Pro12 TV Schedule

by Chunky Norwich Tue 05 May 2015, 7:19 pm

First topic message reminder :

Can someone point me in the direction of the tv viewing schedule for the last day of the regular Pro12 fixtures.

Thanks

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 11:30 am

rodders wrote:
Marshall is a pro (metaphorically speaking of course, I'm not suggesting he's on the Ulster rugby payroll or anything) -

Ironically, they are on exactly the same payroll

Absolutely insane state of affairs.

by Sin é Wed 13 May 2015, 11:30 am

Where is Munster Rugby Development Officer, John Lacey this weekend?

by **rodders** Wed 13 May 2015, 11:32 am

Developing Munster rugby?

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 11:33 am

Imagine if in the Aviva Premiership - the top players from Leicester, Saints, Saracens and Bath were paid by the same organisation that paid Wayne Barnes, JP Doyle and Greg Garner.

That's what we have in the pro12.

by **rodders** Wed 13 May 2015, 11:33 am

Who pays Nigel Owens?

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 11:35 am

rodders wrote:Who pays Nigel Owens?

The WRU. The difference being that the WRU doesn't own or run any of the teams in the league in which Nigel referees.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 13 May 2015, 11:36 am

What difference does it make?

by Sin é Wed 13 May 2015, 11:38 am

Ah, I see Swansea's Ben Whitehouse is reffing the Munster v Dragons game Smile

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 11:39 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:What difference does it make?

It means the referees are officiating teams that are owned by the same organisation that pays them. Meaning the referees would obviously like that organisation to do well.

I know I would like the organisation that I work for to do well, and I strive to make sure I can do everything possible to make sure that happens.

The conflict of interest in this league is huge.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 11:40 am

Sin é wrote:Ah, I see Swansea's Ben Whitehouse is reffing the Munster v Dragons game

?????????? Swansea pay Ben Whitehouse?

by **rodders** Wed 13 May 2015, 11:42 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
rodders wrote:Who pays Nigel Owens?

The WRU. The difference being that the WRU doesn't own or run any of the teams in the league in which Nigel referees.

Pretty sure Sam W is on the same payroll as Nige so what happens if he commits an offence, like one of his trade mark tip tackles - will Nige be under pressure to turn a blind eye???

Who owns the dragons?

by Sin é Wed 13 May 2015, 11:43 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:What difference does it make?

It means the referees are officiating teams that are owned by the same organisation that pays them. Meaning the referees would obviously like that organisation to do well.

I know I would like the organisation that I work for to do well, and I strive to make sure I can do everything possible to make sure that happens.

The conflict of interest in this league is huge.

Chunks, you have to factor in Provincialism. Alain Rolland hated Munster. I'm sure other refs would have similar bias against Munster for example from their amateur playing day visit to the "Killing Fields'.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 13 May 2015, 11:44 am

Quite a large and unjustified jump again Chunky. By the same count you're saying no one can be professional at all, but seeing as you can only really be sure about yourself: you're unprofessional and unable to do your job.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 11:45 am

rodders wrote:
Pretty sure Sam W is on the same payroll as Nige so what happens if he commits an offence, like one of his trade mark tip tackles - will Nige be under pressure to turn a blind eye???

Who owns the dragons?

The WRU until very recently wanted to close the regions down. So your first point is distinctly uncomparable.

As for your second one, they have no direct say in how the Dragons are run.

by Sin é Wed 13 May 2015, 11:45 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:Ah, I see Swansea's Ben Whitehouse is reffing the Munster v Dragons game

?????????? Swansea pay Ben Whitehouse?

As a rugby ref, he would have played his rugby in Osprelia and support the Ospreys. I'm sure he would be happy if Munster lost tomorrow (or at least didn't get the bonus point win which would mean Ospreys would probably win the League and bring a home semi to his native town). Wink

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 11:45 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Quite a large and unjustified jump again Chunky. By the same count you're saying no one can be professional at all, but seeing as you can only really be sure about yourself: you're unprofessional and unable to do your job.

