Is it time for the regions to start answering questions ?

Well, we all know what we are like in Wales, what with our in fighting and the what not, over the last few years the WRU have been scrutinised and put under the microscope by us, the Welsh premiership has been scrutinised and it is looking like it is being changed, the only other part of Welsh rugby that has not yet been scrutinised and put under the microscope are the regions.

Now that the regions have negotiated a better deal with the WRU and we now have dual contracts and more money for the regions, for me I think it is inevitable that now the other members of the WRU are going to start to ask questions if the performances of the regions do not improve, the regions cannot in my opinion be allowed to remain in the status quo without answering any questions if their performances do not improve, I think it is now time for the regions to start shouldering a little more responsibility and be made to answer if performances do not start showing signs of improvement, we need to start looking at getting all four teams in the top six of the league now, and in future we should start seeing better performances in Europe, this is why the regions rightfully negotiated a better deal from the WRU.

They won the war a few months ago, now they must perform to show what they have fought for and won was the right thing to do, they must show an improvement or they should come under the microscope just as the WRU has, and the lower level rugby has.

Does anybody else agree with this ? Or do you think that the regions should be allowed to keep the status quo they are currently enjoying ?

What status quo?

Are we still not lacking in money given to us, compared to our rivals? Four Welsh teams in the top 6 seems a very pie in the sky suggestion from you (to put it politely).

The Saint wrote:What status quo?

Indeed.

If all the Wales internationals were in Wales spread out among 4 teams then it might be a realistic ambition, but I think more are set to leave aren't they?

The Saint wrote:What status quo?

Well, that they should carry on under achieving in the league without being answerable to anybody, that is what I call the status quo. Cardiff Blues 10th in the league and Dragons 9th is unforgivable for my liking, if it were not for the two Italian sides, we would have the two worst sides in the league representing Wales, that is unacceptable for my liking, and if they fail to improve next season then the other members of the WRU should rightly put the regions under the same microscope as they put the WRU under.

From my external perspective, I assume the Welsh status quo is:

The Osprey's are top 4 in the league and are competitive in Europe (less so in recent years)

Scarlets will make it into the top 7 and make the European Champions cup

Cardiff have a "great" preseason then falls apart when rugby is played. Bottom half of the table.

Gwent Dragons lack the money and the ambition for big signings. Fighting losers. Bottom half of the table.

Problem for the Welsh (imho) is how do you get the regions up the table without significant investment. Connacht is steadily getting better, Edinburgh have shown signs of becoming tough to beat, the Italian teams may even play professional level rugby this year. There is a need to continually improve to even maintain the status quo as the Scarlets proved by nearly getting pipped by Edinburgh and Connacht.

What do people want to see from each region to consider there to be progress? Is it increasing the fan base, delivering players for Wales, improvement in performance, change in attitude of each club? These are not mutually exclusive but for each region what would people like to see as the marker for each club needs to be different? Cardiff could do with coaching stability but is it enough to finish 9th and be tough to beat?

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:What status quo?

Well, that they should carry on under achieving in the league without being answerable to anybody, that is what I call the status quo. Cardiff Blues 10th in the league and Dragons 9th is unforgivable for my liking, if it were not for the two Italian sides, we would have the two worst sides in the league representing Wales, that is unacceptable for my liking, and if they fail to improve next season then the other members of the WRU should rightly put the regions under the same microscope as they put the WRU under.

I assume you're indirectly talking about replacing them if they fail to improve? Just stop mincing about and explain what you're on about. I'll tell you in advance there is no alternative to them though. How exactly are they meant to justify their positions? Their role is to provide players for team Wales, much like those below the regions job is to provide players for the regions. I know you have trouble grasping that.

LordDowlais wrote:
I think it is inevitable that now the other members of the WRU are going to start to ask questions if the performances of the regions do not improve

Which members?

Probably those same members that complain so much about "regional A" teams or think they could step up and replace the existing pro teams.

New Cardiff coaching team to be announced this week.
A question answered I guess.

Risca Rev wrote:Probably those same members that complain so much about "regional A" teams or think they could step up and replace the existing pro teams.

