Merthyr RFC set to become new force in Welsh Rugby

by GavinDragon Tue 02 Jun 2015, 4:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/merthyr-rfc-set-become-new-9377183

Thoughts?

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:06 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Every other reader can see for themselves.

No, you mean every supporter of their regions can see for themselves. Blind loyalty to the team you support, and not acknowledging any of the failures.

Again, you're confusing matters. You are seeing a loss as a failure, without any kind of context.

This is why you think that being in the match in the 78th minute, but losing, is a 'tonking'. It's an illogical claim.

You also think that losing to better funded teams is a failure. Again, that's illogical.

The only 'blind loyalty' I'm spotting in this thread is your own to this straw man value set you've created, but not defined.

Please, do tell me what you think our four teams should achieve next season.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:08 am

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Like I said, lets wait until next season then.

Do you agree, there should be NO excuses next season ?

Excuses for what? I don't understand, so cannot share, your yardstick or expectation.

Next season, I do not expect to see the regions going away from home and leaking 4+ tries in almost every game, no matter how many they score back. Also, I would expect to see at least three regions in the top six of the league.

Like you said, since Nov 2015, there is a new dawn, so there should be improvements as well.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:11 am

PhilBB wrote:The only 'blind loyalty' I'm spotting in this thread is your own to this straw man value set you've created, but not defined.

Phil, for the last few seasons, Cardiff Blues have finished outside the top 6, they are usually 8th, last year 9th. I look at the league, and what position do I see them in ? Yes, 8th. That is not an improvement, it is more of the same, even though you keep on about better rugby on the pitch. If Cardiff Blues end up in the top 6 this season, then I will personally meet you down the Arms Park and by you a pint and concede that you were right all along, but at the minute the league tells a different story.

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:17 am

LordDowlais wrote:

Next season, I do not expect to see the regions going away from home and leaking 4+ tries in almost every game, no matter how many they score back. Also, I would expect to see at least three regions in the top six of the league.

Like you said, since Nov 2015, there is a new dawn, so there should be improvements as well.

So, despite 7 teams having higher playing budgets (6, at least), you expect three teams in the top 6.

And your measure of competitiveness is not conceding tries regardless of how many are scored.

So, by that measure, the Turks could go to Saracens, win 28-54 yet you'd not be happy.

Hmmm. I don't think that we share the same approach to logic.

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:18 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Phil, for the last few seasons, Cardiff Blues have finished outside the top 6, they are usually 8th, last year 9th. I look at the league, and what position do I see them in ? Yes, 8th. That is not an improvement, it is more of the same, even though you keep on about better rugby on the pitch. If Cardiff Blues end up in the top 6 this season, then I will personally meet you down the Arms Park and by you a pint and concede that you were right all along, but at the minute the league tells a different story.

Here you go again, unable to differentiate improvement from relative improvement.

Finishing top 6 this season, with this squad, with this budget, would be an enormous achievement.

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:20 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Like I said, lets wait until next season then.

Do you agree, there should be NO excuses next season ?

Excuses for what? I don't understand, so cannot share, your yardstick or expectation.

Next season, I do not expect to see the regions going away from home and leaking 4+ tries in almost every game, no matter how many they score back. Also, I would expect to see at least three regions in the top six of the league.

Like you said, since Nov 2015, there is a new dawn, so there should be improvements as well.

So who do you expect to see dropping out of the top six?

Last season we had Leinster, Ulster, Munster, Glasgow, Scarlets and Ospreys in the top 6. This season we are looking likely to have Scarlets, Leinster, Ulster, Munster, and one of Connacht, Edinburgh or Ospreys. So for us to get three up there who would drop out? Also, if it were Glasgow to miss out, that would mean whoever finishes in 6th would not get into the RCC anyway, as the Scottish would get that place.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:30 am

You all keep harping on about budgets, FFS, having extra money will not stop the endless stupid tactics we employ at the regions, they will not stop players making basic errors if there was more money.

Take a look at last Sunday's game between Ospreys and Glasgow, there were knock on's all over the place, missed passes, missing touch with penalties ect.

Like I said, the regions could have the full New Zealand team playing for them, the fact that they will keep doing the same thing and hoping it will end up working will not change.

But this is where I will agree with Phil, Cardiff Blues are starting to improve in their tactical area or on the pitch improvements, whether that leads to improvements overall tough, I cannot see any yet.

