Is it time for the regions to start answering questions ?

First topic message reminder :

Well, we all know what we are like in Wales, what with our in fighting and the what not, over the last few years the WRU have been scrutinised and put under the microscope by us, the Welsh premiership has been scrutinised and it is looking like it is being changed, the only other part of Welsh rugby that has not yet been scrutinised and put under the microscope are the regions.

Now that the regions have negotiated a better deal with the WRU and we now have dual contracts and more money for the regions, for me I think it is inevitable that now the other members of the WRU are going to start to ask questions if the performances of the regions do not improve, the regions cannot in my opinion be allowed to remain in the status quo without answering any questions if their performances do not improve, I think it is now time for the regions to start shouldering a little more responsibility and be made to answer if performances do not start showing signs of improvement, we need to start looking at getting all four teams in the top six of the league now, and in future we should start seeing better performances in Europe, this is why the regions rightfully negotiated a better deal from the WRU.

They won the war a few months ago, now they must perform to show what they have fought for and won was the right thing to do, they must show an improvement or they should come under the microscope just as the WRU has, and the lower level rugby has.

Does anybody else agree with this ? Or do you think that the regions should be allowed to keep the status quo they are currently enjoying ?

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The issue would still be there though. Everyone has different views of where the regional boundaries would be etc. It is in our nature to argue.

Exactly, I think Swansea is in the west of Wales, you do not, we will never agree, but if you were to draw a line straight down the middle of Wales Swansea would be on the left hand side of the line, so for me that is west.

Lol. So by that definition Portsmouth is in the West of England?

Your right, there is a difficult balance between geographical area, population areas and facilities available.

However do you really think the 12 miles or so between Swansea and Llanelli makes your geographical argument any more valid?

Or the 14 miles or so from Cardiff to Newport for that matter?

It's difficult to balance geographical areas with fan base, but really there is little population west of Swansea / Llanelli, in comparison to the dense areas of the the South East.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Lol. So by that definition Portsmouth is in the West of England?

South West at least.

Fanster wrote:

It's difficult to balance geographical areas with fan base, but really there is little population west of Swansea / Llanelli, in comparison to the dense areas of the the South East.

The Scarlets traditional stronghold has a population of nearly 400,000 according to the last census.

That's more than Swansea, Bridgend, Neath and Maesteg combined.

I personally would call Swansea west wales as anything beyond them is just land, and being from London ish anything beyond Cardiff is west lol

But then I always think in population terms, and we as a people are so linked with the tiny M4 corridor in the main part we forget theres a whole big wide Wales out there.

I always classed Welshpool as mid Wales until having to drive it from Cardiff recently, now i'd call it blwdy North!!!

Fanster wrote:I personally would call Swansea west wales as anything beyond them is just land

I think we've been duped into thinking you were a serious poster.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The issue would still be there though. Everyone has different views of where the regional boundaries would be etc. It is in our nature to argue.

Exactly, I think Swansea is in the west of Wales, you do not, we will never agree, but if you were to draw a line straight down the middle of Wales Swansea would be on the left hand side of the line, so for me that is west.

Put it this way, Swansea to Bristol is 59.64miles, but Swansea to Dale (Pembrokeshire) is 53.03miles, Swansea to Aberystwyth is 55.29miles. 4 miles futher to Bristol than it is to the west outreaches of Wales.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:

It's difficult to balance geographical areas with fan base, but really there is little population west of Swansea / Llanelli, in comparison to the dense areas of the the South East.

The Scarlets traditional stronghold has a population of  nearly 400,000 according to the last census.

That's more than Swansea, Bridgend, Neath and Maesteg combined.

You are being a little bit selective there chunk, you have left out towns like Port Talbot, Pontardawe, Pyle, Aberavon, Glynneath and numerous others, the population goes up to well over 500,000.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:I personally would call Swansea west wales as anything beyond them is just land

I think we've been duped into thinking you were a serious poster.

