Pro12 value - the facts

First topic message reminder :

Broadcasting revenue. As revealed today by the CEO of PRW:

The French Top14 = £50m
Aviva Prem = £40m
Pro12 = £11.5m.

That is quite simply unsustainable if you want to be a professional rugby team in domestic Northern Hem rugby. Somethign has to change for the celtic teams, and quickly.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Guys, listen to what Don Alfonso is saying. OUT OF THE 18,000 TICKETS ON SALE ONLY 400 ARE LEFT. Now to me this is one of two things, either he is telling the truth, and there are 400 tickets left for people who's teams could get to the final or he is not telling the truth and there are plenty of tickets being held back. But if he is telling the truth, then this shows more than anything how this is a private party for the Irish.

Oh FFS someone put this guy out of his misery before he repeats himself another 400 times.

There are a few thousand reserved for fans of the 2 finalists. Stick the offended gun back in it's holster for another while.

So what you are saying is then, is that Don Alfonso is lying ? So there are not 17,600 odd tickets already sold for the final ? These are hos words not mine :-


Coincidentally, there's 400 tickets left for the final. Of 18,000.

So you tell me, are you lying or is he ?

Lord Dowlais - would a pro 12 (24??) structure that allowed for 8 welsh teams using the old identities be something that would help the welsh situation? Even if 4 of them were on low budgets?

TJ wrote:Lord Dowlais - would a pro 12 (24??) structure that allowed for 8 welsh teams using the old identities be something that would help the welsh situation?  Even if 4 of them were on low budgets?

To be honest TJ I do not think it would, we need all our best players playing together regularly, we do not have enough decent players to cover 8 teams, I would say we could have five teams, adding North Wales to what we have now, but the set-up from the start was all wrong, in my opinion, and I know I could get slated by my fellow Welsh brethren on here, but there should not be Ospreys AND Scarlets, there should be a West Wales based team, there should be a Mid Wales based team(Valleys) and there should be an East Wales team and a North Wales team. But that would cause even worst murders than we have now. So we have got what we have got and we might as well try and make it work.

Also I know this sounds a little harsh, but I do not think the Italians should be in our league either, I think they should be replaced by either another two Scottish sides, or another Scottish side and another Welsh or Irish side.

I hope this answers your question.

Personally I think the 2 division thing is a no goer. The only reason it would even be desirable is so that the Welsh could go back to 8 clubs which a lot seem to want. I would worry that this would dilute the quality of the teams too much leading to more Welsh players leaving for England/France but it’s up to them to an extent.

IMO, the source of new teams will be Caley Reds, Borders (less likely) or North Wales or if the Italians get themselves sorted out and want more teams. At the moment this seems a long way off. I know it has become popular to say they are simply where Scotland was a few years ago but that is selective memory.

In 5yrs in the comp, Treviso have finished 7th once and the record other than that is 10th-12th. Since the single league format started in 2003, there have been 2 seasons where no Scottish team was in the top 6 and 2 season where both were. The situation is not comparable. The Italians need to sort it out or be cut loose.

LordDowlais wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Guys, listen to what Don Alfonso is saying. OUT OF THE 18,000 TICKETS ON SALE ONLY 400 ARE LEFT. Now to me this is one of two things, either he is telling the truth, and there are 400 tickets left for people who's teams could get to the final or he is not telling the truth and there are plenty of tickets being held back. But if he is telling the truth, then this shows more than anything how this is a private party for the Irish.

Oh FFS someone put this guy out of his misery before he repeats himself another 400 times.

There are a few thousand reserved for fans of the 2 finalists. Stick the offended gun back in it's holster for another while.

So what you are saying is then, is that Don Alfonso is lying ? So there are not 17,600 odd tickets already sold for the final ? These are hos words not mine :-


Coincidentally,  there's 400 tickets left for the final. Of 18,000.

So you tell me, are you lying or is he ?

Or is it door number 3? Where someone is not correct or 'lying' but simply incorrect? Does than not seem a bit more reasonable?

Ta chaps. Just thinking out loud really and looking for ways to make the welsh fans happy.

Weegie Wizard wrote:The Italians need to sort it out or be cut loose.

I agree.

LordDowlais wrote:So you tell me, are you lying or is he ?

No-one is lying. One poster made a small mistake. 400 tickets are left of the allocation which is on public sale. There will be a number held back for each of the finalists. I do not know what it is.

