Live fight thread

[milkyboy]

First topic message reminder :

Apparently there's a fight on tonight and JBW needs a thread to talk to himself on.

[milkyboy]

Yeh, disappointing to see the excuses coming. Given he took the Bradley and Marquez defeats pretty philosophically I guess it sums up his level of disappointment.

Either that or the rematch justification storyline is starting early

[Scottrf]

So Pacquiao didn't want to take the fight for ages because he's scared of needles, now he lost it's because he didn't have a pain relieving shoulder injection. Brilliant.

[AdamT]

Floyd threw more punches and landed way more. Pac had his moments but no way he won that.

9-3 for me. Both past it but Floyd still the best on the planet and an atg

[Coxy001]

So Pacquiao didn't want to take the fight for ages because he's scared of needles, now he lost it's because he didn't have a pain relieving shoulder injection. Brilliant.

Must admit I totally forgot about that and that's pretty amusing.

[hampo17]

Best excuse I've seen so far "Manny was blood test 12 times, it explains why he was so drained"

[Mayweathers cellmate]

Saying it was a Mayweather masterclass was a bit laughable, he barely landed a clean shot all night. Mayweather just did a great job of nullifying Pacs infrequent bursts of punches.

[3fingers]

Isn't totally nullifying manny a masterclass?

[CaledonianCraig]

Floyd threw more punches and landed way more. Pac had his moments but no way he won that.

9-3 for me. Both past it but Floyd still the best on the planet and an atg

I agree with your first point but sorry I (personally) don't see Mayweather as an all-time great. My ideal fighter is one that comes to box toe-to-toe and entertain. Mayweather doesn't do that. He fights the fight (much like pre-fight negotiations) on his terms alone and employs tactics that keep him away from a real scrap. Great skills no doubt about it but my all-time greats are ones not afraid to go to war such as your Haglers, Hearns, Duran, Sugar 'Ray' Leonard's of this world.

[Mayweathers cellmate]

Isn't totally nullifying manny a masterclass?

Not if Mayweather does little himself. Surely to put on a mastercalss you'd actually have to land some punches. It was a bit like Hopkins' performance vs Calzaghe.

[CaledonianCraig]

Saying it was a Mayweather masterclass was a bit laughable, he barely landed a clean shot all night. Mayweather just did a great job of nullifying Pacs infrequent bursts of punches.

I suppose it depends on what masterclass it is. If we are talking about keeping your distance and avoid getting in a scrap but picking up points along the way then yes it was a masterclass in that art. I am more of an attacking boxer fan so if we are talking aggression and completely beating your opponent in a toe-to-toe scrap then it was no masterclass.

[hampo17]

Floyd threw more punches and landed way more. Pac had his moments but no way he won that.

9-3 for me. Both past it but Floyd still the best on the planet and an atg

I agree with your first point but sorry I (personally) don't see Mayweather as an all-time great. My ideal fighter is one that comes to box toe-to-toe and entertain. Mayweather doesn't do that. He fights the fight (much like pre-fight negotiations) on his terms alone and employs tactics that keep him away from a real scrap. Great skills no doubt about it but my all-time greats are ones not afraid to go to war such as your Haglers, Hearns, Duran, Sugar 'Ray' Leonard's of this world.

You could argue Floyd is that good he doesn't have to go to war. Why should he risk taking more damage than he has to just to make a few fans happy?

Floyd will certainly go down as an ATG, just beaten his biggest rival and in most eyes with some to spare.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Mayweather not an ATG because he's too good to need to go to war, being involved in a tear up doesn't prove your greatness, hell i'm sure Tommy Hearns wishes he'd avoided a couple.

[milkyboy]

The Hopkins jc fight isn't a bad analogy cellmate. (Excepting the result obviously). It's a lot easier to avoid a punch than land one if that's your focus.

I didn't think mayweather caught him cleanly much coming in. He caught him enough to win and win fairly clearly for me in the end, but I didn't see the virtuoso one way master class some did. As I said earlier, the Canelo fight I'd happily call a masterclass, as he potshotted him cleanly all night.

[Mayweathers cellmate]

Saying it was a Mayweather masterclass was a bit laughable, he barely landed a clean shot all night. Mayweather just did a great job of nullifying Pacs infrequent bursts of punches.