If it were just land then the UK would be pretty shafted for petrol, diesel and gas. I'm pretty sure Milford Haven is the energy capital of the UK.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:

It's difficult to balance geographical areas with fan base, but really there is little population west of Swansea / Llanelli, in comparison to the dense areas of the the South East.

The Scarlets traditional stronghold has a population of  nearly 400,000 according to the last census.

That's more than Swansea, Bridgend, Neath and Maesteg combined.

Define traditional stronghold?

So it's good to know your potential fanbase is larger than the Ospreys, does your gates outshine theirs too? How about performances? Financial viability?

Or are you blindly trying to distort facts and twist them to suit your argument that Llanelli is the greatest town in the known universe and beats everyone hands down?

Why is it btw the national assembly has the population of Llanelli as 78,000 in 2007 and Llanelli town council estimates 35000 today (Genuine question btw?)

In reality the Scarlets region covers Llanelli and it's surroundings only, and probably directly engages with a potential quarter of your 400'000. Now i'm not slating Llanelli only, they are part of the problem only!

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Put it this way, Swansea to Bristol is 59.64miles, but Swansea to Dale (Pembrokeshire) is 53.03miles, Swansea to Aberystwyth is 55.29miles. 4 miles futher to Bristol than it is to the west outreaches of Wales.

I said my quote with a tongue in my cheek to be honest, but for your numbers to add up, we need to get the width of Wales in miles first, if you look at the map of Wales, you can clearly see Swansea is more west than anything else, or to be more specific, south west.

Fanster wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:

It's difficult to balance geographical areas with fan base, but really there is little population west of Swansea / Llanelli, in comparison to the dense areas of the the South East.

The Scarlets traditional stronghold has a population of  nearly 400,000 according to the last census.

That's more than Swansea, Bridgend, Neath and Maesteg combined.

Define traditional stronghold?

So it's good to know your potential fanbase is larger than the Ospreys, does your gates outshine theirs too? How about performances? Financial viability?

Or are you blindly trying to distort facts and twist them to suit your argument that Llanelli is the greatest town in the known universe and beats everyone hands down?

Why is it btw the national assembly has the population of Llanelli as 78,000 in 2007 and Llanelli town council estimates 35000 today (Genuine question btw?)

In reality the Scarlets region covers Llanelli and it's surroundings only, and probably directly engages with a potential quarter of your 400'000. Now i'm not slating Llanelli only, they are part of the problem only!

That is far from the truth. As I have previously, and seems like repeatedly, said the Scarlets are followed by the people of Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. I know numerous season ticket holders in the west of Pembrokeshire, and many more regular attenders, and I also know of a fair few season ticket holders (and regular attenders).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:I personally would call Swansea west wales as anything beyond them is just land

I think we've been duped into thinking you were a serious poster.

If it were just land then the UK would be pretty shafted for petrol, diesel and gas.  I'm pretty sure Milford Haven is the energy capital of the UK.

Please don't be so selective in your reading, if Petrol, Diesel and Gas to walk through your turnstyles then fair play, arguments won.

I get your passionate Scarlets fans, but a bit of big picture thinking, of which is so rare in Wales would have done wonders 13/14 years ago.

Fanster is trolling. No point in replying.

Dyfed has an estimated population of 375,200 as of 2007 I do not know if that has gone up now mind, what with all the English moving over there to retire, and in the summer the population probably goes up a lot as well, I know I spend nearly every weekend down there between May and September.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Fanster is trolling. No point in replying.

He is not trolling, he is given his point of view, I can see no insults and none of his posts seem antagonising so I fail to see why you come to this assumption.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:

It's difficult to balance geographical areas with fan base, but really there is little population west of Swansea / Llanelli, in comparison to the dense areas of the the South East.

The Scarlets traditional stronghold has a population of  nearly 400,000 according to the last census.

That's more than Swansea, Bridgend, Neath and Maesteg combined.

Define traditional stronghold?

So it's good to know your potential fanbase is larger than the Ospreys, does your gates outshine theirs too? How about performances? Financial viability?

Or are you blindly trying to distort facts and twist them to suit your argument that Llanelli is the greatest town in the known universe and beats everyone hands down?

