What can we do about ISIS ???

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:38 pm

First topic message reminder :

Not interested in the historical blame game...........We have a very big problem at the moment as the atrocity over the weekend shows.........

I'm at a loss at what to do about iSIS........

Personally think the horse has bolted....

Tunisia can happen anywhere at anytime...

by ONETWOFOREVER Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:36 am

seanmichaels wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Ruskies have been pushing their luck for a long while though, and this was always the risk of unco-ordinated airstrikes being launched.

Hopefully it's sensibly resolved - I think Russia has already offered an 'out' to Turkey by suggesting it was a sufface-to-air missle (i.e. terrorist fire) that brought the plane down.

Turkey has been part of the effort to support ISIS, Russia along with Iran supports Assad who Turkey along with Saudi Arabia, Israel and the US, UK, and France want out.

but Hell is big enough for all.

I'm rolling thunder pouring rain
I'm coming on like a hurricane
My lightning's flashing across the sky
You're only young but you're gonna die
I won't take no prisoners won't spare no lives
Nobody's putting up a fight
I got my bell I'm gonna take you to hell
I'm gonna get ya satan get ya

One of Cliff Richards finest work IMO

GREAT ALBUM

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:52 am

You learn something new everyday...............

Apparently even though we were struggling to get out of the great depression we deliberately let Japan have a chance at destroying most of our pacific fleet so we could get into the war....

Yep the President who was so agonized over the poverty of us his fellow men and brought in the the 3 R's (new deal)..... was happy to see good honest family men destroyed at Pearl harbor....

Just like Bush was behind the twin towers.....

Yep us American boys are savages.....Everything is our fault..

Like I said we had intel confirmed by the British that the Japs were eyeing up Hawaii...We just didn't think they would have the audacity or balls to carry it out..

by ONETWOFOREVER Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:03 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You learn something new everyday...............

Apparently even though we were struggling to get out of the great depression we deliberately let Japan have a chance at destroying most of our pacific fleet so we could get into the war....

Yep the President who was so agonized over the poverty of us his fellow men and brought in the the 3 R's (new deal)..... was happy to see good honest family men destroyed at Pearl harbor....

Just like Bush was behind the twin towers.....

Yep us American boys are savages.....Everything is our fault..

Like I said we had intel confirmed by the British that the Japs were eyeing up Hawaii...We just didn't think they would have the audacity or balls to carry it out..

Bush was not behind the twin towers and you know that the man could not even eat a pretzal properly let alone pull off the biggest terror attack ever.

Apart from that I think you must be deluded. The US policy in Syria has been completly reckless. Get real with yourself the US has armed and supported known Islamic extremists in Syria since day 1. They have played a part in this whole mess just admit it and move on.

by kingraf Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:11 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Ruskies have been pushing their luck for a long while though, and this was always the risk of unco-ordinated airstrikes being launched.

Hopefully it's sensibly resolved - I think Russia has already offered an 'out' to Turkey by suggesting it was a sufface-to-air missle (i.e. terrorist fire) that brought the plane down.

Ja you can certainly see where Turkey is from, and whether they support ISIS or not, you'd think a warplane above their citizens' heads was only gonna end one way. Still it leaves a very dangerous precipice, as Turkey (probably) aren't gonna change their stance on the war, while Russia aren't going to stop sending the heavy artillery that way.

by Scottrf Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:14 pm

Russia kept flopping their balls out on to the table, it was inevitable someone was going to chop one off.

by Derbymanc Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:16 pm

We have all played apart in this whole mess to be honest 1/2, for the nations involved to constantly go on about understanding other cultures etc, we haven't done a great job understanding how things work differently.

Still no idea what to do, although am starting to think we should just let them get on with it as anything we do is gonna be twisted into a recruiting tool

by ONETWOFOREVER Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:33 pm

Derbymanc wrote:We have all played apart in this whole mess to be honest 1/2, for the nations involved to constantly go on about understanding other cultures etc, we haven't done a great job understanding how things work differently.

Still no idea what to do, although am starting to think we should just let them get on with it as anything we do is gonna be twisted into a recruiting tool

I say we all keep our humanity. Black, White, Asian, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddist, rich, poor, and not let those who have an interest in this whole game of war try to appeal to the worst part of ourselves because war means money for them.

Lets not be fooled. Our media is scum.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:34 pm

Considering the majority of muslims hate these people like we do....

