Pro12 TV Schedule

First topic message reminder :

Can someone point me in the direction of the tv viewing schedule for the last day of the regular Pro12 fixtures.

Thanks

Notch wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The question I would like to put forward to our Irish friends on here is this. Why is it that a ref from the Munster branch cannot/does not ref any Munster games, or a ref from the Leinster branch cannot/does not ref Leinster games and so on ?

To avoid allegations of bias, obviously. Why would you want an ex-player or supporter of a province to ref their games? Better to have referees whose neutrality is not in question.

So you admit there are allegations for bias in our league ? If John Lacey is not allowed to ref Munster games because of potential bias,then what is to stop him having potential bias when he is reffing another game ? Lets not forget, these refs train every week with the provinces, I have always said that these refs are too comfy with the provinces, what is to stop the Munster players asking for a favour next week when John Lacey is reffing a game one of their rivals is playing in. Also lets not get started with having fans as TMO's at the Irish grounds. If our league is to go forwards we need to eradicate all potential bias from it.

So refs of a different nationality to any club or player in the league?

No 7&1/2 wrote:So refs of a different nationality to any club or player in the league?

That could be an idea. We could also have a situation where we have NO IRISH refs for any game Irish provinces are playing in. Unless its an Irish derby of course.

LordDowlais wrote:The question I would like to put forward to our Irish friends on here is this. Why is it that a ref from the Munster branch cannot/does not ref any Munster games, or a ref from the Leinster branch cannot/does not ref Leinster games and so on ?

Alan Rolland reffed Munster v Leinster last season. He also reffed Ulster v Munster and we lost that too.
Rolland hates Munster.

Edit: And Alan Lewis from Cork frequently reffed Munster games. Watch him reffing Munster here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vww3OTyiGPk

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The question I would like to put forward to our Irish friends on here is this. Why is it that a ref from the Munster branch cannot/does not ref any Munster games, or a ref from the Leinster branch cannot/does not ref Leinster games and so on ?

To avoid allegations of bias, obviously. Why would you want an ex-player or supporter of a province to ref their games? Better to have referees whose neutrality is not in question.

So you admit there are allegations for bias in our league ? If John Lacey is not allowed to ref Munster games because of potential bias,then what is to stop him having potential bias when he is reffing another game ? Lets not forget, these refs train every week with the provinces, I have always said that these refs are too comfy with the provinces, what is to stop the Munster players asking for a favour next week when John Lacey is reffing a game one of their rivals is playing in. Also lets not get started with having fans as TMO's at the Irish grounds. If our league is to go forwards we need to eradicate all potential bias from it.

And another huge leap

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The question I would like to put forward to our Irish friends on here is this. Why is it that a ref from the Munster branch cannot/does not ref any Munster games, or a ref from the Leinster branch cannot/does not ref Leinster games and so on ?

To avoid allegations of bias, obviously. Why would you want an ex-player or supporter of a province to ref their games? Better to have referees whose neutrality is not in question.

So you admit there are allegations for bias in our league ? If John Lacey is not allowed to ref Munster games because of potential bias,then what is to stop him having potential bias when he is reffing another game ? Lets not forget, these refs train every week with the provinces, I have always said that these refs are too comfy with the provinces, what is to stop the Munster players asking for a favour next week when John Lacey is reffing a game one of their rivals is playing in. Also lets not get started with having fans as TMO's at the Irish grounds. If our league is to go forwards we need to eradicate all potential bias from it.

And another huge leap

What about answering the rest of the post?

The salient points just get ignored by the Irish. Shameless.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:

I know we are a very generous people, but I doubt if the IRFU pays all the Irish refs.

The IRFU pays the wages of the top 6 professional referees in Ireland. It says so in the IRFU annual report.

Link please. (or Annual report year and page number will suffice).

Page 52

http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFUAnnualReport201314.pdf

The pro refs are listed here.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/referees/referee_information.php

As suspected - that a whole Refereeing Department not ref wages. Most, if not all of the refs have other jobs.

The IRFU has a dedicated department dealing with Referee and Match Official Development, headed up by former international referee and Director of Referees, Owen Doyle.

Delivering the National Programmes is Referee Coaching and Development Manager David McHugh together with Referee Development Officers Peter Fitzgibbon, David O'Brien and David Wilkinson.