Why is it btw the national assembly has the population of Llanelli as 78,000 in 2007 and Llanelli town council estimates 35000 today (Genuine question btw?)

In reality the Scarlets region covers Llanelli and it's surroundings only, and probably directly engages with a potential quarter of your 400'000. Now i'm not slating Llanelli only, they are part of the problem only!

That is far from the truth.  As I have previously, and seems like repeatedly, said the Scarlets are followed by the people of Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion.  I know numerous season ticket holders in the west of Pembrokeshire, and many more regular attenders, and I also know of a fair few season ticket holders (and regular attenders).

Which is great, but my original point stands up more now than ever, if they are happy to travel the big distances to the Parc Y Scarlets, then by your own words they would be happy to go the 12 miles further to support the Llanelli - Swansea hybrid? Plus, had Llanelli and Swansea merged originally then there is a reasonable train of thought that saidf they would have been able to build a Parc y Scarlets style stadium, but bigger (With a bigger fanbase, and more money from the WRU without having to help fund the actual Parc Y Scarlets) somewhere in between Swansea and Llanelli?

Meaning the near half a million fans would only have to travel an extra 6, lets say 8 miles further.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Put it this way, Swansea to Bristol is 59.64miles, but Swansea to Dale (Pembrokeshire) is 53.03miles, Swansea to Aberystwyth is 55.29miles. 4 miles futher to Bristol than it is to the west outreaches of Wales.

I said my quote with a tongue in my cheek to be honest, but for your numbers to add up, we need to get the width of Wales in miles first, if you look at the map of Wales, you can clearly see Swansea is more west than anything else, or to be more specific, south west.

http://tjpeiffer.com/crowflies.html

Try entering Swansea, United Kingdom and St Davids, United Kingdom, and then changing St. Davids to Lydney, Unkited Kingdom. It clearly shows it is pretty much smack bang central.

Personally I only really accept Llanelli as being west because it is in Carmarthenshire (well very soon back in Dyfyd ), so it has to be west.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Fanster is trolling. No point in replying.

He is not trolling, he is given his point of view, I can see no insults and none of his posts seem antagonising so I fail to see why you come to this assumption.

I have absolutely nothing against Llanelli as a town, it's lovely, I like West Wales too! I have nothing against the Scarlets, I think theyre a great little club, and produce a lot of talent, I also think the other regions of Wales are as much to blame as Scarlets for where Welsh rugby is, as are the WRU and just about everyone involved who looked after their own interest first.

I'm merely debating the Scarlets point because there is someone to debate it with, if you want to talk about why Cardiff and Newport should probably have joined I could do that too, although it would probably be to a slightly leser extent.

Fanster wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Fanster is trolling. No point in replying.

He is not trolling, he is given his point of view, I can see no insults and none of his posts seem antagonising so I fail to see why you come to this assumption.

I have absolutely nothing against Llanelli as a town, it's lovely, I like West Wales too! I have nothing against the Scarlets, I think theyre a great little club, and produce a lot of talent, I also think the other regions of Wales are as much to blame as Scarlets for where Welsh rugby is, as are the WRU and just about everyone involved who looked after their own interest first.

I'm merely debating the Scarlets point because there is someone to debate it with, if you want to talk about why Cardiff and Newport should probably have joined I could do that too, although it would probably be to a slightly leser extent.

You are not debating. You are telling us there is nothing but land past Swansea, and the Scarlets only cater for Llanelli and it's immediate surround. Seems you've got your mind made up to me.

Chunky Norwich wrote:You are not debating. You are telling us there is nothing but land past Swansea, and the Scarlets only cater for Llanelli and it's immediate surround. Seems you've got your mind made up to me.

What about the point I made to you though Chunk about you being selective with your population theory, Ospreys have a much larger catchment population than Scarlets, would you not agree ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:You are not debating. You are telling us there is nothing but land past Swansea, and the Scarlets only cater for Llanelli and it's immediate surround. Seems you've got your mind made up to me.