So members refers to the clubs in Wales then? It could have been members of the WRU board which most would assume... LD wasn't being very specific!

The Saint wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Probably those same members that complain so much about "regional A" teams or think they could step up and replace the existing pro teams.

So members refers to the clubs in Wales then? It could have been members of the WRU board which most would assume... LD wasn't being very specific!

LD does tend to generalise though and invent stuff. As in "the Valleys" are one entity, all for one and one for all.

The Saint wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Probably those same members that complain so much about "regional A" teams or think they could step up and replace the existing pro teams.

So members refers to the clubs in Wales then? It could have been members of the WRU board which most would assume... LD wasn't being very specific!

As I said, it would help if he stopped mincing about and said what he meant. All he deals in is supposition or hinting at things.

His if it wasn't for the Italians was particularly nonsensical. You could say that about any league. If it hadn't have been for two bottom three premiership football teams, Newcastle Utd would've been relegated. That's similar logic.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Probably those same members that complain so much about "regional A" teams or think they could step up and replace the existing pro teams.

So members refers to the clubs in Wales then? It could have been members of the WRU board which most would assume... LD wasn't being very specific!

LD does tend to generalise though and invent stuff. As in "the Valleys" are one entity, all for one and one for all.

Agree.

Why does everyone get all insulting on here when they cannot answer the questions ? Why cant we debate properly without resorting to petty insults ?

If the regions are having the lions share of the funding in Wales then the other clubs in Wales have a right to ask what is being done with it when they are constantly underachieving. There is no excuses for the regions anymore, they have now got what they want, it is time for them to start improving, if they do not then they should be made to answer for why they are not improving, both on and off the field, Scarlets posted massive losses this time around, that needs to improve, Blues finishing 10th in the league that needs to improve, Dragons finishing 9th in the league, that needs to improve, I am sorry but sides like Dragons have been scrapping along the bottom for too long now, from next season onwards there should be no more excuses.

I want to see ALL our regions fighting for a place in Europe, not just one. If people on here think how things are going is fine then you need a reality check. A 10th and a 9th place finish and a side just scrapping into the top six on the last day of the season is not acceptable, the war is over in Wales now, the regions have won, it is time for them to now put up or shut up, they cannot keep on blaming the WRU forever.

Risca Rev wrote:Their role is to provide players for team Wales

Well you have changed your tune haven't you ? Not so long ago it was how the WRU and team Wales were killing the game in Wales, now it is how it is supposed to be, make your mind up will you.

Risca Rev wrote:His if it wasn't for the Italians was particularly nonsensical. You could say that about any league. If it hadn't have been for two bottom three premiership football teams, Newcastle Utd would've been relegated. That's similar logic.

Ok then have it your way. Lets me put it this way, out of Ireland Scotland and Wales, we have the two worst teams representing us, but then again, being a Dragons fan I suppose you are now used to failure and now accept that as the norm.

Depends on how you measure the regions performance

If you are measuring them on their results alone they have questions to answer

But if you measure their success by the number of International standard players available to WG and the results of that side then that is another matter

The Welsh regions are just about overachieving given their budgets.
The Scottish sides probably are too.
The Irish sides are massively underachieveing.
The Italians are about where they should be.

Chunky Norwich wrote:The Welsh regions are just about overachieving given their budgets.

But that has changed now, so we should see improvements, if not then they should be made answerable for it. Why should the regions be allowed to enjoy their status quo without having to answer for their failures.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:The Welsh regions are just about overachieving given their budgets.

But that has changed now, so we should see improvements, if not then they should be made answerable for it. Why should the regions be allowed to enjoy their status quo without having to answer for their failures.

What has changed? The way I would measure success in the league is to measure league placings compared to budgets. Given this info, all the regions bar Cardiff are performing to a statisfactory level in 2014/15.

So I'm not sure what these failures are. Unless you have some examples of marketing strategy etc that has not been discussed. The Scarlets accounts were disappointing, and unless there is a big improvement next year, they will and should come under more scrutiny. The Blues should do better in the league next year or there'll be questions rightly asked.

