What can we do about ISIS ???

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:How can you annihilate ISIS....They breed like ants.

Scottrf wrote:'They' are a number of merged organisations, mainly counter insurgency groups formed during the invasion of Iraq as offshoots of Al Qaida led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. They expanded into Syria to form ISIL/ISIS. The problem is that while a lot of the command structure is known, the militants are less so, and the support network is huge, expanding to some of our 'allies' in the region.

Nore Staat wrote:So what happens: France bombs Syria harder - but who exactly is it bombing?  When people say kill them all - who are "them" and how do we distinguish them from "not them".  We get extensive coverage of the Parisian attack, but virtually no media coverage of exactly what the French and others are actually bombing in Syria and Iraq nor its aftermath, apart from a few selective grainy images of buildings, tents, lorries being blown up with the words: we have just blown up evil and terror.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Look this isn't difficult, rather like Israel and Palestine this is a struggle of cultures and socio political injustice coupled with years of corporate greed and ridiculous US foreign policy. We are reaping what we have sown.

I suggest anyone who wants a lesson in de escalation watches the Gatekeepers on netflix

Until we realize that revenge begets revenge and stop the boobie for tat bombing then what do you expect on our streets?

Would you sit back if you had suffered years of exploitation? Of watching your homes destroyed and your religion vilified? Young ISIS fighters are now born into an era of hate, into a hard wired loathing of the west and all it stands for.

That doesn't justify their actions, they are a disgrace to humanity, but while states answer their tyranny with more bombs then they will continue to fight, as I would, just categorically not the way they are doing it

It's ideology...........If you read about Isis their aims are for the world to become a caliphate....

If it's about revenge...WHY PICK ON FRANCE ???.  They weren't in Iraq ???......

Portugal, Spain, Holland, Hungary, Norway, Denmark, Slovakia, Ukraine, Czech rep all were...

They are in Europe why not pick on them...???

It's just garbage........

kingraf wrote:I offer no solutions. ISIS is strong, the East is so fragmented. The problem with ISIS is that it's not so much a group as it is a movement. With groups, you can eliminate the heads, and they tend to collapse underneath themselves. With ISIS, you can kill as much of their foot soldiers as you want, but disenfranchised Muslim youths will remain seduced by the thought of Jihad. And unlike, say the Viet Cong, ISIS are capable getting members worldwide, for obvious reasons. No solutions, just problems.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Look this isn't difficult, rather like Israel and Palestine this is a struggle of cultures and socio political injustice coupled with years of corporate greed and ridiculous US foreign policy. We are reaping what we have sown.

I suggest anyone who wants a lesson in de escalation watches the Gatekeepers on netflix

Until we realize that revenge begets revenge and stop the boobie for tat bombing then what do you expect on our streets?

Would you sit back if you had suffered years of exploitation? Of watching your homes destroyed and your religion vilified? Young ISIS fighters are now born into an era of hate, into a hard wired loathing of the west and all it stands for.

That doesn't justify their actions, they are a disgrace to humanity, but while states answer their tyranny with more bombs then they will continue to fight, as I would, just categorically not the way they are doing it

It's ideology...........If you read about Isis their aims are for the world to become a caliphate....

If it's about revenge...WHY PICK ON FRANCE ???.  They weren't in Iraq ???......

Portugal, Spain, Holland, Hungary, Norway, Denmark, Slovakia, Ukraine, Czech rep all were...

They are in Europe why not pick on them...???

It's just garbage........

Everyone seems to have a stake in Syria.

Maybe this has missed you but during the begenning of the troubles in Syria France flooded that nation with Arms and funding that we was told was for the ''moderate'' groups who were fighting Assad. These weapons have found there way to ISIS. We now know that these so called moderates did not exist they are all so called Jihadists and you can bet your bottom dollar that France and the other parties like the west, SA, Qatar, and Turkey all knew who they were arming, training and funding.

France have been knee deep in Syria long before the attacks in January and last week. This policy of flooding these countries with weapons can only lead to war and will distablize the region. This is what I call sophisticated terrorism.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote: Everyone seems to have a stake in Syria.

