Pro 12 attendances

by Chunky Norwich Wed 27 May 2015, 10:08 am

First topic message reminder :

Good article here:

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk/editorials/some-stats-on-the-pro12-2014-15-season/

by SecretFly Thu 28 May 2015, 11:52 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:

So what does it matter if the Irish spend the same at the English salary cap? Why is it important?

Spending more than the Welsh (who are a stand alone Rugby Nation and Regions imposed their own cap) is Cheating - but diving isn't.

by LordDowlais Thu 28 May 2015, 11:54 am

SecretFly wrote:Spending more than the Welsh (who are a stand alone Rugby Nation and Regions imposed their own cap) is Cheating

Its only cheating if you have a salary cap, the Irish do not, so as I have said earlier, the Irish are doing nothing wrong, but you would never admit you are spending as much as the French on player salaries so we might as well just leave it there.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 28 May 2015, 11:56 am

rodders wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
I told you, it's in that 32m that I'm not allowed to disect. Because if I were to dsect it, then the Irish get all angry and defensive.

31,871,014 is the amount the IRFU spend running the national team and pro game. Where did you get the 32m from?

When you say "the national team", what sort of costs are you talking about here, given that the following are all accounted for in the official IRFU figures:

Elite player development
Games support costs
Domestic & community rugby
Marketing
Grounds
Administration and overheads
Premises and grounds
Car park
fixtures, fittings & equipment

The 32m is the same figure as mine btw.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 28 May 2015, 11:58 am

rodders wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Rodders (??? sorry if it wasn't you, but it was another Ulster fan) came in and started an old issue with from the Jeff Salary Cap Cheats thread

It was LordDowlis who brought it up that thread and the reference to the salaries, I'm guessing he's not a big Ulster fan.

I stand corrected (maybe not memory of an elephant). I can amend it to....

Lord complained about the mafia
Rodders questioned this, leading to them getting into an old argument from an old thread.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 28 May 2015, 11:59 am

marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

'Midi Olympique reported last month that Dan Carter’s salary when he joins Racing Metro after the World Cup will be around €500,000; but on top of that it is alleged the All Blacks fly-half will receive a similar sum from his image rights including an estimated €300,000 from the operating company of Arena 92'

'It’s a strategy long employed by Mourad Boudjellal, the canny president of Toulon, who has made no secret of the fact the club has been imaginative in ensuring its top players receive the sort of sums they deserve for their talent. In an interview last season he explained that Toulon’s total wage bill was €8.55m – well within the €10m salary cap – but that nonetheless a star such as Jonny Wilkinson earned income on top of his salary.'

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/france-countries/top-14-finances-salary-cap-strongly-policed-france-42028

YAY. The corect answer. Finally. Which is £6.07m

Which is round about what Ulster's annual wage budget is.

And where do you get Ulsters figure from?

I told you, it's in that 32m that I'm not allowed to disect. Because if I were to dsect it, then the Irish get all angry and defensive.

No the figure spent on players and management is 28m we've been through this but you seem incapable of comprehending your using the wrong figure

Not according to your own Union.

by marty2086 Thu 28 May 2015, 12:00 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
rodders wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
I told you, it's in that 32m that I'm not allowed to disect. Because if I were to dsect it, then the Irish get all angry and defensive.

31,871,014 is the amount the IRFU spend running the national team and pro game. Where did you get the 32m from?

When you say "the national team", what sort of costs are you talking about here, given that the following are all accounted for in the official IRFU figures:

Elite player development
Games support costs
Domestic & community rugby
Marketing
Grounds
Administration and overheads
Premises and grounds
Car park
fixtures, fittings & equipment

The 32m is the same figure as mine btw.

National tours, camps and squads?
National match costs?

Not that the report states that or anything

by marty2086 Thu 28 May 2015, 12:01 pm

Overall the Union’s costs have remained relatively static increasing
by just e210k year on year. Professional game costs includes all
costs associated with the senior National team including match
costs together with the Union’s contribution to the cost of running
the four Provincial teams. Overall there was an increase of c.
e670k in this area due to the costs of the additional Six Nations
match and additional funding to the Connacht Provincial team.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 28 May 2015, 12:03 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
rodders wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
I told you, it's in that 32m that I'm not allowed to disect. Because if I were to dsect it, then the Irish get all angry and defensive.