I bet that if Ulster aren't there there will still be gaps in the crowd, because however small the allocation for the two finalists are, the only teams that can guarantee selling their allocation out in a week are Ulster (benefit of home advantage) and Leinster (2 hours up the road and the largest fan base)

Weegie Wizard wrote:Or is it door number 3? Where someone is not correct or 'lying' but simply incorrect? Does than not seem a bit more reasonable? Rolling Eyes

Ok, lets change lying with incorrect then, but where are all the people jumping around telling people they should get their facts right ect, like what has been told to me on this debate ?

TJ wrote:Ta chaps.  Just thinking out loud really and looking for ways to make the welsh fans happy.

That will never happen! You might as well be thinking up recipes for Flying Pig

Notch wrote:the only teams that can guarantee selling their allocation out in a week are Ulster (benefit of home advantage) and Leinster (2 hours up the road and the largest fan base)

Well let us hope for a Leinster Vs Ulster final then.

There are only 2,000 tickets per team being held back. Glasgow will definitely sell them out when we win our semi and I would be amazed if Munster couldn't. Have you all gone mad?

Notch wrote:That will never happen! You might as well be thinking up recipes for Flying Pig Smile

Funny, that is exactly what comes to mind when I wait for any admission of wrong doing by the Irish on here, thankfully the Irish friends I have do not seem to be like some of you on here.

LordDowlais wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Guys, listen to what Don Alfonso is saying. OUT OF THE 18,000 TICKETS ON SALE ONLY 400 ARE LEFT. Now to me this is one of two things, either he is telling the truth, and there are 400 tickets left for people who's teams could get to the final or he is not telling the truth and there are plenty of tickets being held back. But if he is telling the truth, then this shows more than anything how this is a private party for the Irish.

Oh FFS someone put this guy out of his misery before he repeats himself another 400 times.

There are a few thousand reserved for fans of the 2 finalists. Stick the offended gun back in it's holster for another while.

So what you are saying is then, is that Don Alfonso is lying ? So there are not 17,600 odd tickets already sold for the final ? These are hos words not mine :-


Coincidentally,  there's 400 tickets left for the final. Of 18,000.

So you tell me, are you lying or is he ?

Nope. There's 400 tickets left on general sale. 4000 are held for the 2 finalists.

Notch wrote:

TJ wrote:Ta chaps.  Just thinking out loud really and looking for ways to make the welsh fans happy.

That will never happen! You might as well be thinking up recipes for Flying Pig

Ok - so what is the way forward then? Clearly the welsh are the least happy with the current set up so what can be done to increase the value and give the welsh more of what they want.

What about the other points about better marketing, attracting kids etc? Womens / youth / second team games before the main event?

TJ wrote:Lord Dowlais - would a pro 12 (24??) structure that allowed for 8 welsh teams using the old identities be something that would help the welsh situation?  Even if 4 of them were on low budgets?

Nope not one bit.

There is not enough money for 8 teams even if 4 were on lower budgets as you would still have some of the arguments we had when Regions were brought in, as in how do you decide what 4 should be on the higher budget etc etc.

I have said for a long while now that the Regions need to concentrate on the future and market themselves to the kids, their generation know nothing of the old clubs unless they are either told it through family or are involved with junior rugby in local towns/villages.

People of my generation have by now either decided to accept Regionalism and support their Region or they haven't and won't support their Region. You may get the odd one or two who will eventually come around to the Regional side if their Region maybe gets success but in general the decisions as to where you are for or against Regionalism has been made.

Weegie Wizard wrote:There are only 2,000 tickets per team being held back. Glasgow will definitely sell them out when we win our semi and I would be amazed if Munster couldn't. Have you all gone mad?

You only have a week, it will be interesting to see... at least its not on a Friday Night

I think Glasgow will have more interest that Ospreys or Munster. Munster fans are used to European knock-out games, so this isn't much of a big deal to them. Ospreys fans are too busy complaining about the whole system to actually get off their couch and go to a rugby game featuring their team, and that won't change for the final

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Guys, listen to what Don Alfonso is saying. OUT OF THE 18,000 TICKETS ON SALE ONLY 400 ARE LEFT. Now to me this is one of two things, either he is telling the truth, and there are 400 tickets left for people who's teams could get to the final or he is not telling the truth and there are plenty of tickets being held back. But if he is telling the truth, then this shows more than anything how this is a private party for the Irish.

Oh FFS someone put this guy out of his misery before he repeats himself another 400 times.

There are a few thousand reserved for fans of the 2 finalists. Stick the offended gun back in it's holster for another while.

