Referees named for the worldcup

Planet Rugby wrote: The full list of referees with their union and number of tests in brackets is: Wayne Barnes (RFU, 57), George Clancy (IRFU, 38), JP Doyle (RFU, 12), Jérôme Garcès (FFR, 22), Pascal Gauzere (FFR, 17), Glen Jackson (NZR, 10), Craig Joubert (SARU, 55), John Lacey (IRFU, 13), Nigel Owens (WRU, 60), Jaco Peyper (SARU, 20), Romain Poite (FFR, 39) and Chris Pollock (NZR, 18).

In addition, the full list of assistant referees with their union and number of tests as AR in brackets is: Federico Anselmi (UAR, five), Stuart Berry (SARU, 15), Mike Fraser (NZR, 10), Angus Gardner (ARU, two), Leighton Hodges (WRU, 19), Marius Mitrea (FIR, 13), Mathieu Raynal (FFR, nine).

The television match officials for the six-week tournament are: George Ayoub (ARU, 33), Graham Hughes (RFU, 60) Ben Skeen (NZR, 11) and Shaun Veldsman (SARU, 50).

The selection was made after a comprehensive review of refereeing performances by the World Rugby Match Official Selection Committee.

I wonder why there I no Scots amongst that lot?

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_41841,00.html

Thank God Barnesy's there. At least now we'll have some-one to blame.

Horray Wayne Barnes!

No doubt he will be tasked with keeping an eye on Ireland.

Glen Jackson didn't exactly cover himself in glory during the 6N. I'm also not a huge fan of George Clancy.

Happy to see Poite, Barnes and big Nige in there though.

I don't think Barnes is too bad.

my personal ranking (excluding french refs who tend to be homers anyway) goes as follow :
- Barnes
- Pollock
- Owens
- Peyper
- Doyle
- Joubert
- Jackson
- Lacey
- Clancy

Oh boy, Jackson, Lacey, Clancy, Garces and Poite, some of my favourite referees.

At least Lawrence isn't there, nor his dad.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Glen Jackson didn't exactly cover himself in glory during the 6N. I'm also not a huge fan of George Clancy.

Happy to see Poite, Barnes and big Nige in there though.

Glen seemed to start off okay but had a melt down after 60 minutes - perhaps he should start and then be subbed?

I'm also not sure why people have such a downer on Barnes, I don't think he's any worse than several other referees on that list. Even Owens has gone right down hill lately.

I quite like Barnes, he is pretty consistent, lets the games flow and referees the Scrums very well.

Nigel Owens IMO is head and shoulders the best referee though. His understanding of the game and his ability to let it flow whilst being consistent in his penalization is exemplary.

Jackson is prone to make his observations based on the first ten minutes of the game, then trusts those observations for the rest of the match and is very edgy with his whistle.

Itchy trigger finger that one.

Poite referees matches on perceptions and doesn't allow any facts or evidence to cloud his pre conceived ideas, hence he is dangerous with his whistle and cards.

Garces has a habit of losing control of a match, there after everything becomes a lottery with him

Clancy and Lacey just doesn't seem to like the Boks and therefor makes me very nervous.

Overall the Nh referees make me nervous as the way they read the breakdown is completely different to how we read it.

My big worry is that referees will have a bigger than usual impact on this coming world cup.

Scrums and breakdowns for sure will be a quessing game for the most part.

Once a referee sees a team has scrum dominance regardless of how it is achieved the other team is going to cop a boatload of scrum penalties and kicks at goal will decide the match.

The breakdown is going to be on big f...up

Biltong wrote:Jackson is prone to make his observations based on the first ten minutes of the game, then trusts those observations for the rest of the match and is very edgy with his whistle.

Itchy trigger finger that one.

Poite referees matches on perceptions and doesn't allow any facts or evidence to cloud his pre conceived ideas, hence he is dangerous with his whistle and cards.

Garces has a habit of losing control of a match, there after everything becomes a lottery with him

Clancy and Lacey just doesn't seem to like the Boks and therefor makes me very nervous.

Overall the Nh referees make me nervous as the way they read the breakdown is completely different to how we read it.

What? You mean as in 'within the law or spirit of the game'?

Biltong wrote:My big worry is that referees will have a bigger than usual impact on this coming world cup.

Scrums and breakdowns for sure will be a quessing game for the most part.

