How Gutted Is Groves?

After James Degale's win on Saturday, how gutted is Groves going to be that James beat him to a world title?

Do you think Groves will beat Jack and will he still ask for the lion share of the money if/when they agree to fight next year?

Big fan of Degale since day one but especially since the Groves loss, I think he gained more than he lost even in defeat!

Cheers :-)

Don't think Groves will be THAT fussed TBH, DeGale has always been the one with the inferiority complex out of the two. Didn't see anything against Dirrell that should worry Groves unduly. Before their first fight, Groves spared with Dirrell and was heard to say "Andre Dirrell is the fight James Degale wishes he could be!"

During the middle of the fight DeGale looked clueless as Dirrell clawed his way back into the fight and Jim McDonneel did sweet F.A. to stop the rot

Gotta laugh at Froch being his usual pr!ck self after the fight and talking about how DeGale 'just' did enough for the win.

Was a darn sight more decisive a win than yours Frochy!!

Groves knocks Jack out for me and he should ask for the lions share of the money. If he asked for less than Degale I'd be very surprised.

Froch on Twitter: "So jamesdegale1 wakes up this morning as the new IBF World Champion!Congratulations Chunky! Enjoy it Champ"

Wow what a vile scumbag wow

I don't think he will be gutted. He's got a pretty big ego and still thinks Froch got lucky. I'd imagine he just thinks he'll whup him again ( he didn't the first time and I'd make DeGale slight fav at the mo ) at some point and make his point.

When it comes to these two, it's a rare example of a rivalry and dislike between two fighters actually being genuine and storied, I think, rather than all this ridiculous forced garbage we get showered with, so I think it'll be a little bit of an annoyance to Groves.

Nothing to lose sleep over, but in the run up to their first fight Groves did mention that he had been a little bit jealous and wound up over Degale being selected for the Olympics ahead of him despite beating him in the ABAs - and now as professional he's beaten him again, and again been pipped to the biggest prize despite that. Combined with his sense of injustice over that first Froch fight he might feel that Degale has something which could / should have been his all over again, although I'm sure the pair of them are a bit different in their mindsets than they were back in their amateur days.

Still, doubt it'll be more than a very small issue for him as he's right on Degale's coat tails with another title shot of his own coming up very soon. The momentum between them and their careers has switched back and forth two or three times already, so not a particularly big issue. If Groves beats Jack - which I think he should do if he's at or near his best - then nobody will really care about who bagged their belt first.

I genuinely think that Groves would be happy to split it down the middle with Degale to make a unifcation bout happen. He values himself highly and knows how to sell himself, but he's also shown himself to be very ambitious and confident in his abilities. I reckon the pair of them will really fancy the job and once Groves (hopefully) bags his own title it'll be a relatively straightforward one to make by recent standards (I'm contrasting it to the Khan-Brook and Quigg-Frampton farces).

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Froch on Twitter: "So jamesdegale1 wakes up this morning as the new IBF World Champion!Congratulations Chunky! Enjoy it Champ"

Wow what a vile scumbag wow

Saying someone did "just enough", is hardly much of a platitude, is it.....?

He did do just enough, had he lost the 12th round the fight would have been a draw so I do not see the issue with that statement.

I haven't watched the whole fight due to moving house, but from what I've read (from those who think Degale won) is that he indeed did "just enough". So it sounds like accuracy to me

With regards to the Froch Dirrell fight it seems some have conveniently failed to mention that that fight was 5 and half years ago when Dirrell was probably the best he's ever been.

Credit to Degale, but the Dirrell who fought Froch was a better fighter than the one Degale fought.

88Chris05 wrote:When it comes to these two, it's a rare example of a rivalry and dislike between two fighters actually being genuine and storied, I think, rather than all this ridiculous forced garbage we get showered with, so I think it'll be a little bit of an annoyance to Groves.

Nothing to lose sleep over, but in the run up to their first fight Groves did mention that he had been a little bit jealous and wound up over Degale being selected for the Olympics ahead of him despite beating him in the ABAs - and now as professional he's beaten him again, and again been pipped to the biggest prize despite that. Combined with his sense of injustice over that first Froch fight he might feel that Degale has something which could / should have been his all over again, although I'm sure the pair of them are a bit different in their mindsets than they were back in their amateur days.

