Is it time for the regions to start answering questions ?

First topic message reminder :

Well, we all know what we are like in Wales, what with our in fighting and the what not, over the last few years the WRU have been scrutinised and put under the microscope by us, the Welsh premiership has been scrutinised and it is looking like it is being changed, the only other part of Welsh rugby that has not yet been scrutinised and put under the microscope are the regions.

Now that the regions have negotiated a better deal with the WRU and we now have dual contracts and more money for the regions, for me I think it is inevitable that now the other members of the WRU are going to start to ask questions if the performances of the regions do not improve, the regions cannot in my opinion be allowed to remain in the status quo without answering any questions if their performances do not improve, I think it is now time for the regions to start shouldering a little more responsibility and be made to answer if performances do not start showing signs of improvement, we need to start looking at getting all four teams in the top six of the league now, and in future we should start seeing better performances in Europe, this is why the regions rightfully negotiated a better deal from the WRU.

They won the war a few months ago, now they must perform to show what they have fought for and won was the right thing to do, they must show an improvement or they should come under the microscope just as the WRU has, and the lower level rugby has.

Does anybody else agree with this ? Or do you think that the regions should be allowed to keep the status quo they are currently enjoying ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Presumably you think there are only 3 teans better in the league than the Scarlets? Which ones are these?

Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Glasgow, Ospreys. As I said I do not expect them to finish in the top 4, but I expect them to be fighting for it. Next year you will be getting extra funding, so I expect a better fist of it from Scarlets next season and I will be disappointed if there is no improvement.

Those teams are way ahead because they have loads more money. With the exception of the Ospreys who had a cracking season and overachieved by miles.

You can't expect Welsh regions to compete with the Irish provinces. It's totally unrealistic.

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:I'm honestly surprised this thread is going. Dowlais is being shown up again and yet everybody else is wrong #dowlaislogic

Ooops, the organ grinder is back, with his insults and no structured reply's. Keep the insults up risca.

Don't need to insult you or try showing you up, as you do that yourself. I do however foolishly try to debate with you, but in reality there is no debate to be had with a stubborn old goat who only sees things his way and when he's shot down by a number of people, they're wrong not him. Genius.

Risca Rev wrote:So you've named five teams better than Scarlets, yet you expect Dragons to be battling with these lot as well for a top six place. You are beyond help. I really am done one this thread.

Why not ? If Dragons are in the bottom four again next season, with the extra funding they are getting, who's fault will it be ? The WRU again ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:So you've named five teams better than Scarlets, yet you expect Dragons to be battling with these lot as well for a top six place. You are beyond help. I really am done one this thread.

Why not ? If Dragons are in the bottom four again next season, with the extra funding they are getting, who's fault will it be ? The WRU again ?

Why do you expect the Dragons to come 6th or 7th? It's crazy. They do not have the resources to come 6th or 7th.

Chunky Norwich wrote:You can't expect Welsh regions to compete with the Irish provinces. It's totally unrealistic.

Why is it unrealistic ? Did I just imagine the Ospreys narrowly missing out on a final last season ?

Chunky Norwich wrote:Why do you expect the Dragons to come 6th or 7th? It's crazy. They do not have the resources to come 6th or 7th.

They will be getting extra funding next season, so they could at least show willing.

In fairness we were finished 8 points off seventh this season that is two wins. I can think of at least one win which we through away last season and we were down to the bare bones at times.

So yes 6th or 7th should be the aim, however looking at the signings and retirees we will suffer again from not having a big enough squad to cope with injuries

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Why do you expect the Dragons to come 6th or 7th? It's crazy. They do not have the resources to come 6th or 7th.

They will be getting extra funding next season, so they could at least show willing.

What extra funding from next season? Does this reflect in the raft of top quality signings they have made?

Chunky Norwich wrote:What extra funding from next season?

Well a few of your Welsh internationals will be having 60% of their wages paid for a start.

Also you have signed the following:-

DTH van der merwe (Glasgow)
Will Taylor (Wasps)
Price (Leicester Tigers)
Aled Thomas (Gloucester)
Morgan Allen (Ospreys)
Jack Condy (Cross Keys)
Dylan Evans (Queensland)

So you have bolstered you squad as well, I will look forward to seeing an improvement next season. COME ON SCARLETS.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:What extra funding from next season?

