Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

Turn up for the books.............The hard left guy gets on the ballot for the Labour leadership !!....Managed to bag 35 nominations although some were chucked at him by Burnham who will no doubt pick up many of his second preferences...........

Corbyn has no chance....

However it means one of the other three is likely to get hurt in the first round..........Corbyn no doubt will hoover up the extreme nutty left of which there are no doubt plenty in the Labour party and will probably get enough to take him through the first round !!...

(Cruddas finished top in the 2007 Deputy leader race after the first round (He was the "left" candidate)...Of course Harman and Johnson did better as the rounds progresses with second prefs...)

That means one of the three favorites is likely to be eliminated first..................

Latest odds............

Burnham 10/11
Kendall 5/2
Cooper 3/1
Corbyn 66/1 .................

I'm fairly neutral when it comes to politics - both sides have something to offer, both have issues.

For me, Corbyn has SOME interesting ideas, such as a National Education Service. Some others however are bordering on the insane, such as scrapping Trident and re-nationalising the railways and utilities. He appears to be caught between the 1970s, when things were apparently glorious, and the modern world, where we strive to improve living standards (for those who work anyway).

Corbyn would appear to garner every single minority vote - and I don't mean in an ethnicity sense, I mean in a 'my view is contrary to most of society, Corbyn is my guy' way. He didn't have to campaign on any issues as his three opponents spent the entire time saying 'don't vote Corbyn' rather than 'vote for me because I'm the person this country needs'. He got the job thanks to the incompetency of the Labour Party, and thanks to Ed Balls losing his seat. He's not the person that's going to take Cameron's job away (or, once DC has quit in 2019, George Osbourne's job).

I hated his PMQs too. Who cares about Marie or Justin or whoever those fake questions were from? It was a golden opportunity to hammer a PM who's had no opposition for years, and he wasted it.

To look at UKIP stealing Labour votes and being a protest party one only has to look at the BNP.....In the Blair/Brown years...compared to 2014..

Euro elections 1999 (Blair at his peak) 102,000...
Euro elections 2004 (Blair unpopular) 808,000...
Euro elections 2009 (Brown unpopular) 934,000...
Euro elections 2014 ..........................179,000...

Such a shocking demise tends to show blue collar disgruntled types chose somewhere else to protest.......Wonder where ???

Azzy, he doesn't really have a whole lot to go on yet to do a creaming match across the aisle.

"You only got a majority because your manifesto was hated by all and voted for by the hundreds of thousands!!"

He's weak for now because of an election that went disastrously wrong, not a lot of finger pointing taunts would work right now with smug Cameron sniggering on the other side .... better to start slowly.

The guy went from a 100/1 outsider into a odds on winner with 59% on the first round.....Even Blair didn't win by that much...

My guess is anyone who can spark life into the dull as dishwater Labour party and be attracting 6,000 new members a day...........Must have some likeable qualities..

Best perhaps to just be yourself..........It hasn't done him any harm so far..

Trussman is right.

Protest votes could swing people to the Left of Labour from UKIP. There are plenty of reasons not to vote Tory, but, if there was a real chance that Labour could win, it's highly feasible that people would vote in favour of them.

Let's face, most 'Kippers' only vote for the immigration views of UKIP, it's not like they have any sense when it comes to economic policy.

As for Corbyn's PMQ's, what did you expect? There are enough people out there gunning for him, why make a t*t of yourself at the first chance you get. And how do you know those questions were fake? Corbyn doesn't strike me as the type of leader who needs to BS his way through things.

They probably weren't fake but when you get 40000 emails, you can probably find the 6 you want to ask

Alistair wrote:Let's face, most 'Kippers' only vote for the immigration views of UKIP, it's not like they have any sense when it comes to economic policy.

Although, UKIP were the only party in 2015 to have an economically-sound manifesto..

GSC wrote:They probably weren't fake but when you get 40000 emails, you can probably find the 6 you want to ask

Better than asking 6 that you personally don't want to ask?

"Corbyn - ask that Cameron does he think Simon Cowell was wrong to dumb Louis?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34276963

Interview with the Beeb last night.

Pr4wn wrote:Quoting a right-of-centre magazine as if they offer an impartial view

Look forward to seeing anything you ever post for absolute neutrality then....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why did UKIP do so well in Labour strongholds like sunderland......

PROTEST vote..........

Continued laughable absence of sound reasoning.....

