French rugby

Hello, this is my first post so please be kind...

I'm curious about French rugby, but am hardly an expert on it.

I've been reading a lot lately regarding Toulons, Pau's, Montpellier's signings and ambitions etc, and have been watching quite a lot of French and European rugby and the thing that strikes me most is why does the FFR not impose restrictions on non French nationals playing?

If they do how do they try to impose these restrictions?

Who is the power in French rugby?

Where are all these south sea island players in every french club coming from?

Thanks for your feedback

Fanster wrote:Hello, this is my first post so please be kind...

I'm curious about French rugby, but am hardly an expert on it.

I've been reading a lot lately regarding Toulons, Pau's, Montpellier's signings and ambitions etc, and have been watching quite a lot of French and European rugby and the thing that strikes me most is why does the FFR not impose restrictions on non French nationals playing?

If they do how do they try to impose these restrictions?

Who is the power in French rugby?

Where are all these south sea island players in every french club coming from?

Thanks for your feedback

It's hardly your first post, since it's your 72nd actually...

The short answer to your questions is possibly:

a) They do.
b) Through the JIFF programme
c) At this point, the LNR, and a small number of the T14 clubs wield a lot of power.
d) Which players are you referring to?

Fanster wrote:Hello, this is my first post so please be kind...

I'm curious about French rugby, but am hardly an expert on it.

I've been reading a lot lately regarding Toulons, Pau's, Montpellier's signings and ambitions etc, and have been watching quite a lot of French and European rugby and the thing that strikes me most is why does the FFR not impose restrictions on non French nationals playing?

If they do how do they try to impose these restrictions?

Who is the power in French rugby?

Where are all these south sea island players in every french club coming from?

Thanks for your feedback

Why? Because of the EU laws. You can't discriminate a player on his nationality. And this law concern european players and player from a country which signed the cotonou agreement. In rugby it's add the south african and pacific players.
To help our national teams we created the JIFF quota. Each club must have a number of player coming from the french academies.
It was a good idea, but now our clubs buy youngster players in other countries to make them eligible in the JIFF players. For exemple Clermont created an academy in Fiji to import players.
But the Jiff quota will probably be removed by the EU's judge. A similar law as our JIFF rule was removed in Spanish basket. So in less than 2 years our clubs will win against our Union, and they will have no limit in foreigners players.

Contrary to England, our Union is poor and our clubs are rich. So they have more influence on our rugby, than any clubs can have in other countries. The next battle will be the release of players to play the international games. Toulon's owner has filed a complain in courts against World Rugby (ex IRB), to have a financial compensation, and many others are now making contract with 2 different salaries. A big one if the player stop playing for his country, and a small one if he continues. More and more players from poor countries like Census Johnston chosed the money.

It appears that the 60% quota of French qualified players is having some effect. It is the reason sited by Toulon for not renewing David Smith's contract.
its not all doom and gloom if you look at the two T14 finalists this season: Stade Francais and Clermont, both have around half their team as French qualified. With the quality of the T14 and Pro deux there are plenty of slots available for French players to develop. Yes they often have to move clubs but if they are good enough they  will eventually get game time to prove their worth.
Thinking of Jonathan  Wisniewski, who had to move from Racing where he had become a bit part player and has really thrived at Grenoble, forming a great half back partnership with Charl McLeod.

Fanster wrote:Hello, this is my first post so please be kind...

I'm curious about French rugby, but am hardly an expert on it.

I've been reading a lot lately regarding Toulons, Pau's, Montpellier's signings and ambitions etc, and have been watching quite a lot of French and European rugby and the thing that strikes me most is why does the FFR not impose restrictions on non French nationals playing?

If they do how do they try to impose these restrictions?

Who is the power in French rugby?

Where are all these south sea island players in every french club coming from?

Thanks for your feedback

Of course it is....

Pot,

I meant post of thread, which it was, please don't be so petty.

Jimpy

Been called it before, as are 3/4 other posters currently, it's a poor example of not having anything to say, try harder.

Sensiball, Shuren34,

So would you say that French clubs power is going to directly effect international rugby? Why does Boudjellel feel the need to see the world crumble to acheive success?