As far as Europe goes, the Welsh regions winning any matches in the RCC is a success.

Chunky Norwich wrote: The Scarlets accounts were disappointing, and unless there is a big improvement next year, they will and should come under more scrutiny. The Blues should do better in the league next year or there'll be questions rightly asked.

So, there you are, you agree.

Chunky Norwich wrote:What has changed?

Well, they are getting more funding for a start.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote: The Scarlets accounts were disappointing, and unless there is a big improvement next year, they will and should come under more scrutiny. The Blues should do better in the league next year or there'll be questions rightly asked.

So, there you are, you agree.

Next year I'll agree if they are poor yes.

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Their role is to provide players for team Wales

Well you have changed your tune haven't you ? Not so long ago it was how the WRU and team Wales were killing the game in Wales, now it is how it is supposed to be, make your mind up will you.

How have I changed my tune? Another typical Dowlais post.

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:His if it wasn't for the Italians was particularly nonsensical. You could say that about any league. If it hadn't have been for two bottom three premiership football teams, Newcastle Utd would've been relegated. That's similar logic.

Ok then have it your way. Lets me put it this way, out of Ireland Scotland and Wales, we have the two worst teams representing us, but then again, being a Dragons fan I suppose you are now used to failure and now accept that as the norm.

Why not include the Italians again? Just trying to alter things to suit your agenda again. As for your childish pop, maybe I am used to it although at least they are a pro team, unlike that mob whose behaviour you try justifying.

LordDowlais wrote:Why does everyone get all insulting on here when they cannot answer the questions ? Why cant we debate properly without resorting to petty insults ?

If the regions are having the lions share of the funding in Wales then the other clubs in Wales have a right to ask what is being done with it when they are constantly underachieving. There is no excuses for the regions anymore, they have now got what they want, it is time for them to start improving, if they do not then they should be made to answer for why they are not improving, both on and off the field, Scarlets posted massive losses this time around, that needs to improve, Blues finishing 10th in the league that needs to improve, Dragons finishing 9th in the league, that needs to improve, I am sorry but sides like Dragons have been scrapping along the bottom for too long now, from next season onwards there should be no more excuses.

I want to see ALL our regions fighting for a place in Europe, not just one. If people on here think how things are going is fine then you need a reality check. A 10th and a 9th place finish and a side just scrapping into the top six on the last day of the season is not acceptable, the war is over in Wales now, the regions have won, it is time for them to now put up or shut up, they cannot keep on blaming the WRU forever.

Maybe people can't respond to your posts, as they feel it's too much of an effort to decipher what you're on about. Instead of writing long winded posts, just write Dragons are rubbish as that seems to be the point of your "discussion".

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:The Welsh regions are just about overachieving given their budgets.

But that has changed now, so we should see improvements, if not then they should be made answerable for it. Why should the regions be allowed to enjoy their status quo without having to answer for their failures.

Look Dowlais, they're signed to an agreement for x amount of years. Ponty aren't going to be replacing anybody. Just give up the ghost.

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Their role is to provide players for team Wales

Well you have changed your tune haven't you ? Not so long ago it was how the WRU and team Wales were killing the game in Wales, now it is how it is supposed to be, make your mind up will you.

How have I changed my tune? Another typical Dowlais post.

You have changed your tune because to suit yourself you are now saying the regions are here to service team Wales, when in the past you have lambasted the WRU and team Wales because of the way they treat the regions, anyway, there is no excuses next season, you are getting what you want, so lets see some improved performances and a challenge for the top six, otherwise questions SHOULD be asked.

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:The Welsh regions are just about overachieving given their budgets.

But that has changed now, so we should see improvements, if not then they should be made answerable for it. Why should the regions be allowed to enjoy their status quo without having to answer for their failures.

Look Dowlais, they're signed to an agreement for x amount of years. Ponty aren't going to be replacing anybody. Just give up the ghost.

