Labour's Non Dom strategy - A good move ???

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 08 Apr 2015, 2:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

Mansion Tax and now this Non Dom move.............Certainly is opening up dividing lines...................Obviously the opposition to it will play the card of these 1% guys will leave the Country etc etc..........Fat chance..

Duncan Bannatyne of Dragon's Den has already commended Miliband......Saying "it's got my vote".......I remember he had a spat with James Caan another Dragon over his status !!! Not so long back...I think it was a major reason Caan left the show...

Putting aside the crap that this will cost jobs............

I think it's a smart move !!...As Blair said yesterday If anything will cost jobs it will be coming out of Europe..

Labour is playing the populist card.............."We are on your side...."..

Let's see what happens..

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 10 Apr 2015, 9:54 pm

Council tax rowley. Road tax doesn't exist.

by **seanmichaels** Fri 10 Apr 2015, 9:59 pm

yes. I didn't for 3 years. Not sure where the car ended up....

by Rowley Fri 10 Apr 2015, 10:00 pm

The point holds shah, just because you don't approve of how taxes are spent does not give you an excuse or justification for avoiding them.

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 10 Apr 2015, 10:00 pm

But the point remains. Those who benefit most from this country ought to pay the most. If they don't they can urine off elsewhere and someone else can come and rip us off.

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 10 Apr 2015, 10:01 pm

Yes sorry mate Im on my phone and still have trouble navigating around the stupid thing. Meant to make that point in the post before.

by **seanmichaels** Fri 10 Apr 2015, 10:05 pm

Like Camerons big society stuff. Been avoiding former president of the club because his illness too close to home. Saw him in garden tonight with his Alzheimer's missus.
Had to speak to him and now I'm scarifying and sorting his lawn. Will probably do a slow roast for him on Sunday. Not about taxes, just about being good to each other, encouraging kids not to make the same mistakes you did.

And a healthy economy.....

by TopHat24/7 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:31 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Marco_Marky - Stuffington wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Tax profits............

Simples...

Profits are taxed.

I meant tax turnover................You can HIDE your profits !!

Delusional policy that's been proven as utter nonesense time and time again, hence why it's never been implemented by a major economy.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:41 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Marco_Marky - Stuffington wrote:It's a move to try and satisfy the lefty brigade which only 3 months ago was a bad idea according this colleague. I personally think it is a bad idea too. I've not personally decided which way to vote yet, but this constant attack on the rich is starting to annoy me. Yes those with the broadest shoulders need to put the most in, but lets not take the urine here, Ed.

And that they do. Top 1% of earners pay 30% of the nations income tax bill.

Income tax accounts for only 25% of Britain's total tax. Lower earners pay a higher proportion of their income in tax than higher earners do.

Bullcrap.

People's major tax burden is income tax (and NI), this is what dictates the vast majority of what proportion of your income you pay in 'tax', generally. Regressive taxes like VAT, and quasi-regressive taxes like VED, IPT and taxes on cigs & alchohol etc, make up only a small proportion of a persons total tax burden therefore not enough to compensate for the progressive income tax effect.

And those complaining at how much tax rich people pay tend to only quote headline numbers without caring for the detail (as it doesn't help their case). Given the amount of benefits that fall away (child benefit, personal allowances etc), marginal tax rates for the rich can ACTUALLY be over 70%!!

http://www.accaglobal.com/uk/en/discover/cpd-articles/taxation/fa14-marginaltax.html

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:07 pm

I see the Tories are pumping £8 billion into the NHS...........

No one seems to know where it's coming from !!

Desperate times...........

"Ed is crap" doesn't seem to be working !!

by Mike Selig Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:31 pm

The conservative campaign has been very poor so far. Their response to the Non Dom announcement (whatever you make of it) was amateurish in the extreme and has allowed them to be painted as the very thing they would have wanted to avoid. I also think that they (and their allies in the press) massively overplayed the "Red Ed is a disaster" card far too early, to the extent that the public was expecting him to be so bad that so far in this campaign he has if anything 'exceeded expectations'. The recent attacks on him have certainly backfired. In that context pledging an extra £8 billion to the NHS does indeed have a whiff of desperation, and is taking the contest to what is a Labour strong point which can't be smart.

I might be wrong but so far Labour seem to be winning the campaign fairly easily... and without doing much. The Conservatives need to return to the economy - the more the campaign revolves around other fringe issues (including Europe) the less likely it is that they will get a majority. The status quo in the polls suits Labour more (especially if they can start reversing the trend in Scotland, which I still think they will).