Fanster wrote:Pot,

I meant post of thread, which it was, please don't be so petty.

Jimpy

Been called it before, as are 3/4 other posters currently, it's a poor example of not having anything to say, try harder.

Sensiball, Shuren34,

So would you say that French clubs power is going to directly effect international rugby? Why does Boudjellel feel the need to see the world crumble to acheive success?

Perhaps you might 'try harder' not to present double negatives?

Jimpy - enough.

Fanster wrote: Why does Boudjellel feel the need to see the world crumble to acheive success?

He's doing what's best for his business. He is president of Toulon. He is not president of FFR. If FFR has problems then it's not Boulledjals fault.

I'm staggered at the amount of people who blame Toulon for the ills of rugby, when they should be revered around the globe as the massive success story they are.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote: Why does Boudjellel feel the need to see the world crumble to acheive success?

He's doing what's best for his business. He is president of Toulon. He is not president of FFR. If FFR has problems then it's not Boulledjals fault.

I'm staggered at the amount of people who blame Toulon for the ills of rugby, when they should be revered around the globe as the massive success story they are.

Indeed, Toulon are mainly comprised of marquee players but it hasn't been to the determent of French or world rugby. In theory, all French teams are able to compete on the same level, but it just so happens that Boulledjal can finance a 'dream team'. The disparity between the different RFUs rulings on salary caps is the real villain here, Toulon are not constrained by a cap, so why should they be vilified for taking advantage of it?

I believe Toulouse have a very similar ( or slightly higher ?) player budget than Toulon, yet they haven't been as successful over recent years, so its not all down to money.
Ironic that Noves has been coming under pressure for Toulouse underperforming and he is now given the head coaching job for France!

Jimpy wrote:Toulon are not constrained by a cap?

Eh?

Toulon becoming a home for ageing rugby stars is not bad for world rugby IMO.

With these players topping up their bank accounts with a nice pay day in the south of France it allows other players opportunities.

It's bad for French rugby that Toulon has a very poor academy and poor record at nurturing youngsters in my opinion.

It's bad for French rugby that only 4/15 of the starters in the ERCC final for Toulon were French, again in my opinion.

Toulon are only one team in the Top 14 though.

beshocked wrote: Toulon has a very poor academy

Any evidence of this? Bearing in mind the academy play offs last week?

beshocked wrote:Toulon becoming a home for ageing rugby stars is not bad for world rugby IMO.

With these players topping up their bank accounts with a nice pay day in the south of France it allows other players opportunities.

It's bad for French rugby that Toulon has a very poor academy and poor record at nurturing youngsters in my opinion.

It's bad for French rugby that only 4/15 of the starters in the ERCC final for Toulon were French, again in my opinion.

Toulon are only one team in the Top 14 though.

And yet, which club supporter in the NH wouldn't want their line-up? Aging they might be (actually, I don't think that's entirely true), but it hasn't stifled their growing momentum and success.

You contradict yourself when you say that it's bad for French rugby that only 4/15 of the starters in the ERCC final for Toulon were French, and then that Toulon are only one team in the top 14. As has been said already, other French teams are winning the Top 14 and providing the bulk of the international side, so I don't really see a problem.

Jimpy wrote:Toulon are not constrained by a cap?

Eh?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:Toulon are not constrained by a cap?

Eh?

What's the matter? Got a stutter?

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:Toulon becoming a home for ageing rugby stars is not bad for world rugby IMO.

With these players topping up their bank accounts with a nice pay day in the south of France it allows other players opportunities.

It's bad for French rugby that Toulon has a very poor academy and poor record at nurturing youngsters in my opinion.

It's bad for French rugby that only 4/15 of the starters in the ERCC final for Toulon were French, again in my opinion.

Toulon are only one team in the Top 14 though.

And yet, which club supporter in the NH wouldn't want their line-up? Aging they might be (actually, I don't think that's entirely true), but it hasn't stifled their growing momentum and success.

