The Cardiff Blues.

What is the future for the Blues now?
Is Dai Young the right man?
Will they ever become a truly proper region?

Dai Young, the man often touted as the future coach for Wales, has now been in charge at Cardiff and now the Blues for around 10 years, in that time they have won the EDF and the Amlin once each and got to a semi final of the Heineken, is that a good enough return for the capital city team?

The region has two academy's Blues North and Blues South, but up to now very few academy players have made it through from either, indeed there are stories that some players wont sign up for the Blues because they would have to turn out for Cardiff RFC. Have the region done enough to quell peoples fears about being swallowed by the "Auld enemy", what more could they do?

Bob Norster is frequently on record as saying there is no way that the Cardiff Blues would ever ditch the "Cardiff" tag but would that one gesture really make that much difference? Will those from the Rhondda valley ever travel down to the CCS just to watch "their" region?

The team is over full of ageing NWQ players and WQ players, and in addition they have Dan Parks at flyhalf, not the most inventive of players who many accuse of holding the team back from playing the expansive rugby fans want to see. Is DY the man to take them forward, does he have the vision needed to reinvent the team now to equip it for the future. Over the next two years this team is going to change beyond recognition, is DY the man for the job?

One thing that would help them massively is to drop the Cardiff from their name. They alienate so much of their support base my persisting with it. Another thing they could do is actually work to promote the game outside of Cardiff. Of all the regions I have seen them do the least work in this, they are not helping themselves at all.

It is a huge worry, the lack of players they have coming through, especially in the forwards. They have an ageing pack that have struggled this season, so I fear for them in the future.

Yes, under Dai Young they have achieved but they are capable of so, so much more. I believe he is a good coach but his recruitment (or who recruits for him) have done a bad job, and the position of OH definitely needs to be looked at.

There is a lot of promise at the BLues but until they start bringing through more youngsters I really do fear for them. There are a lot of questions to be answered with this so called region and they need to be answered quickly, because Welsh rugby needs the Blues to be strong in order for them to succeed.

What is the future for the Blues now?
Is Dai Young the right man?
Will they ever become a truly proper region?

Start buying players from the Dragons
He may be the right man with enough money to buy players as they don't bring through their own players.
No never but that applies to all the super clubs but Cardiff are the worst offenders.

The Blues shouldn't be a proper regions. They should the Cardiff metropolitan area. There are more than enough people in the area. But this would require a valleys region and a complete re-jig

The Dragons and Ospreys are valleys regions. If you want proper regions you could have:

Caerdydd. Cardiff (the Mercantiles)
Gwent. Gwent (the Steelmen)
Morgannwg. Glamorgan (the Colliers)
Cefn Gwlad. Heart of Wales (the Hambones)

But it comes back to whether you play at multiple grounds to keep your hinterland happy or play in one place to pay off your debt on a new stadium?

Or the Joskins.

Or Sons of the Land.

I discounted this earlier as the Heart of Wales Sons of the Land is too long a title.

Or the Quarrymen.

Cardiff were a stand alone region. They have never pretended to be anything else. they are actually worse off than before because pre regionalism they cherry picked the best players from Bridgend and Pontypridd, now its just pontypridd!

to be fair to the blues they have developed the robinson brothers, warburton, bradley davies? and jamie roberts recently. Think their problem is that they've recruited badly over the last two season and the move to the football stadium hasn't worked out.

Cardiff are an ageing side and desperately need to develop new players.

G Williams, Filise, Tito, Gethin, Deiniol, M Williams, Rush and Molitika are a pack of forwards you could see starting a game and every one is 30+ and it is starting to show.

They do have some excellent youngsters in there such as Brad Davies, Pretorius and Warburton but not enough.

Add that to having Dan Parks at 10 and I would say a clear out is looming.