Once a referee sees a team has scrum dominance regardless of how it is achieved the other team is going to cop a boatload of scrum penalties and kicks at goal will decide the match.

The breakdown is going to be on big f...up

The fact that you are saying that shows IMO that there is a huge problem with interpretation of the rules. They are written in black and white and should not be open to interpretation.

The fact that there is a perceived difference in how SH and NH refs interpret the rules suggest that there is something wrong with the rules themselves.

A little transparency in the rule book would go a long way into making the game consistent where ever it is played.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Biltong wrote:My big worry is that referees will have a bigger than usual impact on this coming world cup.

Scrums and breakdowns for sure will be a quessing game for the most part.

Once a referee sees a team has scrum dominance regardless of how it is achieved the other team is going to cop a boatload of scrum penalties and kicks at goal will decide the match.

The breakdown is going to be on big f...up

The fact that you are saying that shows IMO that there is a huge problem with interpretation of the rules. They are written in black and white and should not be open to interpretation.

The fact that there is a perceived difference in how SH and NH refs interpret the rules suggest that there is something wrong with the rules themselves.

A little transparency in the rule book would go a long way into making the game consistent where ever it is played.

i agree, for me there are too many grey areas at the breakdown, and half of them should be removed. The problem comes in when some teams stretch those grey areas beyond what other teams deem legal.

Some say it is playing smartly and within the limits of the law whereas I see it blatant cynical play and illegal

Barnes will be pencilled in for NZ v Ireland in the quarter-finals.

Barnes hates NZ more, just.

ebop wrote:Barnes hates NZ more, just.

I'm always impressed that Barnes seems to be one of the few referees who isn't fooled by McCaw's cloak of invisibility.

Cyril wrote:Barnes will be pencilled in for NZ v Ireland in the quarter-finals.

I think that would be the first fixture in the history of world rugby where both teams would lose. Only Wayne barnes could achieve that.

Barnes to kick the winning penalty in the 79th minute that he awarded to himself for a job well done.

Cyril wrote:Barnes will be pencilled in for NZ v Ireland in the quarter-finals.

I hear that if this is the case the Internet is closing for the day.

Jimpy wrote:

ebop wrote:Barnes hates NZ more, just.

I'm always impressed that Barnes seems to be one of the few referees who isn't fooled by McCaw's cloak of invisibility.

Some might consider that to be a subjective perception brought onto the field of play

Biltong wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

ebop wrote:Barnes hates NZ more, just.

I'm always impressed that Barnes seems to be one of the few referees who isn't fooled by McCaw's cloak of invisibility.

Some might consider that to be a subjective perception brought onto the field of play

Ha!

He's certainly much better than anything the IRFU have available for the refereeing thingy...

ebop wrote:Barnes to kick the winning penalty in the 79th minute that he awarded to himself for a job well done.

Anyway, I think most NH teams will be wanting to avoid Joubert. He doesn't officiate the breakdown by letter of the law, he seems to bring in his own

whocares wrote:

Planet Rugby wrote: The full list of referees with their union and number of tests in brackets is: Wayne Barnes (RFU, 57), George Clancy (IRFU, 38), JP Doyle (RFU, 12), Jérôme Garcès (FFR, 22), Pascal Gauzere (FFR, 17), Glen Jackson (NZR, 10), Craig Joubert (SARU, 55), John Lacey (IRFU, 13), Nigel Owens (WRU, 60), Jaco Peyper (SARU, 20), Romain Poite (FFR, 39) and Chris Pollock (NZR, 18).

In addition, the full list of assistant referees with their union and number of tests as AR in brackets is: Federico Anselmi (UAR, five), Stuart Berry (SARU, 15), Mike Fraser (NZR, 10), Angus Gardner (ARU, two), Leighton Hodges (WRU, 19), Marius Mitrea (FIR, 13), Mathieu Raynal (FFR, nine).

The television match officials for the six-week tournament are: George Ayoub (ARU, 33), Graham Hughes (RFU, 60) Ben Skeen (NZR, 11) and Shaun Veldsman (SARU, 50).

The selection was made after a comprehensive review of refereeing performances by the World Rugby Match Official Selection Committee.

I wonder why there I no Scots amongst that lot?

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_41841,00.html

No Steve Walsh... Is that a planet rugby error, or your error whocares?

The Saint wrote:No Steve Walsh... Is that a planet rugby error, or your error whocares?

