England Announce Churchill Cup Squad

England Saxons squad for the Churchill Cup:

Forwards: D Attwood (Gloucester), M Botha (Saracens), K Brookes (Newcastle), J Crane (Leicester), J Gaskell (Sale), J Gibson (London Irish), J Gray (Harlequins), T Johnson (Exeter), G Kitchener (Worcester), M Mullan (Worcester), L Narraway (Gloucester), D Paice (London Irish), M Stevens (Saracens).

Backs: M Benjamin (Worcester), M Brown (Harlequins), R Clegg (Harlequins), A Goode (Saracens), P Hodgson (London Irish), T Ojo (London Irish), C Sharples (Gloucester), H Trinder (Gloucester), J Turner-Hall (Harlequins), B Twelvetrees (Leicester), M Young (Newcastle).

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Pleased with that apart from the odd selection. Mouritz Botha? He has been very good for Sarries, but it is just going to leave us open to criticism. It's not even like there aren't English born players who deserve the chance. The likes of George Robson (Harlequins), Christian Day (Northampton), Tim Swinson (Newcastle), Tom Denton (Leeds), George Skivington (Leicester), Ed Slater (Leicester) are deserving of a call up.

Team to start? Something like:

01. Stevens
02. Gray
03. Brookes
04. Attwood
05. Kitchener
06. Johnson
07. Gibson (?)
08. Narraway

09. Young
10. Clegg

11. Ojo
12. Twelvetrees
13. Trinder
14. Sharples
15. Brown

As a Welsh supporter, I see this squad and it worries me. England using the Churchill Cup to bring on talented youngsters rather than as a consolation to experienced players who didnt quite make the cut for the full National Squad?



Damn, The RFU might learn to make England's advantages in player numbers count yet!

I'm also disappointed with the Botha selection and agree that even aside from the residency issue both Robson and Day deserve a place above him based on form alone. I too am board with the criticism that will be leveled our way. I really wish the IRB would change the residency rule to something like 7 years.

Anyway, back to the actual squad. Think Stevens will push on and claim a place in the final WC squad, probably pushing Doran-Jones out as the 5th prop if England take that many. I think they are just trying to get him as many games in as possible to build his match fitness and scrum technique up. According to the ESPN commentators at the weekend England still see Stevens as a Tight Head and that's where he will play in these games but not sure how true that is. Also hope Goode plays a blinder and pushes Armitage out of the WC squad.

All in all, other than the Botha pick think it is a good squad.

I have no issue with the Botha pick at all. Based on form he has been excellent for Saracens all season and meets the qualification criteria having been here for a few years now, playing for Bedford in the Championship before joining Saracens.

In terms of best XV from that squad, you have to have Stevens in at 3, as he has said that England want him to play tighthead for the Saxons.

The only issue really for me is at 10, where I would have had Owen Farrell over Clegg rather than sending him off with the U20's.

LDCPete wrote:I have no issue with the Botha pick at all. Based on form he has been excellent for Saracens all season and meets the qualification criteria having been here for a few years now, playing for Bedford in the Championship before joining Saracens.

In terms of best XV from that squad, you have to have Stevens in at 3, as he has said that England want him to play tighthead for the Saxons.

The only issue really for me is at 10, where I would have had Owen Farrell over Clegg rather than sending him off with the U20's.

Ah right, I was under the impression that Stevens was attempting to remodel himself as an out and out loosehead, thats where I believe he has predominately been playing for Sarries.

RE: Botha, I know it seem hypocritical and dismissive to say it, but I just find myself thinking it is too much trouble to attempt to justify his selection to the fans of other nations. I am aware that he has spent a good long time over here, but it won't stop the usual suspects kicking up a stink about it.

10 could be an exciting battle, Farrell should take it. He's worked hard and had an outstanding season. You've got to believe there is going to be a good old tussle between the aforementioned and his contemporaries [Burns, Clegg, Ford, etc] for years to come. That is even without 'old man' Flood in the equation! Exciting times, although it is worth noting that I thought we had a golden generation of 10's before with the likes of Cipriani, Lamb, Geraghty and Flood coming through at roughly the same time.

Cumbrian wrote:

LDCPete wrote:I have no issue with the Botha pick at all. Based on form he has been excellent for Saracens all season and meets the qualification criteria having been here for a few years now, playing for Bedford in the Championship before joining Saracens.

In terms of best XV from that squad, you have to have Stevens in at 3, as he has said that England want him to play tighthead for the Saxons.

The only issue really for me is at 10, where I would have had Owen Farrell over Clegg rather than sending him off with the U20's.