What about the point I made to you though Chunk about you being selective with your population theory, Ospreys have a much larger catchment population than Scarlets, would you not agree ?

Yes. Of course they have.

Are there any Scarlets fans on 606 that are from Llanelli?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Fanster is trolling. No point in replying.

He is not trolling, he is given his point of view, I can see no insults and none of his posts seem antagonising so I fail to see why you come to this assumption.

I have absolutely nothing against Llanelli as a town, it's lovely, I like West Wales too! I have nothing against the Scarlets, I think theyre a great little club, and produce a lot of talent, I also think the other regions of Wales are as much to blame as Scarlets for where Welsh rugby is, as are the WRU and just about everyone involved who looked after their own interest first.

I'm merely debating the Scarlets point because there is someone to debate it with, if you want to talk about why Cardiff and Newport should probably have joined I could do that too, although it would probably be to a slightly leser extent.

You are not debating. You are telling us there is nothing but land past Swansea, and the Scarlets only cater for Llanelli and it's immediate surround. Seems you've got your mind made up to me.

I've got my mind made up that perhaps Llanelli doesn't have the ability to stand alone as a professional club in Wales? thats up for debate, there is probably proof there somewhere, maybe over the last few years of money lending etc, maybe this seasons losses?

Or do I have my mind made up that on inception the regions could have been structured better?

Why are you using a distorted quote out of context to try to score cheap points? I was clearly talking about population, and fan base, I argued that there just isn't enough people who are engagable beyond Swansea to sustain a pro club, and that because of that Warriors paid the price. It could well have been Llanelli who had gone under could it have not?

If you have near half a million people out 'west' then are your gates and finances showing that they are engagable, in comparison to say the Ospreys of whom have a far lower potential fanbase?

Chunky Norwich wrote:Are there any Scarlets fans on 606 that are from Llanelli?

Then doesn't that highlight that Llanelli as a town isn't where the fanbase is, and that by merging with Swansea and moving say 8 miles down the road noone would have been alienated, and it wouldn't effect the new teams numbers except conjoin the Swansea and Llanelli diehards into one huge fanbase?

Fanster wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:

It's difficult to balance geographical areas with fan base, but really there is little population west of Swansea / Llanelli, in comparison to the dense areas of the the South East.

The Scarlets traditional stronghold has a population of  nearly 400,000 according to the last census.

That's more than Swansea, Bridgend, Neath and Maesteg combined.

Define traditional stronghold?

So it's good to know your potential fanbase is larger than the Ospreys, does your gates outshine theirs too? How about performances? Financial viability?

Or are you blindly trying to distort facts and twist them to suit your argument that Llanelli is the greatest town in the known universe and beats everyone hands down?

Why is it btw the national assembly has the population of Llanelli as 78,000 in 2007 and Llanelli town council estimates 35000 today (Genuine question btw?)

In reality the Scarlets region covers Llanelli and it's surroundings only, and probably directly engages with a potential quarter of your 400'000. Now i'm not slating Llanelli only, they are part of the problem only!

That is far from the truth.  As I have previously, and seems like repeatedly, said the Scarlets are followed by the people of Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion.  I know numerous season ticket holders in the west of Pembrokeshire, and many more regular attenders, and I also know of a fair few season ticket holders (and regular attenders).

Which is great, but my original point stands up more now than ever, if they are happy to travel the big distances to the Parc Y Scarlets, then by your own words they would be happy to go the 12 miles further to support the Llanelli - Swansea hybrid? Plus, had Llanelli and Swansea merged originally then there is a reasonable train of thought that saidf they would have been able to build a Parc y Scarlets style stadium, but bigger (With a bigger fanbase, and more money from the WRU without having to help fund the actual Parc Y Scarlets) somewhere in between Swansea and Llanelli?

Meaning the near half a million fans would only have to travel an extra 6, lets say 8 miles further.

I see where your coming from, but in that case why not merge them all and based them in Cardiff? A far greater potential audience, better transport links for all etc.

