Pro 12 attendances

First topic message reminder :

Good article here:

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk/editorials/some-stats-on-the-pro12-2014-15-season/

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

I do not set out to wind people up. If I do, maybe it's because people don't like hearing what I have to say.

The Irish are a disgraceful Rugby Nation?

Yeah...that kinda probably raised a few hairs on the back of people's necks..

Do forgive us though, we're uncouth in the ways of Professional Mud Slinging.  We tend to over-react.

Your mindless attempts to be funny are far worse than my posts.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

rodders wrote:

Given that the big earners mostly are in the 30 paid for out of the IRFU pot then I'd average the others at 100k * 25 = 2.5m per province on wages.

That would be on the conservative side and I fully expect someone to ridicule you for it.... Even though it is not on the ridiculous side of conservative.

I realize that but my math's isn't great so thought I'd round things to the nearest 100. I guess I should throw another million or so PP in to cover myself, but that would undermine my argument.....

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:

Where do you get 150 pro players?

Roughly a squad of 40 four times = 160

Pretty sure none of them have 40 full time pros.

All of them are full time Pros. The AIL lads like Hirst, Burke-Flynn, Mick McGrath and Darragh Fanning (In reverse order of importance) for Leinster are full time pros but would be on fairly basic money.

+1

Some of them would be on development contracts though? Pretty sure Ulster's full time contract number is well under 40.

Oh I'm not questioning any of that Rodders.... dirt money and all that for a lot of them...but he's just in the right ballpark figure with numbers. I give him his rough facts when he actually does get around to a few.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

I do not set out to wind people up. If I do, maybe it's because people don't like hearing what I have to say.

Yes. It's everyone else's fault that you wind them up. A common theme from you. It's always someone else's fault.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

I do not set out to wind people up. If I do, maybe it's because people don't like hearing what I have to say.

The Irish are a disgraceful Rugby Nation?

Yeah...that kinda probably raised a few hairs on the back of people's necks..

Do forgive us though, we're uncouth in the ways of Professional Mud Slinging.  We tend to over-react.

Your mindless attempts to be funny are far worse than my posts.

Keep going. Hang yourself endlessly, Chunky. It's like Groundhog day.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

rodders wrote:

Pretty sure none of them have 40 full time pros. I'd say 120-130 is more realistic. Take away the 30 paid by the IRFU that leaves about 100/4 = 25 players paid solely by each province.

Given that the big earners mostly are in the 30 paid for out of the IRFU pot then I'd average the others at 100k * 25 = 2.5m per province on wages.

Now, we are getting somewhere.
What is the average wage of the 30 top earner IRFU funded player?

I bet there are some big earners down there in D4 - I'll say 250 euro average. Jen is a bit less conservative though.

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

I do not set out to wind people up. If I do, maybe it's because people don't like hearing what I have to say.

The Irish are a disgraceful Rugby Nation?

Yeah...that kinda probably raised a few hairs on the back of people's necks..

Do forgive us though, we're uncouth in the ways of Professional Mud Slinging.  We tend to over-react.

Nor do you ever let anything go either.

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

I do not set out to wind people up. If I do, maybe it's because people don't like hearing what I have to say.

The Irish are a disgraceful Rugby Nation?

Yeah...that kinda probably raised a few hairs on the back of people's necks..

Well actually I agreed with that one...

It was disgusting not disgraceful...

I think the problem here lads is that even from the OP everyone set out their stall and position very early on in this thread and then ran around the internet trying to find facts to suit those positions. So having just read through it comes across as totally disjointed and like a catfight.

Do yourselves all a favour, shut it down and start again.

The Irish are a disgusting rugby nation??

I would think in the case of chunky that people in glass houses really should hold onto those stones. Anyway, it's simply another wind up thread by the usual OP who's on not only an anti-Irish campaign but also a campaign to ruin this forum for other users.

Come on Mods, shut the poster down, not the threads.

Marshes wrote:I think the problem here lads is that even from the OP everyone set out their stall and position very early on in this thread and then ran around the internet trying to find facts to suit those positions. So having just read through it comes across as totally disjointed and like a catfight.

