Merthyr RFC set to become new force in Welsh Rugby

First topic message reminder :

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/merthyr-rfc-set-become-new-9377183

Thoughts?

Steffan wrote:I quite like Cardiff rugby club although the beer is crap and bar staff's ability to serve people in a quick "matchday" fashion is pretty non-existent even when it was only a bunch of Ponty supporters on the day after boxing day match. Plus they hid all the champagne and prawn sandwiches from us. We are not sophisticated enough to appreciate such fine food and alcohol anyway I guess

You should see what it is like at RP's new "family zone" (yes I am hellbent on making this a Dragons' thread David!). They have about 3 staff on for the one fixture a year that we manage to sell out!

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
You were comparing PYS, and other stadiums, so please do move your goal posts, you are trying to convince me on a technicality, the Athletic club and the Arms park are two different venues, they are just next door to each other.

If you had said the club house before hand I would have inclined to agree with you, even though it is a tiny old poke of a club, but you were referring to stadiums and what they could offer all year around.

No, the Arms Park and Athletic Club are the same venue.

The Clubhouse is part of the stadium. It generates income on non-match days. You can even drop by for a coffee or a pint right now, if you wanted to.

So why are you mentioning goal posts?

Come on Phil, you know what you've done here, just let it go. By that reckoning, Merthyr already have a better facility in place than Cardiff and Llanelli, as there clubhouse is modern, bigger, and in Llanelli's case the Merthyr clubhouse has a much bigger customer base. 

You were banging on about stadiums, and how they can be used all year around. You did not mention clubhouses, clubhouses are not part of the stadium, you know it, I know it, and so does everybody else.

You were getting at corperate events, concerts ect. Not how many weddings you can cram into your clubhouse during the off season. Every rugby club in Wales has one of those.

While not related to rugby per se, this is fantastic news for Ebbw Vale and the heads of the valleys area. Hope it comes to fruition and sees some sustainable regeneration, not to mention improved economic performance, of the area.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-35526111

LordDowlais wrote:
Come on Phil, you know what you've done here, just let it go. By that reckoning, Merthyr already have a better facility in place than Cardiff and Llanelli, as there clubhouse is modern, bigger, and in Llanelli's case the Merthyr clubhouse has a much bigger customer base. 

You were banging on about stadiums, and how they can be used all year around. You did not mention clubhouses, clubhouses are not part of the stadium, you know it, I know it, and so does everybody else.

You were getting at corperate events, concerts ect. Not how many weddings you can cram into your clubhouse during the off season. Every rugby club in Wales has one of those.

I'm really not sure why you think that the facility in Merthyr is better than what's available at CAP or PyS but if you're judging the financial stability of a professional rugby team, requiring an £8m turnover per year to stand still, on the ability to host a wedding function then all the best to you.

It's an odd logic to think that the integrated facilities of PyS http://parcyscarlets.com/event/castell-howell-foods-ltd-spring-exhibition-2016/ aren't integrated to the ground, or that the facilities built into the South Stand at CAP (let alone the club house) are not 'part of the stadium', so I do wonder why you are taking that view.

http://www.cardiffblues.com/armspark/special_events.php
http://www.cardiffblues.com/corporate/venue_hire.php

So here we have lots of evidence of all year events at PyS and CAP. In response, you've let us know that 'The Wern' can host a wedding and an American company spends a few hundred quid a year on Tredegar Minis.

How's the weight of argument going? It seems to be as logical as you claiming that events at PyS and CAP aren't 'part of the stadium'.

Please let me know how that event at PyS isn't 'part of the stadium' or how the Clubhouse (let alone the inbuilt function rooms) is not part of CAP? Thanks.

GavinDragon wrote:While not related to rugby per se, this is fantastic news for Ebbw Vale and the heads of the valleys area. Hope it comes to fruition and sees some sustainable regeneration, not to mention improved economic performance, of the area.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-35526111

This has been rumbling on for a while now, glad to see it moving forward, if any of the superbikes GP gets there, the hotels and B&B's in all the valleys surrounding it will see a benefit, and the restaurants and bars in the towns.

