Live fight thread

[milkyboy]

First topic message reminder :

Apparently there's a fight on tonight and JBW needs a thread to talk to himself on.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Surprise surprise it's 30 years since the war and the casuals expected a repeat.

[3fingers]

Mayweather clinched a lot in the first three and he was the more dominant in those exchanges. In one such tussle Manny's back arched backwards during the grapple - a sure sign he was completely overpowered. Thankfully Mayweather stopped holding early, but this meant there was less evidence of his physical dominance.

Second point...landing at will...

Not all punches are thrown with the intention of landing land, some are aimed off target at the hands to bring the guard down or create openings, others are aimed in the general vicinity of the target to stop an attack or mess with the oponents balance, some are thrown to judge distance, while others are simply distracters or view obstructers; all of these have a negative impact on punch stats, and Mayweather uses them all.  

No problem with you disagreeing though Milky.

[CaledonianCraig]

Surprise surprise it's 30 years since the war and the casuals expected a repeat.

Expected? No. But that is my type of boxing not boxing meets strictly come dancing.

[Rowley]

Okay lets put it another way. When I pay $7000 a seat (cheapest) I'd want much more than that for my money.

Have you ever actually seen Mayweather fight before. He fought in a manner exactly as he has for the last ten years. I would suggest everyone who is a fan of the sport should have known exactly the type of performance he would turn in and if that style is not to their taste could have saved their money. Whining that a Mayweather fight does not deliver white knuckle thrills and spills is like going to the cinema to watch a Merchant Ivory period drama and whinging about the lack of car chases.

[Scottrf]

Surprise surprise it's 30 years since the war and the casuals expected a repeat.

Expected? No. But that is my type of boxing not boxing meets strictly come dancing.

Simply, you don't need to watch the best in the world if that's the style you're after. Expected to read a load of 'Mayweather is killing boxing' over social media, wasn't disappointed. Load of rubbish.

[Rodney]

I'm more disappointed in Manny, looks like its true (having surgery) he was carrying an injury into the fight thats a disgrace for a fight of that magnitude and the cash the fans shelled out to watch this. It was a dreadful fight and overall a bad impression for boxing fans, I can't see Mayweather selling a high volume of PPV again unless he fights GGG (which = no chance)

Cheers, Rodders

[Guest]

Okay lets put it another way. When I pay $7000 a seat (cheapest) I'd want much more than that for my money.

Have you ever actually seen Mayweather fight before. He fought in a manner exactly as he has for the last ten years. I would suggest everyone who is a fan of the sport should have known exactly the type of performance he would turn in and if that style is not to their taste could have saved their money. Whining that a Mayweather fight does not deliver white knuckle thrills and spills is like going to the cinema to watch a Merchant Ivory period drama and whinging about the lack of car chases.

How many of these have you been working on, ROWLEY?

[Derbymanc]

Looks like Manny could be suspended for hiding the injury,a copy of his medical questionnaire is all over twitter with no mention of it (as of yet though I havne't seen a source of where it's come from)

[Rowley]

Okay lets put it another way. When I pay $7000 a seat (cheapest) I'd want much more than that for my money.

Have you ever actually seen Mayweather fight before. He fought in a manner exactly as he has for the last ten years. I would suggest everyone who is a fan of the sport should have known exactly the type of performance he would turn in and if that style is not to their taste could have saved their money. Whining that a Mayweather fight does not deliver white knuckle thrills and spills is like going to the cinema to watch a Merchant Ivory period drama and whinging about the lack of car chases.

How many of these have you been working on, ROWLEY?

When you're as witty and erudite as me Dave they just trip off the tongue.

[CaledonianCraig]

Okay lets put it another way. When I pay $7000 a seat (cheapest) I'd want much more than that for my money.

Have you ever actually seen Mayweather fight before. He fought in a manner exactly as he has for the last ten years. I would suggest everyone who is a fan of the sport should have known exactly the type of performance he would turn in and if that style is not to their taste could have saved their money. Whining that a Mayweather fight does not deliver white knuckle thrills and spills is like going to the cinema to watch a Merchant Ivory period drama and whinging about the lack of car chases.