Azzy wrote:
I hated his PMQs too. Who cares about Marie or Justin or whoever those fake questions were from? It was a golden opportunity to hammer a PM who's had no opposition for years, and he wasted it.

Weren't fake, apparently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11871261/Why-should-I-pay-for-Jeremy-Corbyns-friend-Claire-to-have-so-many-children-tax-credits-PMQs.html

SecretFly wrote:Azzy, he doesn't really have a whole lot to go on yet to do a creaming match across the aisle.

"You only got a majority because your manifesto was hated by all and voted for by the hundreds of thousands!!"

He's weak for now because of an election that went disastrously wrong, not a lot of finger pointing taunts would work right now with smug Cameron sniggering on the other side .... better to start slowly.  

Labour have a decade of Tory mistakes to go on. Corbyn could have gone:

1. Slam Cameron on tax credit and benefit cuts, proving his 'Big Society' is a con
2. Slam Osbourne on economic recovery and deficit failures
3. Slam Cameron on education
4. Slam Cameron on current foreign ops
5. Slam Hunt on the NHS
6. Slam Cameron on climate change and renewable energy, plus cost of energy

All six are key Corbyn focuses, and he could have dressed up each and every one to begin a withering and continued campaign against his opposition. Most of the country was waiting to see Corbyn in action - he missed his one glorious chance to announce to the public "This changes. Today. I will fight for this country to be better. I will hold this government to account and make them explain why they are failing our children, our seniors, our loved ones. This House is a house of the People, for the People and dammit, that's what I'm going to make it!"

Instead, we got Marie from Swindon (or wherever). Never has an opposition leader ever had a better chance to make the country sit up, take notice and start paying attention to politics. He's already failed.

Azzy wrote:

1. Slam Cameron on tax credit and benefit cuts, proving his 'Big Society' is a con
2. Slam Osbourne on economic recovery and deficit failures
3. Slam Cameron on education
4. Slam Cameron on current foreign ops
5. Slam Hunt on the NHS
6. Slam Cameron on climate change and renewable energy, plus cost of energy

They did all that and the result was Cameron sitting on the Government benches and a long election process for a new leader by Labour.

They have to change their tactics Azzy. You want a continuation of the theatrical shouting and AYEing, and foot-stamping across the chambers. Conservatives will laugh away all that guff for at least a year if not two. They have that strong a footing. The approach needs to be more subtle and long term

Instead they just gave Cameron some broad, predictable questions to easily bat away without any kind of probing follow up. Id expect the leader of the oppositions to at least give the PM some uncomfortable moments, it was all a bit easy for Cameron.

SecretFly wrote:

Azzy wrote:

1. Slam Cameron on tax credit and benefit cuts, proving his 'Big Society' is a con
2. Slam Osbourne on economic recovery and deficit failures
3. Slam Cameron on education
4. Slam Cameron on current foreign ops
5. Slam Hunt on the NHS
6. Slam Cameron on climate change and renewable energy, plus cost of energy

They did all that and the result was Cameron sitting on the Government benches and a long election process for a new leader by Labour.

They have to change their tactics Azzy.  You want a continuation of the theatrical shouting and AYEing, and foot-stamping across the chambers.  Conservatives will laugh away all that guff for at least a year if not two.  They have that strong a footing.  The approach needs to be more subtle and long term

They'll laugh even more at singular questions from "Dave of Bradford" with no follow up.

Kindergarten politics that pose the most risk simply of DC falling asleep!

SecretFly wrote:

Azzy wrote:

1. Slam Cameron on tax credit and benefit cuts, proving his 'Big Society' is a con
2. Slam Osbourne on economic recovery and deficit failures
3. Slam Cameron on education
4. Slam Cameron on current foreign ops
5. Slam Hunt on the NHS
6. Slam Cameron on climate change and renewable energy, plus cost of energy

They did all that and the result was Cameron sitting on the Government benches and a long election process for a new leader by Labour.

They have to change their tactics Azzy.  You want a continuation of the theatrical shouting and AYEing, and foot-stamping across the chambers.  Conservatives will laugh away all that guff for at least a year if not two.  They have that strong a footing.  The approach needs to be more subtle and long term

I don't recall Ed Miliband ever taking David Cameron to task. For anything. He was pathetic. I also don't recall the Labour election campaign, because they spent the entire time trying to tell people 'Ed is nice'.