I hope Phil sees this, he thinks there is nothing up here.

LordDowlais wrote:

I hope Phil sees this, he thinks there is nothing up here.

You seem to be of the opinion that if you keep writing a lie often enough then others might be fooled beyond thinking that you're just lying.

It's an odd tactic, reliant on self delusion.

Did you find that planning permission link, yet?

PhilBB wrote:In response, you've let us know that 'The Wern' can host a wedding and an American company spends a few hundred quid a year on Tredegar Minis.

Firstly the Wern cannot hold a wedding, Merthyr RFC can,the Arms park cannot hold a wedding, the Athletic Club can, although what point that is I do not know, as it is you who started this nonsense.

Secondly, you asked me to name you a world wide multinational company who is willing to put money into a rugby team, I answered you, so whats the problem ?

PhilBB wrote:
How's the weight of argument going? It seems to be as logical as you claiming that events at PyS and CAP aren't 'part of the stadium'.

Again, what events do the CAP run ?

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

I hope Phil sees this, he thinks there is nothing up here.

You seem to be of the opinion that if you keep writing a lie often enough then others might be fooled beyond thinking that you're just lying.

It's an odd tactic, reliant on self delusion.

Did you find that planning permission link, yet?

You have said there is nothing up here to support a region.

LordDowlais wrote:

Firstly the Wern cannot hold a wedding, Merthyr RFC can,the Arms park cannot hold a wedding, the Athletic Club can, although what point that is I do not know, as it is you who started this nonsense.

Secondly, you asked me to name you a world wide multinational company who is willing to put money into a rugby team, I answered you, so whats the problem ?

Mate, you do seem confused. The Athletic Club doesn't run the stadium, Cardiff Blues do under the terms of the lease. The facility owned by Cardiff Athletic Club (the ground) is leased to Cardiff Blues ltd and they run the events using the facilities. It's quite simple. Why are you struggling with this?

There's no problem with a multinational company spending money on kids rugby. I do struggle to expand that logic to them suddenly being willing to spend tens of thousands on a mythical rugby team, however.

LordDowlais wrote:
You have said there is nothing up here to support a region.

And you confirmed that when you noted that Sir Stanley would have to write the cheques himself.

Can you remember doing that?

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
You were comparing PYS, and other stadiums, so please do move your goal posts, you are trying to convince me on a technicality, the Athletic club and the Arms park are two different venues, they are just next door to each other.

If you had said the club house before hand I would have inclined to agree with you, even though it is a tiny old poke of a club, but you were referring to stadiums and what they could offer all year around.

No, the Arms Park and Athletic Club are the same venue.

The Clubhouse is part of the stadium. It generates income on non-match days. You can even drop by for a coffee or a pint right now, if you wanted to.

So why are you mentioning goal posts?

Come on Phil, you know what you've done here, just let it go. By that reckoning, Merthyr already have a better facility in place than Cardiff and Llanelli, as there clubhouse is modern, bigger, and in Llanelli's case the Merthyr clubhouse has a much bigger customer base. 

You were banging on about stadiums, and how they can be used all year around. You did not mention clubhouses, clubhouses are not part of the stadium, you know it, I know it, and so does everybody else.

You were getting at corperate events, concerts ect. Not how many weddings you can cram into your clubhouse during the off season. Every rugby club in Wales has one of those.

Conflating a population with a consumer base has to be the core fallacy in 'regional' rugby

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

I hope Phil sees this, he thinks there is nothing up here.

You seem to be of the opinion that if you keep writing a lie often enough then others might be fooled beyond thinking that you're just lying.

It's an odd tactic, reliant on self delusion.

Did you find that planning permission link, yet?

You have said there is nothing up here to support a region.

There may well now be another pro sporting offer that kills any chance of it happening off forever

PhilBB wrote:Mate, you do seem confused. The Athletic Club doesn't run the stadium, Cardiff Blues do under the terms of the lease. The facility owned by Cardiff Athletic Club (the ground) is leased to Cardiff Blues ltd and they run the events using the facilities. It's quite simple. Why are you struggling with this?