Do yourselves all a favour, shut it down and start again.

From the OP everyone set out to get their kicks in at the posters they always try to get their kicks into, first post this thread was going down the route of it being a cat fight.  But it was pointed out to the powers that be and as usual it was shrugged away as it was deemed acceptable.

Oh and it seems that this thread is also the best place for old arguments to get re-aired over and over too.

Chunky is to the Irish what Grey Ghost and all his forms is to the English. You read a one off and it's fine. After 5 you can see where they're going.

Marshes wrote:I think the problem here lads is that even from the OP everyone set out their stall and position very early on in this thread and then ran around the internet trying to find facts to suit those positions. So having just read through it comes across as totally disjointed and like a catfight.

Do yourselves all a favour, shut it down and start again.

Blatantly off topic post there Marshes. Get lost and stop trying to disrupt our train of thought.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Oh and it seems that this thread is also the best place for old arguments to get re-aired over and over too.

...As the Cardiff Boyos Fan Club said to Feehan... unsurprisingly so.

SecretFly wrote:

Marshes wrote:I think the problem here lads is that even from the OP everyone set out their stall and position very early on in this thread and then ran around the internet trying to find facts to suit those positions. So having just read through it comes across as totally disjointed and like a catfight.

Do yourselves all a favour, shut it down and start again.

Blatantly off topic post there Marshes.  Get lost and stop trying to disrupt our train of thought.

With gusto!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32925140

Pro12 games could be taken outside of Europe. That will help grow attendances.

Don't panic!   Don't panic, Pike.

It's brainstorming. It's chat.

It's an idea for a fairytale future - possibly of New York - or hopefully Monterey Calif. .  Like LW and LS was an alleged idea.  Like kicking out the Italians was an idea.

That mischief maker/talker Feehan went on to say: "Rather than looking at the new, the exceptional and the different, I think it's very important that we concentrate very strongly on what we have got,"

My personal favourite line from it was

"We've got to engage with the communities we're in and we will do that."

It would seem that he may have a fair bit of work on his hands there.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32925140

Pro12 games could be taken outside of Europe.  That will help grow attendances.

London Irish are apparently going to play a game in New York next season - probably won't help attendances at the Mad Stad but might help grow rugby in the US.

Personally I don't think overseas ventures are a good idea for any team in any league, but I can see the logic in trying to expand the game, you know like the third tier of the ECC was going to do

ScarletSpiderman wrote:My personal favourite line from it was

"We've got to engage with the communities we're in and we will do that."

It would seem that he may have a fair bit of work on his hands there.

Per the Kerdiff stats, attendances have grown in three of the four countries involved in the PRO12, even the most anti-PRO12/Regions poster would admit that, for example, the Welsh Double Header this year was a great success.

As I've said previously on this thread, the problems with Wales and the PRO12 are mainly at thier root, Welsh problems, based on the state Welsh professional club rugby has got itself into over the last few years, hopefully the departure of Lewis, the new agreements with the Regions, the increase in the salary cap and the excellent performance of Ospreys this season will mark the start of a period of stability and Welsh rugby can start to progress again.

Believe it or not, there's nothing more most Irish posters on here (and off this board) would like to see than the Welsh competing again across all four regions, and the PRO12 becoming an even more exciting competition than it already is.

Irish Londoner wrote:Per the Kerdiff stats, attendances have grown in three of the four countries involved in the PRO12, even the most anti-PRO12/Regions poster would admit that, for example, the Welsh Double Header this year was a great success.

I have heard mixed reviews from people who attended the 'Judgement Day' double header game this year. Some people said how it was a great party atmosphere (these are generally people who attend mainly international games), but others have said that they were constantly standing up and down to let people go get beer, and dodging paper aeroplanes that were being thrown around, even thrown on the pitch (these were generally people who attend regional/club/village games regularly). So it will be interesting to see how this translates to attendances next year. Fingers crossed the attendances will be up with more of the non-regular regional watchers turning up (but sadly probably less regional regulars).