Neysa Herity and Julie Moran are in charge of all administration issues relating to the work of the department.

Refereeing is key to the game and is an important element of IRFU Policy.

The continued investment in referee development has produced great success over the years and produced some of the most respected match officials in world rugby.

Ireland currently has two top tier IRB match officials.They are George Clancy and John Lacy.

We also have excellent representation at the top level in Europe with Peter Fitzgibbon, Dudley Philips, D Wilkinson and Leo Colgan refereeing regularly in the Heineken Cup, Amlin Challenge Cup and the Rabo Direct Pro 12.
Helen O'Reilly is making great strides as Irelands top female referee.

She is on the IRB top panel of female referees and has been selected to referee in the upcoming Women's World Cup in France.

The IRFU National Panel is made up of the top referees in the country.

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So refs of a different nationality to any club or player in the league?

That could be an idea. We could also have a situation where we have NO IRISH refs for any game Irish provinces are playing in. Unless its an Irish derby of course.

Or Welsh ref's for any welsh game. Great, all we need to do is have a great big pool of non Irish and non Welsh ref's to choose from...

Sin é wrote:
As suspected - that a whole Refereeing Department not ref wages. Most, if not all of the refs have other jobs.

Including the top refs wages. The Unions pay the nominated pro referees.

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So refs of a different nationality to any club or player in the league?

That could be an idea. We could also have a situation where we have NO IRISH refs for any game Irish provinces are playing in. Unless its an Irish derby of course.

Suits me - as long as Ulster can have Neil Patterson for the non-Irish games.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The question I would like to put forward to our Irish friends on here is this. Why is it that a ref from the Munster branch cannot/does not ref any Munster games, or a ref from the Leinster branch cannot/does not ref Leinster games and so on ?

To avoid allegations of bias, obviously. Why would you want an ex-player or supporter of a province to ref their games? Better to have referees whose neutrality is not in question.

So you admit there are allegations for bias in our league ? If John Lacey is not allowed to ref Munster games because of potential bias,then what is to stop him having potential bias when he is reffing another game ? Lets not forget, these refs train every week with the provinces, I have always said that these refs are too comfy with the provinces, what is to stop the Munster players asking for a favour next week when John Lacey is reffing a game one of their rivals is playing in. Also lets not get started with having fans as TMO's at the Irish grounds. If our league is to go forwards we need to eradicate all potential bias from it.

And another huge leap

What about answering the rest of the post?

The salient points just get ignored by the Irish. Shameless.

It wasn't addressed to me....Just thought I'd state the obvious to those who interpret any reply as agreeing with them, even when it clearly doesn't.

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The question I would like to put forward to our Irish friends on here is this. Why is it that a ref from the Munster branch cannot/does not ref any Munster games, or a ref from the Leinster branch cannot/does not ref Leinster games and so on ?

To avoid allegations of bias, obviously. Why would you want an ex-player or supporter of a province to ref their games? Better to have referees whose neutrality is not in question.

So you admit there are allegations for bias in our league ? If John Lacey is not allowed to ref Munster games because of potential bias,then what is to stop him having potential bias when he is reffing another game ? Lets not forget, these refs train every week with the provinces, I have always said that these refs are too comfy with the provinces, what is to stop the Munster players asking for a favour next week when John Lacey is reffing a game one of their rivals is playing in. Also lets not get started with having fans as TMO's at the Irish grounds. If our league is to go forwards we need to eradicate all potential bias from it.

No, you misunderstand. I admit there are people like you who make such allegations, without very much justification, and those people are pandered too to a certain extent. I do not think Lacey would be biased in refereeing a Munster game, but it's a fair enough policy to avoid putting him in that position.

I think having a strong central refereeing board for the league that every referee is answerable too would be a positive step but ultimately your argument could be taken to it's logical conclusion with referees from every country- it's no more or less applicable to Irish referees than it is to Welsh referees or Scottish referees. If we go to that extreme, not having any Irish referees involved with Irish fixtures or not having any Welsh referees involved with Welsh fixtures, we're going to end up with very low-quality referees. For instance, Nigel Owens would not just be ruled out of Scarlets games but any games that could affect them or even any games where a Welsh team plays a non-Welsh team. It's obvious that ruling our our top referees out of more and more games would take us backwards as a league, not forwards.