You contradict yourself when you say that it's bad for French rugby that only 4/15 of the starters in the ERCC final for Toulon were French, and then that Toulon are only one team in the top 14. As has been said already, other French teams are winning the Top 14 and providing the bulk of the international side, so I don't really see a problem.

I wouldn't be happy with their line-up. I wouldn't be happy at all. I am very happy with the 4 NIQ's in Ulster, and would always want us to fill those 4 NIQ slots with the best possible, but I would never want the restriction of imports lifted and IQ players missing out on representing their province.

Jimpy wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:Toulon are not constrained by a cap?

Eh?

What's he matter? Got a stutter?

Why are Toulon not constrained by a cap?

Chunky Norwich how many Toulon academy players started in the ERCC final?

Jimpy great line up sure but I like seeing a Saracens pack that is young and I will expect will only get better.

5 of the pack who started in the AP final - under 25 and 3 from the Saracens academy.

It's better for the national side certainly too.

As for contradicting myself I was talking about the two sides of the coin - Toulon are bad for french rugby but on the other hand as long as others don't follow suit too much....

beshocked wrote:Chunky Norwich how many Toulon academy players started in the ERCC final?

No idea. Toulon's academy was only upgraded about 3 seasons ago. So in 2 or 3 seasons you'll start to see them reaping the benefits.

There ARE foreign import restrictions in French rugby.

Munchkin wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:Toulon becoming a home for ageing rugby stars is not bad for world rugby IMO.

With these players topping up their bank accounts with a nice pay day in the south of France it allows other players opportunities.

It's bad for French rugby that Toulon has a very poor academy and poor record at nurturing youngsters in my opinion.

It's bad for French rugby that only 4/15 of the starters in the ERCC final for Toulon were French, again in my opinion.

Toulon are only one team in the Top 14 though.

And yet, which club supporter in the NH wouldn't want their line-up? Aging they might be (actually, I don't think that's entirely true), but it hasn't stifled their growing momentum and success.

You contradict yourself when you say that it's bad for French rugby that only 4/15 of the starters in the ERCC final for Toulon were French, and then that Toulon are only one team in the top 14. As has been said already, other French teams are winning the Top 14 and providing the bulk of the international side, so I don't really see a problem.

I wouldn't be happy with their line-up. I wouldn't be happy at all. I am very happy with the 4 NIQ's in Ulster, and would always want us to fill those 4 NIQ slots with the best possible, but I would never want the restriction of imports lifted and IQ players missing out on representing their province.

You're talking from a purely subjective point of view though. Look at the Toulon team, it is a hugely talented and experienced line - up. We're not talking about 'your' team here, I was speaking in a hypothetical, or holistic way (if you like). If you take your own personal opinion on imports and IQ players out of the equation (they were not meant to be included in the first place) then I think most would agree, that despite apparently being ready for zimmer frames, they're pretty handy.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:Toulon are not constrained by a cap?

Eh?

What's he matter? Got a stutter?

Why are Toulon not constrained by a cap?

Alright they are - I was being obtuse - but is being constrained by a 10 million Euro salary cap really a cap at all? Maybe - but when you consider Toulon spend 8.55 million Euro, it makes 10 million look like something of a joke doesn't it.

Chunky Norwich I am talking about now - not in a few seasons.

Jimpy very good players but only 4/15 being Frenchman isn't great. Even as a Saracens fan I want to see a reduction in the foreigners at the club. I like to see youngsters getting more opportunities.

Some world class talent at your club is great sure but it's about balance. In my opinion Toulon have gone far too in the wrong direction.

Let's put it this way - would you rather Tigers win the AP with 15 Englishmen from the Tigers academy or would you rather win with 15 imports? Does it matter?

Jimpy wrote:

Alright they are - I was being obtuse - but is being constrained by a 10 million Euro salary cap really a cap at all? Maybe - but when you consider Toulon spend 8.55 million Euro, it makes 10 million look like something of a joke doesn't it.

No, it doesn't. Because French rugby has massive commercial deals. Because it is a far more successful product than any other league on the planet. Their salary cap is right for them as they have the spending power to match. Just because other products are inferior doesn't mean French rugby hould be the ones to take their foot off the pedal and allow others to catch up.