Steve Walsh retired from rugby a few weeks ago, I thought a person of your massive rugby knowledge would have known this:-

http://www.rugby.com.au/News/NewsArticle/tabid/1699/ArticleID/14867/Steve-Walsh-to-retire-from-Rugby.aspx

Not enough Irish TMOs ...but sure............ ya can't have everything your own way all the toyam.....

How Leighton Hodhes is allowed anywhere near a flag is beyond belief

Jimpy wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

ebop wrote:Barnes hates NZ more, just.

I'm always impressed that Barnes seems to be one of the few referees who isn't fooled by McCaw's cloak of invisibility.

Some might consider that to be a subjective perception brought onto the field of play

Ha!

He's certainly much better than anything the IRFU have available for the refereeing thingy...

Well England are only providing one referee and he is the worst ref in world rugby. JP Doyle is really Irish so technically there are three Irish refs and one really bad English one.

It's funny how opinions differ. Personally I prefer Poite and Garces, and Nige seems to have got some of his most back.

I do agree that the breakdown will be a big issue and talking point, though. A QF lineup with Barnes refereeing Ireland and Joubert refereeing England could produce vevery different outcomes from, say, Joubert for Ireland and Poite for England

i have no faith in Poite. I sincerely hope we don't have him referee a match we play in

If Schmidt is as smart as everyone says surely we'll have a strategy for playing Barnes better. Because it's likely he will referee one of our games at least.

How can the number of penalties we concede be so consistently low with every other ref in rugby and then shoot up with him? I know the refs talk to the teams before a match. Have they ever asked him? Have they listened to what he says? Have they ever adapted the way they play when he's the ref?

Any talk of Barnes being "biased", even backed up by very cherry picked video's, is total nonsense and really insulting to him. This is something Schmidt and Ireland have to figure out. Remember Poite used to be apparently "biased" against the Irish too. Now we're fine with him. Has he become unbiased or have we adapted to him well?

On New Zealanders thinking Barnes "hates" them too, is this based on anything other than one missed forward pass? Something which every ref misses in every game by the way. And was it even really forward or are we all just convinced by the persistence of the whinging about it?

So many questions Feckless...so little time.

I'd throw some of your comments straight back at you though: If Schmidt is as smart as everyone says surely we had a strategy for playing Barnes better.  How can the number of penalties we concede be so consistently low with every other ref in rugby and then shoot up with him?

Good questions.  I have no answers.

That's us with different coaches and different players remember - and now us with an allegedly smart coach who does his study, and I'm sure discusses with refs in advance what is expected of Ireland, and I'm sure does his video homework to reassure himself.......................  but still one ref consistently provides us with our most difficult  ref/player/coach relationship.

I cannae answer it but I doubt Schmidt is dumb.  He did his homework on Barnes and yet the players looked like they were at sea with Barnes' interpretations during that first half against Wales.  Schmidt must be dumb is the only diplomatic conclusion.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:No Steve Walsh... Is that a planet rugby error, or your error whocares?

Steve Walsh retired from rugby a few weeks ago, I thought a person of your massive rugby knowledge would have known this:-

http://www.rugby.com.au/News/NewsArticle/tabid/1699/ArticleID/14867/Steve-Walsh-to-retire-from-Rugby.aspx

WHAT, you're telling me the world's greatest ref retired?

SecretFly wrote:Schmidt must be dumb is the only diplomatic conclusion.

More PC to say mute. unless of course the players are deaf.

The Saint wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:No Steve Walsh... Is that a planet rugby error, or your error whocares?

Steve Walsh retired from rugby a few weeks ago, I thought a person of your massive rugby knowledge would have known this:-

http://www.rugby.com.au/News/NewsArticle/tabid/1699/ArticleID/14867/Steve-Walsh-to-retire-from-Rugby.aspx

WHAT, you're telling me the world's greatest ref retired?

He was quoted in saying he had some business opportunities that he needed to prioritise

Biltong wrote:

The Saint wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:No Steve Walsh... Is that a planet rugby error, or your error whocares?

Steve Walsh retired from rugby a few weeks ago, I thought a person of your massive rugby knowledge would have known this:-

http://www.rugby.com.au/News/NewsArticle/tabid/1699/ArticleID/14867/Steve-Walsh-to-retire-from-Rugby.aspx

WHAT, you're telling me the world's greatest ref retired?

He was quoted in saying he had some business opportunities that he needed to prioritise

Shame. He was my favourite ref. I hope my favourite prop (Phil Vickery) doesn't retire any time soon. I usually enjoy ref's pinging him off the park in big tests.