So what you are saying is then, is that Don Alfonso is lying ? So there are not 17,600 odd tickets already sold for the final ? These are hos words not mine :-


Coincidentally,  there's 400 tickets left for the final. Of 18,000.

So you tell me, are you lying or is he ?

Nope. There's 400 tickets left on general sale. 4000 are held for the 2 finalists.

Why the laugh ? Don has said that there are 400 tickets left for the final, out of 18,000. He said nothing about general sale, or 4000 being held back. I understand he made a mistake, so please point your laugh at him.

TJ wrote:
Ok - so what is the way forward then?  Clearly the welsh are the least happy with the current set up so what can be done to increase the value and give the welsh more of what they want.

A campaign for a competition that will enable the celtic teams to have a chance of increased tv money. At the moment, the pro12 doesn't stand a chance.

Sorry I just realised that you were pointing at him, did not see the bold bit.

From the outside it looks to me that part of the problem is or has been that the regions have half tried to link with some clubs but not others. The Blues appear to be the worst offenders here. Were they not supposed to be representing more than just Cardiff RFC?

I presume this is something the Welsh have done to death over the last 10 years so apologies if so.

Which is chunky? I made a suggestion that was shot down - have you a realistic suggestion?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

TJ wrote:
Ok - so what is the way forward then?  Clearly the welsh are the least happy with the current set up so what can be done to increase the value and give the welsh more of what they want.

A campaign for a competition that will enable the celtic teams to have a chance of increased tv money. At the moment, the pro12 doesn't stand a chance.

There you go again, most of us are happy with the set up and pretty much all the fans I chat to when I get to games are happy with the whole set up. Yes there are some who are not but they are the minority not the majority and that is their choice, we have freedom of speech/thought etc so they are entitled to it.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

TJ wrote:
Ok - so what is the way forward then?  Clearly the welsh are the least happy with the current set up so what can be done to increase the value and give the welsh more of what they want.

A campaign for a competition that will enable the celtic teams to have a chance of increased tv money. At the moment, the pro12 doesn't stand a chance.

There you go again, most of us are happy with the set up and pretty much all the fans I chat to when I get to games are happy with the whole set up.  Yes there are some who are not but they are the minority not the majority and that is their choice, we have freedom of speech/thought etc so they are entitled to it.

So I'm not allowed to answer a question now?

The Welsh cannot go back to 8 clubs. We struggle enough in the league and Europe as it is. Imagine watering those teams down with premiership players to make up 8 teams! Yikes. Then split the WRU money 8 ways instead off 4. Double yikes!

If it's traditional rivalries we're hankering for in Wales and the old clubs then I think we need to either:

A) Improve the Welsh Premiership to a point where that satisfies the thirst for local derbies and traditional fixtures. I'd love our Welsh Prem to be like the NPC in NZ where the players from the 5 super rugby franchises actually play for these 2nd tier teams at certain points. But that would cost a lot to do and would need a restructure to the season as the players would play too many games.

Or

B) We go back to pro clubs but we give 4 (or maybe 5) pro licences. Clubs have to put together a business case to represent Wales in the Pro12 (how I would have done it back in 2002). So let's say that Cardiff, Newport, Llanelli, Swansea and Pontypridd get a licence. They are then removed form the Welsh Prem (obviously, beacuse they can't be on two places at once) and 5 teams are promoted from the league below to the prem. Maybe 5 year licences. Licences could be reviewed and anyone performing poorly, let's say Newport, can have their licence revoked and get their asses busted back down to the Welsh Prem to be replaced by someone else. That way we get the original clubs with their supposedly better support but we also limit it to a manageable number of teams in terms of player pool. However, this would be moving further away from the Irish/NZ provincial model that we seem to be building towards. And this extra autonomy would be at odds with the union controlled/involved way we're heading.

So, nothing solid from me!

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Guys, listen to what Don Alfonso is saying. OUT OF THE 18,000 TICKETS ON SALE ONLY 400 ARE LEFT. Now to me this is one of two things, either he is telling the truth, and there are 400 tickets left for people who's teams could get to the final or he is not telling the truth and there are plenty of tickets being held back. But if he is telling the truth, then this shows more than anything how this is a private party for the Irish.

Oh FFS someone put this guy out of his misery before he repeats himself another 400 times.

There are a few thousand reserved for fans of the 2 finalists. Stick the offended gun back in it's holster for another while.

So what you are saying is then, is that Don Alfonso is lying ? So there are not 17,600 odd tickets already sold for the final ? These are hos words not mine :-


Coincidentally,  there's 400 tickets left for the final. Of 18,000.