... during the begenning of the troubles in Syria France flooded that nation with Arms and funding that we was told was for the ''moderate'' groups who were fighting Assad. These weapons have found there way to ISIS. We now know that these so called moderates did not exist they are all so called Jihadists and you can bet your bottom dollar that France and the other parties like the west, SA, Qatar, and Turkey all knew who they were arming, training and funding.

France have been knee deep in Syria long before the attacks in January and last week. This policy of flooding these countries with weapons can only lead to war and will distablize the region. This is what I call sophisticated terrorism.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The British sold weapons to him..

Things change...We are where we are..

Scottrf wrote:And of course Mr. Osbourne's friend Rothschild (Genel energy) is involved in oil deals with ISIS, operating with permission of the British government. No conflict of interest though of course.

Scottrf wrote:http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/uk-us-turn-blind-eye-islamic-state-oil-sales-553879014

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Look this isn't difficult, rather like Israel and Palestine this is a struggle of cultures and socio political injustice coupled with years of corporate greed and ridiculous US foreign policy. We are reaping what we have sown.

I suggest anyone who wants a lesson in de escalation watches the Gatekeepers on netflix

Until we realize that revenge begets revenge and stop the boobie for tat bombing then what do you expect on our streets?

Would you sit back if you had suffered years of exploitation? Of watching your homes destroyed and your religion vilified? Young ISIS fighters are now born into an era of hate, into a hard wired loathing of the west and all it stands for.

That doesn't justify their actions, they are a disgrace to humanity, but while states answer their tyranny with more bombs then they will continue to fight, as I would, just categorically not the way they are doing it

It's ideology...........If you read about Isis their aims are for the world to become a caliphate....

If it's about revenge...WHY PICK ON FRANCE ???.  They weren't in Iraq ???......

Portugal, Spain, Holland, Hungary, Norway, Denmark, Slovakia, Ukraine, Czech rep all were...

They are in Europe why not pick on them...???

It's just garbage........

Gwlad wrote:
The ideology you refer to is borne out of years of oppressive exploitative foreign policy in the west; Isis dont discriminate between western countries to the extent you think because as you correctly point out, their proposed caliphate is the antithesis of ALL western nations. We are all their enemy.

Why France? You obviously aren't aware of the Imperial history of France in North Africa. Arguably Algeria was the precursor of extremism on North Africa and France has a terrible history there.

France is a ridiculously soft G7 target with a significant Moslem population and is a high profile Western state. Paris, the greatest city in western Europe, just got f$$ked.

ISIS want to strike at the heart of western civilization and destroy our ideology; they aren't interested in the Czech republic or countries of that ilk. Think the press care about what happens there, did they care  about Beirut?

This is shop window terrorism, no point doing it if no one is looking. And were it not in such a beautiful city that has been largely peaceful for 65 years, then it would not have us all reeling today.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Gwlad wrote:
The ideology you refer to is borne out of years of oppressive exploitative foreign policy in the west; Isis dont discriminate between western countries to the extent you think because as you correctly point out, their proposed caliphate is the antithesis of ALL western nations. We are all their enemy.

Why France? You obviously aren't aware of the Imperial history of France in North Africa. Arguably Algeria was the precursor of extremism on North Africa and France has a terrible history there.

France is a ridiculously soft G7 target with a significant Moslem population and is a high profile Western state. Paris, the greatest city in western Europe, just got f$$ked.

ISIS want to strike at the heart of western civilization and destroy our ideology; they aren't interested in the Czech republic or countries of that ilk. Think the press care about what happens there, did they care  about Beirut?

This is shop window terrorism, no point doing it if no one is looking. And were it not in such a beautiful city that has been largely peaceful for 65 years, then it would not have us all reeling today.