31,871,014 is the amount the IRFU spend running the national team and pro game. Where did you get the 32m from?

When you say "the national team", what sort of costs are you talking about here, given that the following are all accounted for in the official IRFU figures:

Elite player development
Games support costs
Domestic & community rugby
Marketing
Grounds
Administration and overheads
Premises and grounds
Car park
fixtures, fittings & equipment

The 32m is the same figure as mine btw.

National tours, camps and squads?
National match costs?

Administration and overheads. 5.1m

by SecretFly Thu 28 May 2015, 12:05 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Spending more than the Welsh (who are a stand alone Rugby Nation and Regions imposed their own cap) is Cheating

Its only cheating if you have a salary cap, the Irish do not, so as I have said earlier, the Irish are doing nothing wrong, but you would never admit you are spending as much as the French on player salaries so we might as well just leave it there.

We're not spending as much as the French.

Why would BOD say that POC, of all people, would be a fool not to go down to Toulon and get a nice retirement fund over perhaps two seasons, saying he owes Munster nothing and Munster fans wouldn't begrudge him the move.

They wouldn't and he doesn't, BTW

But why wouldn't IRFU just cough up the retirement fund themselves for one of the most Influencial of all Irish players ever?

Don't Munster want to have another go at the Champions Cup next season? Wouldn't Paulie be a great addition to the attempt? His form has been pretty damn good. Wouldn't IRFU cough up the Million Plus per year to make it so for such a Totemic figure to lead Munster in the charge?

If they don't want to give it to him then who would they give it to?

IRFU pay nothing close to top French sides for players.

by marty2086 Thu 28 May 2015, 12:06 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
rodders wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
I told you, it's in that 32m that I'm not allowed to disect. Because if I were to dsect it, then the Irish get all angry and defensive.

31,871,014 is the amount the IRFU spend running the national team and pro game. Where did you get the 32m from?

When you say "the national team", what sort of costs are you talking about here, given that the following are all accounted for in the official IRFU figures:

Elite player development
Games support costs
Domestic & community rugby
Marketing
Grounds
Administration and overheads
Premises and grounds
Car park
fixtures, fittings & equipment

The 32m is the same figure as mine btw.

National tours, camps and squads?
National match costs?

Administration and overheads. 5.1m

National tours, camps and squads 789,970
National match costs 3,172,874

by Chunky Norwich Thu 28 May 2015, 12:06 pm

marty2086 wrote:Overall the Union’s costs have remained relatively static increasing
by just e210k year on year. Professional game costs includes all
costs associated with the senior National team including match
costs together with the Union’s contribution to the cost of running
the four Provincial teams. Overall there was an increase of c.
e670k in this area due to the costs of the additional Six Nations
match and additional funding to the Connacht Provincial team.

Fair play, that is interesting and I concede that match costs must be included in the 32m.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 28 May 2015, 12:07 pm

Take the 28m, and give me a slice of your thinking about how it's divvied up between the 4 provinces.

by Irish Londoner Thu 28 May 2015, 12:09 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:Going back to the original question, about whether the Irish clubs salaries are roughly the equivalent of the English ones - why does that matter and what's it got to do with Wales? The French spend a lot more than any other country in Europe on salaries and no one in Wales seems hugely concerned by that.

The malaise in Welsh rugby is not the fault of the IRFU, the RFU, the IRB or anyone else except Welsh rugby itself.

The inter-club resentments, the petty squabbles, the "Ponty are/should be the fifth region" rows, the interminable battles between the "businessmen" who own the Regions and the WRU, the highly public washing of dirty laundry last year to unseat Roger Lewis by Moffett (the man who set up the Region system in the first place), "disenfranchised fans", the "we're in, we're out, we're off to play with the English" fiasco over the ECC/HEC, etc.

I'm sorry to say it but so much of this is internal Welsh stuff and whether Ireland pay players a Euro a week or a million Euros a week, or if 25 or 25,000 turn up to Thomond Park, it will make no difference to the Welsh game until the domestic issues are addressed.

Funnily enough I actually agree with Chunky in that the only long-term solution is some form of B & I league but unfortunately it's not going to happen.

Hi Chunks, can you please let me have your comments on the rest of my post - in short why does whatever the IRFU choose to pay it's players have any bearing whatsoever on Welsh Regional Rugby anymore than what France pays its players ?
Thank you.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 28 May 2015, 12:09 pm

Was this thread ever about attendances?