Irish Londoner wrote:
Believe it or not, there's nothing more most Irish posters on here (and off this board) would like to see than the Welsh competing again across all four regions

I find that extremely hard to believe, on seeing the responses that our (or my) conerns are met with, i.e. - local TMOs, changing the final venue mid season, kick off times etc

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:
Believe it or not, there's nothing more most Irish posters on here (and off this board) would like to see than the Welsh competing again across all four regions

I find that extremely hard to believe, on seeing the responses that our (or my) conerns are met with, i.e. - local TMOs, changing the final venue mid season, kick off times etc

You'd have a very weird concept of Rugby Development if you didn't.  
It would suit Irish Provinces that perhaps two Welsh Regions went out of business, and that the other two suffered over the next four or five years with low attendances, and low morale, and less of the players they want, and bad coaching, and poor results?

And it would suit Irish Provinces that Scottish teams would fall back down in ability too?  And no need to even mention the Italians - as their failure doesn't even concern you at all - even though they too are 'Partners' in Pro12 and the Irish are being constantly accused of not caring about the Regions.....

Anyway.... its bunk.  

Irish Provinces Selfishly (yes, for their own purely selfish reasons, you'll be glad to hear) Need a Strong League and Strong Welsh sides to keep their own standards up (Leinster being a side that now know they have to pull up their socks, and have just lost a coach because the Pro12 was a standard they couldn't match this season).

Thanks for the rude awakening Pro12 partners.  Quality of rugby Must improve now in Leinster to compete.  If Quality improves to match Glasgow, Ospreys and Munster then that will be overall very good.  Leinster fans will welcome it - as it means it will also hopefully improve performances against English and French sides (another purely selfish side benefit)
....and it will also hopefully give more bite at International level too.

So if you think the Provinces want death and destruction to Welsh Regions and to win everything in a poor quality league year in and year out, then you have a poor understanding of how and why standards in rugby keep going up and a poor concept of outright Irish Selfishness.  

But of course twist the question back at you and I think we'd all wonder what your honest answer would be, Chunky?  

"There is nothing more that Welsh posters want than to see 4 Strong Irish Provinces competing in Pro12".  

You agree?

You would find it hard to believe because you don't want to believe it, Chunky. How could you continue to flame the Irish if you acknowledged that we do in fact want a stronger Welsh regions?

Munchkin wrote:You would find it hard to believe because you don't want to believe it, Chunky. How could you continue to flame the Irish if you acknowledged that we do in fact want a stronger Welsh regions?

You clearly don't, because you refuse to acknowledge any of the league's failings which (some) Welsh fans believe contribute to the detriment of the Welsh regional improvement.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:You would find it hard to believe because you don't want to believe it, Chunky. How could you continue to flame the Irish if you acknowledged that we do in fact want a stronger Welsh regions?

You clearly don't, because you refuse to acknowledge any of the league's failings which (some) Welsh fans believe contribute to the detriment of the Welsh regional improvement.

Again.......... for the hard of hearing... It was Welsh people/citizens/rugby people in suits or tracksuits that agreed the League 'failings' when negotiating their part of an Equal Binding Voted-On series of Agreements.

Talk to your Regions and your WRU.  Don't WRU now have a man that you all adore at the top of it?  Talk to him.  Write to him.  And get the Regional Fan Sites to talk with and write to him too.  Get working on the idea that Welsh People change what they don't like about Pro12.

And keep up the good work of Undermining what you'll never want in any case.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:You would find it hard to believe because you don't want to believe it, Chunky. How could you continue to flame the Irish if you acknowledged that we do in fact want a stronger Welsh regions?

You clearly don't, because you refuse to acknowledge any of the league's failings which (some) Welsh fans believe contribute to the detriment of the Welsh regional improvement.

It might help if you could think beyond the surface, Chunky. It is possible to refuse to acknowledge failings while at the same time want improvement.
It isn't that we don't acknowledge the Pro12 can be stronger, it can, it's just that we don't acknowledge the ravings of someone who would like nothing more than the Pro12 to fail.