You are right it was a waste of money. It just goes to show what a load of big hype can do though doesn't it? Never again though - well certainly not for a Mayweather fight.

[CaledonianCraig]

Surprise surprise it's 30 years since the war and the casuals expected a repeat.

Expected? No. But that is my type of boxing not boxing meets strictly come dancing.

Simply, you don't need to watch the best in the world if that's the style you're after. Expected to read a load of 'Mayweather is killing boxing' over social media, wasn't disappointed. Load of rubbish.

Best in the world? Well that depends on what boxing style takes your fancy does it not? Best in terms of getting results definitely and probably best in ringcraft and the art of negating his opponents. Entertainment-wise for those wanting a real toe-to-toe scrap then no he is far from the best.

[Scottrf]

I thought it would be pretty clear that I didn't mean the best entertainment wise.

[Hammersmith harrier]

I'm failing to see the point you're trying to make here CC, anyone who knows the first thing about boxing knows that Mayweather is a safety first defensive master who will not be involved in a toe to toe scrap. At that point I fail to see how it was a waste of money as exactly what was expected to happen happened.

Using another recent big fight; Haye vs Klitschko, I amongst many others felt let down by Haye as he did not perform how we expected him to but on the balance of probabilities it turned out how any unbiased observer expected it to.

The common denominator here is that the big favourites in both fights performed how they always do and the underdogs didn't because they had no answer to the supreme skills they were in against. If you bought into the hype expecting something different then more fool you, I gave Wlad a hard time after the fight but that was more down to being peed of at Haye for not doing anything.

[Stella]

I'm no boxing expert, but would this fight have been better say 4-5 years ago?

[AdamT]

I'm no boxing expert, but would this fight have been better say 4-5 years ago?

Possibly, Pacquio would have thrown more Leather and made Mayweather work harder.

Close decision win for Mayweather in my opinion. Pacman is a tornado but he lacks the ring I.Q to beat Mayweather Jr.

[Rowley]

I'm no boxing expert,

Welcome aboard, you'll fit in very well.

[CaledonianCraig]

Very welcoming people here.

First of all I was one of those that said Mayweather clearly won and those saying otherwise were wrong.

I have also agreed with the premise that Mayweather will go down as an all-time great.

But because I make a point in saying I feel Mayweather is not my cup of tea as he is not an attacking boxer and his fights are low on entertainment value I get shot down in flames. Mayweather fans there are, of course, and I'd say they are boxing purists. I am not a purist and watching boxing I like to see toe-to-toe boxing or all-action bouts. True I was a fool for buying into the hype but there seems a distinct disdain here of anyone who dares to criticize Mayweather in any shape or form. Fair enough they are massive fans of his boxing style but there are many on the other side of the fence equally allowed their opinion.

[Scottrf]

My point wasn't that you can't criticize Mayweather, but if you want a brawl you don't need to spend £20. Just watch lower level boxing.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Don't buy the fight in the first place then Craig, it's a fairly simple thing to understand.

[AdamT]

I have to admit I was a bigger fan of his style a number of years ago. However he has definitely got smarter with age and is using a style that makes him near unbeatable.

Floyd could pull a Hopkins and fight for another decade. He is that good.

[Rowley]

Not sure you have been shot down in flames CC, just think people are pointing out two points, firstly his style will not have any impact on his standing in an all time sense, Johnson was frequently an absolute stinker, and is still regarded as an all time great, as are Charles, Burley and Locche, all of whom were often considered a tough watch. 

Secondly think the only other point people have an issue with is the idea watching the fight was a waste of money, if you want thrills and spills it certainly was, but as I said earlier it was an eminently predicatble disappointment in this regard.

[Valero's Conscience]

I'm no boxing expert, but would this fight have been better say 4-5 years ago?

Possibly, Pacquio would have thrown more Leather and made Mayweather work harder.

Close decision win for Mayweather in my opinion. Pacman is a tornado but he lacks the ring I.Q to beat Mayweather Jr.

Would have to agree, I've always favoured Mayweather against Manny but think Manny would as you say, made Floyd work harder a few years back but still lost on points.