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:33 am

LordDowlais wrote:You all keep harping on about budgets, FFS, having extra money will not stop the endless stupid tactics we employ at the regions, they will not stop players making basic errors if there was more money.

Take a look at last Sunday's game between Ospreys and Glasgow, there were knock on's all over the place, missed passes, missing touch with penalties ect.

Like I said, the regions could have the full New Zealand team playing for them, the fact that they will keep doing the same thing and hoping it will end up working will not change.

But this is where I will agree with Phil, Cardiff Blues are starting to improve in their tactical area or on the pitch improvements, whether that leads to improvements overall tough, I cannot see any yet.

Last Sunday's game was between two second teams.

You cannot deny that higher budgets allow for better players which allows for better play. Therefore, budgets are hugely important.

It would be illogical to discount budgets.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:33 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Last season we had Leinster, Ulster, Munster, Glasgow, Scarlets and Ospreys in the top 6. This season we are looking likely to have Scarlets, Leinster, Ulster, Munster, and one of Connacht, Edinburgh or Ospreys. So for us to get three up there who would drop out? Also, if it were Glasgow to miss out, that would mean whoever finishes in 6th would not get into the RCC anyway, as the Scottish would get that place.

I would like to see Scarlets, Cardiff Blues and Ospreys in the top six, they are just as good, if not better than Edinburgh and Connacht, it will be tight, but I would at least expect them to make a fist of it.

I would also like to see Dragons fighting it out and having the chance of the 7th playoff spot, the thing is, for the most part, the league is over early for some of out regions, I would like us all in for a chance until the last.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:34 am

PhilBB wrote:It would be illogical to discount budgets.

I have not discounted budgets, have I ?

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:36 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:It would be illogical to discount budgets.

I have not discounted budgets, have I ?

You've tried to, yes. You did so when you asked the rhetorical question of the Exeter vs Os game.

You expect three of our sides to be top 6 when there are at least 6 other sides with higher budgets.

So, it does seem that you have discounted budgets, yes.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:37 am

I must say, the last couple of pages have been a cracking read.

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:38 am

LordDowlais wrote:

I would like to see Scarlets, Cardiff Blues and Ospreys in the top six, they are just as good, if not better than Edinburgh and Connacht, it will be tight, but I would at least expect them to make a fist of it.

I would also like to see Dragons fighting it out and having the chance of the 7th playoff spot, the thing is, for the most part, the league is over early for some of out regions, I would like us all in for a chance until the last.

Yet when Cardiff had 'a chance until the last' in two games against Harlequins and one against Montpellier, you claimed those losses as 'tonkings'. That seems rather inconsistent.

So your top 6 is to be three Irish teams, one Scottish team and three Welsh teams.

Have a think about that.

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:38 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I must say, the last couple of pages have been a cracking read.

Is he always this illogical?

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:41 am

It can be hard work.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:41 am

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:It would be illogical to discount budgets.

I have not discounted budgets, have I ?

You've tried to, yes. You did so when you asked the rhetorical question of the Exeter vs Os game.

You expect three of our sides to be top 6 when there are at least 6 other sides with higher budgets.

So, it does seem that you have discounted budgets, yes.

No I didn't, you are skewing things to favour your inability to see what is in front of you. I said on that occasion, that I expect a side containing half a dozen Welsh internationals to do a lot better than they did. Budgets do not come into it when you consider the tallent that was on the field that day.

Also, having bigger budgets will not change the fact, that the regions have NO pressure on them to improve. They could all have 10 million a year budgets, but with the way they are run, and the fact there is no punishment for failure means that there is nothing to make them look over their shoulders.

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:44 am

LordDowlais wrote:

No I didn't, you are skewing things to favour your inability to see what is in front of you. I said on that occasion, that I expect a side containing half a dozen Welsh internationals to do a lot better than they did. Budgets do not come into it when you consider the tallent that was on the field that day.

Also, having bigger budgets will not change the fact, that the regions have NO pressure on them to improve. They could all have 10 million a year budgets, but with the way they are run, and the fact there is no punishment for failure means that there is nothing to make them look over their shoulders.

Erm, it is the budget that puts the talent on the field so it's even more illogical to claim "Budgets do not come into it when you consider the tallent that was on the field that day."

The second paragraph, above, seems yet another chance to shift the goalposts although I can see why you'd want to. I can also see why you've refused to state which coaches are out of their depth and which players aren't trying.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:45 am

PhilBB wrote:Is he always this illogical?

