Lee Westwood is a bottler and will never win a biggy

Well on Sunday at Wentworth this was further underlined. The good thing is he is no longer at number one and hopefully for the good of Golf he will not return there unless (and this is an unlikely event) he wins either a Major or a WGC event.

I cannot believe some people think that Westwood actually deserved being at number one! How can a player who is known for buckling under pressure and a player who hasn’t won a Golf tournament that is considered a big event deserve to be number one????

Westwood's bottle job on Sunday was amazing. Its ok to play well and putt the birdies when the pressure if off but as soon as the pressure was on he folded. At 16 he three putted on the green. At 17 he couldn’t get up and down in two from the back of the hole and at 18 he misses a four footer which had no movement on it. Then at the extra hole, Donald plays a superb 3rd shot and Westwood Poopie himself and plays it into the water. It was laughable and cringe worthy at the same time and Ken Brown thought it was unlucky!!! Ken, it was a bad shot. He bottled it.

It’s not the first time Westwood has bottled a big event when leading. Last year he threw away the Masters as soon as Mickleson applied the pressure and in 2008 he should of won the US Open but again messed up as soon as Tiger and Rocco put some pressure on.

In my opinion Luke Donald deserves to be number one even though he hasn’t yet won a major. He has won a WGC event and a Major title is imminent. I think he will definatley win one of the remaining three majors this year.

Should have, not should of.

SmitherJones, you are a muppet. If you have nothing better to do than comment on my grammer instead of replying to the post then go away.

This isnt a English lesson you sad sad man.

Hey ho, here we go. 3 hours after BBC closes and we get our first user of the "bottler" tag.

Robbo - I suggest you read around the forum for a while (including site rules and etiquette) before jumping in with both feet.

We don't want to stifle debate here but it would do you some good to judge the tone of debate around here first.

There may be *some* merit in what you are saying but there is zero merit in the way you are saying it - seems like you are trying to stir the pot somewhat and we won't tolerate that for too long.

Enjoy your stay here but please don't try to incite inflammatory threads

Edit: while I've been typing that, I see you are starting to throw insults around already ("grammer" indeed)

Take a warning straight away. Won't be tolerated

Sorry Davie, how am I trying to 'incite inflammatory threads'?

Im making a post and then some twit decides to point out a mistake which is not really relevant to the post.

Also you will see on the old 606, im not the only person who thinks that Westwood is a bottler

You will find that there are more people who think LW *does* deserver to be no.1 than doesn't (though it's academic now anyway as Luke got there)

On that premise alone, it is an inflammatory thread to use words such as bottler (it's only a matter of time before we get "choker" used too)

add to that you've already called someone a muppet, sad and a twit.

Play by the rules and we'll get along just fine. Break (or even bend) the rules and you'll be watched

Westwood 35 Pro Wins
Donald 9 Pro Wins

Donald is deservedly world number 1 but don't tell me Westwood is a bottler, because Tiger beat him at the US Open, or Mickelson beat him at the Masters, or Donald (14 Top 10s out of 15) beat him in the PGA, when he's won 24 more times as a pro than Donald and he's only 5 years older...

Also Westwood won the DWC in 09 at a canter (6 shots) which would have had pretty much the same field as the PGA...

a stellar first contribution to 606 v2, keep it up...

A bottler?

Donald WON IT with a birdie
Westwood got a tad unlucky with excessive spin

Let see how he responds to a reasoned rebuttal before he's hung out to dry...

Baggiesfan_golfer wrote:A bottler?

Donald WON IT with a birdie
Westwood got a tad unlucky with excessive spin

Yes and Donald played the extra hole very well. But my point is that Westwood should of won in regulation play. He finished 5,5,5 when at least one of them should of been a four.

Should ???

There is no should in golf mate

Hey Davie why delete my post? You didnt even answer my two questions?

oh dear, 606 closes and the bottler word appears within moments, Yes what a bottle job coming through the field on last day to tie the lead and losing out to some seriously poor architechture in the design of the green.

Same bottle job that had back to back wins already this year and has far more wins than Donald throughout his career!

I think Donald is the rightful number 1 and one of my faves, but cannot take people calling someone who is far from being a bottler that thing!

Was it the tee shot on 16 that was a really poor iron shot? He dropped the club such was his disgust? And it was a tame effort at the 18th for a bird that would have won the thing... Doesn't make him a bottler though...

Luke threw this tournament away last year with a 7 on 17 and hit a lay up into the trees on 17 this year, lucky to get away with that. Then on 18 hit it onto a bunker.... neither covered themselves in glory over the final few holes.. but Luke edged it.. just. there can only be one winner someone has to loose, this time it was Westy, it doesn't make him a bottler though....

Robbo_wont_be_champ again wrote:Hey Davie why delete my post? You didnt even answer my two questions?