Munchkin wrote:

It might help if you could think beyond the surface, Chunky. It is possible to refuse to acknowledge failings while at the same time want improvement.
It isn't that we don't acknowledge the Pro12 can be stronger, it can, it's just that we don't acknowledge the ravings of someone who would like nothing more than the Pro12 to fail.

There seems to be no will amongst the Irish to change the failings I mentioned above. No will to get a fairer tv deal and thus fairer fixture times. No will to change local TMOs. No will to change the Christmas IRFU camp for the Irish players. No will to change the ridiculous eligibilty of the final venue. No nothing. Because at the moment, all these things suit the Irish sides. I can't blame you for wanting to keep the status quo. It strengthens your teams and weakens sides like the regions.

But the gall to not admit it is something else.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

It might help if you could think beyond the surface, Chunky. It is possible to refuse to acknowledge failings while at the same time want improvement.
It isn't that we don't acknowledge the Pro12 can be stronger, it can, it's just that we don't acknowledge the ravings of someone who would like nothing more than the Pro12 to fail.

There seems to be no will amongst the Irish to change the failings I mentioned above. No will to get a fairer tv deal and thus fairer fixture times. No will to change local TMOs. No will to change the Christmas IRFU camp for the Irish players. No will to change the ridiculous eligibilty of the final venue. No nothing. Because at the moment, all these things suit the Irish sides. I can't blame you for wanting to keep the status quo. It strengthens your teams and weakens sides like the regions.

But the gall to not admit it is something else.

It shows up Welsh negotiators as whimps?  
IRFU PRL?  
Calling the dictator shots as the Welsh cower in the toilets?

You build up such gushing fantasies as you cartwheel yourself to exhaustion looking for ways to Weaken the Image of Pro12.

You're due a tough pre-season to get you back to full fitness for another bout of this All Out War in 2015/2016.

How can we admit to something we don't actually believe, Chunky? Most of this exists only inside your walnut.
We want stronger broadcasting deals. We want the Regions to sort out their fixture list so that they can equally share the burden of Sunday fixtures. We want the welsh to negotiate a better broadcasting deal.
We acknowledge that officiating of games could be improved across all leagues, including our own. We want to see better use of the TMO (I personally would like to see them scrapped). We want to see 'neutral' refs at every game, and reffing at a high standard.

As for the Christmas camp? What has that got to do with you, or any other Pro12 nation? Keep your beak out.

Eligibility of the final venue? We have been over this before. Let's see what happens after this years final.

"...these things suit the Irish sides..." This is Chunky speak. Irrational, conspirational, bitter, victim playing hogwash.

It is the likes of you that do damage to the Regions, Chunky. You work against Scarlets success.

SS - in fairness the same complaints have been levelled at the London Double Header as well, a lot of people see it as a "day out", preferably a very boozy one, rather than solely as a game of rugby, same as the London Sevens, the Varsity Match and the Army/Navy game and even to an extent England internationals - you must have similar crowds at the Welsh Varisity match as well?
On the other hand, if the DH games get more people to live games and maybe spark some interest in the game, whether that's in terms of people starting to go to "normal" league games or even thinking, "I used to enjoy rugby/would like to play rugby, I might take a wander down to my local club and get involved" then it's a good thing and those of us that prefer a purer form of rugby have the rest of the season to enjoy it.

Munchkin wrote:How can we admit to something we don't actually believe, Chunky? Most of this exists only inside your walnut.
We want stronger broadcasting deals. We want the Regions to sort out their fixture list so that they can equally share the burden of Sunday fixtures. We want the welsh to negotiate a better broadcasting deal.
We acknowledge that officiating of games could be improved across all leagues, including our own. We want to see better use of the TMO (I personally would like to see them scrapped). We want to see 'neutral' refs at every game, and reffing at a high standard.

Not an issue for you is it. Doesn't affect your teams so it's not a problem. You want the regions to sort out their fixture list, but this can only happen if Ulsters Friday games are slashed in number and Munster start playign at home on a Sunday. Will those sides agree to that for a fairer league? Would they eb in favour of renegotiating the tv deal to reflect this? Will they balls.