So you tell me, are you lying or is he ?

Nope. There's 400 tickets left on general sale. 4000 are held for the 2 finalists.

Why the laugh ? Don has said that there are 400 tickets left for the final, out of 18,000. He said nothing about general sale, or 4000 being held back. I understand he made a mistake, so please point your laugh at him.

No, I wasn't laughing at Don. I was laughing at you tripping over yourself to accept anything which even hints that the Provinces have it wrong, as fact. I was also having a giggle with your logic. Don makes an easy mistake, and for you that's lying.

Back in your box

Ok - so a noisy minority have skewed my view? Certainly of all the posts on here decrying the pro 12 the majority seem to be from welsh fans? Again - I accept what you say and its very pleasing to hear.

See wizards post above - its certainly how it appears on here but I guess thats not really representative then?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

TJ wrote:
Ok - so what is the way forward then?  Clearly the welsh are the least happy with the current set up so what can be done to increase the value and give the welsh more of what they want.

A campaign for a competition that will enable the celtic teams to have a chance of increased tv money. At the moment, the pro12 doesn't stand a chance.

There you go again, most of us are happy with the set up and pretty much all the fans I chat to when I get to games are happy with the whole set up.  Yes there are some who are not but they are the minority not the majority and that is their choice, we have freedom of speech/thought etc so they are entitled to it.

So I'm not allowed to answer a question now?

Chunky = that was aimed at me not you

Griff - ta for the answer. I shall have to go away nd ponder some more but it would appear a noisy minority have skewed my view of the consensus amongst welsh fans - and for that I apologise.

Notch wrote:

Weegie Wizard wrote:There are only 2,000 tickets per team being held back. Glasgow will definitely sell them out when we win our semi and I would be amazed if Munster couldn't. Have you all gone mad?

You only have a week, it will be interesting to see... at least its not on a Friday Night

I think Glasgow will have more interest that Ospreys or Munster. Munster fans are used to European knock-out games, so this isn't much of a big deal to them. Ospreys fans are too busy complaining about the whole system to actually get off their couch and go to a rugby game featuring their team, and that won't change for the final

Which Ospreys fans? On here? I don't think there are any. Wayne? I think he likes the Pro12.

TJ, I will give you an answer to your questions, it's what I have been saying all through this debate. We all need to admit our own wrong doings first though, but sadly, people on here think that their unions/teams/fans are squeaky clean and have done no wrong, but here goes.

Firstly, us Welsh have not helped our league with our in-fighting, and letting all our best players leave, but thankfully we seem to be getting past this now, no more in-fighting, players coming back, so what we are doing, it will help the league.

Secondly, the IRFU/Provinces/Branches need to stop prioritising Europe over OUR league, for my liking they should be doing things the other way around, play their star players in the league, and put their lesser players in Europe, but sadly that will never happen. How can our league be taken seriously when the people involved do not see it as a priority ?

Thirdly, the Scottish union needs to start getting it's act together, you need more clubs, also you need to stop Edinburgh signing bog standard time serving players that nobody has ever heard of, these types of players bring nothing to our league.

Lastly, the Italians seriously need to start upping their game, why we should be servicing two sides that bring nothing to our league is a mystery. Ok, I am all for giving out helping hands, but they have been here long enough now, they should not be the bottom two sides every year, they are five points away from home for everybody, this needs to end.

So to wrap it all up, all the unions involved need to stop suiting themselves and start doing what is best for the league, until this happens we will keep getting paltry amounts from the sponsors and the TV companies. I hope I have given you a fair enough answer on this.

TJ wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

TJ wrote:
Ok - so what is the way forward then?  Clearly the welsh are the least happy with the current set up so what can be done to increase the value and give the welsh more of what they want.

A campaign for a competition that will enable the celtic teams to have a chance of increased tv money. At the moment, the pro12 doesn't stand a chance.

There you go again, most of us are happy with the set up and pretty much all the fans I chat to when I get to games are happy with the whole set up.  Yes there are some who are not but they are the minority not the majority and that is their choice, we have freedom of speech/thought etc so they are entitled to it.

So I'm not allowed to answer a question now?

Chunky = that was aimed at me not you

Yes it was TJ

Chunky I don't agree with your views but as I said they are your views and in the main I respect them. The league is not totally right but not as bad as some would suggest and I think on these boards things are taken to personally by people who we really don't know other than by the user name, if we all agreed with each other it would be a pretty damn boring place.

