Under 20's world championship - general discussion thread

[blackcanelion]

First topic message reminder :

I'm posting this even though I know there are Irish, English and Scottish threads. My idea is to give a thread that allows for all the games and teams to be discussed (that's not to downplay the other posts which have value in their own right).

To get the ball rolling here are some thoughts on the NZ team and chances in this tournament.

1. I think the NZRFU are starting to take this tournament more seriously. Not having won it in three years means you ask hard questions. I think it's obvious that we been way behind the eight ball in preparation compared to European teams for a while. It looks like they are taking steps in the right direction.

2. The coaching set up looks good. All three coaches are successful ITM cup coaches and have significant mana (i.e. they are all ex All Blacks).

3. The team has had better preparation than in the past. This team has actually played together in a few matches. In the past they've probably come in under prepared (there are no equivalents of the 6 nations age group competitions).

4. The teams pretty useful. There are players that aren't available (e.g. McKenzie and Lenart-Brown playing for the chiefs and I'm assuming national sevens player Ioane (Akira's younger brother).

5. The loss of players to league has obviously impacted this team, but it may be the union is addressing this with the countries first super 15 under 19 squads being set up in Auckland and Wellington. It's hard to say if it will stem the flow  as the NRL generates more TV revenue than either the Top 14 or Premiership. The clubs currently contract 16 professional under 19 squads) so there is a big pull. The Players who likely would have made it, include Asofa Solomona (could have been the superstar of this tournament).

6. It's difficult to determine the chances of this team based on 1 game. All we can say is that they were significantly better than the Scottish side they faced. I understand the Scottish side was understrength and given that this isn't the strongest NZ side we probably wont get a decent idea until after the game against Ireland.

7. It looks to have a side that play to NZ's normal strengths (e.g. fitness, pace and ball skills). The question remains how they cope if/when a team can control, possession, position and the pace of the game (e.g. England or SA). I'm not entirely convinced we adequate in the tight 5. If someone someone controls the set piece, has a good mauling game and can slow down the ruck we will be vulnerable.

All that aside I feel reasonably happy with our chances.

So. How do you feel about your team's progress so far and their chances looking forward.

[Poorfour]

Well done New Zealand. A deserved win.

[aucklandlaurie]

During that second half I somewhat got the feeling that England were playing a game of patience, waiting for the Baby Blacks to make a mistake, meanwhile the BBs were playing a game of patience thinking, England are waiting for us to make a mistake.

[Guest]

Good win, solid performance. England were aggressive, disruptive and organised but lacked a bit of zip. Yes Laurie, that's probably a fair point, finals rugby. Good patience from the Baby Blacks to out-patience England, especially in the dying minute.

[Cyril]

Well done Baby Blacks. Close game, but a deserved win.

Enjoyed the game last night. England had a very good start and, at the initial couple of breakdowns, really seemed to catch NZ cold with a couple of excellent turnovers. Good try too and impressive power and speed by Clark.

The yellow for the NZ 8 was harsh (was it reviewed?) but thought the ref was good, let a fair bit go and trusted his touch judges.

The disallowed England try was probably (just) offside.

If that popped pass at the death had been intercepted and scored by England (after the flamboyant catch!) it would probably have been a bit harsh on NZ. Their defence was excellent and, after the initial 20 minutes, didn't give up much in the scrum or let the England maul get going. Neither side really cut loose but, as said above, it was finals rugby.

The Saints 6 (forget his name) looks like an excellent prospect.

[HammerofThunor]

Ludlum? Or something like that.
The yellow from the NZ 8 was ridiculous. I wouldn't have even given a penalty. He was clearly pulling out of the tackle, had his arms there and the ball had only just gone. That's what happens when you run into a guy that big.

[aucklandlaurie]

Its a bit crazy when the Welsh linesman reckons that a player didnt use arms in the tackle, when all you can see in the tackle is arms, anyway Im sure Akira Ioane is not too upset about it, as he knows that he will go a lot further in International rugby than the linesman ever will.

[Cyril]

Ludlum? Or something like that.

Aye, that's the one

[GunsGerms]

I think England should have won. They kinda threw it away. They declined a couple of kicks at goal early on. I think that they should have tried to build on the scoreboard at bit more. They were much stronger than NZ at the breakdown IMO.

[Poorfour]

I think England should have won. They kinda threw it away. They declined a couple of kicks at goal early on. I think that they should have tried to build on the scoreboard at bit more. They were much stronger than NZ at the breakdown IMO.

I thought they were up at the breakdown in the first half and didn't capitalise on it as much as they should, but NZ had at least parity and possibly an edge in the second. Fitness - or perhaps full concentration under pressure - not quite there yet, clearly. A few more points would have made quite a difference in the closing stages, so you're probably right that they should have taken the kicks on offer.

It was a good performance by both sides, and NZ didn't make the mistakes that England capitalised on to beat South Africa. Considering they lost two strong backs before the tournament and had to regroup after losing their flyhalf midway through, it's not surprising the attack ultimately ran out of steam.

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