I do not want Ponty to replace anybody, I will make use of what we have thank you, I just want the four regions to start showing up a bit more, Blues finishing 10th, Dragons finishing 9th and Scarlets scrapping into the top 6 on the last day is not good enough thank you, but you seem happy enough to see our teams languishing at the bottom end of the league, you are happy to put up with mediocrity ? Well I am not, the regions are getting extra funding now, there are no excuses anymore, not even for Dragons, it time to start stepping up to the mark.

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Their role is to provide players for team Wales

Well you have changed your tune haven't you ? Not so long ago it was how the WRU and team Wales were killing the game in Wales, now it is how it is supposed to be, make your mind up will you.

How have I changed my tune? Another typical Dowlais post.

You have changed your tune because to suit yourself you are now saying the regions are here to service team Wales, when in the past you have lambasted the WRU and team Wales because of the way they treat the regions, anyway, there is no excuses next season, you are getting what you want, so lets see some improved performances and a challenge for the top six, otherwise questions SHOULD be asked.

Who are going to ask these questions? Have I lambasted them? Be interested to see that.

Risca Rev wrote:Who are going to ask these questions? Have I lambasted them? Be interested to see that.

Firstly, everybody lambasted team Wales and the WRU especially when it came to things like the 4th AI.

Secondly, the WRU and it's members should be asking questions as to why the teams that are getting the lions share of the funding in Wales are doing so crap in the league.

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:The Welsh regions are just about overachieving given their budgets.

But that has changed now, so we should see improvements, if not then they should be made answerable for it. Why should the regions be allowed to enjoy their status quo without having to answer for their failures.

Look Dowlais, they're signed to an agreement for x amount of years. Ponty aren't going to be replacing anybody. Just give up the ghost.

I do not want Ponty to replace anybody, I will make use of what we have thank you, I just want the four regions to start showing up a bit more, Blues finishing 10th, Dragons finishing 9th and Scarlets scrapping into the top 6 on the last day is not good enough thank you, but you seem happy enough to see our teams languishing at the bottom end of the league, you are happy to put up with mediocrity ? Well I am not, the regions are getting extra funding now, there are no excuses anymore, not even for Dragons, it time to start stepping up to the mark.

Is the extra funding equal to what their rival teams get? It doesn't matter if they SCRAPED into the top 6, the fact is they did get in there. Cardiff Blues are in another transition season, so they have an excuse and as for the Dragons, they are forced into trying to balance the books as best as possible. Not even Connacht seemingly have that worry. I can offer a number of reasons why Dragons only finished 9th last season. We are a young team, who suffered horrendous injuries. With a cleaner bill of health next season and with more experience behind Amos etc, I can see us doing better. I'd still love to know who they'd have to justify themselves to though.

Risca Rev wrote:I'd still love to know who they'd have to justify themselves to though.

Not once have I said they have to justify themselves, what I am saying is, that they have no more excuses, as have none of the other three regions. The regions have won their war with the WRU, they are getting what they want, if they improve next season then all will be fine, but another season at the bottom end of the league, then they should be made to answer for why they are still failing, as should any other region that does not improve.

I am fed up of hearing of the hardships of the regions, and I am fed up with the excuses they keep giving for mediocrity, the WRU have given in to them now, so the regions must make payment for getting what they have demanded, no more pointing fingers outwards for blame, there is no one left to blame anymore, if we do not see improvements then answers need to be given.

If they're being made to answer to somebody, how are they not justifying something? Jeez you are impossible. Think this thread has proven to be a waste of time. Quelle surprise.

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:His if it wasn't for the Italians was particularly nonsensical. You could say that about any league. If it hadn't have been for two bottom three premiership football teams, Newcastle Utd would've been relegated. That's similar logic.

Ok then have it your way. Lets me put it this way, out of Ireland Scotland and Wales, we have the two worst teams representing us, but then again, being a Dragons fan I suppose you are now used to failure and now accept that as the norm.

Doesn't take you long to have a pop at your least favourite team eh. Next you'll be going down on your favourite team. Again.

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Their role is to provide players for team Wales

Well you have changed your tune haven't you ? Not so long ago it was how the WRU and team Wales were killing the game in Wales, now it is how it is supposed to be, make your mind up will you.