I do think the new format of qualification will help and as I have said already the fact that that we have mid table games having meaning to them now rather than dead rubbers is a start on previous years.

TJ wrote:Ok - so a noisy minority have skewed my view?  Certainly of all the posts on here decrying the pro 12 the majority seem to be from welsh fans?  Again - I accept what you say and its very pleasing to hear.

See wizards post above - its certainly how it appears on here but I guess thats not really representative then?

TJ,as I have posted earlier on this thread, I like the Pro12, I have no interest in a B&I League.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Chunky I don't agree with your views but as I said they are your views and in the main I respect them.  The league is not totally right but not as bad as some would suggest and I think on these boards things are taken to personally by people who we really don't know other than by the user name, if we all agreed with each other it would be a pretty damn boring place.

I do think the new format of qualification will help and as I have said already the fact that that we have mid table games having meaning to them now rather than dead rubbers is a start on previous years.

Fair dos

Ta.

Edinburgh have a specific issue in that the team had got used to losing and the quality of home grown talent was not really there or ready yet and bringing youngsters into a losing team will just make them losers as well - Solomans went for players he knew to build a winning team then to bring on the youngsters into a winning team - thats his plan - so hopefully we will see less of the journey man types in the next couple of years. Edinburgh fans don't like this either but I can see the logic in what he has done. I would expect many of these journeyman SH types to move on in the next season

Lord dowlais - what we need to do is start beating the irish "Weakened" teams abit more often to force them to play their best week in week out. they are still sitting atop the league by and large.

Griff wrote:The Welsh cannot go back to 8 clubs. We struggle enough in the league and Europe as it is. Imagine watering those teams down with premiership players to make up 8 teams! Yikes. Then split the WRU money 8 ways instead off 4. Double yikes!

If it's traditional rivalries we're hankering for in Wales and the old clubs then I think we need to either:

A) Improve the Welsh Premiership to a point where that satisfies the thirst for local derbies and traditional fixtures. I'd love our Welsh Prem to be like the NPC in NZ where the players from the 5 super rugby franchises actually play for these 2nd tier teams at certain points. But that would cost a lot to do and would need a restructure to the season as the players would play too many games.

Or

B) We go back to pro clubs but we give 4 (or maybe 5) pro licences. Clubs have to put together a business case to represent Wales in the Pro12 (how I would have done it back in 2002). So let's say that Cardiff, Newport, Llanelli, Swansea and Pontypridd get a licence. They are then removed form the Welsh Prem (obviously, beacuse they can't be on two places at once) and 5 teams are promoted from the league below to the prem. Maybe 5 year licences. Licences could be reviewed and anyone performing poorly, let's say Newport, can have their licence revoked and get their asses busted back down to the Welsh Prem to be replaced by someone else. That way we get the original clubs with their supposedly better support but we also limit it to a manageable number of teams in terms of player pool. However, this would be moving further away from the Irish/NZ provincial model that we seem to be building towards. And this extra autonomy would be at odds with the union controlled/involved way we're heading.

So, nothing solid from me!

Just to argue against myself here: one more problem we've got in Wales is that the regions are now 12 years old. Some people have only known the regions. To go back to Swansea or Neath would mean losing fans who only knows Ospreys! I've mentioned before that my crowd at the Dragons is made up of a load of guys from Pontypool, Cwmbran and Blaenavon. They've said on numberous occasions thay they've got no interest in supporting Newport so would walk away if we went back to it. We'd lose those fans. So we can't go back IMO. My point B above is a no go, IMO.

Griff wrote:They've said on numberous occasions thay they've got no interest in supporting Newport so would walk away if we went back to it.

Even though their official name is Newport?

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/

As TJ mentioned, I think the SRU is at long last on the right track with the pro teams which may allow us the option of the Caley Reds in the medium to long term - something that is almost unanimously supported in Scotland.

I hope you are all right about the WRU/RRW infighting being over. That alone will attract a few of your exiles back to Wales I think.

I also think the fact that Leinster look like they will miss out on playoffs might help the IRFU focus on the league to a greater extent. We will see.

So we are sorted then?

Weegie Wizard wrote:

So we are sorted then?

If you're happy with the £30m gap in tv revenue between us and the English then yep.

TJ wrote:Lord dowlais - what we need to do is start beating the irish "Weakened" teams abit more often to force them to play their best week in week out.  they are still sitting atop the league by and large.