Yeah right, I'm the illogical one, yet you are the one saying the regions are improving, yet Cardiff Blues are in the same league position they have been for the last few seasons, Ospreys have gone from top four to bottom four, Dragons are the bottom non Italian team, and Scarlets did not win a single game in Europe.

Yep, that's me, being very illogical.

But never mind there are improvements on the pitch. Rolling Eyes

by No 7&1/2 Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:47 am

Who should punish the regions for failure?

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:51 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Is he always this illogical?

Yeah right, I'm the illogical one, yet you are the one saying the regions are improving, yet Cardiff Blues are in the same league position they have been for the last few seasons, Ospreys have gone from top four to bottom four, Dragons are the bottom non Italian team, and Scarlets did not win a single game in Europe.

Yep, that's me, being very illogical.

But never mind there are improvements on the pitch.

I think that most intelligent folk can determine an improvement doesn't necessarily immediately mean (or lead to) a relative improvement.

And I only mentioned Cardiff. I didn't mention the other three PRW teams. You seem to have added fabrication to your illogical approach.

That's pretty poor form.

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:51 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Who should punish the regions for failure?

By what measure have they failed?

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:51 am

PhilBB wrote:Erm, it is the budget that puts the talent on the field so it's even more illogical to claim "Budgets do not come into it when you consider the tallent that was on the field that day."

IF you put the Ospreys starting 15 on paper to the Exeter one, I know which one people would say looks the strongest.

PhilBB wrote:The second paragraph, above, seems yet another chance to shift the goalposts although I can see why you'd want to.

What are you on about, I have not shifted any goal posts, another attempt at skewing things in your favour, I have said from point one that no matter how much money is spent it will not change the way the regions are.

PhilBB wrote:I can also see why you've refused to state which coaches are out of their depth and which players aren't trying.

Well Steve Tandy and his team for a start, Lyn Jones, they are both not pulling their weight. I will hold judgment on the coaching team at Cardiff Blues, until we see what happens next season.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:52 am

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Who should punish the regions for failure?

By what measure have they failed?

Not saying they have, just wondered who shoudl hold them to account in an 'ideal world'.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:53 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Who should punish the regions for failure?

Thats the trouble, there is nobody, so they could finish in the bottom four respectivley every season, and not win a game in Europe, but they could carry on the same regardless. It's depressing.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:54 am

So who should in your opinion?

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:54 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Erm, it is the budget that puts the talent on the field so it's even more illogical to claim "Budgets do not come into it when you consider the tallent that was on the field that day."

IF you put the Ospreys starting 15 on paper to the Exeter one, I know which one people would say looks the strongest.

PhilBB wrote:The second paragraph, above, seems yet another chance to shift the goalposts although I can see why you'd want to.

What are you on about, I have not shifted any goal posts, another attempt at skewing things in your favour, I have said from point one that no matter how much money is spent it will not change the way the regions are.

PhilBB wrote:I can also see why you've refused to state which coaches are out of their depth and which players aren't trying.

Well Steve Tandy and his team for a start, Lyn Jones, they are both not pulling their weight. I will hold judgment on the coaching team at Cardiff Blues, until we see what happens next season.

"Most people" wouldn't be in a position to judge the strengths of the two teams as they'd not be sufficiently clued up, like yourself, about both.

Your goalpost shift was as I explained it to be.

Good to see you've mentioned Tandy and Jones, but seemingly excused their team of coaches. I'm guessing that's because, even though you'd now Google it, you don't know who is in their team.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:55 am

PhilBB wrote:And I only mentioned Cardiff. I didn't mention the other three PRW teams. You seem to have added fabrication to your illogical approach.

OK then Phil, I will play it with you, but firstly can you please tell me Cardiff Blues last 4 league finishings, and what position we find ourself in now, please ?

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:55 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Who should punish the regions for failure?

Thats the trouble, there is nobody, so they could finish in the bottom four respectivley every season, and not win a game in Europe, but they could carry on the same regardless. It's depressing.

What 'punishment' would you dish out against what performance indicators?

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:57 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:And I only mentioned Cardiff. I didn't mention the other three PRW teams. You seem to have added fabrication to your illogical approach.

OK then Phil, I will play it with you, but firstly can you please tell me Cardiff Blues last 4 league finishings, and what position we find ourself in now, please ?