Firstly with the advent of regionalism Cardiff were selected as a stand alone club. They have never intended to embrace it, and never even pretended to, their name is Cardiff Blues they play in blue and black and are Cardiff rfc in every sense of the word.
Historically Cardiff have always taken their players from Pontypridd and Bridgend, they also got a smattering of other based on the fact that they were always the richest team.
Their lack of success in recent times is down to several factors. When a Welsh international player becomes available it's generally the Ospreys in the hunt for him, not the Blues. Secondly the Blues have lost the Bridgend area, which has had a catastrophic effect on them.
Cardiff have until recently leaned on Pontypridd quite a lot, especially in recruitment from their club for young players. They, up until a few weeks ago had Dale Mcintosh as an duel Blues / Pontypridd employee. However due to the recent fight in a pub, they fired him. You wonder what knock on effect this split will have on relations between Ponty and the Blues. Basically they sacked the second most loved player Ponty have ever had behind Neil Jenkins. Clearly Pontypridd dont have the resources of many teams in the Welsh Premiership or the second division English teams, yet their young team did well in the Welsh league and gave a decent account in the British cup.

David Young also has a major problem with judging ability amongst backs. They lost Nicky Robinson. So Young brought in an Australian full back to be his fly half. Clearly this didn't work, as the player looked ill at ease at fly half at Magners league level, and was shocking at times.
Young's solution to replacing Norton-Knight was to bring in Dan Parks. Fair enough Parks did have a few man of the match displays for Scotland but Scotland biggest problem for many years has been a lack of creativity and tries scored. Why is anyone suprised Cardiff now have this problem?

Personally I think the Blues need a clear out of players and to give youth a chance. Then they need to seriously look at either replacing Young or at least bringing in a good backs coach who has the ability to have a major say on whom is brought in to the squad, because Dai is a decent head coach / forwards coach, but his teams have terrible trouble amongst the backs.

Building the new stadium was a complete waste of time and money. The WRU have already asked Cardiff to play there, and youd think this could of been arranged at minimal cost. If Cardiff FC join Swansea in the premier league, you can believe that Cardiffs new stadium will be to small.
The liberty stadium has already sold 50% of its capacity to season ticket holders and that was BEFORE the play off final.

What is the future for the Blues now?

To be honest i don't really see there being a problem with the Blues right now, a few weeks ago before their losses in derby matches (to the Dragons away and Scarlets away) there were questions on 606 about whether or not they were the new flag bearers of Wales. They do have an aging squad, but they also have a fair few younger players coming through. Also the majority of their younger players are already internationals, with a few of them (Warburton, Davies, Roberts, and Halfpenny) being first team internationals. The only problem I can see for the Blues is that their signings over the last few seasons have been a bit of a disappointment. However I believe that they have said that they (along with the other regions) are not looking to make too many signings this season and to look to the regional clubs to provide the players.

Is Dai Young the right man?

I am not too sure about Dai Young, at times i think he is the Blues biggest problem, because he is just too 'nice'. Maybe if he had a 'nasty' assistant coach. That said he does seem to get the team working more often than not.

Will they ever become a truly proper region?

It all depends how you see regions. Cardiff in itself has a huge population, and could possibly justify being a region in its own right. That said the region does encompass other teams, so I think that the Blues need to look at their marketing towards the other sides within the region. However as i have said earlier if the Blues are looking to the region to provide players for the coming season/s then maybe by playing a few Pontypridd boys in the ML or HC games they will encourage a bit more support from the surrounding areas. But I know from presonal experience the view from outside of a region is not always how it is seen from inside the regions (i.e people saying the Scarlets are just Llanelli, and the Dragons are just Newport which is not the case).

What is it with South Walians and their constant belly aching about valleys rugby and the lack of opportunities for lads 5 miles north of Cardiff. Wake up, get real and cut out this parochial nonsense.

Come up to my neck of the woods (North/Mid Wales) and then you would relish an opportunity to get involved with a region on your doorstep. Up north we are 100-150 miles away from a rugby centre (yes RGC etc.etc.). Cut out this childish bickering, it stinks.

Turning to Dai Young, his time should be up, he has had his chance. there needs to be a new man at the helm to revitalise these players and kick out some of the dead wood/foreigners.