One of the rare occasions I agree with him LD. Also, you can't really hold it against the Irish for rotating their squad if they have the depth. It's not as if their results and attendance figures are greatly effected.

TJ wrote:Lord dowlais - what we need to do is start beating the irish "Weakened" teams abit more often to force them to play their best week in week out.  they are still sitting atop the league by and large.

Very difficult when the fixtures are in the international period. 5 out of 8 fixtures for my team against Irish teams have been played when our squad has been decimated through Wales callups, Wales u20 callups and Warren Gatlands private cotton wool excercise.

Thats a real problem for the scots teams as well. But if the irish really rest their stars more ( and I am not at all sure of that) the way to punish them is on the pitch

Maybe the answer to that is make the international periods Derby time?

The Saint wrote:

TJ wrote:Lord dowlais - what we need to do is start beating the irish "Weakened" teams abit more often to force them to play their best week in week out.  they are still sitting atop the league by and large.

One of the rare occasions I agree with him LD. Also, you can't really hold it against the Irish for rotating their squad if they have the depth. It's not as if their results and attendance figures are greatly effected.

Yes, he is right, so with Leinster looking like they are out of the play-offs this year it might change their tune, but only when they are fighting for European spaces will things change in that respect, look, the Irish are doing nothing wrong by resting their big name players, but what they are not doing is helping the league, and getting better sponsor and TV revenues for the league, they are happy to qualify for the scraps off the table that the English and French have backhandedly thrown us, and play their best players in that farce of a competition as well, and then they shout at us for wanting to jump into bed with them, why would they want to play their best player in a different competition to their own. Unless they see the European Cup as their own competition.

TJ wrote:Thats a real problem for the scots teams as well.  But if the irish really rest their stars more ( and I am not at all sure of that) the way to punish them is on the pitch

I think the link that was posted earleir today proves that the Irish rest their stars more. I'm not aware that any other nation prohibits their pro teams from playing in more than 36% of Pro12 matches.

Quite a lot of the Welsh v Irish pro 12 matches get played during the 6N too. For some odd, totally random reason I'm sure.

TJ wrote:Maybe the answer to that is make the international periods Derby time?

No the real answer is to not play any games during the international period.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Griff wrote:They've said on numberous occasions thay they've got no interest in supporting Newport so would walk away if we went back to it.

Even though their official name is Newport?

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/

Yes, regardless of the official name, which most of us Dragons fans feel is outdated, the non-newport boys I watch with still feel that this is a genuine Gwent team. They feel it represents them. They wouldn't go otherwise. But they do not feel an affiliation to Newport as a standalone team. That's just how they feel.

Griff wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Griff wrote:They've said on numberous occasions thay they've got no interest in supporting Newport so would walk away if we went back to it.

Even though their official name is Newport?

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/

Yes, regardless of the official name, which most of us Dragons fans feel is outdated, the non-newport boys I watch with still feel that this is a genuine Gwent team. They feel it represents them. They wouldn't go otherwise. But they do not feel an affiliation to Newport as a standalone team. That's just how they feel.

Fair dos to them. This also means that Cardiff dropping the name Cardiff to appeal to a wider audience is a redundant point then.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Griff wrote:They've said on numberous occasions thay they've got no interest in supporting Newport so would walk away if we went back to it.

Even though their official name is Newport?

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/

Yep he's right.

I am an Ebbw boy born and bred but follow Newport Gwent Dragons I wouldn't however go to watch Newport play unless they were playing Ebbw.

The Region does a hell of a lot of work in the Gwent Region something I thin is enhanced by having a Gwent/Ebbw lad there in Kingsley.  I can't remember the last time I heard anything other than Dragons being chanted at a game certainly you don't have the Newport chants anymore.

I was there for the quarter final game and after that there was the Newport v Keys Prem league fixture being played, now in amongst the fans on the Hazell Terrace were lads and ladies with Newport RFC tops on but during the match they were Dragons supporters and chanted Dragons not Newport.

During the Prem game they reverted to supporting Newport again not a problem as I then as a neutral supported Keys.

I must admit I do on occasions get some funny looks when people see me with a Dragons shirt on then an Ebbw hat or jacket etc but I like to see the look of confusion.

So just to play devils advocate here, where have all the Newport fans gone then ? Have they now started supporting the Dragons as a totally separate entity ? I ask this genuinely because when the Warriors disbanded I went to support Dragons as most of our players went there, but I was massively put off by the Newport fan base down there, I accept now that things have changed a lot, but is it because the fans have accepted it, or is it because they are different fans that are going there ?