We've already done the dance, multiple times, with regards to an improvement not being a relative improvement.

Let me give you an example: your posting could lose the illogical approach to setting false achievement targets for the PRW teams. If you did that, your posting would improve. Relative to other posters, however, you'd still be writing nonsense.

Now, hopefully you'll understand.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:57 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:So who should in your opinion?

Well I would like to see the WRU allow a system, where if somebody else with a bunch of money wants to start a pro team, then they should be given the chance at the expense of a team that is not doing very well, and do not look like they are doing anything to change things.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 10:59 am

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:And I only mentioned Cardiff. I didn't mention the other three PRW teams. You seem to have added fabrication to your illogical approach.

OK then Phil, I will play it with you, but firstly can you please tell me Cardiff Blues last 4 league finishings, and what position we find ourself in now, please ?

We've already done the dance, multiple times, with regards to an improvement not being a relative improvement.

Let me give you an example: your posting could lose the illogical approach to setting false achievement targets for the PRW teams. If you did that, your posting would improve. Relative to other posters, however, you'd still be writing nonsense.

Now, hopefully you'll understand.

So no answer then ?

I thought so. You cannot debate with logic can you.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:00 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:So who should in your opinion?

Well I would like to see the WRU allow a system, where if somebody else with a bunch of money wants to start a pro team, then they should be given the chance at the expense of a team that is not doing very well, and do not look like they are doing anything to change things.

So who should hold them to account though? And who would decide their SMART targets?

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:00 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Well I would like to see the WRU allow a system, where if somebody else with a bunch of money wants to start a pro team, then they should be given the chance at the expense of a team that is not doing very well, and do not look like they are doing anything to change things.

By what measurement is 'not doing very well'?

And how much is 'a bunch of money'?

And what would happen to the 150 + employees of the business you'd arbitrarily shut down with little warning?

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:01 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:And I only mentioned Cardiff. I didn't mention the other three PRW teams. You seem to have added fabrication to your illogical approach.

OK then Phil, I will play it with you, but firstly can you please tell me Cardiff Blues last 4 league finishings, and what position we find ourself in now, please ?

We've already done the dance, multiple times, with regards to an improvement not being a relative improvement.

Let me give you an example: your posting could lose the illogical approach to setting false achievement targets for the PRW teams. If you did that, your posting would improve. Relative to other posters, however, you'd still be writing nonsense.

Now, hopefully you'll understand.

So no answer then ?

I thought so. You cannot debate with logic can you.

Erm, I did just answer. My point is that there is an obvious improvement. You are trying to turn that into a relative improvement that cannot be measured until May anyway.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:04 am

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Well I would like to see the WRU allow a system, where if somebody else with a bunch of money wants to start a pro team, then they should be given the chance at the expense of a team that is not doing very well, and do not look like they are doing anything to change things.

By what measurement is 'not doing very well'?

And how much is 'a bunch of money'?

And what would happen to the 150 + employees of the business you'd arbitrarily shut down with little warning?

Firstly I said nothing about shutting them down.

A bunch of money could be like what the owner of Cardiff Blues has, or perhaps the owner of Merthyr has.

By not doing very well, I mean by constantly finishing at the bottom of the league for ten years and not winning any silverware, and no hope in hell of it changing in the near future.

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:06 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Well I would like to see the WRU allow a system, where if somebody else with a bunch of money wants to start a pro team, then they should be given the chance at the expense of a team that is not doing very well, and do not look like they are doing anything to change things.

By what measurement is 'not doing very well'?

And how much is 'a bunch of money'?

And what would happen to the 150 + employees of the business you'd arbitrarily shut down with little warning?

Firstly I said nothing about shutting them down.

A bunch of money could be like what the owner of Cardiff Blues has, or perhaps the owner of Merthyr has.

By not doing very well, I mean by constantly finishing at the bottom of the league for ten years and not winning any silverware, and no hope in hell of it changing in the near future.

Shutting them down = "given the chance at the expense of a team that is not doing very well".

How much is 'a bunch of money'? Give me a figure.

So you'd want 5 teams, if you're not shutting anybody down?

by **RiscaGame** Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:09 am

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Leaking five point bonus wins make's them a soft touch.

Every away game Ospreys played in the CC they let the opposition score 4 or more tries, that suggests they are a soft touch.

Yes, there's that value set again.

In every away game the Ospreys played, they were up against a team with a significantly higher player budget.