Well a few of your Welsh internationals will be having 60% of their wages paid for a start.

Also you have signed the following:-

DTH van der merwe (Glasgow)
Will Taylor (Wasps)
Price (Leicester Tigers)
Aled Thomas (Gloucester)
Morgan Allen (Ospreys)
Jack Condy (Cross Keys)
Dylan Evans (Queensland)

So you have bolstered you squad as well, I will look forward to seeing an improvement next season. COME ON SCARLETS.

The dual contracts only come in from November? Are you sure about that?

Chunky Norwich wrote:The dual contracts only come in from November? Are you sure about that?

i have never said that.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:The dual contracts only come in from November? Are you sure about that?

i have never said that.

Can you explain what difference in funding will be next season to this season then? And how this has affected the squads going into the 2015/2016?

They will have players on DC that is extra money for the regions.

LordDowlais wrote:They will have players on DC that is extra money for the regions.

So what have the Dragon spent this extra money on, to enable them to get to 6th next season?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:They will have players on DC that is extra money for the regions.

So what have the Dragon spent this extra money on, to enable them to get to 6th next season?

Ed Jackson
Sarel Pretourious
Charlie Davies
Carl Meyer
Adam Warren
Nick Scott

So I hope we see an improvement after adding these players to the squad.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:They will have players on DC that is extra money for the regions.

So what have the Dragon spent this extra money on, to enable them to get to 6th next season?

Ed Jackson
Sarel Pretourious
Charlie Davies
Carl Meyer
Adam Warren
Nick Scott

So I hope we see an improvement after adding these players to the squad.

Looks like a championship winning cohort of signings to me.

Its all relative. For example the Blues (who finished 10th posted) posted Turnover at 7.95 million.

Now no disrespect here but neither Glasgow, Edinburgh or Connacht who all finished well above them have anywhere near that kind of base to start from.

The point I'm making is that money alone does not build success. Ospreys and Glasgow are a clear example of that.

Leinster for example have the biggest budget of the lot and a 5th place finish for them clearly wasn't a representation of spending power.

Welshmushroom wrote:Its all relative.  For example the Blues (who finished 10th posted) posted Turnover at 7.95 million.  

Now no disrespect here but neither Glasgow, Edinburgh or Connacht who all finished well above them have anywhere near that kind of base to start from.

The point I'm making is that money alone does not build success.  Ospreys and Glasgow are a clear example of that.

Leinster for example have the biggest budget of the lot and a 5th place finish for them clearly wasn't a representation of spending power.  

Turnover / Budget has nothing to do with squad wage spend though.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Its all relative.  For example the Blues (who finished 10th posted) posted Turnover at 7.95 million.  

Now no disrespect here but neither Glasgow, Edinburgh or Connacht who all finished well above them have anywhere near that kind of base to start from.

The point I'm making is that money alone does not build success.  Ospreys and Glasgow are a clear example of that.

Leinster for example have the biggest budget of the lot and a 5th place finish for them clearly wasn't a representation of spending power.  

Turnover / Budget has nothing to do with squad wage spend though.

But it does. Your ability to fund your team directly is impacted by your funding/income. Granted Welsh Regions capped themselves in terms of the ratio of wages to turnover. But the principle remains the same. Your turnover directly governs your ability to spend. What each team does with it is their own business.

Welshmushroom wrote:

But it does.  Your ability to fund your team directly is impacted by your funding/income.  Granted Welsh Regions capped themselves in terms of the ratio of wages to turnover.  But the principle remains the same.  Your turnover directly governs your ability to spend.  What each team does with it is their own business.  

So why quote Cardiff's turnover for a period that saw them have a capped wage spend?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:They will have players on DC that is extra money for the regions.

So what have the Dragon spent this extra money on, to enable them to get to 6th next season?

Ed Jackson
Sarel Pretourious
Charlie Davies
Carl Meyer
Adam Warren
Nick Scott

So I hope we see an improvement after adding these players to the squad.

Looks like a championship winning cohort of signings to me.

Like trying to draw blood from a stone eh.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Why do you expect the Dragons to come 6th or 7th? It's crazy. They do not have the resources to come 6th or 7th.

They will be getting extra funding next season, so they could at least show willing.

What extra funding from next season? Does this reflect in the raft of top quality signings they have made?