An ageing team. More NWQ players than any other region. A high percentage of their fans are not happy with playing at the CCS. A lotif young's foreign players have been excellent signings, but there hasn't been an emphasis based on gradually adding quality to the squad. They would be in a season of transition but they're aren't any new faces coming in, so you'd imagine they'll go backwards next season. You have to ask what benigit filise, molitika or parks are doing for welsh rugby? It's not just there comprehensive defeats to the scarlets and dragons that is the only worry. It's the manner in which they lost these games and the style of rugby being played!
You could argue there gates are higher than any other region, but I've been there 3 times and have been handed free tickets by strangers outside the ground.
The fact that they aren't bringing anyone in says to me that things haven't gone how they'd expected when they moved stadium and the losses are far bigger than they'd want us to believe.

I won't have a bad word said about Molitika he has been an outstanding servant in his 2nd stint with us. Time has caught up with him now, though, and don't see the benefit of him being there next season - unless it's in a reduced role where he plays in LV Cup matches.

Pretorios is our 6 for next season. Anyways, to the questions!

What is the future for the Blues now?
I am not sure if it is a case of rebuilding the squad, just simply supplementing it. Yes we do have an aging pack but i still feel that it can compete with the best teams. When everyone is fit, our pack is still a very good one...i guess thing haven't worked this season for us and you can point the fingers at the players but, for me, i'd be pointing them at the forwards coach Justin Burnell. He has turned the pack the played so well for the last few years in one that seems clueless at times and slow.

We have the players...Gethin Jenkins, Bradley Davies, Sam Warburton, Xavier Rush & Andries Pretorious...with them all fit and playing well, things can go our way. But if one or two get injured then our frailties show...Everyone knows we need a tight head but i would suggest we also need a Hooker and a second row. There's a ponty youngster who looked pretty sharp when he played, Kristian Baller is it? Why not give him a go at Hooker? We have some young props coming through too, like Scott Andrews & Sam Hobbs. yes Andrews has had some torrid times against better scrummagers but he's young, he still has time to get better and don't we always see props come into their peak nearer their 30's? As mentioned, I like the prospect of Sam Hobbs in the front row too. He's a decent prop for a young lad and isn't afraid to mix it physically and defend himself (see the Munster game in March).

The worry, for me, is second row. Deiniol, for how great a servant and how unsung his work has been, is no longer the answer. Tito has never been up to much in the scrum and with our lineout being pretty disasterous last season, with him being the lineout captain...we may have to look at changing that. There's a big second row who has played a few times for the blues who should be given a chance...can't remember his name, Downes?

We need to rely more on youth, which will benefit us in the long term.

Is Dai Young the right man?
Currently, yes. But we can't have another season of this. The blues fans have been patience with Dai, from him learning his trade to now...but after this season, we can't have another. I think he has a difficult job with Uncle Peter looking over his shoulder but this season has to be an improvement. If not, then the fans may start to turn on him. The Minimum is a Heineken Cup Quarter Final, LV Cup Semi Final & a strong Magners League campaign. If we're serious in challenging the best sides, it's time for us to deliver some consistancy.

Will they ever become a truly proper region?
We're as much of a proper region as we can be. I don't get this myth that we don't do much for valley's rugby, it's tosh. With our primary feeder teams being Ponty & Cardiff, we have a difficult job. How much can you do for a club like Ponty who adamantly do not want to be part of the region? Take a look at the Pontypridd RFC wikipedia page, this is taken from it:

Despite remaining successful at the highest level attainable by a non-regional side, Pontypridd RFC has seen a huge loss in their fan base due to the disenfranchisement of Welsh rugby supporters in the Valleys[23] over to the appointment of Cardiff Blues as their 'regional' team. Yet despite this, Pontypridd's hardcore support base remains one of the biggest club followings in Wales, with chants of "I will never be a blue" ringing out at matches alongside the more traditional "Ole, Ole, Ole, Ole! Ponty! Ponty!