As for the Christmas camp? What has that got to do with you, or any other Pro12 nation? Keep your beak out.

That perfectly illustrates my point. It weakens the league we play in, but you don't think we should have any opinion on the matter. Shameless.

Eligibility of the final venue? We have been over this before. Let's see what happens after this years final.

"...these things suit the Irish sides..." This is Chunky speak. Irrational, conspirational, bitter, victim playing hogwash.

It is the likes of you that do damage to the Regions, Chunky. You work against Scarlets success.

Again, it's just not an issue because it doesn't affect the Irish.

Munchkin wrote:

As for the Christmas camp? What has that got to do with you, or any other Pro12 nation? Keep your beak out.

This perception comes from the lazy journalism across the water that calls us all 'Celts'  - incidently funny how in the 60s, 70s, 80s and even 90s that was such a dirty word at one point - now everyone wants a bit of it - on both islands.  But I digress as usual.  Yes, Chunky and others in the 'Celts' camp continuously assume the 'Celts' are one Nation and that therefore Chunky and the Welsh should have a say in when Irish Internationals show for their Nation and for their Provinces.

So blame the perception on the English media's use of the word 'Celts'.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:How can we admit to something we don't actually believe, Chunky? Most of this exists only inside your walnut.
We want stronger broadcasting deals. We want the Regions to sort out their fixture list so that they can equally share the burden of Sunday fixtures. We want the welsh to negotiate a better broadcasting deal.
We acknowledge that officiating of games could be improved across all leagues, including our own. We want to see better use of the TMO (I personally would like to see them scrapped). We want to see 'neutral' refs at every game, and reffing at a high standard.

Not an issue for you is it. Doesn't affect your teams so it's not a problem. You want the regions to sort out their fixture list, but this can only happen if Ulsters Friday games are slashed in number and Munster start playign at home on a Sunday. Will those sides agree to that for a fairer league? Would they eb in favour of renegotiating the tv deal to reflect this? Will they balls.

As for the Christmas camp? What has that got to do with you, or any other Pro12 nation? Keep your beak out.

That perfectly illustrates my point. It weakens the league we play in, but you don't think we should have any opinion on the matter. Shameless.

Eligibility of the final venue? We have been over this before. Let's see what happens after this years final.

"...these things suit the Irish sides..." This is Chunky speak. Irrational, conspirational, bitter, victim playing hogwash.

It is the likes of you that do damage to the Regions, Chunky. You work against Scarlets success.

Again, it's just not an issue because it doesn't affect the Irish.

Again with the conspiracy nonsense of officiating favouring the Provinces. You only see what you want to see, Chunky, and what you want to see is anything that paints the Regions as victims for the benefit of the Provinces.
Chunky you ramble on about the fixture list as if it's the fault of the Provinces, and Ulster in particular. It is the Welsh that negotiate the Regions broadcasting deal! Not the Provinces. It is the Welsh that have agreed to the Sunday fixtures, not the Provinces. Your claim that Ulster slashing
Friday games is needed to make fairer fixtures for the Regions is as baffling as it is bizarre. How many home Sunday fixtures have the Scarlets and Ospreys played this season, Chunky? Now how many have Dragons and Cardiff played? Is it fair that Scarlets don't share the burden of home Sunday fixtures with the others? You pressure the Scarlets into sharing that burden if you're so incensed by the unfairness, Chunky.

How many times have you been told that we are not in control of your broadcasting deals? You sort them out. We can't do it for you.

Ok, in what way does the Christmas camp weaken Pro12? Give me details, Chunky.

The thing is, BBC NI having games on a Friday doesn't stop S4C moving their games from Sunday to Friday for instance. Understand that if Ulster are playing Ospreys in Belfast on Friday and Dragons are playing Scarlets you don't want a fixture clash there because there is an overlap in audience. But there are plenty of weekends where S4C could move their games to a slot where two non-Welsh teams are playing that isn't on a Sunday. For example; if Ulster are playing Glasgow on Friday and Leinster are playing Zebre on Saturday night, S4C could put their game featuring a Welsh side on in either of those slots confident that there will be little overlap in the audiences they are going for. They don't need to have as many Sunday games as they do. It's a bizarre and tenuous argument that somehow Irish teams are 'hoarding' the best TV slots when there's nothing to stop S4C broadcasting a game in the same slot as an Irish team most weekends.