So you asked him a question about Dragons squad and he turned it into a pop against Scarlets? Am I the only one who picks him up on his skewed arguments? Wow.

I know I said I wouldn't discuss anything with him on this, but I'm disappointed I'm the only one who has to put the stubborn old bark in his place.

GavinDragon wrote:In fairness we were finished 8 points off seventh this season that is two wins. I can think of at least one win which we through away last season and we were down to the bare bones at times.

So yes 6th or 7th should be the aim, however looking at the signings and retirees we will suffer again from not having a big enough squad to cope with injuries

Think you're on the wrong thread to talk sense to the OP sorry. He won't accept it.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:What extra funding from next season?

Well a few of your Welsh internationals will be having 60% of their wages paid for a start.

Also you have signed the following:-

DTH van der merwe (Glasgow)
Will Taylor (Wasps)
Price (Leicester Tigers)
Aled Thomas (Gloucester)
Morgan Allen (Ospreys)
Jack Condy (Cross Keys)
Dylan Evans (Queensland)

So you have bolstered you squad as well, I will look forward to seeing an improvement next season. COME ON SCARLETS.

Glad Dragons have signed them, as they're who you were on about.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:They will have players on DC that is extra money for the regions.

So what have the Dragon spent this extra money on, to enable them to get to 6th next season?

Ed Jackson
Sarel Pretourious
Charlie Davies
Carl Meyer
Adam Warren
Nick Scott

So I hope we see an improvement after adding these players to the squad.

Ok genius, what money have we spent extra on these? That was the question you were asked.

Ed Jackson = Andy Powell replacement.
Sarel Pretorious = Richie Rees replacement
Charlie Davies = Jon Evans replacement.
Carl Meyer = brought in from Ebbw Vale. Hell of a budget buster.
Adam Warren = Ashley Smith replacement.

So maybe we've spent our budget on Nick Scott, though we've lost Lee Byrne and Ian Gough off our budget, so try again and answer what have we spent out of our "extra money"? You have no clue!

You tell me then Risca, what are you spending your extra funding on ?

This thread is comedy gold!

No 7&1/2 wrote:This thread is comedy gold!

Well, the thing is, just because I have asked questions, and certain posters have attacked me, without even giving a structured reply, they just call me stupid, or stubborn, then yes it will turn into comedy gold. Lets not worry though, the regions will struggle again in the league next year, even though they are now getting everything they want from the WRU, then when they fail to qualify for Europe, they will start blaming everybody else again, the poor regions, always the victims.

Only in Wales eh.

Risca Rev wrote:Glad Dragons have signed them, as they're who you were on about.

I am on about ALL the regions, it's just that you then use that line as a stick to beat me with.

LordDowlais wrote:You tell me then Risca, what are you spending your extra funding on ?

You were asked the question, not me. I just corrected your wrong answer.

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:You tell me then Risca, what are you spending your extra funding on ?

You were asked the question, not me. I just corrected your wrong answer.

No I didn't boi bach, I think you should check what you are reading on here in the middle of the night, I answered that question, I think it was chunkynowrich who asked it.

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:This thread is comedy gold!

Well, the thing is, just because I have asked questions, and certain posters have attacked me, without even giving a structured reply, they just call me stupid, or stubborn, then yes it will turn into comedy gold. Lets not worry though, the regions will struggle again in the league next year, even though they are now getting everything they want from the WRU, then when they fail to qualify for Europe, they will start blaming everybody else again, the poor regions, always the victims.

Only in Wales eh.

How do they not qualify for Europe? Please take more time on your "structured replies".

How do you know they are getting "everything they want"?

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:You tell me then Risca, what are you spending your extra funding on ?

You were asked the question, not me. I just corrected your wrong answer.

No I didn't boi bach, I think you should check what you are reading on here in the middle of the night, I answered that question, I think it was chunkynowrich who asked it.

Notice the WERE. Nothing wrong with my reading mate.

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:This thread is comedy gold!

Well, the thing is, just because I have asked questions, and certain posters have attacked me, without even giving a structured reply, they just call me stupid, or stubborn, then yes it will turn into comedy gold. Lets not worry though, the regions will struggle again in the league next year, even though they are now getting everything they want from the WRU, then when they fail to qualify for Europe, they will start blaming everybody else again, the poor regions, always the victims.