I suppose it depends on what masterclass it is. If we are talking about keeping your distance and avoid getting in a scrap but picking up points along the way then yes it was a masterclass in that art. I am more of an attacking boxer fan so if we are talking aggression and completely beating your opponent in a toe-to-toe scrap then it was no masterclass.

It's just down to personal definition. For me a mastercalss indicates dominance, and I don't think Mayweather was at all dominant. He just did enough in most of the rounds. Not his fault of course, if Pac pushed him then maybe we'd have seen more. As for Pac I can't understand why he didn't apply more pressure. He wasn't getting hit, was never hurt, and when he did throw flurries they were effective. I guess the shoulder injury story may hold the answer.

[CaledonianCraig]

Floyd threw more punches and landed way more. Pac had his moments but no way he won that.

9-3 for me. Both past it but Floyd still the best on the planet and an atg

I agree with your first point but sorry I (personally) don't see Mayweather as an all-time great. My ideal fighter is one that comes to box toe-to-toe and entertain. Mayweather doesn't do that. He fights the fight (much like pre-fight negotiations) on his terms alone and employs tactics that keep him away from a real scrap. Great skills no doubt about it but my all-time greats are ones not afraid to go to war such as your Haglers, Hearns, Duran, Sugar 'Ray' Leonard's of this world.

You could argue Floyd is that good he doesn't have to go to war. Why should he risk taking more damage than he has to just to make a few fans happy?

Floyd will certainly go down as an ATG, just beaten his biggest rival and in most eyes with some to spare.

Yes point taken however boxing is in the entertainment business and rate Mayweather's entertainment value out of 10 and you'd give his fights an average of maybe 6. Other fighters may not be good enough to avoid a war but their entertainment value probably range from 7 through to 9 for the all-time greats. Just how I see it. If you like watching Mayweather then kudos to you but many don't.

[Mayweathers cellmate]

The Hopkins jc fight isn't a bad analogy cellmate. (Excepting the result obviously). It's a lot easier to avoid a punch than land one if that's your focus.

I didn't think mayweather caught him cleanly much coming in. He caught him enough to win and win fairly clearly for me in the end, but I didn't see the virtuoso one way master class some did. As I said earlier, the Canelo fight I'd happily call a masterclass, as he potshotted him cleanly all night.

Yeah I'd call the Canelo performance a bit of a masterclass even though one of the judges crazily scored it to Canelo. Mayweather landed his trademark lead right hands all night, something we didn't see last night.

[Hammersmith harrier]

So Arturo Gatti is an all time great?

[hampo17]

Floyd threw more punches and landed way more. Pac had his moments but no way he won that.

9-3 for me. Both past it but Floyd still the best on the planet and an atg

I agree with your first point but sorry I (personally) don't see Mayweather as an all-time great. My ideal fighter is one that comes to box toe-to-toe and entertain. Mayweather doesn't do that. He fights the fight (much like pre-fight negotiations) on his terms alone and employs tactics that keep him away from a real scrap. Great skills no doubt about it but my all-time greats are ones not afraid to go to war such as your Haglers, Hearns, Duran, Sugar 'Ray' Leonard's of this world.

You could argue Floyd is that good he doesn't have to go to war. Why should he risk taking more damage than he has to just to make a few fans happy?

Floyd will certainly go down as an ATG, just beaten his biggest rival and in most eyes with some to spare.

Yes point taken however boxing is in the entertainment business and rate Mayweather's entertainment value out of 10 and you'd give his fights an average of maybe 6. Other fighters may not be good enough to avoid a war but their entertainment value probably range from 7 through to 9 for the all-time greats. Just how I see it. If you like watching Mayweather then kudos to you but many don't.

It's not an entertainment business at all. It's a business all about results and money, the boxers won't care if they entertain same as footballers won't as long as they win.

If you want sports entertainment I'd suggest watching WWE.

[Coxy001]

The Hopkins jc fight isn't a bad analogy cellmate. (Excepting the result obviously). It's a lot easier to avoid a punch than land one if that's your focus.

I didn't think mayweather caught him cleanly much coming in. He caught him enough to win and win fairly clearly for me in the end, but I didn't see the virtuoso one way master class some did. As I said earlier, the Canelo fight I'd happily call a masterclass, as he potshotted him cleanly all night.