Both are phenomenal fighters and Manny shouldn't get his legacy knocked for this.

Another thing is I didn't find the fight dull to watch. As it was the fight I expected I was intrigued to see what Manny could do and enjoyed Mayweather's defensive works and ring generalship. After 6 rounds Mayweather was 4-2 up to me and could have easily had a point deducted. factor in fears of dodgy ref scores I thought Mayweather had to win the bulk of remaining rounds and was always entertained watching.

[CaledonianCraig]

Not sure you have been shot down in flames CC, just think people are pointing out two points, firstly his style will not have any impact on his standing in an all time sense, Johnson was frequently an absolute stinker, and is still regarded as an all time great, as are Charles, Burley and Locche, all of whom were often considered a tough watch. 

Secondly think the only other point people have an issue with is the idea watching the fight was a waste of money, if you want thrills and spills it certainly was, but as I said earlier it was an eminently predictable disappointment in this regard.

Yes there are many boxers down on 'all-time greats' lists that many would argue with because people have preferences to boxing styles etc. As to your second point I'd say the reason I saw it as a waste of money is the whole premise of pay-per-view more than anything else. The hype to the fight was huge and drew people (me included in) and lets not forget the only place you have ever been able to see Mayweather or Pacquaio fights is on pay-per-view so how am I supposed to guess how the fights go with them? The hype throws around 'the greatest fight ever' etc and you get drawn in and your mind switches to Duran V Leonard or Hagler V Hearns-type great fights but of course I was sadly mistaken. This is why I saw it as not value for money as I have been better entertained by fights on TV for free. That is how it is - sure I was foolish for expecting something it was never going to be in hindsight but that aside then for you boxing purists I'd like to ask YOUR opinion? Would you put it in your all-time top ten bouts or where would you place it?

[Scottrf]

lets not forget the only place you have ever been able to see Mayweather or Pacquaio fights is on pay-per-view so how am I supposed to guess how the fights go with them?

I think Mayweather's entire back catalogue is on Youtube. Majority of Pacquiao fights too.

[hampo17]

Not sure you have been shot down in flames CC, just think people are pointing out two points, firstly his style will not have any impact on his standing in an all time sense, Johnson was frequently an absolute stinker, and is still regarded as an all time great, as are Charles, Burley and Locche, all of whom were often considered a tough watch. 

Secondly think the only other point people have an issue with is the idea watching the fight was a waste of money, if you want thrills and spills it certainly was, but as I said earlier it was an eminently predictable disappointment in this regard.

Yes there are many boxers down on 'all-time greats' lists that many would argue with because people have preferences to boxing styles etc. As to your second point I'd say the reason I saw it as a waste of money is the whole premise of pay-per-view more than anything else. The hype to the fight was huge and drew people (me included in) and lets not forget the only place you have ever been able to see Mayweather or Pacquaio fights is on pay-per-view so how am I supposed to guess how the fights go with them? The hype throws around 'the greatest fight ever' etc and you get drawn in and your mind switches to Duran V Leonard or Hagler V Hearns-type great fights but of course I was sadly mistaken. This is why I saw it as not value for money as I have been better entertained by fights on TV for free. That is how it is - sure I was foolish for expecting something it was never going to be in hindsight but that aside then for you boxing purists I'd like to ask YOUR opinion? Would you put it in your all-time top ten bouts or where would you place it?

Never heard of Youtube? Also Pacquiao fought on Sky a few times over the last few years, as has Floyd from memory. You could also have checked Sky and seen that they were showing reruns of previous fights, and watched them before buying. So saying the only place you could see them really doesn't work.

[Hammersmith harrier]

It was never about entertainment or being a classic for the age, it was about seeing who the better man was and finally seeing them square off against each other.

All it takes is a simple google or youtube search to find out how Mayweather fights, it's a very simple thing to do and I have no idea why we now have some complaining about a lack of entertainment because they were idiotic enough not to do any research. I for instance wouldn't pay to see a T20 game when I prefer the long form of Cricket nor would I then compain afterwards because I myself had been foolish. I have seen every fight involving the pair since Mayweather beat Hernandez and Pacquiao beat Ledwaba, in that time i've paid for two fights and they were against Hatton, I very much doubt i'm alone in that.