Still, doubt it'll be more than a very small issue for him as he's right on Degale's coat tails with another title shot of his own coming up very soon. The momentum between them and their careers has switched back and forth two or three times already, so not a particularly big issue. If Groves beats Jack - which I think he should do if he's at or near his best - then nobody will really care about who bagged their belt first.

I genuinely think that Groves would be happy to split it down the middle with Degale to make a unifcation bout happen. He values himself highly and knows how to sell himself, but he's also shown himself to be very ambitious and confident in his abilities. I reckon the pair of them will really fancy the job and once Groves (hopefully) bags his own title it'll be a relatively straightforward one to make by recent standards (I'm contrasting it to the Khan-Brook and Quigg-Frampton farces).

I agree with this. I think Groves would consider himself a bigger 'name' than Degale due to the Froch fights. Also think he'll back himself to beat Degale so will be confident of cashing in at a later date. Maybe Groves will push for 60-40, but I suspect he will have to accept 50-50. Think it'll happen as both would fancy the job and make a lot of money.

I should imagine Groves was delighted as if he can win his upcoming title match then the fact his fight with Degale will be a unification fight will add a few more quid on both their purses, i also think he will fancy he can outbox Degale based on what he saw Saturday night.

Groves and Degale should be 50/50 purse split, hard fight, but Groves knows if he can put a granite chinned fighter like Froch over he can do the same to Degale,if he lands the same punch on Degale, Chunkys going to be snoring.

No way Degale crosses his feet up and walks into shots like that though.

I've yet to see anything that suggests Degale doesn't have a solid chin either, it works the other way round too, if that left hook lands then it's goodnight Groves.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I've yet to see anything that suggests Degale doesn't have a solid chin either, it works the other way round too, if that left hook lands then it's goodnight Groves.

You need to watch the fight with Wilczewski, he was in trouble.

I thought Degale looked a bit shaky in the Khatchikian fight once he got tagged cleanly, too. Not a panic stations moment but I felt he was genuinely hurt and that Khatchikian let him off way too easily in that seventh round - could have had Degale in a lot of bother if he'd put his foot down then. Didn't really concern me that he got shaken up a bit (hey, this is boxing and it happens), more the fact that it seemed to really discourage him and make him go in to his negative shell for the next two or three rounds after he'd looked so good early on.

But as I said the other day, everything about Degale seems to have improved in the last twelve months, including his focus and belief. His chin and durability might not be absolutely top class - though I don't think they're areas of concern from what we've seen so far, either - but I think they're probably better than Groves'. I'd still wager that Groves is the more genuine knockout puncher of the pair which balances things out nicely.

Nico the gman wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I've yet to see anything that suggests Degale doesn't have a solid chin either, it works the other way round too, if that left hook lands then it's goodnight Groves.

You need to watch the fight with Wilczewski, he was in trouble.

He was too easy to hit, but I don't remember him ever looking in serious trouble.

Plus that was pressure getting caught on the ropes, can't see GG engaging in that manner and therefore an unlikely comparison.

88Chris05 wrote:But as I said the other day, everything about Degale seems to have improved in the last twelve months, including his focus and belief. His chin and durability might not be absolutely top class - though I don't think they're areas of concern from what we've seen so far, either - but I think they're probably better than Groves'. I'd still wager that Groves is the more genuine knockout puncher of the pair which balances things out nicely.

So basically since he signed with Matchroom and stopped fighting in shopping centres in front of a few hundred chavs & pikeys??

TopHat24/7 wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:But as I said the other day, everything about Degale seems to have improved in the last twelve months, including his focus and belief. His chin and durability might not be absolutely top class - though I don't think they're areas of concern from what we've seen so far, either - but I think they're probably better than Groves'. I'd still wager that Groves is the more genuine knockout puncher of the pair which balances things out nicely.

So basically since he signed with Matchroom and stopped fighting in shopping centres in front of a few hundred chavs & pikeys??

Yup

It depends if Groves had a Mayweather mind he might think how lucrative a unification fight with Degale might be should he beat Jack.

He knows the benifit of a huge British world title fight

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Nico the gman wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I've yet to see anything that suggests Degale doesn't have a solid chin either, it works the other way round too, if that left hook lands then it's goodnight Groves.

You need to watch the fight with Wilczewski, he was in trouble.