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 28 May 2015, 12:11 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Was this thread ever about attendances?

No, well never only about attendances.

by SecretFly Thu 28 May 2015, 12:14 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Take the 28m, and give me a slice of your thinking about how it's divvied up between the 4 provinces.

The earlier conceding weakened your hand so quickly back to how the 28M is divided out exclusively to Provinces?

by **rodders** Thu 28 May 2015, 12:15 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Take the 28m, and give me a slice of your thinking about how it's divvied up between the 4 provinces.

The IRFU have roughly 18 central contracted players + 15 NIEs so that is a minimum of 30 players to pay for start. I'm guessing Schmidt, Nucifera etc. don't work for free and pay their own way either.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 28 May 2015, 12:16 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:

Hi Chunks, can you please let me have your comments on the rest of my post - in short why does whatever the IRFU choose to pay it's players have any bearing whatsoever on Welsh Regional Rugby anymore than what France pays its players ?

In my opnion, the Irish teams are performing ona par with their salary funding at best. Maybe even below it. They should be expected to cruise the pro12 every year.

The Welsh teams, especially the Ospreys are performing on a par and probably above expectations given their relative squad budgets. I read this week that the Sarlets have the 10th biggest budget in the elague. Only the Italians have smaller budgets.

It's this context that I wish people woud have in the back of their minds before considering performance on the field.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 28 May 2015, 12:18 pm

rodders wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Take the 28m, and give me a slice of your thinking about how it's divvied up between the 4 provinces.

The IRFU have roughly 18 central contracted players + 15 NIEs so that is a minimum of 30 players to pay for start. I'm guessing Schmidt, Nucifera etc. don't work for free and pay their own way either.

Right. So that's 30 players out of circa 150 pro players on the Irish provinces books? Who pays the other players, and what do you estimate those annual wage costs to be?

by ME-109 Thu 28 May 2015, 12:20 pm

Chunks you still havent provided a comparable overall figure in terms of say taking the total costs for Toulon players (salaries only) or Saracens (or even one of the regions) and compared them overall with the costs for a province taking into account the total number of professional players and running of academies for each in terms of salaries only.

Until there is a like for like comparison you can only speculate (wildly it must be said). As indicated maybe you could explain why POC going to France = Big payoff. Why not stay here and get more as you seem to indicate?

In addition the IRFU Player and Mgmt costs have remained static over the last three years and have dropped from the previous year.

All points to a lowering of salaries overall if compared with other countries.

by LordDowlais Thu 28 May 2015, 12:21 pm

SecretFly wrote:Why would BOD say that POC, of all people, would be a fool not to go down to Toulon and get a nice retirement fund over perhaps two seasons, saying he owes Munster nothing and Munster fans wouldn't begrudge him the move.

SF, I think you know the answer to this, but I think you are trying to be a little too clever, or do not give me enough credit for knowing even the littlest of things. I would imagine the Irish players chose to stay in Ireland because of the tax breaks the sports sector in Ireland gets.

by SecretFly Thu 28 May 2015, 12:26 pm

[quote="LordDowlais"]

SecretFly wrote:

SF, I think you know the answer to this, but I think you are trying to be a little too clever, or do not give me enough credit for knowing even the littlest of things. I would imagine the Irish players chose to stay in Ireland because of the tax breaks the sports sector in Ireland gets.

Of course...well spotted. Toulon would be paying POC less than he's already getting. You got me, you clever divil.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 28 May 2015, 12:29 pm

ME-109 wrote:Chunks you still havent provided a comparable overall figure in terms of say taking the total costs for Toulon players (salaries only) or Saracens (or even one of the regions) and compared them overall with the costs for a province taking into account the total number of professional players and running of academies for each in terms of salaries only.

I've tried to do that but have been told that I am guessing so any comparison is void because nobody knows what the real figure is.

Take the 28m Euro figure, Take off 2m for coaches.

Go 7 + 7 + 7+ 5 for Connacht. Add in the extra branch salary money (2.8m Euros for Leinster apparently) and you're getting between £6m and £7m for the big 3 provinces.

As indicated maybe you could explain why POC going to France = Big payoff. Why not stay here and get more as you seem to indicate?

