world champion and he has the belt (  ). Carl Frampton said we want other options but we don’t. We can take three or five options ahead of him but I won’t because I believe we will win the fight anyway.

Martinez is perfect because it makes sense commercially, financially, we’re able to bring him over, both IBF and WBA titles on the line and it’s Frampton-free because they won’t chase him (really.................  )

Guest82 wrote:Eddie is bringing Sky & PPV to the table. Despite his faults he does know how to put on a big show and PPV is the way for the boxers to make big money.

I think it'll happen as neither have a better option, despite what they are saying.  

Frampton has got options. Its Quigg who hasn't got a better one. Why not fight Rigo for the full version? And don't say Rigo isn't known blah blah blah. If Sky Box Office can hype Audley v Haye, The can surely hype Rigo as he is the most decerated amatuer ever?

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

Guest82 wrote:Eddie is bringing Sky & PPV to the table. Despite his faults he does know how to put on a big show and PPV is the way for the boxers to make big money.

I think it'll happen as neither have a better option, despite what they are saying.  

Frampton has got options. Its Quigg who hasn't got a better one. Why not fight Rigo for the full version? And don't say Rigo isn't known blah blah blah. If Sky Box Office can hype Audley v Haye, The can surely hype Rigo as he is the most decerated amatuer ever?

They'd have no problem hyping that fight, but we all know it won't happen unless it absolutely has too. It'll be interesting to see how Quigg fights when this fight doesn't come off, Rigo has offered to fight him for a fraction of the £1.5m and is trying to get the WBA to order it, he could go for Kiko that'd be a step up from what he's faced so far. I doubt either happen though.

You can quite easily also say why doesn't Frampton fight Rigo, aside from eachother there isn't a lot of options without moving up. Santa Cruz isn't viable for either of them and is even harder to negotiate with, there's maybe Donaire but I can't see them taking the risk of him being 50% of the boxer he once was.

A once hot division has become fairly thin on the ground.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You can quite easily also say why doesn't Frampton fight Rigo, aside from eachother there isn't a lot of options without moving up. Santa Cruz isn't viable for either of them and is even harder to negotiate with, there's maybe Donaire but I can't see them taking the risk of him being 50% of the boxer he once was.

A once hot division has become fairly thin on the ground.

You could, but Frampton isn't going round proclaiming to be the WBA Champion of the world and then not fighting the legit belt holder for the full version.

It doesn't make a shred of difference, neither of them are world champions until they beat Rigondeaux who should be the rightful IBF champion anyway.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It doesn't make a shred of difference, neither of them are world champions until they beat Rigondeaux who should be the rightful IBF champion anyway.

Based on the fact he's never fought for it?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It doesn't make a shred of difference, neither of them are world champions until they beat Rigondeaux who should be the rightful IBF champion anyway.

Explain  

Donaire was stripped of the IBF for unifying it with the WBO title and then attempting to unify with Nishioka's WBC title which was also stripped, the clear lineage would have Rigo holding all four major belts.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Donaire was stripped of the IBF for unifying it with the WBO title and then attempting to unify with Nishioka's WBC title which was also stripped, the clear lineage would have Rigo holding all four major belts.

 I see some clutching of straws.....

We could use this theory for 100's of boxers.

Not really clutching at straws, some make out as if Frampton is some fully fledged legitimate world champion when he's not beaten any of the top men in the division.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Not really clutching at straws, some make out as if Frampton is some fully fledged legitimate world champion when he's not beaten any of the top men in the division.

Well he didn't fight for a the vacant version of the title.........or went through the back door to obtain a paper version of one.

I think it was a case of Donaire vacating the IBF belt rather than being stripped of it, Hammersmith. Said that he looked at the next couple of IBF mandatories and decided that they weren't big enough names for him to justify putting off the bigger fights he had planned in order to take care of them (obviously Mares and Rigondeaux were the two names he and his team were gunning for at the time, so fair enough).