Ah right, I was under the impression that Stevens was attempting to remodel himself as an out and out loosehead, thats where I believe he has predominately been playing for Sarries.

Yeah, he as been, but I saw an interview with him last week where he said he sees himself as a tighthead and that is where the Saxons have asked him to play. For what it's worth, which isn't a lot to be fair, I think he is actually better on the loosehead side, but what do I know.

Strong squad ,bit disappointed Nathan Catt didn't get a shout though.

Nathan Catt has just been injured too much this season. All the same, he's had some good game time, which should hold him in good stead for next season.

Cumbrian wrote:

LDCPete wrote:I have no issue with the Botha pick at all. Based on form he has been excellent for Saracens all season and meets the qualification criteria having been here for a few years now, playing for Bedford in the Championship before joining Saracens.

In terms of best XV from that squad, you have to have Stevens in at 3, as he has said that England want him to play tighthead for the Saxons.

The only issue really for me is at 10, where I would have had Owen Farrell over Clegg rather than sending him off with the U20's.

Ah right, I was under the impression that Stevens was attempting to remodel himself as an out and out loosehead, thats where I believe he has predominately been playing for Sarries.

RE: Botha, I know it seem hypocritical and dismissive to say it, but I just find myself thinking it is too much trouble to attempt to justify his selection to the fans of other nations. I am aware that he has spent a good long time over here, but it won't stop the usual suspects kicking up a stink about it.

10 could be an exciting battle, Farrell should take it. He's worked hard and had an outstanding season. You've got to believe there is going to be a good old tussle between the aforementioned and his contemporaries [Burns, Clegg, Ford, etc] for years to come. That is even without 'old man' Flood in the equation! Exciting times, although it is worth noting that I thought we had a golden generation of 10's before with the likes of Cipriani, Lamb, Geraghty and Flood coming through at roughly the same time.

Good point about the Golden Generation of 10's. Only Flood has kicked on and become an established International 10. The other 3 couldn't even get into their club teams starting line up last season and it seems that all 3 of them will move on to new clubs in the close season. Wouldn't have guessed that 4 years ago.....

Yes agree im dissapointed with Botha being called up.

However im happy with the rest of the squad....a young one generally aswell....what the saxons should be - a development team.

One or two are playing for a world cup spot i think.

Narraway, Attwood and Stevens are the only real contenders for a WC spot!
Almost certainly an inclusion in MJ's training squad of 50 players.

Attwood was pushing for a 6N debut before being banned for stamping.
Stevens seems to have been having a good run for Sarries since his return and his flexability could be decisive. I agree with an earlier poster that he could push Doran-Jones down the ranks by 1 place.

It's an extremely exciting squad chocked full of talent. I think perhaps most promisingly from an English perspective is the array of talent across the team, and not just focused in one or two positions. They are also mostly players on good form and playing to a high standard already in domestic rugby.

When your second string includes form players like Paice, Botha, Johnson, Crane, Goode, Sharples, Ojo and Brown - players who finished the domestic campaign so strongly - you know you're onto something.

Looking at the squad, I wonder if Goode is going to be seeing action at 10. They way he played against Leicester as a second receiving and tactical kicker, I can't help but feel he's slightly wasted at 15.

Team is up:

M Brown (Harlequins); T Ojo (London Irish), H Trinder (Gloucester), B Twelvetrees (Leicester), M Benjamin (Worcester); R Clegg (Harlequins), M Young(Newcastle); M Mullan (Worcester), J Gray (Harlequins), M Stevens (Saracens), M Botha (Saracens), D Attwood (Gloucester), J Gaskell (Sale), T Johnson (Exeter), J Crane (Leicester, capt).

Replacements: D Paice (London Irish), K Brookes (Newcastle), G Kitchener (Worcester), J Gibson (London Irish), P Hodgson (London Irish), A Goode (Saracens), C Sharples (Gloucester Rugby).

The starting front row strikes me as quite weak in the scrummaging sense. Matt Mullan is quite physically small and has spent the season out injured. Stevens was never a brilliant TH scrummager and he has spent a long time out of the game and his subsequent game time has come on the other side of the scrum.

The backline:

09. Young
10. Clegg
11. Benjamin
12. Twelvetrees
13. Trinder
14. Ojo
15. Brown

Looks exciting. It may seem over the top, but large parts of it look like a future England first team backline. A lot of people focus on Tuilagi as the future outside centre but the likes of Trinder and Lowe will have a say. Pleased for Benjamin too, he has been scoring for fun in the Championship and hopefully will follow Ashton's example into the full England squad.