This "it's nto fair" attitude is just churlish. We need to embrace it and follow the model not wallow in pity and moan about it.

beshocked wrote:Chunky Norwich I am talking about now - not in a few seasons.

As I said, no idea. There's no law that says you have to have x amount of players from your own academy playing, so it' not really relevant.

It's a very tasty line-up, Jimpy, but it isn't a line-up I can enthuse about because it is filled with imports and not something I would want for Ulster. Even if we could afford it, and even if it means missing out on silverware. I would rather take the long route of investing in grass roots rugby, improving the academies, and sifting out and developing our own talented players.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Alright they are - I was being obtuse - but is being constrained by a 10 million Euro salary cap really a cap at all? Maybe - but when you consider Toulon spend 8.55 million Euro, it makes 10 million look like something of a joke doesn't it.

No, it doesn't. Because French rugby has massive commercial deals. Because it is a far more successful product than any other league on the planet. Their salary cap is right for them as they have the spending power to match. Just because other products are inferior doesn't mean French rugby hould be the ones to take their foot off the pedal and allow others to catch up.

This "it's nto fair" attitude is just churlish. We need to embrace it and follow the model not wallow in pity and moan about it.

At what point have I said the French salary cap 'isn't fair'?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Alright they are - I was being obtuse - but is being constrained by a 10 million Euro salary cap really a cap at all? Maybe - but when you consider Toulon spend 8.55 million Euro, it makes 10 million look like something of a joke doesn't it.

No, it doesn't. Because French rugby has massive commercial deals. Because it is a far more successful product than any other league on the planet. Their salary cap is right for them as they have the spending power to match. Just because other products are inferior doesn't mean French rugby hould be the ones to take their foot off the pedal and allow others to catch up.

This "it's nto fair" attitude is just churlish. We need to embrace it and follow the model not wallow in pity and moan about it.

The English shouldn't be embracing it as you say there isn't the money to do so. The cap is there at a reasonable level to allow all clubs the chance with good coaching etc to compete on a equal(ish) footing, not to benefit the richest.

beshocked wrote:Chunky Norwich I am talking about now - not in a few seasons.

Jimpy very good players but only 4/15 being Frenchman isn't great. Even as a Saracens fan I want to see a reduction in the foreigners at the club. I like to see youngsters getting more opportunities.

Some world class talent at your club is great sure but it's about balance. In my opinion Toulon have gone far too in the wrong direction.

Let's put it this way - would you rather Tigers win the AP with 15 Englishmen from the Tigers academy or would you rather win with 15 imports?  Does it matter?

You can't polarize such opinion - it isn't clear cut. But, it depends on how you rate success? If you're 'club centric' then you wouldn't mind how many foreign players were in your team would you - if you were 'country centric', it would matter a lot.

Personally, I'd like a balance.

Jimpy wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Alright they are - I was being obtuse - but is being constrained by a 10 million Euro salary cap really a cap at all? Maybe - but when you consider Toulon spend 8.55 million Euro, it makes 10 million look like something of a joke doesn't it.

No, it doesn't. Because French rugby has massive commercial deals. Because it is a far more successful product than any other league on the planet. Their salary cap is right for them as they have the spending power to match. Just because other products are inferior doesn't mean French rugby hould be the ones to take their foot off the pedal and allow others to catch up.

This "it's nto fair" attitude is just churlish. We need to embrace it and follow the model not wallow in pity and moan about it.

At what point have I said the French salary cap 'isn't fair'?

You just called it "a joke".

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Alright they are - I was being obtuse - but is being constrained by a 10 million Euro salary cap really a cap at all? Maybe - but when you consider Toulon spend 8.55 million Euro, it makes 10 million look like something of a joke doesn't it.

No, it doesn't. Because French rugby has massive commercial deals. Because it is a far more successful product than any other league on the planet. Their salary cap is right for them as they have the spending power to match. Just because other products are inferior doesn't mean French rugby hould be the ones to take their foot off the pedal and allow others to catch up.