Phil there is NO confusion from me, just side stepping from you. You made a comment earlier about a STADIUM hosting events ALL YEAR AROUND. Not a clubhouse, a stadium, like PYS, they put pop concerts on, they do corporate events, they have all the facilities to do this in their nice new place. 

When I pointed out that the CAP does not of any of these things, you started banging on about clubhouses and how they make money all year around as part of the stadium, that is not the case, a clubhouse, however close to the stadium as not part of the stadium, you do not have to buy a ticket that allows you into it, like you do a stadium.

It was YOU who was referring what PYS has to offer all year around, not me, the CAP does not have all the singing and dancing stuff that PYS has, so that proves to me you do not really need it.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
You have said there is nothing up here to support a region.

And you confirmed that when you noted that Sir Stanley would have to write the cheques himself.

Can you remember doing that?

He may have to, like his brother does for Cardiff Blues.

LordDowlais wrote:
Phil there is NO confusion from me, just side stepping from you. You made a comment earlier about a STADIUM hosting events ALL YEAR AROUND. Not a clubhouse, a stadium, like PYS, they put pop concerts on, they do corporate events, they have all the facilities to do this in their nice new place. 

When I pointed out that the CAP does not of any of these things, you started banging on about clubhouses and how they make money all year around as part of the stadium, that is not the case, a clubhouse, however close to the stadium as not part of the stadium, you do not have to buy a ticket that allows you into it, like you do a stadium.

It was YOU who was referring what PYS has to offer all year around, not me, the CAP does not have all the singing and dancing stuff that PYS has, so that proves to me you do not really need it.

You don't have to buy a ticket to enter an exhibition at PyS on a non-match day. You don't have to buy a ticket to enter CAP on a non-match day. You do have to buy a ticket to enter the clubhouse on a math day at CAP.

I've just provided you with links to prove that CAP has similar to PyS. You've tried to claim that the clubhouse at CAP isn't part of CAP.

Have a wee think about that for a minute.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
You have said there is nothing up here to support a region.

And you confirmed that when you noted that Sir Stanley would have to write the cheques himself.

Can you remember doing that?

He may have to, like his brother does for Cardiff Blues.

When was the last time his brother did that at Cardiff?

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
You have said there is nothing up here to support a region.

And you confirmed that when you noted that Sir Stanley would have to write the cheques himself.

Can you remember doing that?

He may have to, like his brother does for Cardiff Blues.

When was the last time his brother did that at Cardiff?

Where is the money coming from to sign all these new players for next season ?

LordDowlais wrote:
Where is the money coming from to sign all these new players for next season ?

That didn't answer my question, unsurprisingly. As we can only judge retrospectively, when the accounts are released, on what money is used, I cannot answer your question but you can answer mine.

Theoretically, I could say that the additional spend comes form money freed up by NDC or additional money from EPCR, but until it's in black and white then all I'd be doing is guessing.

The question I asked of you, however, is easily provable. So, please do answer.

PhilBB wrote:You don't have to buy a ticket to enter an exhibition at PyS on a non-match day. You don't have to buy a ticket to enter CAP on a non-match day. You do have to buy a ticket to enter the clubhouse on a math day at CAP.

I've just provided you with links to prove that CAP has similar to PyS. You've tried to claim that the clubhouse at CAP isn't part of CAP.

Have a wee think about that for a minute

Oh the blitherings of a person talking crap.

So you are telling me then, that there are pop concerts at the CAP ?

So you are telling me that they hold corporate events at the CAP ?

Come on Phil, stop it, by your reckoning, all clubs in Wales have the same facilities. 

The only things you link proves, is that you have a clubhouse that does weddings, like every other clubhouse in Wales does.

PhilBB wrote:The question I asked of you, however, is easily provable. So, please do answer.

He payed for Adam Jones didn't he ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Oh the blitherings of a person talking crap.

So you are telling me then, that there are pop concerts at the CAP ?

So you are telling me that they hold corporate events at the CAP ?

Come on Phil, stop it, by your reckoning, all clubs in Wales have the same facilities. 