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:36 pm

Mike Selig wrote:The conservative campaign has been very poor so far. Their response to the Non Dom announcement (whatever you make of it) was amateurish in the extreme and has allowed them to be painted as the very thing they would have wanted to avoid. I also think that they (and their allies in the press) massively overplayed the "Red Ed is a disaster" card far too early, to the extent that the public was expecting him to be so bad that so far in this campaign he has if anything 'exceeded expectations'. The recent attacks on him have certainly backfired. In that context pledging an extra £8 billion to the NHS does indeed have a whiff of desperation, and is taking the contest to what is a Labour strong point which can't be smart.

I might be wrong but so far Labour seem to be winning the campaign fairly easily... and without doing much. The Conservatives need to return to the economy - the more the campaign revolves around other fringe issues (including Europe) the less likely it is that they will get a majority. The status quo in the polls suits Labour more (especially if they can start reversing the trend in Scotland, which I still think they will).

This Lynton Crosby guy seems to be the down and dirty type of strategist............Works back home in Australia probably......

Not sure the Brits in all fairness to them like this kind of game !!...

Brits like the underdog..

by Duty281 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:09 pm

I am amused in the extreme, not to mention surprised, that UKIP are the only economically sound party. Laugh

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:22 pm

Duty281 wrote:I am amused in the extreme, not to mention surprised, that UKIP are the only economically sound party.

Down from 17% to 11%..............Not looking like many people agree with you..

Going to have just 1 mp after the election..

by Duty281 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:35 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I am amused in the extreme, not to mention surprised, that UKIP are the only economically sound party.

Down from 17% to 11%..............Not looking like many people agree with you..

Going to have just 1 mp after the election..

Going to have at least five, I estimate.

And I saw a 19% poll the other day.

by **seanmichaels** Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:44 pm

Labour manifesto was either written before the Tories pledged £8 billion to the NHS, or else Labour is pledging £10.5 billion...

Page 40 reads: "Labour will invest £2.5 billion more that the Conservatives to recruit 8,000 more GPs, 20,000 more nurses and 3,000 more midwives."

by TopHat24/7 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:46 pm

Mike Selig wrote:The conservative campaign has been very poor so far. Their response to the Non Dom announcement (whatever you make of it) was amateurish in the extreme and has allowed them to be painted as the very thing they would have wanted to avoid. I also think that they (and their allies in the press) massively overplayed the "Red Ed is a disaster" card far too early, to the extent that the public was expecting him to be so bad that so far in this campaign he has if anything 'exceeded expectations'. The recent attacks on him have certainly backfired. In that context pledging an extra £8 billion to the NHS does indeed have a whiff of desperation, and is taking the contest to what is a Labour strong point which can't be smart.

I might be wrong but so far Labour seem to be winning the campaign fairly easily... and without doing much. The Conservatives need to return to the economy - the more the campaign revolves around other fringe issues (including Europe) the less likely it is that they will get a majority. The status quo in the polls suits Labour more (especially if they can start reversing the trend in Scotland, which I still think they will).

Given Labour haven't held a definitive poll lead in months, I can't see where you're coming from really.....(other than the obvious)

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:46 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I am amused in the extreme, not to mention surprised, that UKIP are the only economically sound party.

Down from 17% to 11%..............Not looking like many people agree with you..

Going to have just 1 mp after the election..

Going to have at least five, I estimate.

And I saw a 19% poll the other day.

Farage is losing in his seat and Reckless who won the by election..............Is favorite to lose...

= 1 Doug Carswell....

Try to keep up..

by TopHat24/7 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:46 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I see the Tories are pumping £8 billion into the NHS...........

No one seems to know where it's coming from !!

Desperate times...........

"Ed is crap" doesn't seem to be working !!

It's called economic growth. Not something this prospective Labour government would know anything about since they're favouring France's failed socialist approach of stagnant growth.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:51 pm

Tried the stabbing the brother in back line................Didn't work..
Losing on the NHS......................Dream something up over night....£8b
Mansion tax poll shows 60% like it..........bring in an equivalent policy...

No ideology.................Just a pair of kids who want to play at being PM and Chancellor..

by **seanmichaels** Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:52 pm

I see the IEA have panned Labour's manifesto. Shambolic promises apparently. Expect to see Tories take it apart in the next few days.

by Duty281 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 3:53 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I am amused in the extreme, not to mention surprised, that UKIP are the only economically sound party.