FecklessRogue wrote:If Schmidt is as smart as everyone says surely we'll have a strategy for playing Barnes better. Because it's likely he will referee one of our games at least.

How can the number of penalties we concede be so consistently low with every other ref in rugby and then shoot up with him? I know the refs talk to the teams before a match. Have they ever asked him? Have they listened to what he says? Have they ever adapted the way they play when he's the ref?

Any talk of Barnes being "biased", even backed up by very cherry picked video's, is total nonsense and really insulting to him. This is something Schmidt and Ireland have to figure out. Remember Poite used to be apparently "biased" against the Irish too. Now we're fine with him. Has he become unbiased or have we adapted to him well?

On New Zealanders thinking Barnes "hates" them too, is this based on anything other than one missed forward pass? Something which every ref misses in every game by the way. And was it even really forward or are we all just convinced by the persistence of the whinging about it?

Personally I thought Barnes had an excellant game for France, he was able to manipulate play superbly, giving  France direction, motivation, yellow cards (to NZ), closed the roof and points when most needed. he certainly showed those pesky All Blacks (especially their captain) a thing or two when it came to ruck and maul time.

Sadly for France they next went on to meet England in the semi final, meaning that Barnes was no longer available for selection.

FecklessRogue wrote:If Schmidt is as smart as everyone says surely we'll have a strategy for playing Barnes better. Because it's likely he will referee one of our games at least.

How can the number of penalties we concede be so consistently low with every other ref in rugby and then shoot up with him? I know the refs talk to the teams before a match. Have they ever asked him? Have they listened to what he says? Have they ever adapted the way they play when he's the ref?

Any talk of Barnes being "biased", even backed up by very cherry picked video's, is total nonsense and really insulting to him. This is something Schmidt and Ireland have to figure out. Remember Poite used to be apparently "biased" against the Irish too. Now we're fine with him. Has he become unbiased or have we adapted to him well?

On New Zealanders thinking Barnes "hates" them too, is this based on anything other than one missed forward pass? Something which every ref misses in every game by the way. And was it even really forward or are we all just convinced by the persistence of the whinging about it?

We got over Barnes long ago, its only Ireland doing all the whinging now. And you don't have to listen to all the moaning about the pass, just watch the video and judge for yourself. There...easy.

Whenever I mention Barnes my tongue is firmly in my cheek. Reality is, Tman is right, we're over Barnes but it's fun poking a stick at him.

We're over him too...until next time we all meet up again for another jolly game.  

Going on how the people at World Rugby love jokes, I guess that'll be our pool game against France... or one against the ABs if we're lucky enough to get one but unlucky enough to get Barnes.... who'll have long since forgiven the ABs for their whines; but our whinging will be still vivid in his personal book of Vengence in Mine sayeth Wayne!  

As I have said many times, I feel that Barnes is overly pedantic but once a team adjusts to him, he does let the game flow fairly free. I can see any bias against Ireland or NZ myself. Its up to teams to do their homework. He is very consistent in his rulings so it should not be that difficult. I have no problems seeing his name as ref for any Irish matches.

As he's the only one capable of weeding out the cheats - I would like to see the whole WC schedule rearranged around Wayne's availability. I'd have him ref every match with the other wannabes running the line hoping to learn something. On match free days he can hop over to Dublin and enjoy the craic with some of his fans.

GunsGerms wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

ebop wrote:Barnes hates NZ more, just.

I'm always impressed that Barnes seems to be one of the few referees who isn't fooled by McCaw's cloak of invisibility.

Some might consider that to be a subjective perception brought onto the field of play

Ha!

He's certainly much better than anything the IRFU have available for the refereeing thingy...

Well England are only providing one referee and he is the worst ref in world rugby. JP Doyle is really Irish so technically there are three Irish refs and one really bad English one.

I wondered how long it would be.

Dry your eyes sonny, Barnes has confirmed he is committed to officiating all Irish games, Jackson will be running the line.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:As I have said many times, I feel that Barnes is overly pedantic but once a team adjusts to him, he does let the game flow fairly free. I can see any bias against Ireland or NZ myself. Its up to teams to do their homework. He is very consistent in his rulings so it should not be that difficult. I have no problems seeing his name as ref for any Irish matches.