No idea what this means sorry.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 13 May 2015, 11:47 am

Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:Ah, I see Swansea's Ben Whitehouse is reffing the Munster v Dragons game

?????????? Swansea pay Ben Whitehouse?

As a rugby ref, he would have played his rugby in Osprelia and support the Ospreys. I'm sure he would be happy if Munster lost tomorrow (or at least didn't get the bonus point win which would mean Ospreys would probably win the League and bring a home semi to his native town).

City

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 11:47 am

Again, just facts:

1) IRFU owns provinces. pays Irish referees and provinces' top players
2) This doesn't occur throughout the league

conclusion = flawed competition.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 13 May 2015, 11:47 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Quite a large and unjustified jump again Chunky. By the same count you're saying no one can be professional at all, but seeing as you can only really be sure about yourself: you're unprofessional and unable to do your job.

No idea what this means sorry.

You're saying that if your job meant you were supposed be unbiased and follow a set of rules you would be unable to do that if your organisation benefitted from not doing so. You have just said you're not professioanl enough to do what you are employed to do and are saying everyone is like that.

by Pete330v2 Wed 13 May 2015, 11:48 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Quite a large and unjustified jump again Chunky. By the same count you're saying no one can be professional at all, but seeing as you can only really be sure about yourself: you're unprofessional and unable to do your job.

Now that's enough.
I am fairly sure that chunky covers his shifts in the icecream van with the utmost professionalism.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 13 May 2015, 11:49 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:Again, just facts:

1) IRFU owns provinces. pays Irish referees and provinces' top players
2) This doesn't occur throughout the league

conclusion = flawed competition.

Do the Welsh regions get any funding from the WRU?

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 11:49 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:Ah, I see Swansea's Ben Whitehouse is reffing the Munster v Dragons game

?????????? Swansea pay Ben Whitehouse?

As a rugby ref, he would have played his rugby in Osprelia and support the Ospreys. I'm sure he would be happy if Munster lost tomorrow (or at least didn't get the bonus point win which would mean Ospreys would probably win the League and bring a home semi to his native town).

City

1) The point is about the organisations being represented. Not individual clubs.
2) How on earth do you know he supports the Ospreys?

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 11:50 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Again, just facts:

1) IRFU owns provinces. pays Irish referees and provinces' top players
2) This doesn't occur throughout the league

conclusion = flawed competition.

Do the Welsh regions get any funding from the WRU?

Oh yes. Why?

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 11:50 am

Pete330v2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Quite a large and unjustified jump again Chunky. By the same count you're saying no one can be professional at all, but seeing as you can only really be sure about yourself: you're unprofessional and unable to do your job.

Now that's enough.
I am fairly sure that chunky covers his shifts in the icecream van with the utmost professionalism.

Hilarious

by Sin é Wed 13 May 2015, 11:51 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:Again, just facts:

1) IRFU owns provinces. pays Irish referees and provinces' top players
2) This doesn't occur throughout the league

conclusion = flawed competition.

I'd imagine the Celtic League Company is the one who pays the refs - I certainly hope it isn't the IRFU for obvious reasons (like having better things to do with their money developing Irish rugby).

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 11:52 am

Sin é wrote:

I'd imagine the Celtic League Company is the one who pays the refs - I certainly hope it isn't the IRFU for obvious reasons (like having better things to do with their money developing Irish rugby).

I'd imagine you're wrong.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 13 May 2015, 11:56 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Again, just facts:

1) IRFU owns provinces. pays Irish referees and provinces' top players
2) This doesn't occur throughout the league

conclusion = flawed competition.

Do the Welsh regions get any funding from the WRU?

Oh yes. Why?

The refs paid by the WRU would surely like the WRU funded clubs to do well by your logic? Are you really not able to do your job professionally Chunky?

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 12:02 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The refs paid by the WRU would surely like the WRU funded clubs to do well by your logic?

The WRU is just paying the clubs for a service, as agreed by the RSA agreement. (for player release and NWQ quota etc). Therefore the refs would have no more affiliation to the clubs than they do to the firm that is hired to arrange the stewarding on matchdays.

