West Indies vs England, Barbados - Friday 1st May to Tuesday 5th May

First topic message reminder :

With England having taken an unexpected (at start of day) lead in Grenada we move to Bridgetown for the last match of the tour. Team selection will be interesting, though I do expect England to select the same team.

Good arguments can be made for giving Lyth a chance to open, while by and large the bowlers have not looked overly threatening. This is demonstrated by the four different centurions WI have had, plus some good late partnerships.

WI may well have Taylor back. Holder has been the least impressive of the Windies seam bowlers, but his batting will be valued. Bishoo bowled well, but had to bowl too many overs in Englands first innings due to lack of options. Perhaps Taylor could return for a batsmen. If so whom? Blackwood has a century, but also some brainless cricket, so the old man Chanderpaul could be the most vulnerable. It woudl be a shame if his career was to end like this - but Phil Simmons will not allow sympathy or emotion to drive his selections.

If the weather holds could be a fascinating clash.

Olly wrote:Sorry but I'd 100% rather be in the west Indies position - pitch isn't doing nearly as much as they suggest

Curtley Ambrose doesn't think so.

And look at how the scores have gone here:- 257, 189, 98 for 7. A pattern there suggesting the pitch isn't getting any easier to bat on and remember this is a Windies batting line-up more likely to collapse than chase down a total close to 200 which is a rare achievement in the West Indies.

guildfordbat wrote:Thanks, Craig.

A 30 from Jordan would be good for England and him ....

It would have but he is trapped lbw and out for 2. England 98 for 8. Well if you go on batting I'd say Stokes merits more of a place in the side than Jordan but there again Jordan is brilliant in the slips.

You have to think Jordan needs a few wickets in this second innings to stay in the side

Olly - why don't you splash a couple of quid on the draw? According to cricinfo, the latest odds are 500/1.

Holder on a hat-trick as he bowls Broad around his legs for a golden duck. England 98 for 9.

Not sure how to read it myself...as Jordan goes the lead is just 166 and not much batting now so the chase won't be even 200.
As Boycott said last night only takes one or two bats to hit a quick forty and that doesn't look too many : and the England spinners look vulnerable ...

On the other hand Holder is making the ball talk so batting might not be easy.

Broad out first ball so the target might not even be 170

This is pathetic

CaledonianCraig wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Thanks, Craig.

A 30 from Jordan would be good for England and him ....

It would have but he is trapped lbw and out for 2. England 98 for 8. Well if you go on batting I'd say Stokes merits more of a place in the side than Jordan but there again Jordan is brilliant in the slips.

Guys - I only said what would be good! I'm not claiming the jinx for that!

Broad is an embarassment with the bat

Olly wrote:Broad is an embarassment with the bat

He's rather lost his batting skills . But that was a damn good ball to get first up , to be fair.

What an embarrassment. Gonna be this way though until big changes are made.

This isn't a pitch where Jason holder should have figures of 3-10 off 8 overs

Not sure Jason Holder should have 3/10 off eight on any pitch. They've just not batted well. But this whole game says it isn't an easy pitch to bat on.

Think this is almost an even money call from here.

alfie wrote:Not sure how to read it myself...as Jordan goes the lead is just 166 and not much batting now so the chase won't be even 200.
As Boycott said last night only takes one or two bats to hit a quick forty and that doesn't look too many : and the England spinners look vulnerable ...

On the other hand Holder is making the ball talk so batting might not be easy.

Broad out first ball so the target might not even be 170

Unfortunately, there's certainly merit in Boycott's comments. If a couple chance their arm for a quick 50 and it comes off, that's going to get the Windies a long way to their victory target. Also, Chanderpaul has generally been disappointing in this series but could still have his day in the sun blocking up one end whilst team mates hit out at the other.

Buttler doing what we'd hoped he would do in the first innings...

Very useful runs.

We need to sort out this bowling unit.

Ali is neither a spin bowler or a test level batsmen, Jordan can't bat and doesn't do enough with the ball, we should have tried alternatives in this game. Stokes is a useful batsmen and does have good spells with the ball but is for me a fourth seamer while Broad has completely forgotten how to bat. Our so called long batting line up is full of a lot of crap.