The only things you link proves, is that you have a clubhouse that does weddings, like every other clubhouse in Wales does.

I think that you're the only person mentioning pop concerts. My point was about 350 day a year income. I pointed out to you how CAP earns that.

I don't think that all clubs in Wales have a city centre location or can host this: http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/85491

And, yes, I'm telling you that corporate events are held at CAP. It also has a pitch that makes money all year round.

At least we've moved away from your illogical stance of income at CAP not belonging to Cardiff Blues or that the clubhouse at CAP isn't part of the Stadium, so we're making some progress.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:The question I asked of you, however, is easily provable. So, please do answer.

He payed for Adam Jones didn't he ?

Did he? I've not seen that noted anywhere. Are you claiming that Jones wasn't paid by the Club, in that case?

GavinDragon wrote:

Steffan wrote:I quite like Cardiff rugby club although the beer is crap and bar staff's ability to serve people in a quick "matchday" fashion is pretty non-existent even when it was only a bunch of Ponty supporters on the day after boxing day match. Plus they hid all the champagne and prawn sandwiches from us. We are not sophisticated enough to appreciate such fine food and alcohol anyway I guess

You should see what it is like at RP's new "family zone" (yes I am hellbent on making this a Dragons' thread David!). They have about 3 staff on for the one fixture a year that we manage to sell out!

At least the service was decent at the Cardiff City Stadium. Another Cardiff Rugby fiasco that went well...

PhilBB wrote:And, yes, I'm telling you that corporate events are held at CAP. It also has a pitch that makes money all year round. 

We have one of them at the Wern as well.

PhilBB wrote:And, yes, I'm telling you that corporate events are held at CAP.

And where are these held ? 

Please do not tell me the clubhouse.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:And, yes, I'm telling you that corporate events are held at CAP.

And where are these held ? 

Please do not tell me the clubhouse.

The links have been provided above.

Have you finally comprehended how CAP works and which bits of it are 'in the stadium'?

PhilBB wrote:I don't think that all clubs in Wales have a city centre location or can host this: http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/85491

Yep, once every 4 years, what about the rest of the time ?

Steffan wrote:
At least the service was decent at the Cardiff City Stadium. Another Cardiff Rugby fiasco that went well...

That was about a property deal, nothing to do with the rugby.

LordDowlais wrote:
Yep, once every 4 years, what about the rest of the time ?

Well, 16 years if you want to be accurate.

I think that I've proven the income generation of the stadium adequately enough. Thankfully, plans are afoot to really ramp that up:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/multi-million-pound-redevelopment-cardiff-10577785

I'm sure that Sir Stanley has similar plans for Merthyr.

PhilBB wrote:Have you finally comprehended how CAP works and which bits of it are 'in the stadium'?

FFS Phil, the clubhouse is located next to the stadium, it is not part of it. FFS. I cannot take this anymore, lets just agree to disagree. Please before I lose my sanity.

LordDowlais wrote:

FFS Phil, the clubhouse is located next to the stadium, it is not part of it. FFS. I cannot take this anymore, lets just agree to disagree. Please before I lose my sanity.

If you don't think that the Clubhouse is within the stadium, you must have lost your sanity a long, long time ago.

You know that ramp you go down to get to the Clubhouse, or the Gwyn Nicholls gate at the other entrance, that's the boundary of CAP.

To claim the Clubhouse is not part of CAP is one of the stranger things I've read in a long time.

PhilBB wrote:I'm sure that Sir Stanley has similar plans for Merthyr.

We will have to see won't we ?

FFS we are not out of the championship yet, lets us start ripping the Prem up year on year before we get too far ahead of ourselves. 

A nice new region will do for starters, we can then see how we get on from there.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:I'm sure that Sir Stanley has similar plans for Merthyr.

We will have to see won't we ?

FFS we are not out of the championship yet, lets us start ripping the Prem up year on year before we get too far ahead of ourselves. 

A nice new region will do for starters, we can then see how we get on from there.

Will that be before or after you marry Kanye West?