I see what you're saying in the sense that he never lost that belt, but at the end of the day he made the decision to give it up. Not like it was taken from him by force. Can't blame whoever picks up that belt further down the line if the champion's decided he doesn't want to keep it. Rigondeaux is THE champion at 122, but at least Frampton is the main man in his sanctioning body, unlike Quigg. Frampton probably isn't going to become a true crossover star and household name like his mentor Barry, but in the boxing realm he is a well-supported UK star whereas Quigg just isn't. He's beaten the better guys, too. I think Quigg would be a lucky boy to get 50:50 or the fight in Manchester. If Hearn is desperate to make it a Sky PPV show and have all the promotion of it, realistically he should be bending to Frampton's team on purse split and venue if he's serious about making the fight happen.

Not quite true with the IBF Chris, it was originally on the line for the Nishioka fight while the WBC were going through a stage of being moronic when it came to unification bouts.

Frampton is a bigger name and his recent opposition is better but overall I don't think there is a huge difference, for one I do not consider Martinez to be any better than Munroe. Avalos and Molitor sway it in Framptons favour but until either of them steps up against Rigo, Donaire or the impossible Santa Cruz it's all a bit mute for me.

The biggest issue for me is that Mcguigan thinks Frampton is a big massive star which he simply isn't and Hearn thinks Mcguigan is a prat so will not be bending to him at all.

Will take you word for it and from memory it was likely that Donaire would have been stripped not too much further down the line, but from what I saw it was still his own decision to give up the belt rather than face all that hassle at a later date. Doesn't matter much now I guess but the point it, it's hardly a stick to beat Frampton with if we're talking direct comparisons with Quigg. One holds a full version of a recognised title, the other doesn't.

Munroe's got a couple of decisions over Martinez but Martinez has demonstrably come on leaps and bounds since then. The guy that lost twice to Frampton appears a much better fighter than the one who lost twice to Rendall. Moreover, Frampton beat Martinez twice while he was in the middle of a cracking run. Munroe was still a very live opponent for Quigg when they fought but was maybe a shade past his peak and on the downturn. He certainly looked that way in the rematch although you could argue that Quigg's performance just made it seem that way.

I'd say Frampton's wins over Martinez carry more weight than Quigg's one over Munroe, personally, despite Rendall being 2-0 against Kiko. But there's room for debate there I suppose.

Frampton's not a massive star in the overall sense but how many names in UK boxing are bigger than him right now, or more in demand? Given that Froch has effectively retired, are there any at all? He's a star compared to Quigg, that's the point right now.

Two reasons why I believe Hearn's £1.5 million stunt hasn't worked...

1) A lot of posters think Frampton wins comprehensively.....So he won't be bothered about taking the fight..

2) Quigg has defended against four stiffs.. So plenty will think it's a ruse to keep on supplying stiffs and milking the belt.....Especially now Gavin is getting a shot at Brook..

Not sure I agree totally with the above...........But I'm sure it plays for Frampo..

Some very good points by everyone here but I don't see how either offer 60/40 or a flat 1.5 mil fee (which I think would be the bigger) is a bad offer.

I can see the point with strings attached but neither camp has mentioned this and with the way Cyclone have been 'disgusted' by the offer I would have thought it would have been brought up. The sticking point seems to be a co-promotion which makes me think Bazza wants it on ITV which won't bring a fraction of what it would make on PPV. (As much as I hate ppv)

My big bug bear is that I still think everyone would be slating quigg if the shoe was on the other foot and whilst he is a paper champion and hasn't fought top quality opposition, has Frampton?

If this fight doesn't go ahead (which it looks like it won't) then it will be interesting to see both fighters next opponents (rumour says Rigo has tried to sign to fight both) is and how that will change how we as fans see things.

I reckon Barry will be targeting Rigo or Santa Cruz next up because, as stated, it's his intention to prove over the next two years that Carl is the best super bantam in the world.