There has to be a point where you stop saying "it is just an extra few miles' and say that it is now too long a journey to be worth your while. For example a home game means for me I am out the house for 5-6 hours (travelling, watching, travelling again), but an extra few miles would push that up to 6-7 hours. Also it is costing about £15-20 in fuel at the moment, this would go up by an additional £1.50 ish, I know that seems a little but over the course of a season that makes it go from costing £240-320 a season to around £264-£344. Then there is the whole having to park and leave your car in Swansea issue....... So it is not just a simple case of 'oh well it is only a few extra miles'.

I know what you are trying to do. You are trying to say 'Llanelli to Swansea is similar to Pontypridd to Cardiff in distance. People expect Pontypridd fans to go to Cardiff, why not expect Scarlets fans to go to Swansea". But your well off target.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Are there any Scarlets fans on 606 that are from Llanelli?

N'ah I think it is just me and you left. The days of their being Rugbydreamer, SmirnoffPriest, Glas A Du, on here are long gone sadly.

Fanster wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Fanster is trolling. No point in replying.

He is not trolling, he is given his point of view, I can see no insults and none of his posts seem antagonising so I fail to see why you come to this assumption.

I have absolutely nothing against Llanelli as a town, it's lovely, I like West Wales too! I have nothing against the Scarlets, I think theyre a great little club, and produce a lot of talent, I also think the other regions of Wales are as much to blame as Scarlets for where Welsh rugby is, as are the WRU and just about everyone involved who looked after their own interest first.

I'm merely debating the Scarlets point because there is someone to debate it with, if you want to talk about why Cardiff and Newport should probably have joined I could do that too, although it would probably be to a slightly leser extent.

You are not debating. You are telling us there is nothing but land past Swansea, and the Scarlets only cater for Llanelli and it's immediate surround. Seems you've got your mind made up to me.

I've got my mind made up that perhaps Llanelli doesn't have the ability to stand alone as a professional club in Wales? thats up for debate, there is probably proof there somewhere, maybe over the last few years of money lending etc, maybe this seasons losses?  

Or do I have my mind made up that on inception the regions could have been structured better?

Why are you using a distorted quote out of context to try to score cheap points? I was clearly talking about population, and fan base, I argued that there just isn't enough people who are engagable beyond Swansea to sustain a pro club, and that because of that Warriors paid the price. It could well have been Llanelli who had gone under could it have not?

If you have near half a million people out 'west' then are your gates and finances showing that they are engagable, in comparison to say the Ospreys of whom have a far lower potential fanbase?

Why do the Ospreys have a far lower fanbase?

The issue of crowds is one of poor product. If I was a floating voter then would have to think twice about going to see Scarlets in the pro12. It's poor. the matches are poor, the players on show are poor, the officiating is poor, the kcik off times are inaccessible and different every week. It's a mess.

There's no point in talking about the merits of a merger. It'll never happen, thankfully.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Why do the Ospreys have a far lower fanbase?

I would not have thought so, the attendances are about equal I would predict, but I see a lot more people warring Ospreys shirts than I do see people warring Scarlets shirts, so perhaps Ospreys have more casual supporters.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Are there any Scarlets fans on 606 that are from Llanelli?

N'ah I think it is just me and you left.  The days of their being Rugbydreamer, SmirnoffPriest, Glas A Du, on here are long gone sadly.

Got tired of the Welsh constantly being slagged off by mod and poster alike I guess.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

There's no point in talking about the merits of a merger. It'll never happen, thankfully.

Yeah it's kind of well off-topic...

I promise you this was in no way heading toward a Ponty - Cardiff kind of thing.

I agree that you have to draw the line somewhere, but after 15/20/40 miles travelling what difference does that extra 6/8 mean? Afterall your asking the usual Swansea fans to go from travelling 1/2/5 to 5/10/15, and there is probably just as much argument to say that isn't necesary for them. Except it may be, a few miles extra each and Welsh rugby could have had the structure it deserved and the success it deserved.

I'm not saying the fans should be shouldering this burden, but the powers that be messed it up initially.

The ideal set up in my opinion would have been for 4 regions south and 1 North...