Interesting post although Algeria etc is just an excuse. There are hundreds of thousands of Muslims in France who may well be better off than if they'd stayed in Algeria, but I guess that's missed. France may have done some things they'd rather forget there 60 odd years back, but as your mother might have said, "Two wrongs don't make a right". So what if Paris just got mullered? It isn't going to suddenly disappear, it's not going to change the fact that Daesh and their ilk are scum and it isn't going to change the "West's" ideological approaches.
It's obviously all the "West's" fault though so that's OK. At least we've had an Enlightenment within the last, what, 500 years - most of the Muslim world hasn't even contemplated that sort of philosophical epiphany yet and often actively refuses to engage in anything approaching it.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Gwlad wrote:
The ideology you refer to is borne out of years of oppressive exploitative foreign policy in the west; Isis dont discriminate between western countries to the extent you think because as you correctly point out, their proposed caliphate is the antithesis of ALL western nations. We are all their enemy.

Why France? You obviously aren't aware of the Imperial history of France in North Africa. Arguably Algeria was the precursor of extremism on North Africa and France has a terrible history there.

France is a ridiculously soft G7 target with a significant Moslem population and is a high profile Western state. Paris, the greatest city in western Europe, just got f$$ked.

ISIS want to strike at the heart of western civilization and destroy our ideology; they aren't interested in the Czech republic or countries of that ilk. Think the press care about what happens there, did they care  about Beirut?

This is shop window terrorism, no point doing it if no one is looking. And were it not in such a beautiful city that has been largely peaceful for 65 years, then it would not have us all reeling today.

Interesting post although Algeria etc is just an excuse. There are hundreds of thousands of Muslims in France who may well be better off than if they'd stayed in Algeria, but I guess that's missed. France may have done some things they'd rather forget there 60 odd years back, but as your mother might have said, "Two wrongs don't make a right". So what if Paris just got mullered? It isn't going to suddenly disappear, it's not going to change the fact that Daesh and their ilk are scum and it isn't going to change the "West's" ideological approaches.
It's obviously all the "West's" fault though so that's OK. At least we've had an Enlightenment within the last, what, 500 years - most of the Muslim world hasn't even contemplated that sort of philosophical epiphany yet and often actively refuses to engage in anything approaching it.

This is how ignorant some morons are.

When the Moors invaded Spain they brought science and the arts with them while the rest of Europe were freezing their nuts off in their cold a55 caves. The only reason Europe was able to take the upperhand as it were in the battle for supremacy was down to SLAVERY. Without the forced free labour you would all be typing in Arabic right now.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Gwlad wrote:
The ideology you refer to is borne out of years of oppressive exploitative foreign policy in the west; Isis dont discriminate between western countries to the extent you think because as you correctly point out, their proposed caliphate is the antithesis of ALL western nations. We are all their enemy.

Why France? You obviously aren't aware of the Imperial history of France in North Africa. Arguably Algeria was the precursor of extremism on North Africa and France has a terrible history there.

France is a ridiculously soft G7 target with a significant Moslem population and is a high profile Western state. Paris, the greatest city in western Europe, just got f$$ked.

ISIS want to strike at the heart of western civilization and destroy our ideology; they aren't interested in the Czech republic or countries of that ilk. Think the press care about what happens there, did they care  about Beirut?

This is shop window terrorism, no point doing it if no one is looking. And were it not in such a beautiful city that has been largely peaceful for 65 years, then it would not have us all reeling today.

Interesting post although Algeria etc is just an excuse. There are hundreds of thousands of Muslims in France who may well be better off than if they'd stayed in Algeria, but I guess that's missed. France may have done some things they'd rather forget there 60 odd years back, but as your mother might have said, "Two wrongs don't make a right". So what if Paris just got mullered? It isn't going to suddenly disappear, it's not going to change the fact that Daesh and their ilk are scum and it isn't going to change the "West's" ideological approaches.
It's obviously all the "West's" fault though so that's OK. At least we've had an Enlightenment within the last, what, 500 years - most of the Muslim world hasn't even contemplated that sort of philosophical epiphany yet and often actively refuses to engage in anything approaching it.

This is how ignorant some morons are.

When the Moors invaded Spain they brought science and the arts with them while the rest of Europe were freezing their nuts off in their cold a55 caves. The only reason Europe was able to take the upperhand as it were in the battle for supremacy was down to SLAVERY. Without the forced free labour you would all be typing in Arabic right now.