Down from 17% to 11%..............Not looking like many people agree with you..

Going to have just 1 mp after the election..

Going to have at least five, I estimate.

And I saw a 19% poll the other day.

Farage is losing in his seat and Reckless who won the by election..............Is favorite to lose...

= 1 Doug Carswell....

Try to keep up..

I remember you predicting that UKIP would finish 3rd in the European Elections!

by TopHat24/7 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:01 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Tried the stabbing the brother in back line................Didn't work..
Losing on the NHS......................Dream something up over night....£8b
Mansion tax poll shows 60% like it..........bring in an equivalent policy...

No ideology.................Just a pair of kids who want to play at being PM and Chancellor..

"60% like it" laughing

Only 60% like a tax that only affects about 1% of the population? Sounds like a bloody disaster to me!! Laugh

Nothing Labour are doing is working either, they got no poll lead any more.

Labour are as clueless as you are. Their only hope is general dislike for Tories, reality is that's only delivering a hung parliament atm.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:05 pm

seanmichaels wrote:I see the IEA have panned Labour's manifesto. Shambolic promises apparently. Expect to see Tories take it apart in the next few days.

Free market think tank? It'll always laugh at a public sector led socialist manifesto.

Am sure there are left wing tanks that'll tear apart a Tory manifesto.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:06 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I am amused in the extreme, not to mention surprised, that UKIP are the only economically sound party.

Down from 17% to 11%..............Not looking like many people agree with you..

Going to have just 1 mp after the election..

Going to have at least five, I estimate.

And I saw a 19% poll the other day.

Farage is losing in his seat and Reckless who won the by election..............Is favorite to lose...

= 1 Doug Carswell....

Try to keep up..

I remember you predicting that UKIP would finish 3rd in the European Elections!

I probably did....................But this is the real thing and it's between Cam and Mili...........

Not much point in futile gestures in 2015..

by Marco_Marky - Stuffington Mon 13 Apr 2015, 4:56 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Tried the stabbing the brother in back line................Didn't work..
Losing on the NHS......................Dream something up over night....£8b
Mansion tax poll shows 60% like it..........bring in an equivalent policy...

No ideology.................Just a pair of kids who want to play at being PM and Chancellor..

All politicians do is dream up things overnight.

Mansion tax stinks, I'm about as far from being able to afford a mansion as you can imagine but the charges for buying at those prices are horrendous. It's basically a legal theft. People like policies which serve their own self interest. The NHS has served me terrifically well over these last 6 months, if a politician said we will stop all foreign aid and put it all into the NHS then I would probably say go for it, it's still a bad idea though.

by **ShahenshahG** Mon 13 Apr 2015, 6:36 pm

It's basically labour's way of taxing London and hoping it will drive house prices down.

by Mike Selig Mon 13 Apr 2015, 10:19 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Mike Selig wrote:The conservative campaign has been very poor so far. Their response to the Non Dom announcement (whatever you make of it) was amateurish in the extreme and has allowed them to be painted as the very thing they would have wanted to avoid. I also think that they (and their allies in the press) massively overplayed the "Red Ed is a disaster" card far too early, to the extent that the public was expecting him to be so bad that so far in this campaign he has if anything 'exceeded expectations'. The recent attacks on him have certainly backfired. In that context pledging an extra £8 billion to the NHS does indeed have a whiff of desperation, and is taking the contest to what is a Labour strong point which can't be smart.

I might be wrong but so far Labour seem to be winning the campaign fairly easily... and without doing much. The Conservatives need to return to the economy - the more the campaign revolves around other fringe issues (including Europe) the less likely it is that they will get a majority. The status quo in the polls suits Labour more (especially if they can start reversing the trend in Scotland, which I still think they will).

Given Labour haven't held a definitive poll lead in months, I can't see where you're coming from really.....(other than the obvious)

I don't know what you mean (I suspect you think I am a Labour supporter, which I am not), or which part of my post you are disagreeing with.

The status quo (neck and neck, or minor Labour lead, depending which poll of polls you believe) suits Labour because if on the day both parties poll the same (or within 1 or 2%) it is likely that Labour will be the largest party. That, allied to the fact that the likely larger minor parties are the Libs (who will be very reticent about entering another power sharing deal of any sort with the Tories) and the SNP (who won't back the Tories under any circumstances), means that if the polls stay roughly as they are then Labour are likely to lead the next government. For the Conservatives to return to power they need the polls to either be inaccurate or shift - neither is impossible, but I don't think saying "the status quo suits Labour" is a particularly controversial statement.