Yet, despite all of that, they performed brilliantly to remain level on points with them all.

If you cannot see that as an achievement, either you're clueless on the budgets or you have such a falsely high bar for achievement that your purpose is to talk down the performances, regardless of context.

He's not clueless on budgets. He has used them in posts that I have shown him previously. Sadly, it's only a discussion worth having when it suits him (mostly when Chunky Norwich and him were trying to get the Irish going). So it's definitely the latter.

by **RiscaGame** Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:11 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Like I said, lets wait until next season then.

Do you agree, there should be NO excuses next season ?

Excuses for what? I don't understand, so cannot share, your yardstick or expectation.

Next season, I do not expect to see the regions going away from home and leaking 4+ tries in almost every game, no matter how many they score back. Also, I would expect to see at least three regions in the top six of the league.

Like you said, since Nov 2015, there is a new dawn, so there should be improvements as well.

So who do you expect to see dropping out of the top six?

Last season we had Leinster, Ulster, Munster, Glasgow, Scarlets and Ospreys in the top 6. This season we are looking likely to have Scarlets, Leinster, Ulster, Munster, and one of Connacht, Edinburgh or Ospreys. So for us to get three up there who would drop out? Also, if it were Glasgow to miss out, that would mean whoever finishes in 6th would not get into the RCC anyway, as the Scottish would get that place.

We've done this before with him.

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:13 am

RiscaGame wrote:

We've done this before with him.

Sorry, I've no real exposure to that.

I can share his frustration, I can understand his ire at the NGD, but I can't understand the achievement bar he has set.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:24 am

PhilBB wrote:So you'd want 5 teams, if you're not shutting anybody down?

No, the team not performing could be relegated to the Welsh prem.

by PhilBB Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:27 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So you'd want 5 teams, if you're not shutting anybody down?

No, the team not performing could be relegated to the Welsh prem.

So you'd relegate a business with a cost base of millions and put it into the Welsh Prem where its income would be about £250k.

But you wouldn't expect to put 150+ staff out of work.

I'm not sure that you've thought that through properly.

by mikey_dragon Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:29 am

LordDowlais wrote:mikey, why should there be WRU intervention ?

The regions are independent businesses, why should the WRU step in and save their @rses ?

It should be down to the people in charge of the regions to get it right, not the WRU.

LD, the WRU is the governing body for rugby union in Wales. They're responsible for running welsh rugby. The regions have some degree of autonomy, which they should, but ultimately it is the union focus to strengthen and grow the game - which should imply strong working relationships between the two parties. How does this need explaining to you?

by No 7&1/2 Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:30 am

LD, Who should hold them to account and decide their SMART targets?

by **RiscaGame** Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:31 am

Relegate them to the Prem. Genius. It's so obvious. Then this ready made team from the Prem can step up and conquer all.

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:33 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So you'd want 5 teams, if you're not shutting anybody down?

No, the team not performing could be relegated to the Welsh prem.

HOw can you do that. Especially if, as you claim to see it, three of the regions are just old clubs anyway. How would Cardiff V Cardiff, or Newport V Newport, or Llanelli v Llanelli work in the welsh prem?

by **RiscaGame** Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:36 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So you'd want 5 teams, if you're not shutting anybody down?

No, the team not performing could be relegated to the Welsh prem.

HOw can you do that. Especially if, as you claim to see it, three of the regions are just old clubs anyway. How would Cardiff V Cardiff, or Newport V Newport, or Llanelli v Llanelli work in the welsh prem?

It would do wonders for the Rodney Parade pitch

by mikey_dragon Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:37 am

PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:

I don't think so. Griff has already answered this btw, but you just think it's nonsense. Is anyone who disagrees with you talking nonsense?
You should see Phil and his crew on twitter. Go and have a read of their plans for how to save rugby and I'm willing to bet you "village idiots" is the first thing that springs to mind .

We've had players overlooked in the past though, and no support to help keep hold of them (see Faletau) so it's not entirely our fault. The position we've been in and are still in is not 'entirely' our fault, the same as it is for the BLUES region. Don't the regions get funding on top of NDC's btw? I was under the impression we would be getting less with this situation, hence the strong getting everyone's internationals and the weaker continuing to struggle.

You might be right on Lydiate. The Faletau situation was a lot different so you're definitely wrong there. If you actually read back you can see that there was the opportunity for more intervention, more money, etc. It was a blunder on both fronts (WRU and NGD).