This "it's nto fair" attitude is just churlish. We need to embrace it and follow the model not wallow in pity and moan about it.

At what point have I said the French salary cap 'isn't fair'?

You just called it "a joke".

I said it was a joke because with a 10 million cap, it effectively means a team isn't really constrained by what they can spend (Toulon are living proof). But, although 'joke' was probably the wrong word to use, at no point have I said it was unfair to other countries. In fact, I effectively said earlier, 'good luck to them'.

Jimpy wrote:

I said it was a joke because with a 10 million cap, it effectively means a team isn't really constrained by what they can spend (Toulon are living proof). But, although 'joke' was probably the wrong word to use, at no point have I said it was unfair to other countries. In fact, I effectively said earlier, 'good luck to them'.

Then I have absolutely no idea what your point is.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

I said it was a joke because with a 10 million cap, it effectively means a team isn't really constrained by what they can spend (Toulon are living proof). But, although 'joke' was probably the wrong word to use, at no point have I said it was unfair to other countries. In fact, I effectively said earlier, 'good luck to them'.

Then I have absolutely no idea what your point is.

That's funny, I was about to say the same thing.

Jimpy wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

I said it was a joke because with a 10 million cap, it effectively means a team isn't really constrained by what they can spend (Toulon are living proof). But, although 'joke' was probably the wrong word to use, at no point have I said it was unfair to other countries. In fact, I effectively said earlier, 'good luck to them'.

Then I have absolutely no idea what your point is.

That's funny, I was about to say the same thing.

Well my point is that Toulon are constrained by a salary cap. Something which you reuted earlier.

Although next year they will be very close to it I understand.

Toulon are not really constrained by the cap.

The cap is only for direct payments from club to player for playing. Additional payments can be made over and beyond that. It is believed that only 50% of Dan Carter's income from Racing qualifies under the cap. Mourad is quite open that Toulon players receive additional payments from the club, or their sponsors, that do not fall under the cap governance.

I have no issues with that, those are the rules they have in place for their competition. that they are strict on clubs running up repeat debts is what makes this possible.

LondonTiger wrote:

The cap is only for direct payments from club to player for playing. Additional payments can be made over and beyond that. .

This happens in Ireland too.

But Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Don't tell anyone.

The Provinces don't have a cap as such. The restrictions on NIQ players effectively work as a cap though.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

I said it was a joke because with a 10 million cap, it effectively means a team isn't really constrained by what they can spend (Toulon are living proof). But, although 'joke' was probably the wrong word to use, at no point have I said it was unfair to other countries. In fact, I effectively said earlier, 'good luck to them'.

Then I have absolutely no idea what your point is.

That's funny, I was about to say the same thing.

Well my point is that Toulon are constrained by a salary cap. Something which you reuted earlier.

Although next year they will be very close to it I understand.

Ah... well my point was, I think, that having a 10 million Euro cap you might as well not have one at all because as has already been pointed out, the cap only relates to direct payments between club and player. The cap is rigorously enforced in France (2M Euro fine I think) - its a pity they can't be so rigorous in this country....

But anyway, I never said it wasn't fair - they're the rules we have.

Munchkin wrote:I wouldn't be happy with their line-up. I wouldn't be happy at all. I am very happy with the 4 NIQ's in Ulster, and would always want us to fill those 4 NIQ slots with the best possible, but I would never want the restriction of imports lifted and IQ players missing out on representing their province.

Not really on topic but, but do you feel the same way about IQ players without Ulster ties? If the team was filled with 100% Munsterman would that feel the same? Just curious. Because in England there is significant movement of players, even early on in the their academy career. The club isn't necessary the 'home' team for them even if they were in the academy. Especially hard for those that don't really have a specific location. The locally lads done good are generally fan favourites (Lawes, Diggin, Deacon, Slater, etc)

Munchkin wrote:The Provinces don't have a cap as such. The restrictions on NIQ players effectively work as a cap though.

Imagine having those NQ restrictions and a cap of £3.5m too. That's what the Welsh have had.