What makes referees even more affiliated to Irish provinces is that they seem to come through the provinces' geographical referees bodys. Therefore you have Clancy graduating through "Munster association of referees" and Kilgore through "Ulster referees association" etc.

A direct, loyal, affiliated link between each province.

But hey "you're ok there in Ireland so everything is peachy.

Are you really not able to do your job professionally Chunky?

No idea what this means sorry.

by Sin é Wed 13 May 2015, 12:12 pm

Doesn't Nigel Owens train with the Scarlets Chunky? I seem to remember him saying something about it in his book (or someone) about telling them when he was coming out.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 12:13 pm

Sin é wrote:Doesn't Nigel Owens train with the Scarlets Chunky? I seem to remember him saying something about it in his book (or someone) about telling them when he was coming out.

No.

They asked him to attend a training session to clarify how he interpreted a law. You're really clutching at straws now.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 12:15 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:

The WRU is just paying the clubs for a service, as agreed by the RSA agreement. (for player release and NWQ quota etc). Therefore the refs would have no more affiliation to the clubs than they do to the firm that is hired to arrange the stewarding on matchdays.

What makes referees even more affiliated to Irish provinces is that they seem to come through the provinces' geographical referees bodys. Therefore you have Clancy graduating through "Munster association of referees" and Kilgore through "Ulster referees association" etc.

A direct, loyal, affiliated link between each province.

.

Any comment on this or will it be ignored with little "right back at yous" instead?

by Guest Wed 13 May 2015, 12:23 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:

The WRU is just paying the clubs for a service, as agreed by the RSA agreement. (for player release and NWQ quota etc). Therefore the refs would have no more affiliation to the clubs than they do to the firm that is hired to arrange the stewarding on matchdays.

What makes referees even more affiliated to Irish provinces is that they seem to come through the provinces' geographical referees bodys. Therefore you have Clancy graduating through "Munster association of referees" and Kilgore through "Ulster referees association" etc.

A direct, loyal, affiliated link between each province.

.

Any comment on this or will it be ignored with little "right back at yous" instead?

No idea what that means, sorry.

by Sin é Wed 13 May 2015, 12:24 pm

Sin é wrote:Doesn't Nigel Owens train with the Scarlets Chunky? I seem to remember him saying something about it in his book (or someone) about telling them when he was coming out.

Well, he is a Scarlet's fan.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 12:25 pm

Sin é wrote:

Well, he is a Scarlet's fan.

Is he? How do you know that?

by Sin é Wed 13 May 2015, 12:27 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

I'd imagine the Celtic League Company is the one who pays the refs - I certainly hope it isn't the IRFU for obvious reasons (like having better things to do with their money developing Irish rugby).

I'd imagine you're wrong.

I know we are a very generous people, but I doubt if the IRFU pays all the Irish refs.

The Unions maybe responsible for developing referees, but they would be fools if they paid them as well (except for international games though).

by Sin é Wed 13 May 2015, 12:29 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Well, he is a Scarlet's fan.

Is he? How do you know that?

I've heard him saying it. He does a lot of interviews/chat shows over here. I'm pretty sure he said he trains with the Scarlets as well.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 12:31 pm

Sin é wrote:

I've heard him saying it. He does a lot of interviews/chat shows over here. I'm pretty sure he said he trains with the Scarlets as well.

Wow. I've never heard that said. I'm pretty sure it would be a huge story if he did.

by Pete330v2 Wed 13 May 2015, 12:46 pm

Chunky doesn't understand that an Irish referee officiating an Irish side won't be a native of that side's respective province and the ramifications of that i.e. Munster refs hate Leinster and Ulster etc.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 12:47 pm

Sin é wrote:

I know we are a very generous people, but I doubt if the IRFU pays all the Irish refs.

The IRFU pays the wages of the top 6 professional referees in Ireland. It says so in the IRFU annual report.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 13 May 2015, 12:48 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:

The refs paid by the WRU would surely like the WRU funded clubs to do well by your logic?

The WRU is just paying the clubs for a service, as agreed by the RSA agreement. (for player release and NWQ quota etc). Therefore the refs would have no more affiliation to the clubs than they do to the firm that is hired to arrange the stewarding on matchdays.