Jos Buttler > most humans

England bowled out for 123. West Indies need 192 to win.

Oh thats out.

So 192 to win. Reckon it is 50/50

192 for them to win then. Can't say I'm feeling confident. Hope I'm proved wrong though.

WIndies clear favourites from here

We're in serious danger of losing a game and drawing a series against a half decent county side here

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:Not sure how to read it myself...as Jordan goes the lead is just 166 and not much batting now so the chase won't be even 200.
As Boycott said last night only takes one or two bats to hit a quick forty and that doesn't look too many : and the England spinners look vulnerable ...

On the other hand Holder is making the ball talk so batting might not be easy.

Broad out first ball so the target might not even be 170

Unfortunately, there's certainly merit in Boycott's comments. If a couple chance their arm for a quick 50 and it comes off, that's going to get the Windies a long way to their victory target. Also, Chanderpaul has generally been disappointing in this series but could still have his day in the sun blocking up one end whilst team mates hit out at the other.

Yes Boycott does make the odd good point ; and he's right in this. But so far in this match only Blackwood has managed to make much more than thirty by going on the attack ; and I don't think the pitch is getting any easier to bat on.
Going to be tight I think. That twenty five for the last wicket might prove crucial !

I can't see why so much doom and gloom. Lets look at a few facts here:-

The scores have been on a downward spiral throughout this Test.

West Indies have collapses in this series already.

I think you'll find that teams batting last in Barbados I think have only chased down something over 200 in the 4th innings a handful of times And so to expect a team with a history of collapses can chase that down - well I'd much sooner have the runs on the board.

Well Craig , I don't think England would be overconfident chasing 192 on this pitch if the positions were reversed . So I can see why you are confident of defending.
But I think England would be a lot happier with another forty runs...

Anderson might need a bit more help in the wicket taking this time around. Hopefully Moeen will get his act together ; though I still expect the pace men to present the main danger.

It isn't super-confidence more being realistic looking at all the facts here. If this were a West Indies side crammed with great batsmen then I'd say it was game over but this isn't. And as I said Barbados has a record of being tough to chase down scores around 200.

If it is to be a loss then England need to take a look at a few things (well even if they win they'll need to do that). Stuff like who to replace Trott with, what their optimum bowling attack is going to be and made up of, the batting order needs looking at as well as Broad should be No.11 and Buttler needs moving up above Ali.

Craig - I'm very much a supporter of ''runs on the board''. However, I would want a greater lead than we have to confidently feel England are in the driving seat. Agree not all doom and gloom but ....

guildfordbat wrote:Craig - I'm very much a supporter of ''runs on the board''. However, I would want a greater lead  than we have to confidently feel England are in the driving seat. Agree not all doom and gloom but ....

Take a look at @Benedict_B's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Benedict_B/status/594894808310784001?s=09

We shall see guildfordbat.

Olly wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Craig - I'm very much a supporter of ''runs on the board''. However, I would want a greater lead  than we have to confidently feel England are in the driving seat. Agree not all doom and gloom but ....

Take a look at @Benedict_B's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Benedict_B/status/594894808310784001?s=09

Thanks, Olly. Very interesting. You're quite the super statto yourself.

Going back to a post this (UK) afternoon from Alfie, I would have a lot more confidence if the Windies were chasing around 240. Just feel we now have precious little breathing space.

I'm not sure this west Indian side is any worse than the 2009 vintage that won the series.

A guy like Jordan, miracle fielder he is. Worth a spot just because you're guaranteed 2-3 sticks a match, and one 3-4 catches a series which NO ONE else is gonna catch?

29/0 after ten ...West Indies starting to look the likely winners ?

Review called after Billy B refuses Jordan...but nothing doing . Umpires call and Hope survives - just.

English hopes not extinguished yet ; but...