I think we are understanding enough...

by kingraf Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:34 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:We have all played apart in this whole mess to be honest 1/2, for the nations involved to constantly go on about understanding other cultures etc, we haven't done a great job understanding how things work differently.

Still no idea what to do, although am starting to think we should just let them get on with it as anything we do is gonna be twisted into a recruiting tool

I say we all keep our humanity. Black, White, Asian, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddist, rich, poor, and not let those who have an interest in this whole game of war try to appeal to the worst part of ourselves because war means money for them.

Lets not be fooled. Our media is scum.

Yeah but the way Putin is going about it is also pretty bad ass

by **Pr4wn** Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:03 pm

Anyone read Frankie Boyle's column in the Guardian? Best piece of writing on this subject I've seen so far.

by Scottrf Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:19 pm

I'm sure it's considered and balanced.

by **Pr4wn** Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:21 pm

As is your opinion, particularly as you haven't actually bloody read it.

by Scottrf Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:22 pm

Chill out...

by Hammersmith harrier Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:26 pm

I think going by Putin's statements he might be a little bit p1ssed off.

by **seanmichaels** Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:27 pm

I make Putin spot on with these comments:

This event is beyond the normal framework of fighting against terrorism. Of course our military is doing heroic work against terrorism... But the loss today is a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists. I can’t describe it in any other way. Our aircraft was downed over the territory of Syria, using air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16. It fell on the Syrian territory 4km from Turkey.

Neither our pilots nor our jet threatened the territory of Turkey. This is obvious. They are fighting terrorists in the northern areas around Latakia, where militants are located, mainly people who originated in Russia, and they were pursuing their direct duty, to make sure these people do not return to Russia. These are people who are clearly international terrorists.

Taking into account that we signed an agreement on deconflicting with the US, and as we know Turkey was among the ones that has joined the US coalition. Since Isis has such huge resources of hundreds of millions and billions of dollars coming from illicit oil sales, and they are protected by the armed forces of other states, then it’s clear why they are so brazen, why they are killing people, why they are carrying out terrorist attacks throughout the world including in the heart of Europe.

We will analyse everything, and today’s tragic event will have significant consequences, including for Russia-Turkish relations. We have always treated Turkey as a friendly state. I don’t know who was interested in what happened today, certainly not us. And instead of immediately getting in contact with us, as far as we know, the Turkish side immediately turned to their partners from Nato to discuss this incident, as if we shot down their plane and not they ours.

by Scottrf Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:37 pm

Pr4wn wrote:As is your opinion, particularly as you haven't actually bloody read it.

Good read to be fair.

by **seanmichaels** Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:52 pm

Bit overly leftie for me.

by Scottrf Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:59 pm

seanmichaels wrote:Bit overly leftie for me.

So are ISIS.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:06 pm

seanmichaels wrote:I make Putin spot on with these comments:

This event is beyond the normal framework of fighting against terrorism. Of course our military is doing heroic work against terrorism... But the loss today is a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists. I can’t describe it in any other way. Our aircraft was downed over the territory of Syria, using air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16. It fell on the Syrian territory 4km from Turkey.

Neither our pilots nor our jet threatened the territory of Turkey. This is obvious. They are fighting terrorists in the northern areas around Latakia, where militants are located, mainly people who originated in Russia, and they were pursuing their direct duty, to make sure these people do not return to Russia. These are people who are clearly international terrorists.

Taking into account that we signed an agreement on deconflicting with the US, and as we know Turkey was among the ones that has joined the US coalition. Since Isis has such huge resources of hundreds of millions and billions of dollars coming from illicit oil sales, and they are protected by the armed forces of other states, then it’s clear why they are so brazen, why they are killing people, why they are carrying out terrorist attacks throughout the world including in the heart of Europe.

We will analyse everything, and today’s tragic event will have significant consequences, including for Russia-Turkish relations. We have always treated Turkey as a friendly state. I don’t know who was interested in what happened today, certainly not us. And instead of immediately getting in contact with us, as far as we know, the Turkish side immediately turned to their partners from Nato to discuss this incident, as if we shot down their plane and not they ours.