Most people have 0% interest in the politician themselves. We care about policies. I think Labour has a serious issue - it hasn't talked policy since Tony Blair stepped down. Since then it's been 'Gordon's nice', the Miliband disaster, 'Ed is nice', and now the Corbyn disaster. The Tories haven't had an opposition for 8 years and counting - Corbyn could have been PM in 2020 if he had stepped up, Day 1, and said "This is it". Like Michael Jackson, minus the scandals.

Instead, we've had days of shadow cabinet resignations, old boys' club suggestions, the anthem idiocy, then the pointless PMQs. All Corbyn has done is show his political ineptness. What I wouldn't give for an opportunity to take David Cameron on as Labour leader. He'd be on his knees while his cabinet sat there, ashen-faced, as my Labour party rounded to my policies and we gave them hell.

But Nigel from Doncaster wants to know about the bedroom tax. Yawn.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Azzy wrote:

1. Slam Cameron on tax credit and benefit cuts, proving his 'Big Society' is a con
2. Slam Osbourne on economic recovery and deficit failures
3. Slam Cameron on education
4. Slam Cameron on current foreign ops
5. Slam Hunt on the NHS
6. Slam Cameron on climate change and renewable energy, plus cost of energy

They did all that and the result was Cameron sitting on the Government benches and a long election process for a new leader by Labour.

They have to change their tactics Azzy.  You want a continuation of the theatrical shouting and AYEing, and foot-stamping across the chambers.  Conservatives will laugh away all that guff for at least a year if not two.  They have that strong a footing.  The approach needs to be more subtle and long term

They'll laugh even more at singular questions from "Dave of Bradford" with no follow up.

Kindergarten politics that pose the most risk simply of DC falling asleep!

Dave of Bradford will be most displeased that his Representatives laugh at his mutterings......

Corbyn might be on to something here.  Keep goading with Dave of Bradford's questions until the Tories can't take it no more and have a right good foot-stomping laugh.......

"Ah HA! you basterdes!  It so happens I have Dave here in person in the public gallery.  Are you laughing at the electorate Prime Minister?  Is Dave from Bradford's question beneath you?  Tell him directly to his face why you laugh?"

Old Corby.................  Sly old dog.

I disagree completely with the people don't care about the politician point Azzy. Ed lost primarily because nobody could see him as a Prime Minister

Azzy wrote:Most people have 0% interest in the politician themselves. We care about policies.

People say they care about policies and not personalities, but if you've ever seen one of those 'talking to real people' segments in the run up to an election you'll know how often the answer to a follow up question about which specific policies they (dis)like is a lot of flailing about before saying something vaguely related to how they feel about the leader.

GSC wrote:I disagree completely with the people don't care about the politician point Azzy. Ed lost primarily because nobody could see him as a Prime Minister

I disagree - Miliband lost because Labour failed to adequately demonstrate that their policies would be better for the country than the Conservative policies. When you have a government that (apparently) the whole country hates, and when all the polling indicates a close contest, it comes down to who do you trust to run the country, the guys doing it now or the guys who have said nothing about how they'd fix the mess? Exit polls on the day were saying that the undecideds voted for Conservative candidates because they didn't think Labour had a plan for fixing the country.

I voted for a Tory candidate in a Labour safe seat - I didn't vote for Cameron and, tbh, there are at least half a dozen politicians in the Conservative party who I believe would make a better PM than Fat Dave. But until Labour get their fingers out and tell this country:

- what they actually believe
- how they will turn things around
- how the public themselves can help

Then they'll get nowhere. And having Jeremy Corbyn, an anti-establishment, anti-everything old has-been with zero swagger or tolerance for public speaking, was exactly what the Labour Party needed. However he has squandered all of his political capital within the first week and it's going to take something monumental to bring him back to where he should be right now, which is standing above Cameron's bloodied face with a mace in one hand and a Union flag in the other.

People vote for personality too much. Another Americanisation of British society.

Look at the popular defectee to UKIP (Reckless or Carswell) that kept his seat. He couldn't do much before as a local MP and now for a party with no power he can do even less. But people still vote for him.

I vote based on national party policies and what will be best for me and my family.

TopHat24/7 wrote:People vote for personality too much. Another Americanisation of British society.

Look at the popular defectee to UKIP (Reckless or Carswell) that kept his seat. He couldn't do much before as a local MP and now for a party with no power he can do even less.  But people still vote for him.

I vote based on national party policies and what will be best for me and my family.

Closure of Sea World?

superflyweight wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:People vote for personality too much. Another Americanisation of British society.