The hype surrounding the fight summed up what happened anyway, can Pacquiao overcome the defence of Floyd Mayweather or will his offence be shut down like many before. It didn't suggest a repeat of Hagler/Hearns or the Brawl in Montreal so again why did anyone expect that. It sounds pompous to differentiate between hardcore boxing fans and casual fans but I would imagine it's only the latter who are complaining, Twitter is full of 'experts' saying the same thing.

[CaledonianCraig]

Not sure you have been shot down in flames CC, just think people are pointing out two points, firstly his style will not have any impact on his standing in an all time sense, Johnson was frequently an absolute stinker, and is still regarded as an all time great, as are Charles, Burley and Locche, all of whom were often considered a tough watch. 

Secondly think the only other point people have an issue with is the idea watching the fight was a waste of money, if you want thrills and spills it certainly was, but as I said earlier it was an eminently predictable disappointment in this regard.

Yes there are many boxers down on 'all-time greats' lists that many would argue with because people have preferences to boxing styles etc. As to your second point I'd say the reason I saw it as a waste of money is the whole premise of pay-per-view more than anything else. The hype to the fight was huge and drew people (me included in) and lets not forget the only place you have ever been able to see Mayweather or Pacquaio fights is on pay-per-view so how am I supposed to guess how the fights go with them? The hype throws around 'the greatest fight ever' etc and you get drawn in and your mind switches to Duran V Leonard or Hagler V Hearns-type great fights but of course I was sadly mistaken. This is why I saw it as not value for money as I have been better entertained by fights on TV for free. That is how it is - sure I was foolish for expecting something it was never going to be in hindsight but that aside then for you boxing purists I'd like to ask YOUR opinion? Would you put it in your all-time top ten bouts or where would you place it?

Never heard of Youtube? Also Pacquiao fought on Sky a few times over the last few years, as has Floyd from memory. You could also have checked Sky and seen that they were showing reruns of previous fights, and watched them before buying. So saying the only place you could see them really doesn't work.

Live I meant. And I suppose more the lure was Pacquaio's style. Of course he was very disappointing in terms of he just couldn't really come to terms with or hunt down Mayweather. Anyway as I said in your opinions did this make it into the list of all-time great fights?

[hampo17]

I've already said in the write up I did for our site, and give me sport, that it didn't. But at the same time, I can't believe most boxing fans bought in to the hype and were just happy to finally find out who the better boxer was.

[88Chris05]

I'd have always leaned towards Mayweather on points even when the fight would have been at its hottest in 2010/11. Based on how each man has gone on in the subsequent years since then and also how the action unfolded the other night, I'm happy to stick with that. For me it'd just require too big a leap of faith to argue that a Mayweather win wouldn't still have been the most likely outcome even a few years ago based on all the evidence.

But I still can't row with the idea that a 2010 fight would have looked the same or been just as comfortable and clear for Floyd. He may have been winning, but Pacquiao in recent times against Bradley, Rios and even Algieri just hasn't looked anywhere near as good as he did against Hatton, Cotto, Clottey and Margarito. His hands looked a lot quicker back then, he was displaying good all-round boxing and countering skills instead of his more typical Duracell bunny style, he was throwing more combinations, was more accurate, was moving his head more etc. Even the technique and form on his punches looked a lot better and less slapdash.

Not bashing Mayweather, by the way. I thought he ranked as a greater fighter than Manny before the weekend and winning the fight basically rubber-stamps his position as the number one fighter of his time and eradicates any lingering doubts in my opinion, as the win is still legitimate and came against a good version of Manny - just not a peak one. And much as he's remained closer to his peak than Manny has, let's remember it's not a prime Mayweather in there, either. I just think boxing as well as the two combatants missed out on a fantastic opportunity.

Mayweather values the money ahead of legacy, as we know, but considering how well he won at the weekend even he in the future must think to himself every now and then that he missed a trick by not showing a bit more conviction in getting the fight made a few years ago. Can't speak for anyone else, and of course there will always be people who are never happy or totally convinced by a fighter no matter what, but if Mayweather had beaten Manny when they were both absolutely on fire I'd have been relatively close to the front of the queue (along with Truss and AdamT on here!) of people who would happily try and slap down his naysayers. As it is, though, the naysayers do have some weight to what they're saying, even if they tend to go well over the top with it sometimes.