As for your fantasy that Lacey trains every week with Munster for instance... thats not something that is true on a very basic level. We've had this debate before and it's been pointed out that Irish refs do not train with the provinces every week, and Welsh referees have also trained with the regions. All of that happens on an occasional basis. Also was pointed out that the money that's put towards the refereeing panel is managed by a central body that is independent of the provinces. That, along with the entirely self-imposed restriction that referees cannot take charge of their 'home' province, means the cosiness you think exists just isn't there.

I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not going to be responding to your further points because we've had this debate before and you didn't accept what I was saying then, so why would you change your mind now? I would be wasting my time trying to convince someone who simply doesn't want to be convinced. Likewise, if I thought you even had a chance of being right, I would have said so by now so you're also wasting your time and energy.

Munchkin wrote:Or Welsh ref's for any welsh game. Great, all we need to do is have a great big pool of non Irish and non Welsh ref's to choose from...

Yes, I agree 100%. This is what the league urgently needs to sort out, but I do not think it will, because it will go against the "agenda".

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:
As suspected - that a whole Refereeing Department not ref wages. Most, if not all of the refs have other jobs.

Including the top refs wages. The Unions pay the nominated pro referees.

You seriously think the WRU pay Nigel & Co to off off to NZ & SA for a couple of months to ref Tri Nations games?

Notch wrote:As for your fantasy that Lacey trains every week with Munster for instance...

Yes he does, it was mentioned on the very debate that you are talking about, he holds weekly training with Munster,the team, the squad.

And why are people referring Nigel Owens with Scarlets, he does not train with them on a weekly basis.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Or Welsh ref's for any welsh game. Great, all we need to do is have a great big pool of non Irish and non Welsh ref's to choose from...

Yes, I agree 100%. This is what the league urgently needs to sort out, but I do not think it will, because it will go against the "agenda".

I think you're missing the point. That used to be what happened and the policy was overturned due to the extremely low quality of refereeing, which of course people complained about just as loudly as you are now. Back then, over-represented and incompetent Scottish referees were the stick that was used to beat the Pro12. If there were enough good referees from Scotland and Italy it would be possible without compromising on quality but there wasn't then and I doubt there is now.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Or Welsh ref's for any welsh game. Great, all we need to do is have a great big pool of non Irish and non Welsh ref's to choose from...

Yes, I agree 100%. This is what the league urgently needs to sort out, but I do not think it will, because it will go against the "agenda".

The agenda that only exists in the fevered imaginations of the few conspiracy theorists.

So then, all we need is more Italian and Scots ref's and we're sorted. It's something I would like to see, but not many want to be a ref. Who can blame them when ref's get so much abuse with false allegations of cheating, bias, etc, etc?

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:
As suspected - that a whole Refereeing Department not ref wages. Most, if not all of the refs have other jobs.

Including the top refs wages. The Unions pay the nominated pro referees.

You seriously think the WRU pay Nigel & Co to off off to NZ & SA for a couple of months to ref Tri Nations games?

No, they get subsidised by IRB for tests. The Unions pay referees for domestic refereeing. There was an article recently that confirmed that the RFU pay English refs for Aviva Prem matches.

What do you think the "referee costs" of 310,000 Euros goes towards? Ham rolls?

Notch wrote:I admit there are people like you who make such allegations

By people like me do you mean the Pro12 blazers? Because they are the ones who make the decisions who refs what, not me.

Munchkin wrote:So then, all we need is more Italian and Scots ref's and we're sorted. It's something I would like to see, but not many want to be a ref. Who can blame them when ref's get so much abuse with false allegations of cheating, bias, etc, etc?

Yeah, I know what you mean, and I can only agree with you again. I mean, who would want to be Wayne Barnes after the bashings he takes from certain Irish quarters.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:
As suspected - that a whole Refereeing Department not ref wages. Most, if not all of the refs have other jobs.

Including the top refs wages. The Unions pay the nominated pro referees.

You seriously think the WRU pay Nigel & Co to off off to NZ & SA for a couple of months to ref Tri Nations games?

No, they get subsidised by IRB for tests. The Unions pay referees for domestic refereeing. There was an article recently that confirmed that the RFU pay English refs for Aviva Prem matches.