Jimpy wrote:

Ah... well my point was, I think, that having a 10 million Euro cap you might as well not have one at all because as has already been pointed out, the cap only relates to direct payments between club and player. The cap is rigorously enforced in France (2M Euro fine I think) - its a pity they can't be so rigorous in this country....

But anyway, I never said it wasn't fair - they're the rules we have.

There is enough misconception and false rage pointed towards the likes of Toulon as it is. Imagine if they abolished their salary cap too. I know what you mean, they are only allowed to spend a certain percentage of their budget. But Good on them for getting their budgets so high in the 1st place. They are schooling the rest of European rugby on how to run pro teams.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Ah... well my point was, I think, that having a 10 million Euro cap you might as well not have one at all because as has already been pointed out, the cap only relates to direct payments between club and player. The cap is rigorously enforced in France (2M Euro fine I think) - its a pity they can't be so rigorous in this country....

But anyway, I never said it wasn't fair - they're the rules we have.

There is enough misconception and false rage pointed towards the likes of Toulon as it is. Imagine if they abolished their salary cap too. I know what you mean, they are only allowed to spend a certain percentage of their budget. But Good on them for getting their budgets so high in the 1st place. They are schooling the rest of European rugby on how to run pro teams.

I also think that there is a lot of faux anger directed at them, when in reality, those people are probably just jealous if they were honest with themselves.

Jimpy wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Ah... well my point was, I think, that having a 10 million Euro cap you might as well not have one at all because as has already been pointed out, the cap only relates to direct payments between club and player. The cap is rigorously enforced in France (2M Euro fine I think) - its a pity they can't be so rigorous in this country....

But anyway, I never said it wasn't fair - they're the rules we have.

There is enough misconception and false rage pointed towards the likes of Toulon as it is. Imagine if they abolished their salary cap too. I know what you mean, they are only allowed to spend a certain percentage of their budget. But Good on them for getting their budgets so high in the 1st place. They are schooling the rest of European rugby on how to run pro teams.

I also think that there is a lot of faux anger directed at them, when in reality, those people are probably just jealous if they were honest with themselves.

France are doing quite well in the u20 world cup. Which kind of pours water on the whole "This isn't good for the future of French test rugby" thing.

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:Chunky Norwich I am talking about now - not in a few seasons.

Jimpy very good players but only 4/15 being Frenchman isn't great. Even as a Saracens fan I want to see a reduction in the foreigners at the club. I like to see youngsters getting more opportunities.

Some world class talent at your club is great sure but it's about balance. In my opinion Toulon have gone far too in the wrong direction.

Let's put it this way - would you rather Tigers win the AP with 15 Englishmen from the Tigers academy or would you rather win with 15 imports?  Does it matter?

You can't polarize such opinion - it isn't clear cut. But, it depends on how you rate success? If you're 'club centric' then you wouldn't mind how many foreign players were in your team would you - if you were 'country centric', it would matter a lot.

Personally, I'd like a balance.

Okay would you be happy with the Toulon situation if it was Tigers? Is the Toulon approach something that should be imitated in your opinion?

Personally I don't think it should be.

Tigers own policy has moved to more foreigners is this something you are pleased to see?

Toulon are only one club but I am sure others like Montpellier and Racing Metro see the success Toulon have had and want a slice of the action too..

beshocked wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:Chunky Norwich I am talking about now - not in a few seasons.

Jimpy very good players but only 4/15 being Frenchman isn't great. Even as a Saracens fan I want to see a reduction in the foreigners at the club. I like to see youngsters getting more opportunities.

Some world class talent at your club is great sure but it's about balance. In my opinion Toulon have gone far too in the wrong direction.

Let's put it this way - would you rather Tigers win the AP with 15 Englishmen from the Tigers academy or would you rather win with 15 imports?  Does it matter?

You can't polarize such opinion - it isn't clear cut. But, it depends on how you rate success? If you're 'club centric' then you wouldn't mind how many foreign players were in your team would you - if you were 'country centric', it would matter a lot.

Personally, I'd like a balance.

Okay would you be happy with the Toulon situation if it was Tigers?  Is the Toulon approach something that should be imitated in your opinion?