[BoxingFan88]

I'd have always leaned towards Mayweather on points even when the fight would have been at its hottest in 2010/11. Based on how each man has gone on in the subsequent years since then and also how the action unfolded the other night, I'm happy to stick with that. For me it'd just require too big a leap of faith to argue that a Mayweather win wouldn't still have been the most likely outcome even a few years ago based on all the evidence.

But I still can't row with the idea that a 2010 fight would have looked the same or been just as comfortable and clear for Floyd. He may have been winning, but Pacquiao in recent times against Bradley, Rios and even Algieri just hasn't looked anywhere near as good as he did against Hatton, Cotto, Clottey and Margarito. His hands looked a lot quicker back then, he was displaying good all-round boxing and countering skills instead of his more typical Duracell bunny style, he was throwing more combinations, was more accurate, was moving his head more etc. Even the technique and form on his punches looked a lot better and less slapdash.

Not bashing Mayweather, by the way. I thought he ranked as a greater fighter than Manny before the weekend and winning the fight basically rubber-stamps his position as the number one fighter of his time and eradicates any lingering doubts in  my opinion, as the win is still legitimate and came against a good version of Manny - just not a peak one. And much as he's remained closer to his peak than Manny has, let's remember it's not a prime Mayweather in there, either. I just think boxing as well as the two combatants missed out on a fantastic opportunity.

Mayweather values the money ahead of legacy, as we know, but considering how well he won at the weekend even he in the future must think to himself every now and then that he missed a trick by not showing a bit more conviction in getting the fight made a few years ago. Can't speak for anyone else, and of course there will always be people who are never happy or totally convinced by a fighter no matter what, but if Mayweather had beaten Manny when they were both absolutely on fire I'd have been relatively close to the front of the queue (along with Truss and AdamT on here!) of people who would happily try and slap down his naysayers. As it is, though, the naysayers do have some weight to what they're saying, even if they tend to go well over the top with it sometimes.

I also think Mayweather wins in 2010, his hands and feet were also faster back then. If he uses the style he employed on the weekend, it would have been roughly the same result, possibly slightly closer.

However we will never know, its still a very good win, I rate Pacquiao better than the rest of the welterweight division except Floyd.

[milkyboy]

I think Craig has a point about welcoming. Does he really need everybody chipping in to tell him he's wrong.

If he's typical of the broader audience and tuned in on the hype of a fight of the century and got f all action in a 'purists masterclass', then we don't need any further reminders of why boxing is staying a minority sport.

I've been watching boxing for 40 years, I can appreciate tear ups and subtle skills, and I thought it stank. It was largely what I expected, though I thought manny would have more of a go.

The problem is not with Craig's opinion, it's that this fight is billed as the fight of the generation, and as such it's a showcase. You don't expect a casual fan to search youtube for past fights... They tune in on the night hoping to get entertained.

I'm not saying its mayweather's or manny's fault or responsibility, but the casual fans have every right to feel duped. I bought it, knowing what to expect, largely because I felt obligated as a fan, they bought it with a different outlook.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Better than Tyson-Spinks.................

Shame on Tyson for not carrying him to the 7th............

I never envisaged an exciting fight...........and If great fighters are told they have to stand still and let a mug smack him a few times because Milky wants entertainment....

Then I'll watch something else..........

Onus was on Manny to find a way and he didn't............

[Rowley]

You don't expect a casual fan to search youtube for past fights... They tune in on the night hoping to get entertained.

Accepted milky, but if I was the sort of person so easily upset over spending 20 quid I would do some research as to the likelihood of the fight living up to my expectations or stylistic preferences.

[Scottrf]

If? You're a Yorkshireman.

[milkyboy]

Better than Tyson-Spinks.................

Shame on Tyson for not carrying him to the 7th............

I never envisaged an exciting fight...........and If great fighters are told they have to stand still and let a mug smack him a few times because Milky wants entertainment....