I am arguing about the effects of various announcements separate to what I actually think of the content, because if I start arguing the content I will get annoyed with people being stupid/argumentative and it is not worth the hastle.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 10:13 am

Polls are consistently inconsistent at the moment..

Looks like even steven..

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 10:25 am

Labour are winning quite a few of the marginals that haven't put up a Green candidate..

Like Crewe + Nantwich and Finchley GG................according to the latest Lord A polling....

by TopHat24/7 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 1:09 pm

ICM’s monthly poll in the Guardian has topline figures of CON 39%(+3), LAB 33%(-2), LDEM 8%(nc), UKIP 7%(-2), GRN 7%(+3)

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 1:11 pm

ICM is an outlier................TNS have Labour six up..........

by TopHat24/7 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 1:35 pm

They're both bollox.

Every poll of polls I've seen for weeks has less than 1 point in it.

by Mike Selig Tue 14 Apr 2015, 2:13 pm

Having said that, nationwide polls don't necessarily reflect the final result, and attempting to extrapolate from them using past election patterns is probably not going to be very accurate at all. There are as far as I can tell 3 real unknowns in this election.

1) The fall of the Lib Dems; traditionally the Lib Dems have been strong in student areas, and in the South West where they are essentially the opposition to the Conservatives. We are assuming that they will lose a lot of their student seats, but how about the South West? Personally I think the Lib Dem vote will collapse most dramatically in seats where they have previously come a strong 3rd (with 15-20ish% maybe) and been seen as the "protest vote", which they no longer are. Some of these seats are real marginals, so who will this (if indeed the collapse happens) help/hinder? You would think Labour would benefit more (so look for seats where Labour lost to the Conservatives by a couple of percent with a 15% Lib Dem vote in 2010 to maybe switch to Labour), but... will these voters simply not turn up? Or switch to UKIP?

2) The UKIP factor: how many people when push comes to shove will vote for them? Will there be a "cold feet" factor which harmed the Lib Dems in 2010? Or will the UKIP vote hold, and if so will this be a game-changer? Are they going to split the right wing vote, will they harm Labour in some e.g. Lib-Lab marginals? This is something which hasn't really influenced previous general elections so it's hard to tell.

3) The SNP: they are reported to wipe out Labour in Scotland. Will this actually happen, or can Labour entice back enough voters to save more than people are predicting? If Labour do lose 40-50 seats in Scotland then that is seats they have to make up elsewhere. Not to mention the role the SNP could play in the power-brokering.

Sorry, this is a very long-winded way of saying "things are very uncertain". I just find it quite interesting.

by Guest Tue 14 Apr 2015, 2:15 pm

seanmichaels wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
seanmichaels wrote:No in 2007 Ed Miliband was with Ed Balls advising Gordon Brown on the best interests for our economy.

He was advising Brown...............

Brown had his own administration with Darling as chancellor...

It is possible to work for someone and have your own ideas..

As I said he was Chairman of Econonmic Advisers. Not the tea boy....

Not everyone can make a decent cup of tea

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 2:25 pm

Not everyone can spell economic.....

by Guest Tue 14 Apr 2015, 2:34 pm

No-one noticed, it'll be fine....probably what the Chancellor says after the Budget

by dummy_half Tue 14 Apr 2015, 2:40 pm

Mike

Certainly it's the most interesting election that I've been aware of. As for your three points:

1 - I suspect the LDs will hold more seats than expected from their national vote share. Wouldn't b surprised to see them hold on to about 20 seats even on only about a 10 to 12% national vote. As you make the point, they have certain pockets (SW being one, but also some of the London suburbs / ex-burbs) where there are strongholds. 'Nice' people who don't want to vote for the 'nasty' Conservatives, but who can't see themselves as Labour supporters. I'm not convinced that all that many previous LD voters will be switching to either the Conservatives or Labour, but will be looking at the protest vote options, in particular the Greens (who I suspect will do OK in terms of vote share but will probably end up empty-handed as I have heard that they have done an awful job running the council in Brighton, which will hurt Lucas's chances of holding her seat).