Aren't the broadcasting deals sorted out by Celtic Rugby (or whatever they're called now)? So it's "us" not "you" (not me "us", you "us").

Or does "us" not really exist on here? If this forum is representative you are all pretty ed

No harm in having competing partners, Hammer. All helps to raise the game

HammerofThunor wrote:Aren't the broadcasting deals sorted out by Celtic Rugby (or whatever they're called now)? So it's "us" not "you" (not me "us", you "us").

Or does "us" not really exist on here? If this forum is representative you are all pretty ed

I don't know, Hammer.  What exactly does "Us" mean in an ERCC context?  The Top14 League is "You"?  We're "You?"  You (AP) are "us"?

I don't know.  I think "we're" all f**ked there too.

And on to AP itself.  Is Saracens "Them" or "Us"?   Are the teams that want an end to Relegation and no Cap "Us" or are they "Those"?

F**ked there too.



'Rugby is F**ked' seems to be the 'QED' on this thread.

HammerofThunor wrote:Aren't the broadcasting deals sorted out by Celtic Rugby (or whatever they're called now)? So it's "us" not "you" (not me "us", you "us").

Or does "us" not really exist on here? If this forum is representative you are all pretty ed

I think it's the Regions representative directors that negotiate on their behalf. So the Welsh directors. If it was such an issue for the Regions you would have to question why there has been no complaints? Could this be because those negotiating on their behalf consulted with them throughout the process and agreed with them the terms?

How is the Christmas camp damaging the league? There was 25.5k people in Thomand for the Munster Leinster match on Stephens day, which would be the third highest attended game in the Pro 12 all season. The two other inter pro matches in that period both had around 17k.

Sponsors/tv don't care whose playing, they care about how many are watching.

Chunks, why do S4C have to show games on a Sunday afternoon - given that their only other sports products appear to be "trotting" and the semi-pro Welsh soccer league, surely they could show a Friday night game or a Saturday game if they wanted to?
If the issue is Ulster playing on a Friday night (which if you don't live in Belfast is a complete pain for an Ulster supporter) why not do a joint broadcast with BBC Norn Iron when they play a Welsh team- both show the Friday night game from Ravenhill and both show the Saturday/Sunday game from Wales. Or indeed if it suits Welsh rugby play the Welsh game on a Friday night.
In regards to TV coverage what I'd really like to see is some form of agreement to show PRO12 on national BBC -say on BBC3 or 4 to give free to air rugby a chance on terrestrial TV.

Irish Londoner wrote:Chunks, why do S4C have to show games on a Sunday afternoon - given that their only other sports products appear to be "trotting" and the semi-pro Welsh soccer league, surely they could show a Friday night game or a Saturday game if they wanted to?

I assume Sunday is their slot unless one xceptional circumstances like judgement day. It's probably in the contract.

If the issue is Ulster playing on a Friday night (which if you don't live in Belfast is a complete pain for an Ulster supporter) why not do a joint broadcast with BBC Norn Iron when they play a Welsh team- both show the Friday night game from Ravenhill and both show the Saturday/Sunday game from Wales.

Doesn't that mean that less rugby is broadcast then? I'm not sure the league would be happy with that.

So what idiot agreeed the contract with S4C that meant that Welsh clubs were always tied to playing on Sundays - presumably some IRFU big wig was it ?
Incidentally isn't the reason that lots of Ospreys games are on a Sunday is because they groundshare with Swansea who play mostly on a Saturday?
Would be the same amount of rugby with hopefully a larger audience - S4C viewers + BBC NI viewers = more viewers per game.

Irish Londoner wrote:So what idiot agreeed the contract with S4C that meant that Welsh clubs were always tied to playing on Sundays - presumably some IRFU big wig was it ?