He was too easy to hit, but I don't remember him ever looking in serious trouble.

Plus that was pressure getting caught on the ropes, can't see GG engaging in that manner and therefore an unlikely comparison.

Try watching the 5th round again.

Groves looked fantastic in the first Froch fight. He also boxed ok, until getting caught with that bomb in the rematch.

He hasn't looked too sharp recently but perhaps the step up to another title shot will bring the best out in him.

If Groves gets a world title, then this rematch will be huge. The trash talk alone would make decent viewing.

I dont think Degale v Groves will be happening anytime soon.

DAVE667 wrote:Don't think Groves will be THAT fussed TBH, DeGale has always been the one with the inferiority complex out of the two. Didn't see anything against Dirrell that should worry Groves unduly. Before their first fight, Groves spared with Dirrell and was heard to say "Andre Dirrell is the fight James Degale wishes he could be!"

During the middle of the fight DeGale looked clueless as Dirrell clawed his way back into the fight and Jim McDonneel did sweet F.A. to stop the rot

All talk though, as Groves lost twice to Groves in the UK, While Degale beat the fighter that most had beating Froch, in his own back yard, So I think Groves must have a big of green mist that Degale took his first chance with both hands, while Groves let his slip twice

Still think the rematch is going to be good, But Degale will UD it.

I'd imagine that groves would be a little peeved at the success of his rival, but that it would be offset by the dollar signs lighting up in his eyes.

tunes666 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Don't think Groves will be THAT fussed TBH, DeGale has always been the one with the inferiority complex out of the two. Didn't see anything against Dirrell that should worry Groves unduly. Before their first fight, Groves spared with Dirrell and was heard to say "Andre Dirrell is the fight James Degale wishes he could be!"

During the middle of the fight DeGale looked clueless as Dirrell clawed his way back into the fight and Jim McDonneel did sweet F.A. to stop the rot

All talk though, as Groves lost twice to Groves in the UK, While Degale beat the fighter that most had beating Froch, in his own back yard, So I think Groves must have a big of green mist that Degale took his first chance with both hands, while Groves let his slip twice

Still think the rematch is going to be good, But Degale will UD it.

Unsurprising post for DeGold's number 1 fanboy.

Groves took on a significantly harder challenge and lost. DeGold took on the easier route and succeeded. Simple as that really.

If there is a rematch I definitely favour Degale. It will be a close fight but I give him the edge.

Would definitely like to see it!

I think the Froch losses have taken something from GG, whereas DeGale has moved the other direction.

Favour DeGale to take a narrow win this time round.

TopHat24/7 wrote:I think the Froch losses have taken something from GG, whereas DeGale has moved the other direction.

Favour DeGale to take a narrow win this time round.

that is why I pick Degale. Groves has looke a little stiff his last couple fights.

Who knows, maybe if he wins his title fight, that will give him his usual bravado. Plus we know these guys dislike eachother so both will definitely bring their best.

If Ward leaves the division, as it looks like he will, and Froch retires, as it looks like he will, then these two will probably be #1 and #2 therefore a unification match could be pretty huge.

Funny how the momentum between these two has swung so many times already. There always seem to be distinct times where one is ahead of the other in people's estimations and when most people pick him to beat the other whenever they next fight, but it never seems to last that long.

When they both turned professional obviously the gold medal for Degale made people sit up and take notice a bit more. Then Groves beats the better opponents in their first eighteen months in the pro ranks and, from memory, there was probably a slight leaning towards him from most people about who was the better prospect and who'd win if they fought.

All of a sudden, that goes out the window as Groves has a bit of a torrid time against Anderson and Degale shines very soon after against Smith. As a result, when they fight a few months afterwards Degale goes in as a pretty big favourite, which perhaps he shouldn't have done in retrospect. Groves upsets the odds, wins the decision and kicks on steadily and impressively, whereas Degale's momentum slows as his profile dwindles.

Groves gets to world title level while Degale is still looking relatively uninspiring on Channel 5 against lesser opponents, and by the time Groves stuns a lot of people with his performance in that first Froch fight most people now believe he's totally left Degale behind and would have a field day with him if they were to ever rematch.