Presumably because Toulon are willing to pay him more than he will get in Ireland. He's coming to the end of his career. There's no conspiracy here.

by SecretFly Thu 28 May 2015, 12:31 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:

Hi Chunks, can you please let me have your comments on the rest of my post - in short why does whatever the IRFU choose to pay it's players have any bearing whatsoever on Welsh Regional Rugby anymore than what France pays its players ?

In my opnion, the Irish teams are performing ona par with their salary funding at best. Maybe even below it. They should be expected to cruise the pro12 every year.

The Welsh teams, especially the Ospreys are performing on a par and probably above expectations given their relative squad budgets. I read this week that the Sarlets have the 10th biggest budget in the elague. Only the Italians have smaller budgets.

It's this context that I wish people woud have in the back of their minds before considering performance on the field.

Are we finally back to attendances then?

Halleluiah!

Where are our crowds???? Is that the real question?

IRFU???? Where are our crowds, IRFU?

Isn't that the gist of the Cardiff Fan Forum/Site? De Irish!!!! - Fixing figures to suit their own purse but never attempting to improve crowds at Welsh venues.

We're devils sure enough.

by LordDowlais Thu 28 May 2015, 12:32 pm

SecretFly wrote:Of course...well spotted. Toulon would be paying POC less than he's already getting. You got me, you clever divil.

It is a fact now that he is going to Toulon now is it ? And this is a genuine question, because I thought he was undecided. I will miss him over here. Anyway, there is no doubt that Toulon are giving him a last big pay day, and who can blame him for going, at his age it will probably be his last chance to try a different culture whilst plying his trade, also, I bet the climate did nothing to sway him either. Wink

by marty2086 Thu 28 May 2015, 12:34 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Take the 28m, and give me a slice of your thinking about how it's divvied up between the 4 provinces.

I can't because from reading the other figures its clear the provinces must have a separate set of accounts, now that could be for everything outside of player and management costs or include additional amounts.

The figures could relate to Irish players or everybody, this is the point I've been trying to make nothing is clear from those figures. The report provides a balance for the provincial branches yet shows a loan to Munster branch so it seems like a complex setup in place.

by LordDowlais Thu 28 May 2015, 12:35 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Go 7 + 7 + 7+ 5 for Connacht. Add in the extra branch salary money (2.8m Euros for Leinster apparently) and you're getting between £6m and £7m for the big 3 provinces.

You can add a few million in private investment onto that figure as well Chunk.

by HammerofThunor Thu 28 May 2015, 12:35 pm

Realistically you can't really expect any trend in attendance to be visible in the space of a season (other than protest boycotts, like Blues at their old new stadium). Success does breed interest but not based on the one season. And it's also one factor out of many. Scarlets attendance has gone down but they've done relatively well. Would it have gone down more if they hadn't done well. Etc. etc. if you want to say success doesn't breed interest you need to look at longer term trends. Leave short term changes to the marketing folks and their spin.

Edit: sorry, wrong thread

by SecretFly Thu 28 May 2015, 12:37 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Presumably because Toulon are willing to pay him more than he will get in Ireland. He's coming to the end of his career. There's no conspiracy here.

Meaning Toulon can afford to carry him because they have a schit load of players that'll be on the same wages as him if he goes? Munster can't carry an aging player because they don't have the funds for the luxury. That's the logic on your line.

Munster won't pay because it's too much to put out on one player coming to the end of his career. Toulon will pay because they don't care. Nobody will even say hello. The owner won't recognise that he's there at all for the first few months. Buy him, to hell with the price, we'll fit him in somewhere, sometime. I hear the 'Old boys' get treated lovely down there - they only show for training on Thursdays I think....softly softly. All of them on 230,000 maybe.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 28 May 2015, 12:39 pm

So in summary: Ireland have better attendances and teams.

Wales have a self imposed salary cap.

by GoodinTightSpaces Thu 28 May 2015, 12:41 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:Realistically you can't really expect any trend in attendance to be visible in the space of a season (other than protest boycotts, like Blues at their old new stadium). Success does breed interest but not based on the one season. And it's also one factor out of many. Scarlets attendance has gone down but they've done relatively well. Would it have gone down more if they hadn't done well. Etc. etc. if you want to say success doesn't breed interest you need to look at longer term trends. Leave short term changes to the marketing folks and their spin.

Edit: sorry, wrong thread

i agree. wrong thread.

by LordDowlais Thu 28 May 2015, 12:47 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So in summary: Ireland have better attendances and teams.