Huh?? What the Hell is he on about? He won't do anything to Turkey, especially if the Turks have decent evidence it was overflying their territory - even if it wasn't, this sort of thing was bound to happen at some point. It's not like Turkey haven't warned against this. Putin isn't going to precipitate WW3 because one of his jets was shot down - he's just making some public noise about it to sound tough for the homeland.
He cites it crashing 4km from the Syrian-Turkish border as if that somehow supports his thesis, which is clearly stupid. It was allegedly ~18,000 feet up when hit but Putin somehow thinks it peculiar it might have travelled some way before hitting the ground.
To be honest, I wouldn't believe Putin if he told me the sun was going to rise tomorrow.

by **seanmichaels** Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:19 pm

Just seen a video of the 'friendly' rebels gathered round the dead pilot. Savages.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:27 pm

Ever noticed how the ring leaders never seem willing to give their lives up for Allah ??

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:40 pm

seanmichaels wrote:Just seen a video of the 'friendly' rebels gathered round the dead pilot. Savages.

Hardly an issue is it? They didn't even shoot them down. Not that dissimilar to the 'savages' in the U.K., for example, wanting to rubberneck at some mass pileup on the other carriageway of a motorway. Or even those taking photos/video of the aftermath of the recent Paris attacks.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ever noticed how the ring leaders never seem willing to give their lives up for Allah ??

Yep. Not stupid are they?

by **seanmichaels** Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:46 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
seanmichaels wrote:Just seen a video of the 'friendly' rebels gathered round the dead pilot. Savages.
Hardly an issue is it? They didn't even shoot them down. Not that dissimilar to the 'savages' in the U.K., for example, wanting to rubberneck at some mass pileup on the other carriageway of a motorway. Or even those taking photos/video of the aftermath of the recent Paris attacks.

Yeah but they are not dancing / cheering and shouting admiral akbar

by **Pr4wn** Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:53 pm

From what I understand, after a Turkish jet was shot down over Syria a couple of years ago, Turkey agreed - along with NATO - that its sovereign airspace would stretch five KM or miles, can't remember which, into Syria. This is obviously bull turd of the highest order.

It appears that this Russian jet, which crashed 4km into Syria was in this "zone" and was shot down.

In my opinion, Turkey is just taking advantage of its position as a NATO member to further its own interests, fighting the PKK.

by ONETWOFOREVER Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:58 pm

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"

by **seanmichaels** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:09 pm

Isn't it a war crime to shoot dead ejected pilots?

by **seanmichaels** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:11 pm

Attacks on parachutists, in term of the law of war, is when pilots, aircrews, and/or passengers are attacked while descending by parachutes from disabled aircraft during times of war. This practice is considered by most militaries around the world to be inhumane, barbaric, and unchivalrous, that it is unnecessary killing (i.e., they would eventually become prisoners of war if parachuted over enemy territory), that it is contrary to fair play, and that military pilots have to be held to a higher standard. Attacking persons parachuting from an aircraft in distress is a war crime under Protocol I in addition to the 1949 Geneva Conventions. However, it is not prohibited under this Protocol to open fire on airborne troops who are descending by parachutes, even if their aircraft is in distress.

by Scottrf Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:13 pm

They were shot?!

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:13 pm

Pr4wn wrote:From what I understand, after a Turkish jet was shot down over Syria a couple of years ago, Turkey agreed - along with NATO - that its sovereign airspace would stretch five KM or miles, can't remember which, into Syria. This is obviously bull turd of the highest order.

It appears that this Russian jet, which crashed 4km into Syria was in this "zone" and was shot down.

In my opinion, Turkey is just taking advantage of its position as a NATO member to further its own interests, fighting the PKK.

Huh? You're an expert and have access to radar etc that would support your thesis? It's not "obviously" Turkish BS at all.
This was always going to happen. Whether it was a Russian plane, or Turkish, or American or whatever. Putin is going to do squat all by way of escalating a conflict, where one doesn't exist, with a NATO member who on their own, has huge armed forces.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:15 pm

seanmichaels wrote:
Attacks on parachutists, in term of the law of war, is when pilots, aircrews, and/or passengers are attacked while descending by parachutes from disabled aircraft during times of war. This practice is considered by most militaries around the world to be inhumane, barbaric, and unchivalrous, that it is unnecessary killing (i.e., they would eventually become prisoners of war if parachuted over enemy territory), that it is contrary to fair play, and that military pilots have to be held to a higher standard. Attacking persons parachuting from an aircraft in distress is a war crime under Protocol I in addition to the 1949 Geneva Conventions. However, it is not prohibited under this Protocol to open fire on airborne troops who are descending by parachutes, even if their aircraft is in distress.