Then I'll watch something else..........

Onus was on Manny to find a way and he didn't............

I wasn't demanding entertainment. I got largely what I expected. I pointed out that casual fans being hyped a fight of the century might be expecting entertainment.

As a man who's labelled more fights and fighters stinkers than anyone else in here truss, I'm happy you were entertained.

[Rodney]

You don't expect a casual fan to search youtube for past fights... They tune in on the night hoping to get entertained.

Accepted milky, but if I was the sort of person so easily upset over spending 20 quid I would do some research as to the likelihood of the fight living up to my expectations or stylistic preferences.

I agree but I feel we got less that what was expected even knowing Mayweather stinks the joint out, we expected Manny to be a lot more adventurous, it was very poor fight, where compubox got Mayweather landing 148 punches from I'll never know. I scored it 116-113 for Floyd but I feel his PPV status has finally had its final day in the sun now. Great fighter but certainly wont be missed.

Cheers, Rodders

[TRUSSMAN66]

Better than Tyson-Spinks.................

Shame on Tyson for not carrying him to the 7th............

I never envisaged an exciting fight...........and If great fighters are told they have to stand still and let a mug smack him a few times because Milky wants entertainment....

Then I'll watch something else..........

Onus was on Manny to find a way and he didn't............

I wasn't demanding entertainment. I got largely what I expected. I pointed out that casual fans being hyped a fight of the century might be expecting entertainment.

As a man who's labelled more fights and fighters stinkers than anyone else in here truss, I'm happy you were entertained.

Haven't seen it Mate...........

I was at a birthday bash on Saturday night............With a bunch of UKIPers so I was entertained royally..

I was either going to watch it live or not at all.........

It was by all accounts as I expected it to be though.........

[Nico the gman]

Mayweather is like all great fighters, he alway's finds the way, regardless of who he fights.

Mayweather might not be everyone's cup of tea( me included) with regard to entertainment value, you don't have to like he's style, but you have to acknowledge he's a great boxer, that's not even up for debate.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Mayweather is like all great fighters, he alway's finds the way, regardless of who he fights.

Mayweather might not be everyone's cup of tea( me included) with regard to entertainment value, you don't have to like he's style, but you have to acknowledge he's a great boxer, that's not even up for debate.

Should be glad If you don't like Floyd because nothing has changed..............

Those that don't like him will continue to puke on him................Those of us that do rate him (2nd best fighter I've ever seen after Roy) will continue to rate him highly...........

[milkyboy]

Better than Tyson-Spinks.................

Shame on Tyson for not carrying him to the 7th............

I never envisaged an exciting fight...........and If great fighters are told they have to stand still and let a mug smack him a few times because Milky wants entertainment....

Then I'll watch something else..........

Onus was on Manny to find a way and he didn't............

I wasn't demanding entertainment. I got largely what I expected. I pointed out that casual fans being hyped a fight of the century might be expecting entertainment.

As a man who's labelled more fights and fighters stinkers than anyone else in here truss, I'm happy you were entertained.

Haven't seen it Mate...........


I was at a birthday bash on Saturday night............With a bunch of UKIPers so I was entertained royally..

I was either going to watch it live or not at all.........

It was by all accounts as I expected it to be though.........

As you expected apart from manny not winning

[TRUSSMAN66]

Better than Tyson-Spinks.................

Shame on Tyson for not carrying him to the 7th............

I never envisaged an exciting fight...........and If great fighters are told they have to stand still and let a mug smack him a few times because Milky wants entertainment....

Then I'll watch something else..........

Onus was on Manny to find a way and he didn't............

I wasn't demanding entertainment. I got largely what I expected. I pointed out that casual fans being hyped a fight of the century might be expecting entertainment.

As a man who's labelled more fights and fighters stinkers than anyone else in here truss, I'm happy you were entertained.

Haven't seen it Mate...........


I was at a birthday bash on Saturday night............With a bunch of UKIPers so I was entertained royally..

I was either going to watch it live or not at all.........

It was by all accounts as I expected it to be though.........

As you expected apart from manny not winning

I didn't think it would be a good fight...........I did have Manny beating an old man..

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