Only in Wales eh.

How do they not qualify for Europe? Please take more time on your "structured replies".

How do you know they are getting "everything they want"?

If the regions put up a fight in the league and we get 3 out 4 in the top six, and the other at least fighting for the top six then for me, there should be no questions asked, but if one region limps into the top six and the others fail miserably AGAIN then the WRU, it's members and the fans are all entitled to ask what the friggin hell is going on. I am fed up of excuses, we are not getting money, we have loads of injuries, we are in transition, blah, blah, blah.

There was a very public war last season, the WRU gave into the regions, the only thing the WRU got back was a paltry A game for Wales at some point, do you honestly think the regions would have backed down if they did not get what they wanted, they are now getting their funding, and the WRU are paying towards the international players. How long are the regions going to be pointing outwards for blame ?

Now instead of trying to beat me all the time, try and have a proper debate with me for once, I am answering all the questions on here, why don't you try answering some ? Why do you not think we will see an improvement from the regions next season ? Why do you think they should keep rolling out the same excuses ? Are the WRU still to blame if the regions are still underachieving next season ?

I doubt I will get any structured answers out of you though, you just seem happy to try and tell the world how stupid and stubborn I am and how I am always irrelevant, without telling anybody why.

3 out of 4 regions in the top 6? What planet are you on where you think the squads that Scarlets, Cardiff and Newport have are going to put in a better performance over 22 games than 3 of Ulster, Leinster, Munster, Glasgow, Edinburgh etc?

There's optimism, and then there's downright lunacy. It's liek asking for Treviso to make the semi finals of the Rugby Champions cup. They do not have the resources. How many times do we have to say it?

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:This thread is comedy gold!

Well, the thing is, just because I have asked questions, and certain posters have attacked me, without even giving a structured reply, they just call me stupid, or stubborn, then yes it will turn into comedy gold. Lets not worry though, the regions will struggle again in the league next year, even though they are now getting everything they want from the WRU, then when they fail to qualify for Europe, they will start blaming everybody else again, the poor regions, always the victims.

Only in Wales eh.

How do they not qualify for Europe? Please take more time on your "structured replies".

How do you know they are getting "everything they want"?

If the regions put up a fight in the league and we get 3 out 4 in the top six, and the other at least fighting for the top six then for me, there should be no questions asked, but if one region limps into the top six and the others fail miserably AGAIN then the WRU, it's members and the fans are all entitled to ask what the friggin hell is going on. I am fed up of excuses, we are not getting money, we have loads of injuries, we are in transition, blah, blah, blah.

There was a very public war last season, the WRU gave into the regions, the only thing the WRU got back was a paltry A game for Wales at some point, do you honestly think the regions would have backed down if they did not get what they wanted, they are now getting their funding, and the WRU are paying towards the international players. How long are the regions going to be pointing outwards for blame ?

Now instead of trying to beat me all the time, try and have a proper debate with me for once, I am answering all the questions on here, why don't you try answering some ? Why do you not think we will see an improvement from the regions next season ? Why do you think they should keep rolling out the same excuses ? Are the WRU still to blame if the regions are still underachieving next season ?

I doubt I will get any structured answers out of you though, you just seem happy to try and tell the world how stupid and stubborn I am and how I am always irrelevant, without telling anybody why.

But you said there were five teams better than the Scarlets, so how are the other two meant to get in the top six? Do you even remember what you write?

I am surprised if the regions didn't just compromise a little, in order to end "the war". Don't you think they'd have liked to be on equal funding with their rivals though?

No you aren't answering all of the questions on here, or you'd answer Chunky's question and answer mine of how don't the regions qualify for Europe. Writing long winded replies doesn't constitute a structured reply. I am just capable of getting my point across using say five words instead of say 1000.

.

.

There's 15 teams better than the scarlets now!

edit: Okay that joke doesn't work anymore.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

But it does.  Your ability to fund your team directly is impacted by your funding/income.  Granted Welsh Regions capped themselves in terms of the ratio of wages to turnover.  But the principle remains the same.  Your turnover directly governs your ability to spend.  What each team does with it is their own business.  

So why quote Cardiff's turnover for a period that saw them have a capped wage spend?

Erm because they imposed the cap on themselves. It wasn't based on regulation or guidelines from other governing bodies.