Presumably the same scumbag that wanted shot of the regions. Mr Lewis.

Incidentally isn't the reason that lots of Ospreys games are on a Sunday is because they groundshare with Swansea who play mostly on a Saturday?
Would be the same amount of rugby with hopefully a larger audience - S4C viewers + BBC NI viewers = more viewers per game.

There's no correlation between ground sharing teams at all. Both Ospreys and Dragons do it. And if we're talking about rfc rugby teams as well, then Cardiff and Scarlets also do it.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:Per the Kerdiff stats, attendances have grown in three of the four countries involved in the PRO12, even the most anti-PRO12/Regions poster would admit that, for example, the Welsh Double Header this year was a great success.

I have heard mixed reviews from people who attended the 'Judgement Day' double header game this year.  Some people said how it was a great party atmosphere (these are generally people who attend mainly international games), but others have said that they were constantly standing up and down to let people go get beer, and dodging paper aeroplanes that were being thrown around, even thrown on the pitch (these were generally people who attend regional/club/village games regularly).  So it will be interesting to see how this translates to attendances next year.  Fingers crossed the attendances will be up with more of the non-regular regional watchers turning up (but sadly probably less regional regulars).

SS, obviously from your post you weren't there, I for one was and IMO it was an excellent day out, as have been the 2 previous JDs, and in the vicinity I was sitting there were very many Regional supporters of all the teams, this was on the lower tier quite close to one of the 10 metre lines, and to say with any degree of certainty where the paper aeroplanes were thrown from is disingenuous, as where we were sitting the aeroplanes were coming in different directions on both sides of the pitch

It was Poopie. And my team won.

I can't judge on what sort of day it was, but it would be hard to complain about the price at £10 a ticket.

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:
Believe it or not, there's nothing more most Irish posters on here (and off this board) would like to see than the Welsh competing again across all four regions

I find that extremely hard to believe, on seeing the responses that our (or my) conerns are met with, i.e. - local TMOs, changing the final venue mid season, kick off times etc

You'd have a very weird concept of Rugby Development if you didn't.  
It would suit Irish Provinces that perhaps two Welsh Regions went out of business, and that the other two suffered over the next four or five years with low attendances, and low morale, and less of the players they want, and bad coaching, and poor results?

And it would suit Irish Provinces that Scottish teams would fall back down in ability too?  And no need to even mention the Italians - as their failure doesn't even concern you at all - even though they too are 'Partners' in Pro12 and the Irish are being constantly accused of not caring about the Regions.....

Anyway.... its bunk.  

Irish Provinces Selfishly (yes, for their own purely selfish reasons, you'll be glad to hear) Need a Strong League and Strong Welsh sides to keep their own standards up (Leinster being a side that now know they have to pull up their socks, and have just lost a coach because the Pro12 was a standard they couldn't match this season).

Thanks for the rude awakening Pro12 partners.  Quality of rugby Must improve now in Leinster to compete.  If Quality improves to match Glasgow, Ospreys and Munster then that will be overall very good.  Leinster fans will welcome it - as it means it will also hopefully improve performances against English and French sides (another purely selfish side benefit)
....and it will also hopefully give more bite at International level too.

So if you think the Provinces want death and destruction to Welsh Regions and to win everything in a poor quality league year in and year out, then you have a poor understanding of how and why standards in rugby keep going up and a poor concept of outright Irish Selfishness.  

But of course twist the question back at you and I think we'd all wonder what your honest answer would be, Chunky?  

"There is nothing more that Welsh posters want than to see 4 Strong Irish Provinces competing in Pro12".  

You agree?

Chunky, sorry to offend, but I have to agree with both Fly and Munchkin on this, if you think the Irish or ANY of the participating countries want weak teams from any of the other countries in our League you are sadly mistaken, why do you think the Dragons have the vast majority of Sunday games since our League was introduced?

Chunky Norwich wrote:It was Poopie. And my team won.

I didn't expect any other response from you, and that has nothing to do with your team winning.