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

FFS Phil, the clubhouse is located next to the stadium, it is not part of it. FFS. I cannot take this anymore, lets just agree to disagree. Please before I lose my sanity.

If you don't think that the Clubhouse is within the stadium, you must have lost your sanity a long, long time ago.

You know that ramp you go down to get to the Clubhouse, or the Gwyn Nicholls gate at the other entrance, that's the boundary of CAP.

To claim the Clubhouse is not part of CAP is one of the stranger things I've read in a long time.

Look, ok whatever. 

LordDowlais wrote:We are not out of the championship yet, lets us start ripping the Prem up year on year before we get too far ahead of ourselves.

 

Agreed.

LordDowlais wrote:A nice new region will do for starters, we can then see how we get on from there.

Eh?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:We are not out of the championship yet, lets us start ripping the Prem up year on year before we get too far ahead of ourselves.

 

Agreed.

LordDowlais wrote:A nice new region will do for starters, we can then see how we get on from there.

Eh?

LP, that was aimed at the fact, that the WRU are building a hotel next to the PS. Phil has seen that as a Cardiff thing.

I was saying lets just get a region going in a few years 5 or more. Then we can start thinking about hotels.

LordDowlais wrote:
LP, that was aimed at the fact, that the WRU are building a hotel next to the PS. Phil has seen that as a Cardiff thing.

I was saying lets just get a region going in a few years 5 or more. Then we can start thinking about hotels.

Is this act of incoherence deliberate or fuelled by Malbec?

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
LP, that was aimed at the fact, that the WRU are building a hotel next to the PS. Phil has seen that as a Cardiff thing.

I was saying lets just get a region going in a few years 5 or more. Then we can start thinking about hotels.

Is this act of incoherence deliberate or fuelled by Malbec?

Well, come on then, what is Peter Thomas doing to improve things off the pitch ?


edit:- sorry, you do not have to answer that question. I am fed up about arguing with you about Cardiff Blues. I'm done. If ever you are down there, I will by you a pint in the clubhouse outside the stadium.

Did you ever decide who should hold the regions to account and set their SMART targets LD?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Did you ever decide who should hold the regions to account and set their SMART targets LD?

No I never did. 

But seeing as it is up to the WRU to chose who they put forward into any competition then perhaps it should be them.

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Did you ever decide who should hold the regions to account and set their SMART targets LD?

No I never did. 

But seeing as it is up to the WRU to chose who they put forward into any competition then perhaps it should be them.

Good luck them deciding who to put forward into EPRC.

But you have no thoughts on what those targets should be?

I love how Merthyr are now becoming the team to bash after 2015 was all about the evil horrible Ponty

I haven't seen anyone bashing Merthyr.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I haven't seen anyone bashing Merthyr.

Speaking of Ponty bashers...where is the not so lovely Chunky Norwich to?

No 7&1/2 wrote:But you have no thoughts on what those targets should be?

Improving, not just staying at the bottom of the league with no signs of improvement. So if the WRU went to Dragons and said, look you have been the bottom placed region for quite a while now, what are you going to do to improve both on and off the field, and they submit an action plan, if those plans are not met and there are no improvements, then it's ding dong, sorry.

So improvement in league position would be your primary aim? Is that SMART?

No 7&1/2 wrote:So improvement in league position would be your primary aim? Is that SMART?

Well, no I did say on AND off the field improvements. But a better league showing would be a start. I Sky+'ed the Ulster game from Friday night, Dragons played very good rugby, if they kept that up, they would be in the top 6 no problem, but for some reason, they will go down like that, and then next week, will get played off the park like up in Edinburgh. Look, when Dragons turn it on, they are a very good side, but they do not do it often enough.

So improvement in league position and off the field improvements; even harder task. What would your specific aim for the Dragons be then?

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:But you have no thoughts on what those targets should be?

Improving, not just staying at the bottom of the league with no signs of improvement. So if the WRU went to Dragons and said, look you have been the bottom placed region for quite a while now, what are you going to do to improve both on and off the field, and they submit an action plan, if those plans are not met and there are no improvements, then it's ding dong, sorry.

Don't you have to have a replacement lined up for that to happen?