Yeah I'd call the Canelo performance a bit of a masterclass even though one of the judges crazily scored it to Canelo. Mayweather landed his trademark lead right hands all night, something we didn't see last night.

To beat the fighter of the last decade with a load to spare would probably put his performance in the masterclass range. Manny barely landed a punch, had it 117-111 and that's a battering.

Wasn't a 'clean' or pretty to watch masterclass, but he totally and utterly nullified one of the best offensive fighters of our generation.

[CaledonianCraig]

Floyd threw more punches and landed way more. Pac had his moments but no way he won that.

9-3 for me. Both past it but Floyd still the best on the planet and an atg

I agree with your first point but sorry I (personally) don't see Mayweather as an all-time great. My ideal fighter is one that comes to box toe-to-toe and entertain. Mayweather doesn't do that. He fights the fight (much like pre-fight negotiations) on his terms alone and employs tactics that keep him away from a real scrap. Great skills no doubt about it but my all-time greats are ones not afraid to go to war such as your Haglers, Hearns, Duran, Sugar 'Ray' Leonard's of this world.

You could argue Floyd is that good he doesn't have to go to war. Why should he risk taking more damage than he has to just to make a few fans happy?

Floyd will certainly go down as an ATG, just beaten his biggest rival and in most eyes with some to spare.

Yes point taken however boxing is in the entertainment business and rate Mayweather's entertainment value out of 10 and you'd give his fights an average of maybe 6. Other fighters may not be good enough to avoid a war but their entertainment value probably range from 7 through to 9 for the all-time greats. Just how I see it. If you like watching Mayweather then kudos to you but many don't.

It's not an entertainment business at all. It's a business all about results and money, the boxers won't care if they entertain same as footballers won't as long as they win.

If you want sports entertainment I'd suggest watching WWE.

Okay lets put it another way. When I pay $7000 a seat (cheapest) I'd want much more than that for my money. Also when I watch a sporting event I want to be entertained and for me Mayweather doesn't do it. His brand of boxing is not my or others cup of tea but is yours. Enjoy it as I bet those that shelled out thousands of dollars for a seat or me who shelled out £20 on Sky Box Office will feel they never got value for money.

[hampo17]

But again Craig that's not his concern is it. Not sure what people expect when they watch a Mayweather fight, did you expect him to suddenly fight like Mike Tyson?

[milkyboy]

... AdamT did

[milkyboy]

Craig has a point in general, it's as much entertainment as results... Why gatti made a few quid and why ward doesn't fill arenas. Floyd is the exception though because he's kept himself at the top of the tree and the 'exciting' fighters get lined up as the next guy with a blueprint.

[CaledonianCraig]

But again Craig that's not his concern is it. Not sure what people expect when they watch a Mayweather fight, did you expect him to suddenly fight like Mike Tyson?

No of course it isn't his concern but you are missing the point. You cannot expect everyone to think Mayweather is an all-time great or great to watch if he fights in a manner that affords not much in the way of excitement. That is my point here. Ringcraft he is one of the best ever but entertainment and excitement factor is low.

[hampo17]

But again Craig that's not his concern is it. Not sure what people expect when they watch a Mayweather fight, did you expect him to suddenly fight like Mike Tyson?

No of course it isn't his concern but you are missing the point. You cannot expect everyone to think Mayweather is an all-time great or great to watch if he fights in a manner that affords not much in the way of excitement. That is my point here. Ringcraft he is one of the best ever but entertainment and excitement factor is low.

An all time great should be judged on their record, who they beat etc. What you're describing is a fan favourite, nobody here will ever say Floyd will go down as a fan favourite but he's a nail on ATG.

[Lance]

A tad closer than some have described it. I gave Manny 3 4 6 9 10, so 115-113. The 116-112 cards are well scored. 118? Surely rounds 4 6 9 are clear for Manny?

The right man won and credit to him. He was excellent from the start. Shame he got too negative towards the end really. Shows he does genuinely rate Manny highly.

AS for the excuses, I have always considered Manny a sore loser with a lack of class.

[Hammersmith harrier]

I think it works two ways Milky; when I watch Froch fight it's entertaining but I appreciate Mayweather's skill level so enjoy watching him too.