Personally I don't think it should be.

Tigers own policy has moved to more foreigners is this something you are pleased to see?

Toulon are only one club but I am sure others like Montpellier and Racing Metro see the success Toulon have had and want a slice of the action too..

As I've already said, I would prefer a balance, but as a 'club centric' supporter, the amount of foreigners in the team doesn't really bother me, no.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Munchkin wrote:I wouldn't be happy with their line-up. I wouldn't be happy at all. I am very happy with the 4 NIQ's in Ulster, and would always want us to fill those 4 NIQ slots with the best possible, but I would never want the restriction of imports lifted and IQ players missing out on representing their province.

Not really on topic but, but do you feel the same way about IQ players without Ulster ties? If the team was filled with 100% Munsterman would that feel the same? Just curious. Because in England there is significant movement of players, even early on in the their academy career.  The club isn't necessary the 'home' team for them even if they were in the academy. Especially hard for those that don't really have a specific location. The locally lads done good are generally fan favourites (Lawes, Diggin, Deacon, Slater, etc)

It's a good question, Hammer, and one that I've thought about. I have a feeling that there will be more player movement between the Provinces than has been seen. I think the IRFU will ensure this. As much as I would like to see home grown Ulster men represent Ulster, I do understand that if we have a weakness, say in the backrow, and no Ulster players at the level required to fill that slot, then next to an Ulster player filling that slot I would like to see a player from one of the other Provinces. I think this is because I'm an Ireland supporter as well as an Ulster supporter. Encouraging talent to rise up through the Academies, and spreading that potential through the 4 Provinces, when needed, benefits all.
Players themselves would prefer to play in the Province in which they were born, but it isn't always possible, and so it's for their benefit, the benefit of the Province they are moved to, and the benefit of Ireland that they do so.

Then you have guys like Geordan Murphy. Foreigner but most Tigers fans would probably consider him as much of a Tiger as Deacon was. I think that's what people want don't they? A team that's theirs. One they created or molded. One made of players they've seen grow and develop. Yes, with the odd superstar thrown in. Guys like Mauger at Tigers, Nick Evans at Quins. The way Lowe is getting at Bath and Braid at Sale. Possibly Peinaar at Ulster and Goppath at Leinster ()

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Ah... well my point was, I think, that having a 10 million Euro cap you might as well not have one at all because as has already been pointed out, the cap only relates to direct payments between club and player. The cap is rigorously enforced in France (2M Euro fine I think) - its a pity they can't be so rigorous in this country....

But anyway, I never said it wasn't fair - they're the rules we have.

There is enough misconception and false rage pointed towards the likes of Toulon as it is. Imagine if they abolished their salary cap too. I know what you mean, they are only allowed to spend a certain percentage of their budget. But Good on them for getting their budgets so high in the 1st place. They are schooling the rest of European rugby on how to run pro teams.

I also think that there is a lot of faux anger directed at them, when in reality, those people are probably just jealous if they were honest with themselves.

France are doing quite well in the u20 world cup. Which kind of pours water on the whole "This isn't good for the future of French test rugby" thing.

Depends if they make it through to the clubs' first teams doesn't it and are developed well from here on in.

HammerofThunor wrote:Then you have guys like Geordan Murphy. Foreigner but most Tigers fans would probably consider him as much of a Tiger as Deacon was. I think that's what people want don't they? A team that's theirs. One they created or molded. One made of players they've seen grow and develop. Yes, with the odd superstar thrown in. Guys like Mauger at Tigers, Nick Evans at Quins. The way Lowe is getting at Bath and Braid at Sale. Possibly Peinaar at Ulster and Goppath at Leinster ()

Absolutely. Players like Muller and Pienaar are very much ingrained into the Ulster rugby psyche. Not all NIQ's will be. Afoa wasn't for example. They have in a sense been adopted as Ulster men by Ulster supporters. They are by us

Not that we want to see more NIQ's coming in than we currently do though. As I said, not all imports like Pienaar and Muller will find their way into Ulster hearts, and it is about more than talent. They themselves have to bleed Ulster.