Poor old Jordan has been on the wrong end of Billy and the Umpires call twice today : batting and bowling

Mind you, I've got him outperforming Stokes in this series, so maybe if England are looking for one of those bit-of-both-not-much-of-either type player, he gets the nod anyway. Haven't been too impressed with Stokes. Good cricketer, I suppose... But I feel he lives a bit on being the least damaged player in The Ashes debacle

Well that ones out ! Surely ?

Hope's turn to review...stone dead !

Like I said earlier, think Jordan needs a real good performance with the ball here - imo you can't pick your third seamer because he catches the ball

kingraf wrote:Mind you, I've got him outperforming Stokes in this series, so maybe if England are looking for one of those bit-of-both-not-much-of-either type player, he gets the nod anyway. Haven't been too impressed with Stokes. Good cricketer, I suppose... But I feel he lives a bit on being the least damaged player in The Ashes debacle

I know what you mean , raf. He gets a lot of good press after that hundred at Perth and some lively bowling. But he really hasn't delivered much yet. Even today , that 32 was handy ; but England really needed a lot more from him.
Potential is there ; but he's by no means a sure thing to hold his ot for the summer.

Jordan again with a great catch and Moeen has Brathwaite !

Game on...

It indeed was a poor 2nd innings performance from England, but I think they've got just about enough to just get through.
The West Indies collapse has started after a rather chancy opening partnership put together 35, now both of them are back in the hut. Brathwaite's wicket is particularly crucial from an England point of view.

Olly wrote:Like I said earlier, think Jordan needs  a real good performance with the ball here - imo you can't pick your third seamer because he catches the ball

He's just had a good five minutes

To be fair , I think he bowled quite well in the first innings , although he took no wickets himself. Did help create pressure.

A special catch from Jordan it has to be said, he is really good as a slip fielder........

Two quick wickets falling and this is still in the balance,

As for the Stokes or Jordan debate - a tough one. Both are seen as all-rounders but I believe there should only be one such player in the side. Stokes is a better batter, the bowling perhaps Jordan just has the edge and Jordan is a heck of a slips fielder so I would just go for Jordan.

I hope Sky have a ''Jordan catch of the series'' competition!

That wasn't his best but still very good and even more important.

Jordan's also bowling well. More reliable and effective with the ball imo than Stokes.

As Alfie says, game on .... although it's too soon for Craig to reappear and claim it was never in doubt!

kingraf wrote:A guy like Jordan, miracle fielder he is. Worth a spot just because you're guaranteed 2-3 sticks a match, and one 3-4 catches a series which NO ONE else is gonna catch?

Prophetic much Raf?

guildfordbat wrote:I hope Sky have a ''Jordan catch of the series'' competition!

That wasn't his best but still very good and even more important.

Jordan's also bowling well. More reliable and effective with the ball imo than Stokes.

As Alfie says, game on .... although it's too soon for Craig to reappear and claim it was never in doubt!

Reappear?

If England play six batsmen then Stokes will miss out ; Jordan is surely the better bowler , especially in home conditions. Plus the Velcro hands...
But I doubt England will play six batsmen. So Stokes is probably contesting a spot with Woakes...who is currently unfit.

One to watch over the coming months...

Ok I'm gonna be a bit of a spoil sport here about these slip catches Jordan takes

They have to be amazing because he stands so far out of position

That one goes straight into a normal first slip fielder...

Think West Indies will have to stay positive to have any chance. Get the most out of any scoring opportunities, you can't block your way to such a target on this track, sooner or later, a ball with your name on it would surely come....... In fact by going on the attack, the West Indies lower order had managed some runs in the first innings that cut the lead down after England had reduced them to 124-7. That was bordering on the reckless, the WI batsmen need something in between that and what Bravo and Samuels, both natural stroke players are doing at the moment.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:I hope Sky have a ''Jordan catch of the series'' competition!

That wasn't his best but still very good and even more important.

Jordan's also bowling well. More reliable and effective with the ball imo than Stokes.

As Alfie says, game on .... although it's too soon for Craig to reappear and claim it was never in doubt!

Reappear?

The third umpire gives you that on review and it's withdrawn, ok?