Watching him sit on the ropes, duck a combination and then swivel 180 degrees so that he holds the centre of the ring again is top notch stuff, I personally find that entertaining. With Ward you don't quite get the same level of fluid motion and his use of the head against Kessler forever put me off him, doesn't help he rarely fights nowadays.

[CaledonianCraig]

But again Craig that's not his concern is it. Not sure what people expect when they watch a Mayweather fight, did you expect him to suddenly fight like Mike Tyson?

No of course it isn't his concern but you are missing the point. You cannot expect everyone to think Mayweather is an all-time great or great to watch if he fights in a manner that affords not much in the way of excitement. That is my point here. Ringcraft he is one of the best ever but entertainment and excitement factor is low.

An all time great should be judged on their record, who they beat etc. What you're describing is a fan favourite, nobody here will ever say Floyd will go down as a fan favourite but he's a nail on ATG.

So is Joe Calzaghe an all-time great in your eyes?

[Hammersmith harrier]

Calzaghe is a British great but and ATG i'm not so sure personally, his record isn't as bad as some would have you believe but it's also not very strong. We talk about Mayweather being selective but JC was stuck in his comfort zone for at least 7 years too long.

[88Chris05]

117-112 Mayweather on my card. Cannae believe some scored it to Manny, I have to say. There was the odd close round and the quality wasn't particularly great so I could see someone maybe having it a bit closer, maybe three rounds if you wanted to be ultra-kind to Pacquiao, but I didn't think it was close. Competitive, but not close.

Certainly not the masterclass Sky tried to force-feed us, mind you. By no means one of Floyd's greatest performances and I think we'd all be entitled to be a little disappointed with Manny's effort. He's not been the same guy who did so much to make this fight a mouth-watering prospect a few years ago for a while now and the fact that he couldn't raise his game at all really from his last few fights meant we were never going to get much of a spectacle.

Floyd's not the same guy either but credit to him, he's still superb. He controlled the range after settling down a bit (too much holding early on but it disappeared as the fight progressed), landed the cleaner shots and even when Manny connected he was just doing enough to take the steam off the punches.

Is he still the best and most formidable boxer in the world, or does he just retain that rank automatically until someone beats him? Either way, you've got to give him credit for last night. Nothing like the earth-shattering win it'd have been a few years back, but still a top entry on to his ledger. Pacquiao looked average but let's at least acknowledge that Floyd, as well as Father Time, had something to do with that as well.

118-110 was maybe ever so slightly harsh on Manny but not to the extent that anyone could really take umbrage with the card, for me. I think the fight was scored well.

[Mayweathers cellmate]

To beat the fighter of the last decade with a load to spare would probably put his performance in the masterclass range. Manny barely landed a punch, had it 117-111 and that's a battering.

Wasn't a 'clean' or pretty to watch masterclass, but he totally and utterly nullified one of the best offensive fighters of our generation.

Mayweather barely landed a punch himself. I fail to see how it can be called a masterclass when Floyd didn't dominate a single round.

[hampo17]

But again Craig that's not his concern is it. Not sure what people expect when they watch a Mayweather fight, did you expect him to suddenly fight like Mike Tyson?

No of course it isn't his concern but you are missing the point. You cannot expect everyone to think Mayweather is an all-time great or great to watch if he fights in a manner that affords not much in the way of excitement. That is my point here. Ringcraft he is one of the best ever but entertainment and excitement factor is low.

An all time great should be judged on their record, who they beat etc. What you're describing is a fan favourite, nobody here will ever say Floyd will go down as a fan favourite but he's a nail on ATG.

So is Joe Calzaghe an all-time great in your eyes?

As HH has pointed out Calzaghe got stuck fighting poor fighters while Warren milked the WBO belt. I would guess you don't rate Rigo, despite him being clearly one of the best boxers in the world. Again, he's not a fan favourite but he will be an ATG. The two don't go hand in hand.

[BoxingFan88]

Floyd won based on a points scoring system, many of the rounds were close where Floyd nicked them, I find it very difficult to score a round to someone clearly when they land 2 shots and then run away for the rest of the round, occasionally pot shotting. Masterclass is a laughable word to use.

Please can someone explain the difference between that and Rigondeux or Andre Dirrell??

[Hammersmith harrier]

But again Craig that's not his concern is it. Not sure what people expect when they watch a Mayweather fight, did you expect him to suddenly fight like Mike Tyson?