What do you think the "referee costs" of 310,000 Euros goes towards? Ham rolls?

There are 7 Development/Admin staff to be getting on with (say on an average of 40K per year - that would give you 280K). Then there are training costs, travelling expenses etc. to develop elite refs. For example, they mention the development of a Female elite referee in that article. Then there would be the elite Underage sides who all have to be provided with match officials for their games.


edit - Chunky who pays the match officials (TMO, etc)? Did you come across that in the IRFU annual report.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:So then, all we need is more Italian and Scots ref's and we're sorted. It's something I would like to see, but not many want to be a ref. Who can blame them when ref's get so much abuse with false allegations of cheating, bias, etc, etc?

Yeah, I know what you mean, and I can only agree with you again. I mean, who would want to be Wayne Barnes after the bashings he takes from certain Irish quarters.

You obviously think you've scored a goal. Hit and a miss, LD.

It doesn't really matter where the allegations come from! Although you and Chunky would be right at the forefront of ref bashing, and ref bashing to the point of xenophobia when it comes to the Irish.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:So then, all we need is more Italian and Scots ref's and we're sorted. It's something I would like to see, but not many want to be a ref. Who can blame them when ref's get so much abuse with false allegations of cheating, bias, etc, etc?

Yeah, I know what you mean, and I can only agree with you again. I mean, who would want to be Wayne Barnes after the bashings he takes from certain Irish quarters.

What do you mean certain Irish quarters? Barnes is hated in every Irish quarter.

Munchkin wrote:xenophobia

That is one thing you cannot accuse people of, I have no hatred to anyone and I am not racist. It is one thing debating, but when you start using insults like that, it is best you walk away as you have lost the debate.

I will wait for Notch to come along with his red pen, I trust he will not be long.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:xenophobia

That is one thing you cannot accuse people of, I have no hatred to anyone and I am not racist. It is one thing debating, but when you start using insults like that, it is best you walk away as you have lost the debate.

I will wait for Notch to come along with his red pen, I trust he will not be long.

Took you a few minutes to Google up xenophobia  

Your best friend is Irish, right?

I wasn't accusing you of being xenophobic.... Read it again.

P.s Stop playing the victim.

Sin é wrote:

edit - Chunky who pays the match officials (TMO, etc)? Did you come across that in the IRFU annual report.

So the RFU pay their elite referees, the Welsh pay their elite referees (I know this for a fact) but the Irish don't?

Munchkin wrote:Although you and Chunky would be right at the forefront of ref bashing, and ref bashing to the point of xenophobia when it comes to the Irish.

Firstly I did not have to google anything, I know what it means. Secondly what am I supposed to think when you type that.

rodders wrote:What do you mean certain Irish quarters? Barnes is hated in every Irish quarter.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:

edit - Chunky who pays the match officials (TMO, etc)? Did you come across that in the IRFU annual report.

So the RFU pay their elite referees, the Welsh pay their elite referees (I know this for a fact) but the Irish don't?

You haven't answered my question as to who pays the rest of the match officials?

Sin é wrote:You haven't answered my question as to who pays the rest of the match officials?

I know that the unions/branches pay their own officials, but does the Pro12 pay for the privilege of using those referees ?

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:

edit - Chunky who pays the match officials (TMO, etc)? Did you come across that in the IRFU annual report.

So the RFU pay their elite referees, the Welsh pay their elite referees (I know this for a fact) but the Irish don't?

You haven't answered my question as to who pays the rest of the match officials?

I've told you, the Unions.

You decided what pub to go to yet then Chunky?

No 7&1/2 wrote:You decided what pub to go to yet then Chunky?

Your mum's house is showing it.

hilarious.

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:You haven't answered my question as to who pays the rest of the match officials?

I know that the unions/branches pay their own officials, but does the Pro12 pay for the privilege of using those referees ?

The Privilege? You've changed your opinions of them then?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:

edit - Chunky who pays the match officials (TMO, etc)? Did you come across that in the IRFU annual report.

So the RFU pay their elite referees, the Welsh pay their elite referees (I know this for a fact) but the Irish don't?

You haven't answered my question as to who pays the rest of the match officials?

I've told you, the Unions.

Well, they must all be on a pittance then if it all comes out of the 350K.