It would be like someone giving you £100 to buy their shopping and you deciding to only spend £30 on food for them. The choice was your own and had nothing to do with the unions or revenues they receive.

So do I think the regions need to be accountable? Yes. You cant have a funded system where regions do not produce either players or provide success. Now like I said some are actually doing both those things. Some are not.

The professional teams in Wales gain a small boost in finances that allow them stay alive and keep some of the players that they have, and now some people want them to consistently beat teams with far higher budgets every week or have questions asked. Only in Wales.

Welsh Magician wrote:The professional teams in Wales gain a small boost in finances that allow them stay alive and keep some of the players that they have, and now some people want them to consistently beat teams with far higher budgets every week or have questions asked. Only in Wales.

Exactly.

Welshmushroom wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

But it does.  Your ability to fund your team directly is impacted by your funding/income.  Granted Welsh Regions capped themselves in terms of the ratio of wages to turnover.  But the principle remains the same.  Your turnover directly governs your ability to spend.  What each team does with it is their own business.  

So why quote Cardiff's turnover for a period that saw them have a capped wage spend?

Erm because they imposed the cap on themselves.  It wasn't based on regulation or guidelines from other governing bodies.

It would be like someone giving you £100 to buy their shopping and you deciding to only spend £30 on food for them.  The choice was your own and had nothing to do with the unions or revenues they receive.  

So do I think the regions need to be accountable? Yes. You cant have a funded system where regions do not produce either players or provide success.  Now like I said some are actually doing both those things.  Some are not.  

We all want Welsh regions to get more income. I just don't understand the relevance to Cardiff's turnover and their wage spend. It' not as if Peter Pies is taking £2m out of Cardiff Blues a year while his squad rots.

The Welsh regions are in exactly the same position this coming season as they were last season squad wise, yet some people expect three of them to come in the top 6?

WTF?

Welsh Magician wrote:The professional teams in Wales gain a small boost in finances that allow them stay alive and keep some of the players that they have, and now some people want them to consistently beat teams with far higher budgets every week or have questions asked. Only in Wales.

Yep and also Cardiff have already begun to answer questions by employing a new head coach who'll be allowed to make the rugby decisions without any meddling from above (apparently). So no more Two Dads or Hensons hopefully. We'll see.

When the majority of internationals are based at one (Ospreys) or two regional teams then questions were rightly asked. How that old Ospreys team never conquered Europe I'll never know, but they did mostly play rather gash. Weird as they used to play a lot better for their country.

The Saint wrote:When the majority of internationals are based at one (Ospreys) or two regional teams then questions were rightly asked. How that old Ospreys team never conquered Europe I'll never know, but they did mostly play rather gash. Weird as they used to play a lot better for their country.

13 Os plus a Llanelli Scarlet and a Nugget.
What a game it was... First win at HQ for 20 years too.
England 19-26 Wales
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7215056.stm

Welsh Magician wrote:The professional teams in Wales gain a small boost in finances that allow them stay alive and keep some of the players that they have, and now some people want them to consistently beat teams with far higher budgets every week or have questions asked. Only in Wales.

Not some. One. Yet everybody else is wrong, not him.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

The Saint wrote:When the majority of internationals are based at one (Ospreys) or two regional teams then questions were rightly asked. How that old Ospreys team never conquered Europe I'll never know, but they did mostly play rather gash. Weird as they used to play a lot better for their country.

13 Os plus a Llanelli Scarlet and a Nugget.
What a game it was... First win at HQ for 20 years too.
England 19-26 Wales
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7215056.stm

I was there. Great day. The Saes were speechless at full time.

The Ospreys held that team of internationals for some years and it was supplemented by guys like Marshall, Bowe, Collins, Hollah, Tiatia... All pretty awesome players but lacked the top two inches for some odd reason. I doubt we'll see a star-studded team like that in Wales for a long time.

The Saint wrote:The Ospreys held that team of internationals for some years and it was supplemented by guys like Marshall, Bowe, Collins, Hollah, Tiatia... All pretty awesome players but lacked the top two inches for some odd reason. I doubt we'll see a star-studded team like that in Wales for a long time.

Indeed. Ireland have got them. Wales hasn't. Yet some people think the pro teams in Wales should be able to compete with them on a regular basis. Very, very odd.