كنت الديك سخيف حقا .

ONETWOFOREVER wrote: ...

This is how ignorant some morons are.

When the Moors invaded Spain they brought science and the arts with them while the rest of Europe were freezing their nuts off in their cold a55 caves. The only reason Europe was able to take the upperhand as it were in the battle for supremacy was down to SLAVERY. Without the forced free labour you would all be typing in Arabic right now.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

When the Moors invaded Spain they brought science and the arts with them while the rest of Europe were freezing their nuts off in their cold a55 caves. The only reason Europe was able to take the upperhand as it were in the battle for supremacy was down to SLAVERY. Without the forced free labour you would all be typing in Arabic right now.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Gwlad wrote:
The ideology you refer to is borne out of years of oppressive exploitative foreign policy in the west; Isis dont discriminate between western countries to the extent you think because as you correctly point out, their proposed caliphate is the antithesis of ALL western nations. We are all their enemy.

Why France? You obviously aren't aware of the Imperial history of France in North Africa. Arguably Algeria was the precursor of extremism on North Africa and France has a terrible history there.

France is a ridiculously soft G7 target with a significant Moslem population and is a high profile Western state. Paris, the greatest city in western Europe, just got f$$ked.

ISIS want to strike at the heart of western civilization and destroy our ideology; they aren't interested in the Czech republic or countries of that ilk. Think the press care about what happens there, did they care  about Beirut?

This is shop window terrorism, no point doing it if no one is looking. And were it not in such a beautiful city that has been largely peaceful for 65 years, then it would not have us all reeling today.

Interesting post although Algeria etc is just an excuse. There are hundreds of thousands of Muslims in France who may well be better off than if they'd stayed in Algeria, but I guess that's missed. France may have done some things they'd rather forget there 60 odd years back, but as your mother might have said, "Two wrongs don't make a right". So what if Paris just got mullered? It isn't going to suddenly disappear, it's not going to change the fact that Daesh and their ilk are scum and it isn't going to change the "West's" ideological approaches.
It's obviously all the "West's" fault though so that's OK. At least we've had an Enlightenment within the last, what, 500 years - most of the Muslim world hasn't even contemplated that sort of philosophical epiphany yet and often actively refuses to engage in anything approaching it.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Thank goodness we have got arms....

Try stopping these b**tards with stones..

navyblueshorts wrote:

Gwlad wrote:
The ideology you refer to is borne out of years of oppressive exploitative foreign policy in the west; Isis dont discriminate between western countries to the extent you think because as you correctly point out, their proposed caliphate is the antithesis of ALL western nations. We are all their enemy.

Why France? You obviously aren't aware of the Imperial history of France in North Africa. Arguably Algeria was the precursor of extremism on North Africa and France has a terrible history there.

France is a ridiculously soft G7 target with a significant Moslem population and is a high profile Western state. Paris, the greatest city in western Europe, just got f$$ked.

ISIS want to strike at the heart of western civilization and destroy our ideology; they aren't interested in the Czech republic or countries of that ilk. Think the press care about what happens there, did they care  about Beirut?

This is shop window terrorism, no point doing it if no one is looking. And were it not in such a beautiful city that has been largely peaceful for 65 years, then it would not have us all reeling today.

Interesting post although Algeria etc is just an excuse. There are hundreds of thousands of Muslims in France who may well be better off than if they'd stayed in Algeria, but I guess that's missed. France may have done some things they'd rather forget there 60 odd years back, but as your mother might have said, "Two wrongs don't make a right". So what if Paris just got mullered? It isn't going to suddenly disappear, it's not going to change the fact that Daesh and their ilk are scum and it isn't going to change the "West's" ideological approaches.
It's obviously all the "West's" fault though so that's OK. At least we've had an Enlightenment within the last, what, 500 years - most of the Muslim world hasn't even contemplated that sort of philosophical epiphany yet and often actively refuses to engage in anything approaching it.

kingraf wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Gwlad wrote:
The ideology you refer to is borne out of years of oppressive exploitative foreign policy in the west; Isis dont discriminate between western countries to the extent you think because as you correctly point out, their proposed caliphate is the antithesis of ALL western nations. We are all their enemy.