Wales have a self imposed salary cap.

Yep, in a nutshell. Yahoo

by **rodders** Thu 28 May 2015, 1:33 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
rodders wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Take the 28m, and give me a slice of your thinking about how it's divvied up between the 4 provinces.

The IRFU have roughly 18 central contracted players + 15 NIEs so that is a minimum of 30 players to pay for start. I'm guessing Schmidt, Nucifera etc. don't work for free and pay their own way either.

Right. So that's 30 players out of circa 150 pro players on the Irish provinces books? Who pays the other players, and what do you estimate those annual wage costs to be?

No these players are on the IRFU books, the provinces pay the others.

Where do you get 150 pro players?

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 28 May 2015, 1:41 pm

Jaysus lads. Several pages of arguing over figures that are not provable either way. I'm not going to read through it all but honestly. Have yiz no homes to go to? Smile

by SecretFly Thu 28 May 2015, 1:43 pm

rodders wrote:

Where do you get 150 pro players?

Roughly a squad of 40 four times = 160

by SecretFly Thu 28 May 2015, 1:44 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Jaysus lads. Several pages of arguing over figures that are not provable either way. I'm not going to read through it all but honestly . Have yiz no homes to go to?

That's why none of us know what we're talking about - neither do we. Wink

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 28 May 2015, 1:47 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:

Hi Chunks, can you please let me have your comments on the rest of my post - in short why does whatever the IRFU choose to pay it's players have any bearing whatsoever on Welsh Regional Rugby anymore than what France pays its players ?

In my opnion, the Irish teams are performing ona par with their salary funding at best. Maybe even below it. They should be expected to cruise the pro12 every year.

The Welsh teams, especially the Ospreys are performing on a par and probably above expectations given their relative squad budgets. I read this week that the Sarlets have the 10th biggest budget in the elague. Only the Italians have smaller budgets.

It's this context that I wish people woud have in the back of their minds before considering performance on the field.

For a guy who loves winding people up... He does have a point here for sure. In the same way as we look at the likes of Toulon and figure that their wins are devalued by the amount of cash thrown at them, he must feel the same about the better resources we have. Ospreys had them back in the day and they have 4 titles.

It would be nice to be able to even things out. Finding a mechanism that fits all the different locations and situations of all teams in Europe makes it next to impossible though.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 28 May 2015, 1:50 pm

rodders wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
rodders wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Take the 28m, and give me a slice of your thinking about how it's divvied up between the 4 provinces.

The IRFU have roughly 18 central contracted players + 15 NIEs so that is a minimum of 30 players to pay for start. I'm guessing Schmidt, Nucifera etc. don't work for free and pay their own way either.

Right. So that's 30 players out of circa 150 pro players on the Irish provinces books? Who pays the other players, and what do you estimate those annual wage costs to be?

No these players are on the IRFU books, the provinces pay the others.

Where do you get 150 pro players?

Yes, sorry the 30 players are on the IRFU central contract books right? There are 46 players on the Munster squad page. Are they not all Pros? Multiply that by the 4 provinces. I've conservatively made it 150.

Who pays the rest? and what do you estimate the annual costs to be?

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 28 May 2015, 1:51 pm

SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:

Where do you get 150 pro players?

Roughly a squad of 40 four times = 160

Bang on Cedric. Munster have more Leinster next. Connacht a good bit less. He is not even including the Academys. (Although those players get 2 mars bars, a can of coke and a slap in the head, and they're bloody lucky to be there)

by Chunky Norwich Thu 28 May 2015, 1:51 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:

Hi Chunks, can you please let me have your comments on the rest of my post - in short why does whatever the IRFU choose to pay it's players have any bearing whatsoever on Welsh Regional Rugby anymore than what France pays its players ?

In my opnion, the Irish teams are performing ona par with their salary funding at best. Maybe even below it. They should be expected to cruise the pro12 every year.

The Welsh teams, especially the Ospreys are performing on a par and probably above expectations given their relative squad budgets. I read this week that the Sarlets have the 10th biggest budget in the elague. Only the Italians have smaller budgets.

It's this context that I wish people woud have in the back of their minds before considering performance on the field.

For a guy who loves winding people up... He does have a point here for sure. In the same way as we look at the likes of Toulon and figure that their wins are devalued by the amount of cash thrown at them, he must feel the same about the better resources we have. Ospreys had them back in the day and they have 4 titles.