How have I changed my tune? Another typical Dowlais post.

You have changed your tune because to suit yourself you are now saying the regions are here to service team Wales, when in the past you have lambasted the WRU and team Wales because of the way they treat the regions, anyway, there is no excuses next season, you are getting what you want, so lets see some improved performances and a challenge for the top six, otherwise questions SHOULD be asked.

LD, you really do have trouble reading and writing don't you. It is a fact that the regional teams were formed to provide players for team Wales. The WRU have previously engaged in what can be considered unethical behaviour (or something along those lines), in this regard, ridiculous league structures and trying to strangle the regions - how does saying this make the original fact (about the regions purpose) void? Questions have been asked since 2003, where have you been since then?

The Saint wrote:LD, you really do have trouble reading and writing don't you

Yep more insults again from saint and his organ grinder risca, oh well, I suppose you are happy with your team never achieving anything. Look Dragons have no excuses anymore, they have won the battle with the WRU, next season, if Dragons are still finishing just above the Italian sides, then they should have to answer to the WRU and tell them why they are so crap.

The Saint wrote:Doesn't take you long to have a pop at your least favourite team eh

Who would that be then Saint ? Before you answer, just remember, I went to see watch Dragons play more times than you did last season. So you must hate them more than me.

LordDowlais wrote: Blues finishing 10th, Dragons finishing 9th and Scarlets scrapping into the top 6 on the last day is not good enough thank you.

Where do you think the Scarlets and Dragons should have finished then?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: Blues finishing 10th, Dragons finishing 9th and Scarlets scrapping into the top 6 on the last day is not good enough thank you.

Where do you think the Scarlets and Dragons should have finished then?

In the top six. I could accept Dragons scrapping it out on the last day, but I would expect Scarlets to be fighting for a playoff place.

LordDowlais wrote:

I would expect Scarlets to be fighting for a playoff place. :

Why would you expect a team with the 9th/10th largest player budget to come in the top 4?

Chunky Norwich wrote:Why would you expect a team with the 9th/10th largest player budget to come in the top 4?

Because they have a number of Welsh internationals in their side, and they are bolstered with a few good imports as well.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Why would you expect a team with the 9th/10th largest player budget to come in the top 4?

Because they have a number of Welsh internationals in their side, and they are bolstered with a few good imports as well.

Presumably you think there are only 3 teans better in the league than the Scarlets? Which ones are these?

I'm honestly surprised this thread is going. Dowlais is being shown up again and yet everybody else is wrong #dowlaislogic

Chunky Norwich wrote:Presumably you think there are only 3 teans better in the league than the Scarlets? Which ones are these?

Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Glasgow, Ospreys. As I said I do not expect them to finish in the top 4, but I expect them to be fighting for it. Next year you will be getting extra funding, so I expect a better fist of it from Scarlets next season and I will be disappointed if there is no improvement.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:LD, you really do have trouble reading and writing don't you

Yep more insults again from saint and his organ grinder risca, oh well, I suppose you are happy with your team never achieving anything. Look Dragons have no excuses anymore, they have won the battle with the WRU, next season, if Dragons are still finishing just above the Italian sides, then they should have to answer to the WRU and tell them why they are so crap.

Can you show me where on that post you quoted, I insulted you please?

As for the rest of your post, have a day off.

Risca Rev wrote:I'm honestly surprised this thread is going. Dowlais is being shown up again and yet everybody else is wrong #dowlaislogic

Ooops, the organ grinder is back, with his insults and no structured reply's. Keep the insults up risca.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Presumably you think there are only 3 teans better in the league than the Scarlets? Which ones are these?

Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Glasgow, Ospreys. As I said I do not expect them to finish in the top 4, but I expect them to be fighting for it. Next year you will be getting extra funding, so I expect a better fist of it from Scarlets next season and I will be disappointed if there is no improvement.

So you've named five teams better than Scarlets, yet you expect Dragons to be battling with these lot as well for a top six place. You are beyond help. I really am done one this thread.