Why France? You obviously aren't aware of the Imperial history of France in North Africa. Arguably Algeria was the precursor of extremism on North Africa and France has a terrible history there.

France is a ridiculously soft G7 target with a significant Moslem population and is a high profile Western state. Paris, the greatest city in western Europe, just got f$$ked.

ISIS want to strike at the heart of western civilization and destroy our ideology; they aren't interested in the Czech republic or countries of that ilk. Think the press care about what happens there, did they care  about Beirut?

This is shop window terrorism, no point doing it if no one is looking. And were it not in such a beautiful city that has been largely peaceful for 65 years, then it would not have us all reeling today.

Interesting post although Algeria etc is just an excuse. There are hundreds of thousands of Muslims in France who may well be better off than if they'd stayed in Algeria, but I guess that's missed. France may have done some things they'd rather forget there 60 odd years back, but as your mother might have said, "Two wrongs don't make a right". So what if Paris just got mullered? It isn't going to suddenly disappear, it's not going to change the fact that Daesh and their ilk are scum and it isn't going to change the "West's" ideological approaches.
It's obviously all the "West's" fault though so that's OK. At least we've had an Enlightenment within the last, what, 500 years - most of the Muslim world hasn't even contemplated that sort of philosophical epiphany yet and often actively refuses to engage in anything approaching it.

Guess raaping Algerian women and beheading and castrating their men while sticking their di.cks in their mouth is a little too advanced for the Muslims

rick_dagless wrote:Whereas I bet you have real negative feelings towards terrorism...

So my point stands up

DAVE wrote:Like I said, had they committed these atrocities when U2 were playing I'd be less inclined to be judgmental. As it is, they've sh!t in their own cornflakes as far as I'm concerned so, yes, Sally James (from TISWAS) is/was (hahahaaaaa) better than terrorism

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:This is how ignorant some morons are.

When the Moors invaded Spain they brought science and the arts with them while the rest of Europe were freezing their nuts off in their cold a55 caves. The only reason Europe was able to take the upperhand as it were in the battle for supremacy was down to SLAVERY. Without the forced free labour you would all be typing in Arabic right now.

Gwlad wrote:Enlightenment?

You mean like two World Wars and the holocaust?  A world economy underpinned by arms trading which requires wars to ill order books.

Yep we sure are enlightened.

kingraf wrote:Guess raaping Algerian women and beheading and castrating their men while sticking their di.cks in their mouth is a little too advanced for the Muslims

navyblueshorts wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:This is how ignorant some morons are.

When the Moors invaded Spain they brought science and the arts with them while the rest of Europe were freezing their nuts off in their cold a55 caves. The only reason Europe was able to take the upperhand as it were in the battle for supremacy was down to SLAVERY. Without the forced free labour you would all be typing in Arabic right now.

:yawn: I know all that stuff about science and the arts although I think the Moors did well enough with slavery themselves. I'd be interested though in how the thinking has gone so backward in the last several hundreds of years. What is it with that? Why is it that discussion and challenge to Islamic dogma is so frowned upon throughout the Islamic world? Please 'enlighten' me...

Gwlad wrote:Enlightenment?

You mean like two World Wars and the holocaust?  A world economy underpinned by arms trading which requires wars to ill order books.

Yep we sure are enlightened.

WTF have two World Wars and a holocaust got to do with the Enlightenment?
FWIW, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment. Just so we're clear on what I'm referring to.

kingraf wrote:Guess raaping Algerian women and beheading and castrating their men while sticking their di.cks in their mouth is a little too advanced for the Muslims

Huh? What's that got to do with the Enlightenment? In any case, that's the justification for butchery of innocents today? Something from ~70 years ago? Seriously?? This is by people who weren't even born then? By people who're allowed to travel freely to and leave freely from the country they carry out their butchery in? This would be the same people that're allowed to live and work in a country not of their birth? Raise a family there? Become naturalised French maybe? This would be the same people who're allowed to freely practise their own religion in the adopted country they've committed their atrocity in? A more pathetic justification for butchery, it's hard to imagine.