Look at the popular defectee to UKIP (Reckless or Carswell) that kept his seat. He couldn't do much before as a local MP and now for a party with no power he can do even less.  But people still vote for him.

I vote based on national party policies and what will be best for me and my family.

Closure of Sea World?

Proliferation of slim fast?

Anti-fat jokes.......

Ran the Great North Run in 2h11m last Sunday so couldn't really give a fook........

bad news for Corbyn fans..............and for Lib dems.....UKIP are doing ok..

Comres - Con 42 Lab 30 Lib 7 UKIP 13
Yougov - Con 39 Lab 31 Lib 6 UKIP 16 !!!!!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:bad news for Corbyn fans..............and for Lib dems.....UKIP are doing ok..

Comres   -  Con 42 Lab 30 Lib 7 UKIP 13
Yougov   -  Con 39 Lab 31 Lib 6 UKIP 16 !!!!!!

Same polls that had a hung parliament?

Truss never learns his lesson....

The polls were out of line in 2015...........But not for Libs, UKIP and the Greens.......

Think people got cold feet about Mili at the last minute..

Or maybe the polls were completely wrong?

Maybe......But they were spot on in 97, 2001, 2005 and only a couple of points out in 2010...

Do think the public went for the safer option.............Had it not been for wanting to get rid of my local Lib dem mp I probably wouldn't have voted.....

Did you get rid of them Truss?

Manchester Withington...

Oh Jeff Smith MP, hopefully he serves the local people well

Things are happening in the battle for the white house...

Clinton has fallen behind left wing Bernie in New Hampshire and Trump has fallen behind Carly in the GOP race...

Corbyn's persons ratings are trailing Ed's by some way over here..

I saw bernie was doing well

It will be Clinton v Bush .....People are just kicking the establishment without getting into policy at the moment..

Osborne v Jarvis in 2020 over here..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It will be Clinton v Bush .....People are just kicking the establishment without getting into policy at the moment..

Osborne v Jarvis in 2020 over here..

If there is a labour leadership election before 2020 i would vote for Jarvis if he stands

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why did UKIP do so well in Labour strongholds like sunderland......

PROTEST vote..........

Second in the 2009 European elections
A quarter of the vote in the 2013 local elections
Winners of the 2014 European elections
Third biggest vote-share in the 2015 general election
Classed as a major party by Ofcom

How long is this 'protest' going on for?

Not long now the Libs are out of govt as recent council by elections show

Yep the original protest part are back in that role, UKIP might do well at the Euro elections but little else, farage is a busted flush i think

wheelchair1991 wrote:Yep the original protest part are back in that role, UKIP might do well at the Euro elections but little else, farage is a busted flush i think

Did you miss the last general election?

No we didn't.....They were the protest party Duty..

The lib dems couldnt be a protest party as they were in government however thats not the case now, i expect UKIP to do well in Euro elections but not as well in domestic elections

The Lib Dems aren't a protest party as they don't stand for anything.

And Farage is done. We didn't miss the general election but maybe you missed the part where he failed to get elected but a large margin?

Not a UKipper but to dismiss UKIP as purely a protest party is frankly just denial of an issue that appears to be quite important to the almost 4 million people that voted for them, roughly the same as LD and SNP combined.

The sort of denail I'd expect from a Labour supporter/voter.....(or anyone that think Corbyn is the answer the GE2015 failure)

Pr4wn wrote:The Lib Dems aren't a protest party as they don't stand for anything.

And Farage is done. We didn't miss the general election but maybe you missed the part where he failed to get elected but a large margin?

I wasn't talking about Farage, I was refuting an idea that UKIP would only do well at the European elections.

It seemed that that poster had been completely oblivious to the last general election, where UKIP got the 3rd highest amount of votes.

Right, yes. And only one seat. The total number of votes are, unfortunately, irrelevant. Farage didn't win his seat so his credibility is massively impacted. The poster specifically referred to Farage but you just chose to ignore this, then.

Yes, only one seat due to the democratically bankrupt system we have. It would be around 80 seats with a fair system.

That was simply the point I was contesting. Whether Farage is a 'busted flush' or not will only be answered in the course of time.

I agree with you about the system, it's ridiculous.

But surely Farage's legitimacy is affected by the fact that he's already failed to win his own seat. Couple this with his almost total withdrawal from the headlines and his party's laughable participation record in Europe, he looks more of an outsider looking in now than he has at any point in the last five years.