No posts have been deleted. What are you talking about?

Davie wrote:

Robbo_wont_be_champ again wrote:Hey Davie why delete my post? You didnt even answer my two questions?

No posts have been deleted. What are you talking about?

Just ban him.

What did LW shoot on the last day to get into contention, 67 or 69? I can't remember. But either way, he was out of it but somehow managed to put together a tremendous round to even give himself a chance.

Bottler my @rse, I bet you don't even play golf or understand the pysche of the game.

As they say, you only get one chance to make a first impression.......

Nope - everyone is given a chance (as were you if you remember)

Maverick wrote:oh dear, 606 closes and the bottler word appears within moments, Yes what a bottle job coming through the field on last day to tie the lead and losing out to some seriously poor architechture in the design of the green.

Same bottle job that had back to back wins already this year and has far more wins than Donald throughout his career!

I think Donald is the rightful number 1 and one of my faves, but cannot take people calling someone who is far from being a bottler that thing!

Mave,

Whatever you think about the design, they all played the same course. To say he lost beacause of the architecture isn't really the case is it? He lost because the ball landed in the wrong area and/or he didn't control the spin appropriately...

drive4show wrote:As they say, you only get one chance to make a first impression.......

and you could have made a more effective one by dropping your trousers and setting light to a fart

Just had a nap and woken up in 606!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Am I dead? - there is nobody here to confirm!!

puligny wrote:Just had a nap and woken up in 606!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Am I dead? - there is nobody here to confirm!!

I often wake up in the night and have similar thoughts.

It's a simple test to see if you're dead. Roll over and have a look at the missus. If she's Kate Beckinsale you've pegged it and gone to heaven.

LondonJonnyO wrote:

Davie wrote:

Robbo_wont_be_champ again wrote:Hey Davie why delete my post? You didnt even answer my two questions?

No posts have been deleted. What are you talking about?

Just ban him.

Ban me? For what?

Rossa my point was that it wasn't a bottle and to be fair there was nothing wrong with LW's shot many players have stated the poor architecture of the green for the very thing that happened to LW

Now who is not answering the questions? What posts do you believe to have been deleted Robbo?

rubbish, donald's the bottler. 9 top 10s this year and he's only bagged 2 of them - useless. how on earth can he be number 1 with a record like that? should have won them all.

I disagree, i think if he had hit it right to the back of the green like Luke, then the spin wouldn't have taken it into the water or if he had controlled the spin it wouldn't have gone into the water.

They played the same green, 1 went in, 1 didn't...

You right about him not being a bottler though, and i think a green should be able to hold a shot like Westwood's but if he had played a better shot (further back like Lukes) it would have been dry...and a birdie chance...

Big Westwood (and Donald for that matter) fan here, but even Lee himself accepts that his 5-5-5 finish was not good enough.

Not for the reasons that Robbo states, and there is no evidence that Lee has lost tournaments under pressure that he should have won.

Have said it before and will probably say it again: For all the plaudits the media hand out to Billy Foster, the fact is that Westwood's scoring on par 5's is becoming a real handicap to him. Even at Wentoworth he was -4 on the par fives in regulation against Donald's -6; hardly surprising Donald had the advantage in the play-off.

Question is: What advice is Foster giving Westwood? He made a pig's ear of #17 for instance every single round (+1), with at least two medium length par putts made. We see the same pattern just about every tournament Lee plays in the US. Not good enough.

Kwini, you've pointed this out before and I agree. However, with the exception of the 8th at Dubai, I can't remember any where he's gone for a par 5 in two and come acropper. Should he be going for more par 5s in two, do you think, or is it just that he's not getting the layups to the right yardage?

I, too, do not think the design of the 18th green is unfair.

Westy had to play an aggressive shot because of the quality of Donald's. He could have minimised the risk by playing to the right but Donald forced his hand.

The 18th is almost perfect - it's just the fairway ditch that needs covering over to finish it off.

I think this is the most valid point raised. Westy is a very good solid player he is not a sluch off the tee but cannot remember the last time I saw him attack a par5 in two. I would assume he went at the 4th at Wentworth in 2 as it's a short one and theres no real advantage or disadvantage to laying up there.

I seem to recall something one of the commentators mentioned on the weekend about how foster told Seve to layup on a par5 but Seve said NO I am going for it....

That comment coupled with now thinking about how often Westy goes for it has got me wondering is Foster an over cautious caddy stifling Lee;s natural urge to attack because I remember in his younger days when he was first in the top 10 OGWR he went for a fair few long holes when maybe he shouldn't have.

Also the thing to look at on that playoff would've been the stats that despite being way down on Driving distance Luke Donald is in the top 3 players for par 5 scoring on the PGA tour this year so if I were Lee i'd have been thinking best way toapply pressure was either go for it in to or make sure he was playing his approach first.