Llanelli - Swansea Ospreys

Neath - Bridgend Blues

Ponty - Cardiff west Warriors

Newport - Cardiff East Dragons

Upset everyone and noone stays upset, the massive population of Cardiff is divided, obviously the names would not be there, just the regions. There is enough distance to cover the entire South corridor, and the RGC could have been a development region with less funding etc.

Fanster wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Are there any Scarlets fans on 606 that are from Llanelli?

Then doesn't that highlight that Llanelli as a town isn't where the fanbase is, and that by merging with Swansea and moving say 8 miles down the road noone would have been alienated, and it wouldn't effect the new teams numbers except conjoin the Swansea and Llanelli diehards into one huge fanbase?

No it just shows we tend to stick to our own fan forum

The ship has sailed now, we have to put up with what we have got, and we need to make what we have got better, the only other change I can see very far away on the horizon is the North Wales project. So we might as well get behind the 4 pro teams we have for the minute and get them into the top 6 of the league.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Fanster is trolling. No point in replying.

He is not trolling, he is given his point of view, I can see no insults and none of his posts seem antagonising so I fail to see why you come to this assumption.

I have absolutely nothing against Llanelli as a town, it's lovely, I like West Wales too! I have nothing against the Scarlets, I think theyre a great little club, and produce a lot of talent, I also think the other regions of Wales are as much to blame as Scarlets for where Welsh rugby is, as are the WRU and just about everyone involved who looked after their own interest first.

I'm merely debating the Scarlets point because there is someone to debate it with, if you want to talk about why Cardiff and Newport should probably have joined I could do that too, although it would probably be to a slightly leser extent.

You are not debating. You are telling us there is nothing but land past Swansea, and the Scarlets only cater for Llanelli and it's immediate surround. Seems you've got your mind made up to me.

I've got my mind made up that perhaps Llanelli doesn't have the ability to stand alone as a professional club in Wales? thats up for debate, there is probably proof there somewhere, maybe over the last few years of money lending etc, maybe this seasons losses?  

Or do I have my mind made up that on inception the regions could have been structured better?

Why are you using a distorted quote out of context to try to score cheap points? I was clearly talking about population, and fan base, I argued that there just isn't enough people who are engagable beyond Swansea to sustain a pro club, and that because of that Warriors paid the price. It could well have been Llanelli who had gone under could it have not?

If you have near half a million people out 'west' then are your gates and finances showing that they are engagable, in comparison to say the Ospreys of whom have a far lower potential fanbase?

Why do the Ospreys have a far lower fanbase?

The issue of crowds is one of poor product. If I was a floating voter then  would have to think twice about going to see Scarlets in the pro12. It's poor. the matches are poor, the players on show are poor, the officiating is poor, the kcik off times are inaccessible and different every week. It's a mess.

There's no point in talking about the merits of a merger. It'll never happen, thankfully.

Thats my point, the product is poor because the foundations were poor. The product as it is are a byproduct of how the regional system was set up, and sadly you have to agree that the Scarlets were a part of that problem. So your product is poor because the powers that be looked after themselves and created the poor product.

Fanster wrote:Thats my point, the product is poor because the foundations were poor. The product as it is are a byproduct of how the regional system was set up, and sadly you have to agree that the Scarlets were a part of that problem. So your product is poor because the powers that be looked after themselves and created the poor product.

You cannot argue with that.

LordDowlais wrote:The ship has sailed now, we have to put up with what we have got, and we need to make what we have got better, the only other change I can see very far away on the horizon is the North Wales project. So we might as well get behind the 4 pro teams we have for the minute and get them into the top 6 of the league.

Your right, we should get behind them for the good of Welsh rugby, heres hoping we get promoted back to the Aviva premiership next season without that joke of a coach from Cardiff Blues

Well the regions are getting what they wanted now, so I hope we see some improvements from them.

I think we will, I mentioned earlier a potential Blues team, and it looked very strong.

I think they've highlighted that producing talent isn't a problem, but keeping hold of it is, so have begun to adress that.