No of course it isn't his concern but you are missing the point. You cannot expect everyone to think Mayweather is an all-time great or great to watch if he fights in a manner that affords not much in the way of excitement. That is my point here. Ringcraft he is one of the best ever but entertainment and excitement factor is low.

An all time great should be judged on their record, who they beat etc. What you're describing is a fan favourite, nobody here will ever say Floyd will go down as a fan favourite but he's a nail on ATG.

So is Joe Calzaghe an all-time great in your eyes?

As HH has pointed out Calzaghe got stuck fighting poor fighters while Warren milked the WBO belt.

Should also add that once the dust has settled Mayweather will be getting compared to the greatest boxers of all time, he's a prat but his talent is undeniable and as much as I like JC he is nowhere near that level.

[hampo17]

So on to the next fight, who does everyone want to see him fight? If he stays at 147lbs, I wouldn't mind seeing him fight Khan. I still feel the speed and combinations will trouble him and I'm not sure he hits hard enough to worry Khan.

[Happytravelling]

[
You could argue Floyd is that good he doesn't have to go to war. Why should he risk taking more damage than he has to just to make a few fans happy?

Floyd will certainly go down as an ATG, just beaten his biggest rival and in most eyes with some to spare.

Why should Floyd risk taking "more damage" than e should? Possibly because its a sport and all sports are about entertainment? Possibly because Floyd and his minions keep telling us he's all about the money. Being entertaining brings in more money than being dull but yet he often dominates fights and still feels "just doing enough" is satisfaactory/more lucrative than actually trying to assert and win the fight conclusively, entertainingly.

Which is why he annoys me. His "its all about the money" is just a BS subdiffuge for his excuses and his puppy dog followers like HH lap it up.

I didn't watch the fight, as I had other commitments. But, it went as expected.so glad I didn't waste money or sleep on it.

As talented as Floyg is, he's still a tool and bad for boxing. He pocketed $100m for stinking the house down. I appreciate his defensive skills but boxing isn't just a defensive sport. Its a combat sport and in such sports its typical to engage in combat. Use your skills to allude damage by all means but you should at least try to "win" the fight rather than sneak it.

[Ent]

Maybe watch the fight then comment?

[Hammersmith harrier]

Considering he's relinquishing every single belt I have a terrible feeling he's gunning for Cotto at a catchweight for the Middleweight title. I'm sure Haymon will want his guys like Thurman, Broner and Khan picking up the pieces.

[hampo17]

I love the argument that he should take more risks to entertain you, honestly it doesn't wash. This is a very dangerous sport, and if he can win without taking risks he's perfectly entitled too. He will leave this sport with his health intact and a lot of fighters really can't say that.

[Ent]

I love the argument that he should take more risks to entertain you, honestly it doesn't wash. This is a very dangerous sport, and if he can win without taking risks he's perfectly entitled too. He will leave this sport with his health intact and a lot of fighters really can't say that.

Just shows some boxing fans don't actually like boxing, they like violence.

[Happytravelling]

So on to the next fight, who does everyone want to see him fight? If he stays at 147lbs, I wouldn't mind seeing him fight Khan. I still feel the speed and combinations will trouble him and I'm not sure he hits hard enough to worry Khan.

Which is probably why he will keep avoiding Khan. He should win against Khan but Floyd is so desperate not to lose he will not take Khan, as he is slightly higher risk than others.

Khan is the case in point about his "all about the money" BS. The PPV, ticket buying public voted to say they wanted to see him fight Khan and he takes a less "popular" (lucrative) Maidana. You can only conclude he took Maidana because he thought he had a greater chance of losing to Khan as the public and money was with the Khan fight.

Hope he does take the Khan fight though. It would be interesting. He'll win but Khan could give him problems and provide a shock result.

[catchweight]

No masterclass. The few big moments in the fight were Pacquiao. Pacquiao was the guy trying to make a fight. Mayweather did enough overall to limit Pacquiaos offense and steal rounds via pot shots. Dull enough fight overall, but pretty predictable.

[AlexHuckerby]

Personally I think you can only argue 4,6,9 and maybe 10 for Manny. Every other round was simple. Don't understand giving Manny the second round. He landed 5 punches in that round...