Lots is being made of not going at 18 in two and Westy being cautious... but then you look at the fact that he was having a go at 17 in two. And it wasn't the pitching that messed him up but the nightmare of the hugely raised green that which caused the pars instead of the birdies.

LondonJonnyO wrote:Lots is being made of not going at 18 in two and Westy being cautious... but then you look at the fact that he was having a go at 17 in two. And it wasn't the pitching that messed him up but the nightmare of the hugely raised green that which caused the pars instead of the birdies.

The green at 18 is level with the fairway, now.

Smithers,
I only saw him play #17 in Rounds 3 and 4, but each time he pushed a long iron through the collection area to the right of the green, both times an up and down birdie almost impossible, neither time an automatic par.
Why not hit one club less where even a slight push would offer a straightforward chip to the hole? I know his long game is his strength but he unnecessarily brought his weakness into play. Plus he bogeyed it earlier in the week, not sure how.

Yes I thought I remembered him going for 17 on Sunday. I was follwing that group at that point and though I was 50-60 yards behind his tee shot (and therefore couldn't see the green from where I was standing) he did wait an awful long time for the green to clear

Well, I suppose it wasn't going to be long before the WUM's migrated over.

New version of 606 same moronic boards about Lee by "The glass is half empty brigade". Why can we not revel in the fact we have two top class golfers and role models challanging for the world number one position. This is great times for English,British and European golf, but instead some people have to have a dig to make themselves feel better. The fact that Lee was 8 shots off the lead at the end of the first round and played the best golf of anyone at the weekend is conveniently overlooked. Yes he did chicken up 16, but this happens in golf, why must everything boil down to choking? I look forward to many majors for both Luke and Lee, because once one wins the other will follow very quickly as it did in the late 80's with the masters and Lyle,Faldo and Woosnam. I said this on the previous 606 board.Why do people have to write this drivel? Are they Jealous or just thick?

I didn't type chicken.My initial post contained a word rhyming with sock. I didn't review it.Schoolboy error.

The profanity filter strikes again

What I find surprising is that anyone is naive enough to believe that any pro can play exactly the precise shot required at all times, any time they need it and if they don't succeed then they must be a bottler.

It doesn't happen in any other sport, e.g in tennis, football, F1 atheltics etc so why do you expect flawless shots every time from all golfers.

How boring would that be? All these WUMs succeed in doing is demonstrate just how little they know about golf and sport in general.

SR couldn't have put it better myself

I thought Westwood "flinched" on the shot causing it to go slightly left of where he was aiming but so what?

If he didn't have "bottle" he'd never have got to where he is in the first place.

He wouldn't have bothered trying to become a pro if he didn't have courage and he most certainly wouldn't have got a tour card, kept it and won tournaments all over the world.

For what it's worth I think Westwood has crumbled under the pressure in the past and much like McIlroy will find it difficult to overcome that stepping sotne.Look what happened to Sergio! i do think that Lee will find it difficult to win a major given that he has crumbled when it counts.

It is certainly true though that some people seem to expect perfect shots every time from the very top golfers.

An acquaintance of mine (he is even a golfer himself though it must be said, not a very good one) rambled on at me for ages on sunday evening about just this thing. He couldn't accept the fact that he saw so many shots at Wentworth that pitched pin high or maybe just short - then had too much backspin which took them to the front of the green or maybe even off the green.

All he could argue was "why don't they hit the ball past the flag if they are going to pull it back like that"

No matter how hard I tried to explain, that maybe they were trying to, or that they were trying (and failing) to take the spin off, or even in the simplest case that there wasn't enough green behind the pin to do that, he just couldn't get it

And this is from someone who (tries to) play the game - so it's hardly surprising that some people (wrongly) expect a top pro to be able to play every shot perfectly

Davie

the top boys SHOULD be able to control how much spin they put on the ball. Whether or not they do is a different matter of course.

They both choked at some point in the back nine but luckily a weakened effort from the rest of the field ensured one of them survived.


PS can I confirm that on the golf section people are free to post whatever golf articles they want. It just seems the mods have stepped out of line once again and decided that they now determine what people post. Oh dear where is this site going? I miss 606 already.

Davie, I know you have this huge dislike for the term bottler..... not sure why, it can and has been used very aplty in some cases (not here though)

There are many bottlers in sport, it maybe a slightly derogotary word, but it is accurate for Westwood IMO - not here though, he was a touch unlucky, however, his putt at 18 in normal time was pathetic!

All that was wrong with Westwoods shot (at 18th in playoff) was that he pulled it.

If he had hit it say 3 feet further right, he would have been stone dead, not a massive margin, but from that distance, (about 115 I think) i bit of an error for someone of his skill!

Poulter won the world matchplay in Spain

Donald won the WGC world matchplay

Good one