Do we stage a game at Sardis Road? Could do but will it win over their fans? Not likely. Far too many Ponty fans have a chip on their shoulder and will never embrace a region with Cardiff in the name. Can the name be taken out? Sure, but before that can be done there needs to be some sign coming from Ponty that they will embrace regionalism and stop feeling hard done by. They act like the whole world is against them and they're getting wronged at every corner by anyone and everyone...but that has always been the Ponty ethos hasn't it?

Speaking of which, i feel the blues should bring up Paul john and have him as skills/backs coach. Was a good player and has done the business with ponty & learned the coaching trade within the wru on the 7s circuit. I have said before that we should get the chief in from ponty as forwards coach because we need someone like that but i read that the blues fired him after that fracas he was involved in. That would be a shame if true, he could have been utilised.

Good analysis gcblues. One question though regarding your expectations. Do you think you'll actually get into the last 8 of the HC. I know a lot will depend on how strong your group is and also do you think there's the possibility of the blues being 4th region next season and slipping into the amlin. There wasn't much between the regions last season and I for one think it'll be a fascinating battle. People expect the dragons to benefit from not having as many call-ups as the other regions for the WC, but we may have a few more on the plane than some people may think.

I think it depends on the draw, we're in the top pool in regards to seedings so i am holding out for a decent group. But any group will be a stinker because the teams in the 2nd seed pool are all pretty much better than us...except the ospreys I expect a dreadful group with 2 french teams and someone like Ulster who have recently overtaken us in the ML pecking order.

Amlin is a possibility, if we end up in it then it will have been because we haven't been good enough throughout the season. I still think we have enough in the tank to make a decent fist of next season, we just need to be lucky with injuries and the pool draw

Top man. As I said next season will be intriguing as far as the regions go.
Personally I think the HC quarters will probably be beyond the 3 welsh regions. I hope not though. I also think the dragons will have their work cutout in the amlin, but the ML will be very interesting and let's hope we get more than one region in the play-offs.

Welcome MoG - interesting fact about Hobo. I used to work in a pub called the Man of Gwent! off topic I know! Sorry - now continue!

I e never worked in the man of gwent but drank in there a few times!

I don't think you can have two French teams but you end up with two English sides.

ah fair enough, whatever the draw we will be in for a tough ride.

I just dont see why we dont go and drop the Cardiff from the name. I'm from Diff, and i dont called them the Cardiff Blues, they're just the Blues to me. When i watch HC Rugby on SS and Barnes or the bold one call the Scarlets "Lanelthi" or the Dragons Newport, it makes my skin crawl. Same when they call us Cardiff. Its time we embraced our mates from the North. Because they produce some fine players.

In regards to development it looks alright with this years Schools comp final being contested between two Blues region schools. Also, a replacment for Deniol and Tito must certainly be Cook, the U20's Skipper. He looked a fine player in the U20's 6 Nations and next season would be ideal to blood him with a lot of players away on WC duty.

Colerman - I competly agree, they should just be the Blue, I hate it when the people on Sky just call them Cardiff, it is a region afterall.

Yeah, i call them the 'blues' too.

I think they will, eventually, but not for a couple of years. I imagine it will be when you see the last of the pre-regional players retiring and more academy players coming in.

Or after we win the heineken cup...whatever comes first i guess

gcBlues - I think that all the regions will start to get a bit more of a real regional feeling when the older generation of player move on. That said looking at most the regions there are a health crop of players that have only every been regional players, so that time is coming around quick

Yeah, it's starting to get to the stage now where there are only a few players in and around the squad who remember the Cardiff RFC days. Martyn, Deiniol (although for other teams) and maybe Yapp & T R Thomas.

What we're seeing now is players coming in who have no real club ties but are regional players...if only we could say the same for some of the fans

I think it would be better if the players did have club ties. It would help the idea that the players step up from the clubs that are part of the region. Otherwise it's just the Blues academy (which I presume is in Cardiff) supplying the players.