2 - There are hints of UKIP fading away. I suspect they'll end up with Carswell retaining Clacton and Farage will have a good chance in Thanet, but otherwise those who have been attracted from the right of the Conservatives will come back 'home' because even a Cameron-Conservative government is for them a far better option than a Labour (+/- SNP) one...

3 - SNP: It's amazing that they are polling so strongly given that they are the incumbent party of Government in Scotland, where things are not going brilliantly, and where they recently lost the independence referendum which is their entire raison d'etre. I suspect the polls are currently being slightly too generous to them, although it looks likely they will make some big gains. Two possible ironies - their success will make the Conservatives more likely to be the largest party in Westminster, and also increases the chance of the Conservatives actually taking a seat or two in Scotland (i.e. splitting the left vote, letting the Conservatives in with a 35-40% vote in certain seats).

In my opinion though, the biggest thing to date is that neither Conservatives or Labour have done anything that would grab the votes to make them possible outright winners of the election - both seem to be more worried about not losing their core vote than in enticing the middle ground.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 3:24 pm

Have an opposition debate on Thursday on TV....

Cameron Clegg aren't there and it may be an open goal............

For Plaid, Green. Lab, UKIP and SNP to further their case...

by TopHat24/7 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 3:54 pm

It'll just end in a squabble.

by Mind the windows Tino. Tue 14 Apr 2015, 4:05 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:It'll just end in a squabble.

The thread or the debate?

by **ShahenshahG** Tue 14 Apr 2015, 4:08 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:It'll just end in a squabble.

The thread or the debate?

Between tophat and the restaurant as the latter incorporates a ration system just before he enters the premises.

by Guest Tue 14 Apr 2015, 4:22 pm

Would dearly love to see the intelligent political debate descending into an orgy of profanity as they scream at each other, "Historically, how many rent boys have your lots raped and killed over the years?"

by TopHat24/7 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 4:43 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:It'll just end in a squabble.

The thread or the debate?

With extensive and valuable contributions like that, who knows......... raspberry

by Mind the windows Tino. Tue 14 Apr 2015, 4:46 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:It'll just end in a squabble.

The thread or the debate?

With extensive and valuable contributions like that, who knows.........

There isn't any point in contributing. You know it all already...... raspberry

by TopHat24/7 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 4:51 pm

by Duty281 Wed 15 Apr 2015, 9:47 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I am amused in the extreme, not to mention surprised, that UKIP are the only economically sound party.

Down from 17% to 11%..............Not looking like many people agree with you..

Going to have just 1 mp after the election..

Going to have at least five, I estimate.

And I saw a 19% poll the other day.

Farage is losing in his seat and Reckless who won the by election..............Is favorite to lose...

= 1 Doug Carswell....

Try to keep up..

I remember you predicting that UKIP would finish 3rd in the European Elections!

I probably did....................But this is the real thing and it's between Cam and Mili...........

Not much point in futile gestures in 2015..

Highest-rated comments on the BBC this morning all from UKIP voters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32312687

Just like the Telegraph, and the Mail, and the Times, and the Independent...oh I could go on!

by TopHat24/7 Wed 15 Apr 2015, 9:49 am

UKIP vote is slipping, thankfully, hoping disillusioned Tories start to come 'home'.

Most of the quirky fringe parties, protest-vote attractors, I starting to get shown up a little now and popularity is fading.

by Rowley Wed 15 Apr 2015, 9:58 am

Duty281 wrote:.oh I could go on!

You do.

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 15 Apr 2015, 10:06 am

The reason ukip has the highest votes on their comments is that have the most rabid support as most people from any party don't really bother clicking the yea or nay Otherwise there would be millions of ratings rather than the meagre few thousand

by Duty281 Wed 15 Apr 2015, 10:12 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:UKIP vote is slipping, thankfully, hoping disillusioned Tories start to come 'home'.

Most of the quirky fringe parties, protest-vote attractors, I starting to get shown up a little now and popularity is fading.

The Prime Minister has told the good people of this land to vote him out after a broken promise. And for the one in three UKIP voters who do not hail from a Tory-voting background, it might be difficult for them to go 'home'.

ShahenshahG wrote:The reason ukip has the highest votes on their comments is that have the most rabid support as most people from any party don't really bother clicking the yea or nay Otherwise there would be millions of ratings rather than the meagre few thousand

I thought UKIP voters struggled to use the Internet, or send an e-mail? Whistle

At least, that's the view of one idiotic Labour politician.

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