Fast forward a little. Groves gets splattered at Wembley and looks jaded and sluggish in his two fights since then. Degale gets a new opportunity to impress a wider audience on Sky and grasps it with both hands and, while Groves' performances take a dip, Degale's show a marked improvement and before you know it, he's won his little race against Groves to a world title. And of course, now it's Degale who is just about everyone's pick to win a rematch between them, the one who is on an upward trajectory, the safer bet to make it in the long run at the top of the division etc.

To me, history suggests that both of them are capable of beating the other on any given day, that neither is a clearly superior talent than the other and that any fight between them, no matter how many times they box, is likely to be close and ultra-competitive. I'd go with Degale right now simply because, with them being so evenly matched, I feel he's due a win over Groves by the law of averages having lost twice to him in close, controversial fights (one of them in the amateurs, admittedly) and as of right now, he looks the better fighter. But not a fight I'd want to bet anything on.

It's not a fight I'd choose to bet on. The first fight was wafer thin and could have gone either way, their careers have both ebbed and flowed since and momentum is with degale. A good performance against jack from groves and we might see it differently again.

However, being knocked out emphatically in front of 80,000 at wembley (TM Carl Froch inc) may have had a lasting effect on groves' confidence. A lot of fighters are never the same. If I had to bet right now I'd bet on degale, but without a great deal of confidence.

Think Groves will be able to get the bigger share.

DeGale will be desperate to beat him and I'm sure Groves will be fairly vocal about having beat him twice. Really do think he'll be able to get in his head in both the negotiations and in the fight.

Groves will be elated not gutted.....Hasn't made enough money to retire and sees a guy he knows he can beat line up a huge payday in a stadium with him...

£5 million, maybe another title after he beats Jack and security for the rest of his life..

Toppy, Degale went the exact same route as Groves, he can't be blamed for Froch vacating, you did state yesterday that Degale beat Dirrell more convincingly than Froch, so which is it?

they could have another fight, call it "ACT III" the theme music takes care of itself

Both would think the fight is bigger than it is....

Froch put the debate to rest in the second fight and like it or not for some is 2-0.....

Won't be half the interest in Act 3..

It's a private joke for Hammersmith, don't worry about it dear chap

DAVE667 wrote:It's a private joke for Hammersmith, don't worry about it dear chap

I do worry about you..

I agree with Chris. These two seem to go in cycles and them meeting again is inevitable. Right now DeGale is riding the crest of a wave but who's to say there won't be a shift in form between now and when they meet again?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:It's a private joke for Hammersmith, don't worry about it dear chap

I do worry about you..

Awww, that's so sweet!

Will be interesting to see how Groves looks after a nice break from the sport. He has looked poor last two outings, but maybe with a rest and some more time to gel with Paddy, he will be better. Could work out perfectly for both GG and DeGale, if Groves can win the WBC. Even if he loses he is likely gonna get the DeGale rematch as he has a win over him. Although he'd be taking far less money after another defeat.

DAVE667 wrote:they could have another fight, call it "ACT III" the theme music takes care of itself

Just a shame the WBO title wouldn't on the line, 'the organisation' would have been perfect.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Toppy, Degale went the exact same route as Groves, he can't be blamed for Froch vacating, you did state yesterday that Degale beat Dirrell more convincingly than Froch, so which is it?

He beat him more convincingly, doesn't mean Froch didn't have a harder job to do.

And re the 'same route' point. One took on a guy pretty much at his peak and the undeniable divisional #2 where the #1 is (if active) in the upper echelons of p4p lists. The other guy took on a faded version of a former top guy who wasn't even a champion. Seem like pretty different routes to title to me, even if for the same belt.

If you ignore the facts then identical routes can be twisted to be different.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:they could have another fight, call it "ACT III" the theme music takes care of itself

Just a shame the WBO title wouldn't on the line, 'the organisation' would have been perfect.

Or "Veil of Deception"

I think the rivalry has gotten a bit 'stagnant' but i'm sure you'll be looking forward to seeing them 'bloodsoaked' come the final bell.

Id fancy Degale to win a rematch and have done since their first fight. Fight could have gone either way but got the impression Degale boxed below his potential while Groves didnt.

Matchroom have struggling to make these fights happen and Groves has an already frosty relationship with them. They will prob want to have it in a stadium which mean it wont make it in time this year. Probably looking at least a year or more before a rematch gets serious. Paul Smith to fight both again in the interim.