My understanding is that all official costs etc. are paid by the Celtic League Company from the money earned from sponsorship, tv etc - I don't know if you have noticed, but all the refs are sponsored by Specsaver in the Pro12.

Sin é wrote:

Well, they must all be on a pittance then if it all comes out of the 350K.

Of course they are. How much is Simon McDowell worth again?

My understanding is that all official costs etc. are paid by the Celtic League Company from the money earned from sponsorship, tv etc - I don't know if you have noticed, but all the refs are sponsored by Specsaver in the Pro12.

That's not my understanding. At all.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You decided what pub to go to yet then Chunky?

Your mum's house is showing it.

Wow, you really are very childish aren't you?

Sin é wrote:

My understanding is that all official costs etc. are paid by the Celtic League Company from the money earned from sponsorship, tv etc - I don't know if you have noticed, but all the refs are sponsored by Specsaver in the Pro12.

You'd of course need to be a customer of Specsavers first before you notice them on the shirts. But even they'd have a tough time sorting out Chunky's tunnel vision.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

My understanding is that all official costs etc. are paid by the Celtic League Company from the money earned from sponsorship, tv etc - I don't know if you have noticed, but all the refs are sponsored by Specsaver in the Pro12.

  You'd of course need to be a customer of Specsavers first before you notice them on the shirts.  But even they'd have a tough time sorting out Chunky's tunnel vision.

Hilarious

"It doesn't really matter where the allegations come from! Although you and Chunky would be right at the forefront of ref bashing, and ref bashing to the point of xenophobia when it comes to the Irish"

Ah sure it's only xenophobia if anyone gives a fiddlers frick about the opinions of certain forum members. After that it's just garbled letters and hiding behind keyboards etc.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Well, they must all be on a pittance then if it all comes out of the 350K.

Of course they are. How much is Simon McDowell worth again?

My understanding is that all official costs etc. are paid by the Celtic League Company from the money earned from sponsorship, tv etc - I don't know if you have noticed, but all the refs are sponsored by Specsaver in the Pro12.

That's not my understanding. At all.

Simon McDowell has a day job (as do most the refs). Alan Rolland was/is (I think) an insurance broker. Alan Lewis had a day job as well.

Who gets the money from Specsavers sponsorship of Pro12? The IRFU?

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

My understanding is that all official costs etc. are paid by the Celtic League Company from the money earned from sponsorship, tv etc - I don't know if you have noticed, but all the refs are sponsored by Specsaver in the Pro12.

  You'd of course need to be a customer of Specsavers first before you notice them on the shirts.  But even they'd have a tough time sorting out Chunky's tunnel vision.

Chunky should get bifocal sponsorship from Specsavers!

Pete330v2 wrote:"It doesn't really matter where the allegations come from! Although you and Chunky would be right at the forefront of ref bashing, and ref bashing to the point of xenophobia when it comes to the Irish"

Ah sure it's only xenophobia if anyone gives a fiddlers frick about the opinions of certain forum members. After that it's just garbled letters and hiding behind keyboards etc.

Shameless

Sin é wrote:

Simon McDowell has a day job (as do most the refs). Alan Rolland was/is (I think) an insurance broker. Alan Lewis had a day job as well.

Nigel Owens has a day job? What is it?

Who gets the money from Specsavers sponsorship of Pro12? The IRFU?

The Pro 12.

Have you got your pub sorted?

Nigel Owens doesn't have a day job. The WRU use up money generated by Irish, Scottish and Italian Pro12 fans to pay for his professional wages.

SecretFly wrote:Nigel Owens doesn't have a day job.   

But the Irish referees do?

The level of bluster is now cringeworthy. Excuse after excuse.

"We must not let their heads above water"

You're admitting the members of Pro12 subsidise Nige's salary?

I think Sin already gave you 'day job' activities of a number of Irish refs. Oh but of course, he's probably just lying to cover the 450,000 Lacey gets through his wheelie bin every 6 months from a grateful IRFU

SecretFly wrote:You're admitting the members of Pro12 subsidise Nige's salary?

I think Sin already gave you 'day job' activities of a number of Irish refs.  Oh but of course, he's probably just lying to cover the 450,000 Lacey gets through his wheelie bin every 6 months from a grateful IRFU  

You are not reading people's posts. Try again.