He is a good referee, nobody with any real sense would disagree.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:As I have said many times, I feel that Barnes is overly pedantic but once a team adjusts to him, he does let the game flow fairly free. I can see any bias against Ireland or NZ myself. Its up to teams to do their homework. He is very consistent in his rulings so it should not be that difficult. I have no problems seeing his name as ref for any Irish matches.

Agree with this. As an AB fan, I held McCaw more responsible for 2007 QF defeat than Barnes. It was no conspiracy, I just think a young inexperienced ref just "froze in the headlights" and got a bit swept up in the occasion. NZ should have been (were) good enough to get around it, but weren't smart enough.
Was the next time he reffed NZ an AI game in Scotland? I have a vague memory of thinking his yellow(or red) card of a Scotland player early in the game was unwarrented and a bit of him levelling things up.

I watched the recent Wales/Ireland 6N match and thought he was being a bit picky, but he was consistent. And I believe the more open second half was a direct result of his early attitude. He did let more go in the second half, but I think he thought that the players were doing just enough to let play flow that he let it go a bit more.

Don't mind Barnes as a ref at all.

goneagain wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:As I have said many times, I feel that Barnes is overly pedantic but once a team adjusts to him, he does let the game flow fairly free. I can see any bias against Ireland or NZ myself. Its up to teams to do their homework. He is very consistent in his rulings so it should not be that difficult. I have no problems seeing his name as ref for any Irish matches.

Agree with this. As an AB fan, I held McCaw more responsible for 2007 QF defeat than Barnes. It was no conspiracy, I just think a young inexperienced ref just "froze in the headlights" and got a bit swept up in the occasion. NZ should have been (were) good enough to get around it, but weren't smart enough.
Was the next time he reffed NZ an AI game in Scotland? I have a vague memory of thinking his yellow(or red) card of a Scotland player early in the game was unwarrented and a bit of him levelling things up.

I watched the recent Wales/Ireland 6N match and thought he was being a bit picky, but he was consistent. And I believe the more open second half was a direct result of his early attitude. He did let more go in the second half, but I think he thought that the players were doing just enough to let play flow that he let it go a bit more.

Don't mind Barnes as a ref at all.

Sadly those "referee freezes" cost teams potential finals places.

The mere fact that SA were eliminated in 2011 due to a "referee freeze" is simply not good enough.

With what is going on in our country our sport is slowly going backwards, and soon we might not be a leading rugby and cricket country anymore.

Our chances to win these tournaments are getting smaller and smaller every year.

I'm struggling to make the correlation between refereeing decisions and a nation's (perceived) decline in general sporting achievement.

goneagain wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:As I have said many times, I feel that Barnes is overly pedantic but once a team adjusts to him, he does let the game flow fairly free. I can see any bias against Ireland or NZ myself. Its up to teams to do their homework. He is very consistent in his rulings so it should not be that difficult. I have no problems seeing his name as ref for any Irish matches.

Agree with this. As an AB fan, I held McCaw more responsible for 2007 QF defeat than Barnes. It was no conspiracy, I just think a young inexperienced ref just "froze in the headlights" and got a bit swept up in the occasion. NZ should have been (were) good enough to get around it, but weren't smart enough.
Was the next time he reffed NZ an AI game in Scotland? I have a vague memory of thinking his yellow(or red) card of a Scotland player early in the game was unwarrented and a bit of him levelling things up.

I watched the recent Wales/Ireland 6N match and thought he was being a bit picky, but he was consistent. And I believe the more open second half was a direct result of his early attitude. He did let more go in the second half, but I think he thought that the players were doing just enough to let play flow that he let it go a bit more.

Don't mind Barnes as a ref at all.

So you think that its ok that he penalised Ireland heavily in the first half in key field positions giving Wales the ascendancy yet in the second as you say he lets more go when Ireland is in the ascendancy. That is not consistancy and is the problem with WB.

Ireland went through over 30 phases at one point near Wales line. Barnes ignored all potential penalties and then awarded Wales a very innocious one. There are a few paralells with the '07 NZ game. No?

Comparing Ireland to NZ. Nice one 

Jimpy wrote:I'm struggling to make the correlation between refereeing decisions and a nation's (perceived) decline in general sporting achievement.

Perhaps you should read closer.

I said "referee freezes" such as what happened in 2011, and no I am not going to explain that one to you, if that is necessary then you needn't read any further.

The point is our sport is in decline due to politics, our currency and overseas poaching.