What makes referees even more affiliated to Irish provinces is that they seem to come through the provinces' geographical referees bodys. Therefore you have Clancy graduating through "Munster association of referees" and Kilgore through "Ulster referees association" etc.

A direct, loyal, affiliated link between each province.

But hey "you're ok there in Ireland so everything is peachy.

Are you really not able to do your job professionally Chunky?

Your first point is nonsense. The 2nd point; you said you would be unable to do the job you were paid to do if ignoring the job led to a benefit for the organisation you work for. You're unprofessional.

No idea what this means sorry.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 12:48 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:Chunky doesn't understand that an Irish referee officiating an Irish side won't be a native of that side's respective province and the ramifications of that i.e. Munster refs hate Leinster and Ulster etc.

So all Leinster fans want a Welsh or Scottish team to win the pro12?

Nope. They want their organisation to do well. IRFU, and the 4 provinces and everyone who is owned / employed by them. One big happy family over there.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 12:50 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Your first point is nonsense.

I appreciate it probably doesn't make any sense to you.

The 2nd point; you said you would be unable to do the job you were paid to do if ignoring the job led to a benefit for the organisation you work for. You're unprofessional.

Ok.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 13 May 2015, 12:58 pm

I understand it; it's from you so it's overly simplistic and biased Very Happy

by Sin é Wed 13 May 2015, 1:01 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

I know we are a very generous people, but I doubt if the IRFU pays all the Irish refs.

The IRFU pays the wages of the top 6 professional referees in Ireland. It says so in the IRFU annual report.

Link please. (or Annual report year and page number will suffice).

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 1:03 pm

Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

I know we are a very generous people, but I doubt if the IRFU pays all the Irish refs.

The IRFU pays the wages of the top 6 professional referees in Ireland. It says so in the IRFU annual report.

Link please. (or Annual report year and page number will suffice).

Page 52

http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFUAnnualReport201314.pdf

The pro refs are listed here.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/referees/referee_information.php

by LordDowlais Wed 13 May 2015, 1:03 pm

The question I would like to put forward to our Irish friends on here is this. Why is it that a ref from the Munster branch cannot/does not ref any Munster games, or a ref from the Leinster branch cannot/does not ref Leinster games and so on ?

by **rodders** Wed 13 May 2015, 1:08 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

I've heard him saying it. He does a lot of interviews/chat shows over here. I'm pretty sure he said he trains with the Scarlets as well.

Wow. I've never heard that said. I'm pretty sure it would be a huge story if he did.

http://ellislanesport.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/nigel-owens-talks-rugby-refereeing-and.html

When Owens referees the RaboPro12 he has to cope with stick from the fans. “People say I'm a Scarlets fan so I give them less because I don't want people to know I'm a Scarlet, but it’s a myth, total rubbish.

There you have it - Owen's admits to being bias.

by **Notch** Wed 13 May 2015, 1:10 pm

LordDowlais wrote:The question I would like to put forward to our Irish friends on here is this. Why is it that a ref from the Munster branch cannot/does not ref any Munster games, or a ref from the Leinster branch cannot/does not ref Leinster games and so on ?

To avoid allegations of bias, obviously. Why would you want an ex-player or supporter of a province to ref their games? Better to have referees whose neutrality is not in question.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 1:14 pm

rodders wrote:
When Owens referees the RaboPro12 he has to cope with stick from the fans. “People say I'm a Scarlets fan so I give them less because I don't want people to know I'm a Scarlet, but it’s a myth, total rubbish."

There you have it - Owen's admits to being bias.

Errrrr, he's admitting it's total rubbish.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 13 May 2015, 1:14 pm

Notch wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The question I would like to put forward to our Irish friends on here is this. Why is it that a ref from the Munster branch cannot/does not ref any Munster games, or a ref from the Leinster branch cannot/does not ref Leinster games and so on ?

To avoid allegations of bias, obviously. Why would you want an ex-player or supporter of a province to ref their games? Better to have referees whose neutrality is not in question.

So why are they allowed to make crucial try scoring decisions as TMOs?

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