[milkyboy]

I appreciate his skill level too hammy believe me. Why should he go toe to toe and risk defeat when he can win like this. I'm sure the 5 years too late argument will get done to death, but when the fight was made, there was a load of apathy from fans about it being a good fight still but too late... Both on the slide, winner will be who slipped most etc.

Now it's over we're hearing a legacy cementing masterclass from some.

I thought floyd would win 5 years ago and I thought he would win last night. Looked like what it was though to me, two great fighters no longer at the peak of their powers backslapping and hugging their way to millions of dollars. It's not Calzaghe jones levels, but it genuinely doesn't really add too much to floyd's legacy for me... It was never going to, but then I already held him in very high esteem. If manny fights on and destroys allcomers I'll have to adjust that with hindsight.

[Happytravelling]

I love the argument that he should take more risks to entertain you, honestly it doesn't wash. This is a very dangerous sport, and if he can win without taking risks he's perfectly entitled too. He will leave this sport with his health intact and a lot of fighters really can't say that.

Of course he is perfectly entitled to. He's perfectly entitled to quit on his stool at the first sign of pressure. But, you are conflating what he is entitled to do and what people look for to be entertained and look for in a competitive, combat sport.

He can be overly defensive and seek to win with the least amount of effort possible but he, and his fans, can't expect him to be viewed favourably by a public that wants to be entertained by a fighter who is happy to cruise through to wins.

And as I keep pointing out, its counter to his BS about being about "the money". People pay to be entertained and he certainly has the talent to be more entertaining. But, chooses not to be.

[Ent]

I love the argument that he should take more risks to entertain you, honestly it doesn't wash. This is a very dangerous sport, and if he can win without taking risks he's perfectly entitled too. He will leave this sport with his health intact and a lot of fighters really can't say that.

Of course he is perfectly entitled to. He's perfectly entitled to quit on his stool at the first sign of pressure. But, you are conflating what he is entitled to do and what people look for to be entertained and look for in a competitive, combat sport.

He can be overly defensive and seek to win with the least amount of effort possible but he, and his fans, can't expect him to be viewed favourably by a public that wants to be entertained by a fighter who is happy to cruise through to wins.

And as I keep pointing out, its counter to his BS about being about "the money". People pay to be entertained and he certainly has the talent to be more entertaining. But, chooses not to be.

He has been in the top 3 grossing fights of all time.

I do not understand what point you are trying to make. You are complaining about a boxer boxing his way to victory in a fight you haven't seen.

[Sugar Boy Sweetie]

Okay lets put it another way. When I pay $7000 a seat (cheapest) I'd want much more than that for my money. Also when I watch a sporting event I want to be entertained and for me Mayweather doesn't do it. His brand of boxing is not my or others cup of tea but is yours. Enjoy it as I bet those that shelled out thousands of dollars for a seat or me who shelled out £20 on Sky Box Office will feel they never got value for money.
---------
What did they expect? Surely 99% of people buying the fight or spending thousands on tickets must know what type of fighter Mayweather is, and he fought exactly the same way he ways does so how can there be disappointment? Manny is supposed to be the exciting one, if they're disappointed perhaps they should direct it at him for not delivering, rather than Floyd for doing what was expected of him.

[mobilemaster8]

I paid for it and I got great value for money. I was absolutely buzzing when they were squaring off getting final instructions.

What followed after was a boxing masterclass bar a few rounds.

watching on fighter box brilliantly and outclass a hall of famer is a joy to watch from a purist perspective

Boxing isn't about running face first windmilling punches getting knocked out etc

What's funny is people saying Floyd ran the whole fight and wasn't aggressive etc.....but just have a look at the pinch stats released!!!

Mayweather THREW more shots and landed over 40%!!!!! Sorry, but if he is out punching and outlanding then I'm not sure how we can say he is a runner or ducker or whatever

[Ent]

He took the middle of the ring for large parts of the fight too.

People just like complaining.

[AlexHuckerby]

Yeah I'd agree, Floyd showed coming out in the 11th he cod have really just pushed Manny back most of the night, the size difference seemed pretty big and the height a d reach put Mannyat a major disadvantage. There were times when Manny struggled to get close sometimes it loomed like the Mayweather Marquez fight in spurts. Just too small. Manny would be a great 140lber where he could perhaps get in with his size a bit more.

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