Because they were playing well and due to be on the fringes of the squad, in positions we were light in (centre and wing). I didn't think the likes of King, Rh Jones were good enough to be in the international team, and certainly not on a French radar. It was only going to be a matter of time for the likes of Amos and Morgan if past trends are anything to go by. Do they both want out? Nonsensical claim unless backed up.

Phil, I'll refer you to my opening post. nonsenserfcfans.co.uk

Faletau made his move to Bath known before the RWC. Him wanting out of the NGD was well known in Welsh rugby circles and now Morgan and Amos want out, too. It wasn't a real blunder that he left, the blunder was allowing him the '£25,000' excuse.

NDCs shouldn't be for players 'on the fringes of the squad'. Neither Amos nor Morgan deserve an NDC. Neither are on 'the French radar'.

I don't quite understand what the rest of that post means, sorry. However, if you think that the shambles that is the NGD isn't the fault solely of the NGD then, sadly, you are deluded and mistaken.

Faletau first had offers from Bath and a French club in 2013, but chose to extend his stay at NGD. So your rumour source isn't that great, in fact I'd stop referencing it altogether. I believe that both parties (WRU and NGD) could have forked out a better deal for Faletau, but it was widely known that Gats didn't want him to play in Wales. Quite shocking really but it wouldn't be the first time that players of this region have been ill treated. Morgan and Amos might not be here at their contract expiry date, but are they going anywhere any time soon, or this your rumour mill again?

Why shouldn't they? If front line players are injured then we need the next available player to step in. If that player is playing in England or France it causes issues, which has previously been well documented BTW, go look it up because I know you disagree. Amos and Morgan did deserve it and have shown that they do, unlike others Smile

. And also falling back on previous trends, Morgan and Amos would have been sought after by many richer clubs. The WRU (with Gatland as well probably) made a good move to offer these players NDCs.

It isn't solely the fault of NGD.

by LordDowlais Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:37 am

mikey_dragon wrote:which should imply strong working relationships between the two parties

But this has happened mikey, or have you forgotten the last war we have endured ? The relationships are there now, thus the new DC's and the what not, yet here we are arguing how crap the regions STILL are, and here I am still listening to the same excuses about budgets and funding.

But has Phil as pointed out, at least the Cardiff Blues are playing better rugby, evne if he point blank refuses to see that Cardiff are in the same position in the league they have been for the last 4 years, and they did worst in Europe this year than they did last year, but hey, they are improving.

by mikey_dragon Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:43 am

PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:WRUs prerogative doesn't seem to want 4 strong teams.

Yep, it's all the fault of the WRU.

Having met Phillips, I can personally note that mike's point there is also utter nonsense.

So why did they bail out Scarlets? Why do they carve up one team and give their players to other teams? Why no additional funding for 50% owned teams? Why not more intervention? I think you're reading a bit too much into LD's selective reply here (which was incorrect btw as I'm not saying it's the WRUs fault however it's a waste of time me attempting to explain this to Dowlais), which puts on you intermedidiot level with him. Before you reply I think Cardiff with their two multi-millionaire backers could go it alone. It was these guys that allowed you to fall into a 'black hole' btw so you can't really blame that much on Lewis.

The WRU have bailed out 'Scarlets'.
No players were 'given' to other teams.
The NGD cannot have additional 'funding' because that would lead to an obvious legal case from the other about the abuse of market position. Ditto 'intervention'.

Cardiff have four multi millionaire backers on the Board, by the way.

If you think that the 2009 PA didn't cause the recent disaster, plus Lewis' attempts to shut down the four teams, then you've clearly not been paying attention (giving you the benefit of the doubt that if you had paid attention then you'd have seen the blindingly obvious).

Players were practically given to other teams, and always have been. It will be to a greater extent when more sign up to a NDC. Your history must be a little hazy to not realise, but never mind.
Their 50% owners don't plow in money. It's their job if they own that great a share.

Four multi millionaire backers and 4 years in this slump? It's even worse than I thought. Your board brought in those players and coaches after Dai Young. They're boneheads getting involved in the rugby side of things and went on to prove how clueless they are. When you actually brought in a good coach from NZ they fired him. And yes I think I did miss Lewis' attempts to shut down the four teams - willing to be enlightened but certainly will not be taking your word as gospel.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 05 Feb 2016, 11:45 am

I assume you don't really have an answer then?

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