This is all pretty comic really. The bleeding heart liberals can't lose. If "the West" left the middle east to burn, that would be the "West's" fault. If the "West" intervened, in any way at all, then any outcome that's not Utopian would be the "West's" fault as well. Must be nice to have one's head so far up one's arse.

We have misunderstood the nature of the Islamic State in at least two ways. First, we tend to see jihadism as monolithic, and to apply the logic of al‑Qaeda to an organization that has decisively eclipsed it. The Islamic State supporters I spoke with still refer to Osama bin Laden as “Sheikh Osama,” a title of honor. But jihadism has evolved since al-Qaeda’s heyday, from about 1998 to 2003, and many jihadists disdain the group’s priorities and current leadership.

We are misled in a second way, by a well-intentioned but dishonest campaign to deny the Islamic State’s medieval religious nature. Peter Bergen, who produced the first interview with bin Laden in 1997, titled his first book Holy War, Inc. in part to acknowledge bin Laden as a creature of the modern secular world. Bin Laden corporatized terror and franchised it out. He requested specific political concessions, such as the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Saudi Arabia. His foot soldiers navigated the modern world confidently. On Mohamed Atta’s last full day of life, he shopped at Walmart and ate dinner at Pizza Hut.

There is a temptation to rehearse this observation—that jihadists are modern secular people, with modern political concerns, wearing medieval religious disguise—and make it fit the Islamic State. In fact, much of what the group does looks nonsensical except in light of a sincere, carefully considered commitment to returning civilization to a seventh-century legal environment, and ultimately to bringing about the apocalypse.


The most-articulate spokesmen for that position are the Islamic State’s officials and supporters themselves. They refer derisively to “moderns.” In conversation, they insist that they will not—cannot—waver from governing precepts that were embedded in Islam by the Prophet Muhammad and his earliest followers. They often speak in codes and allusions that sound odd or old-fashioned to non-Muslims, but refer to specific traditions and texts of early Islam.

To take one example: In September, Sheikh Abu Muhammad al-Adnani, the Islamic State’s chief spokesman, called on Muslims in Western countries such as France and Canada to find an infidel and “smash his head with a rock,” poison him, run him over with a car, or “destroy his crops.” To Western ears, the biblical-sounding punishments—the stoning and crop destruction—juxtaposed strangely with his more modern-sounding call to vehicular homicide. (As if to show that he could terrorize by imagery alone, Adnani also referred to Secretary of State John Kerry as an “uncircumcised geezer.”)

But Adnani was not merely talking trash. His speech was laced with theological and legal discussion, and his exhortation to attack crops directly echoed orders from Muhammad to leave well water and crops alone—unless the armies of Islam were in a defensive position, in which case Muslims in the lands of kuffar, or infidels, should be unmerciful, and poison away.


The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic. Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Middle East and Europe. But the religion preached by its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learned interpretations of Islam.

Virtually every major decision and law promulgated by the Islamic State adheres to what it calls, in its press and pronouncements, and on its billboards, license plates, stationery, and coins, “the Prophetic methodology,” which means following the prophecy and example of Muhammad, in punctilious detail. Muslims can reject the Islamic State; nearly all do. But pretending that it isn’t actually a religious, millenarian group, with theology that must be understood to be combatted, has already led the United States to underestimate it and back foolish schemes to counter it. We’ll need to get acquainted with the Islamic State’s intellectual genealogy if we are to react in a way that will not strengthen it, but instead help it self-immolate in its own excessive zeal.

kingraf wrote:Its quite simple. Any time the French are in Africa they fu.ck up. Generally badly. You then act shocked when there are eight people who are angry enough at this history

You then seem to blame the problem on the Muslim East not having reached "enlightenment" in the past 500 years which I found amusing given the fact that in five years the West once managed to wipe out 20 million people. Or that as recently as a decade ago when the West backed an invasion to the WRONG country and cost up to over a million lives.

This is only the "West's" fault in the sense that in the minds of these cretins, we're infidels and therefore deserve to die.