It would be nice to be able to even things out. Finding a mechanism that fits all the different locations and situations of all teams in Europe makes it next to impossible though.

I do not set out to wind people up. If I do, maybe it's because people don't like hearing what I have to say.

by **rodders** Thu 28 May 2015, 1:54 pm

SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:

Where do you get 150 pro players?

Roughly a squad of 40 four times = 160

Pretty sure none of them have 40 full time pros. I'd say 120-130 is more realistic. Take away the 30 paid by the IRFU that leaves about 100/4 = 25 players paid solely by each province.

Given that the big earners mostly are in the 30 paid for out of the IRFU pot then I'd average the others at 100k * 25 = 2.5m per province on wages.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 28 May 2015, 1:56 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Yes, sorry the 30 players are on the IRFU central contract books right? There are 46 players on the Munster squad page. Are they not all Pros? Multiply that by the 4 provinces. I've conservatively made it 150.

Who pays the rest? and what do you estimate the annual costs to be?

15 Central contracts (possibly 16 with Henshaw but I've been told he ain't got one) 13 NIQ players currently. The provinces pay them, but no one really knows how it all breaks down as money goes back and forward between the Provinces and the Union in many ways,

I'll do a back of an envelope calculation over the next few days for you when I get a minute. But like all of these things it will be a guess.

by ME-109 Thu 28 May 2015, 1:57 pm

Where's Sin É when you need him

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 28 May 2015, 1:58 pm

rodders wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:

Where do you get 150 pro players?

Roughly a squad of 40 four times = 160

Pretty sure none of them have 40 full time pros.

All of them are full time Pros. The AIL lads like Hirst, Burke-Flynn, Mick McGrath and Darragh Fanning (In reverse order of importance) for Leinster are full time pros but would be on fairly basic money.

by SecretFly Thu 28 May 2015, 1:59 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

It would be nice to be able to even things out. Finding a mechanism that fits all the different locations and situations of all teams in Europe makes it next to impossible though.

Truly it would. A Pan-League agreed Cap. I'd break open someone else's Champaign to celebrate it, IF it happened. But the French want to keep to their sensible lower budgets and don't want to compete in a rat race with the Irish on a bigger agreed Cap. So..............

by SecretFly Thu 28 May 2015, 1:59 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
rodders wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:

Where do you get 150 pro players?

Roughly a squad of 40 four times = 160

Pretty sure none of them have 40 full time pros.
All of them are full time Pros. The AIL lads like Hirst, Burke-Flynn, Mick McGrath and Darragh Fanning (In reverse order of importance) for Leinster are full time pros but would be on fairly basic money.

+1

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 28 May 2015, 2:01 pm

rodders wrote:

Given that the big earners mostly are in the 30 paid for out of the IRFU pot then I'd average the others at 100k * 25 = 2.5m per province on wages.

That would be on the conservative side and I fully expect someone to ridicule you for it.... Smile

Even though it is not on the ridiculous side of conservative.

by **rodders** Thu 28 May 2015, 2:02 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
rodders wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:

Where do you get 150 pro players?

Roughly a squad of 40 four times = 160

Pretty sure none of them have 40 full time pros.
All of them are full time Pros. The AIL lads like Hirst, Burke-Flynn, Mick McGrath and Darragh Fanning (In reverse order of importance) for Leinster are full time pros but would be on fairly basic money.
+1

Some of them would be on development contracts though? Pretty sure Ulster's full time contract number is well under 40.

by SecretFly Thu 28 May 2015, 2:03 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:

I do not set out to wind people up. If I do, maybe it's because people don't like hearing what I have to say.

The Irish are a disgraceful Rugby Nation?

Yeah...that kinda probably raised a few hairs on the back of people's necks..

Do forgive us though, we're uncouth in the ways of Professional Mud Slinging. We tend to over-react.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 28 May 2015, 2:03 pm

rodders wrote:

Pretty sure none of them have 40 full time pros. I'd say 120-130 is more realistic. Take away the 30 paid by the IRFU that leaves about 100/4 = 25 players paid solely by each province.

Given that the big earners mostly are in the 30 paid for out of the IRFU pot then I'd average the others at 100k * 25 = 2.5m per province on wages.

Now, we are getting somewhere.
What is the average wage of the 30 top earner IRFU funded player?

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