I think in maybe 3 seasons when bigger names are starting to decide to stay (Hopefully) crowds pick up because of it, and then performances pick up, meaning crowds pick up again and playing in Wales becomes more attractive there is no reason why the Welsh regions can't rival the Irish provinces.

LordDowlais wrote:The ship has sailed now, we have to put up with what we have got, and we need to make what we have got better, the only other change I can see very far away on the horizon is the North Wales project. So we might as well get behind the 4 pro teams we have for the minute and get them into the top 6 of the league.

50% there already. But if you merged them we would only be 33.3% there haha

There's a massive reason why they probably can't rival the Irish provinces still. They're tied to an agreement for five more years or so, where they earn less.

So when people say the Regions got what they wanted, well did they really?

LordDowlais wrote:

Fanster wrote:Thats my point, the product is poor because the foundations were poor. The product as it is are a byproduct of how the regional system was set up, and sadly you have to agree that the Scarlets were a part of that problem. So your product is poor because the powers that be looked after themselves and created the poor product.

You cannot argue with that.

Except the only two regions to have made the RCC, playoff spots and won the league are the two that people keep wanting merged.

Risca Rev wrote:So when people say the Regions got what they wanted, well did they really?

They must have, Ospreys and Blues are now wanting the salary cap axed, so there must be more money floating around, also if they did not get what they wanted we would not have this peace in our time slogan rolled out when the regions won the war with the WRU surely ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:So when people say the Regions got what they wanted, well did they really?

They must have, Ospreys and Blues are now wanting the salary cap axed, so there must be more money floating around, also if they did not get what they wanted we would not have this peace in our time slogan rolled out when the regions won the war with the WRU surely ?

Won the war? That's not quite true is it. They settled, yet again on a happy medium. The same as they did five or so years back.

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:So when people say the Regions got what they wanted, well did they really?

They must have, Ospreys and Blues are now wanting the salary cap axed, so there must be more money floating around, also if they did not get what they wanted we would not have this peace in our time slogan rolled out when the regions won the war with the WRU surely ?

Who rolled it out though? The Western Fail, where they even had a pic of Roger the Dodger looking all triumphant.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:So when people say the Regions got what they wanted, well did they really?

They must have, Ospreys and Blues are now wanting the salary cap axed, so there must be more money floating around, also if they did not get what they wanted we would not have this peace in our time slogan rolled out when the regions won the war with the WRU surely ?

Won the war?  That's not quite true is it.  They settled, yet again on a happy medium.  The same as they did five or so years back.

This is what the WM were saying:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/60m-peace-deal-welsh-rugby-7685871

It seems to me the regions got what they wanted, and the WRU threw in the A game as a give us something back gesture.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Come on LD, lets see your Pro12 Top 12 placings wishlist for next year please.

How can I give specific placings ? I am not mystic meg FFS. I expect the regions to be fighting to be in the top six, not just one, and one scrapping in on the last day, I think they should all be there or there about's.

You still seem to think the regions don't want to be in the top six, aren't trying their damnedest to be in the top six, and that they're happy to be in the bottom half of the table. They're not happy to be there, they never have been. They want to finish as far up the table as they can; but they're up against teams with bigger budgets that are inevitably more attractive propositions for overseas players. The regions can only do so much - but you seem to think they're not even trying. Why is that?

LordDowlais wrote:This is what the WM were saying:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/60m-peace-deal-welsh-rugby-7685871

It seems to me the regions got what they wanted, and the WRU threw in the A game as a give us something back gesture.

Seeing as the western fail was so neutral during the spat, their credibility went down the bowl.

I do not think they are not trying, I think though, that they are being run incompetently, to many people with too much money, fueling their egos whilst running a rugby club. The thing is, they are not in charge of rugby clubs anymore, they are in charge with something bigger, they have more responsibilities now, time for people like Peter Thomas to get out of the ammature era, and into the Pro era. Owning a pro rugby club in Wales is not a status symbol anymore, it is a responsibility to the Welsh ruby public as you are in charge of a whole region.