Yes. I don't disagree with this or the fact that if Turkmen in Syria murdered them after they bailed out, that's a despicable act. But what has this got to do with Turkey downing a Russian jet?? Bugger all.

by **seanmichaels** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:18 pm

Putin should carpet bomb them (Turkmen) in retaliation.

by **Pr4wn** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:20 pm

So you think that shooting down a Russian jet is a justified response, even if there was an encroachment?

Putin is obviously no saint but Erdogan is a despot.

I'm not saying the exact location of the jet was BS, apologies for being unclear, I'm saying that Turkey extending its airspace via NATO into another sovereign nation is BS. It's ridiculous.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:33 pm

Shooting the plane down is one thing but executing the airmen after they ejected is something completely different; Turkey seem to think they can do what they want because they have American backing.

by kingraf Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:42 pm

Yep Putin is gonna smoke these Turks

by **seanmichaels** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:42 pm

Turks allegedly funding ISIS into billions of dollars through cut price fuel. What a mess....

by **Pr4wn** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:43 pm

Sorry, who says it was the Turks that executed the pilots? I thought that was unverified at this time. The plane crashed in Syria.

by Duty281 Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:43 pm

seanmichaels wrote:Just seen a video of the 'friendly' rebels gathered round the dead pilot. Savages.

Bunch of fanatics following a very depraved religion.

by **seanmichaels** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:43 pm

kingraf wrote:Yep Putin is gonna smoke these Turks

We need to get into line with Putin. He's just about the only leader who has a transparent agenda.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:44 pm

Pr4wn wrote:So you think that shooting down a Russian jet is a justified response, even if there was an encroachment?

Putin is obviously no saint but Erdogan is a despot.

I'm not saying the exact location of the jet was BS, apologies for being unclear, I'm saying that Turkey extending its airspace via NATO into another sovereign nation is BS. It's ridiculous.

I'm not sure if I think downing a Russian plane is 'justified'. I am saying that Turkey were very clear what they'd do and that Putin is an arrogant man who thinks he can do whatever the Hell he likes.
Not sure I'd call Erdogan a proper despot (yet) but you're right that he seems to be heading that way and taking Turkey in the wrong direction, IMO. Is that true re. the airspace extension? I'd tend to agree it's a nonsense if so.

by **seanmichaels** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:44 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Sorry, who says it was the Turks that executed the pilots? I thought that was unverified at this time. The plane crashed in Syria.

Turkmen rebels. (Turkmen brigades trained in Turkey)

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:45 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Shooting the plane down is one thing but executing the airmen after they ejected is something completely different; Turkey seem to think they can do what they want because they have American backing.

Huh????? What responsibility does Turkey have for the actions of the Syrian Turkmen??? They aren't beholden to the Turkish government at all.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:46 pm

Duty281 wrote:
seanmichaels wrote:Just seen a video of the 'friendly' rebels gathered round the dead pilot. Savages.

Bunch of fanatics following a very depraved religion.

:yawn:

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:48 pm

kingraf wrote:Yep Putin is gonna smoke these Turks

No, he isn't.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:48 pm

The TURKISH trained Syrian Turkmen.

by **seanmichaels** Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:49 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Shooting the plane down is one thing but executing the airmen after they ejected is something completely different; Turkey seem to think they can do what they want because they have American backing.
Huh????? What responsibility does Turkey have for the actions of the Syrian Turkmen??? They aren't beholden to the Turkish government at all.

None really. Not sure what you are getting at. I suggested Putin targets the Turkmen in Syria. Fly a squadron of those Tupolov Tu-95 Bears over there and carpet bomb the feckers.

by kingraf Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:51 pm

I reckon he will. Putin is pretty predictable. Whatever someone who wants to prove he has big balls would do is generally exactly what Putin would do.

by kingraf Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:53 pm

There's no party that comes out of this looking too hot.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:55 pm

There are a lot of people who hold the false assumption that Putin is all mouth but the Crimea conflict proves he will do as he pleases when he pleases and won't be dictated to by America or anybody else. If he decides to retaliate which I think is quite likely it will be a pivotal moment in the Syrian conflict, there is nothing the Western powers will do nor can they, he's already started quoting the UN right of self defence.

by TopHat24/7 Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:01 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Shooting the plane down is one thing but executing the airmen after they ejected is something completely different; Turkey seem to think they can do what they want because they have American backing.

Who said Turkey shot the airmen?

Only suggestion I've seen is that rebels/terrorists did - and they're hardly signed up to the Geneva convention!

by **seanmichaels** Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:03 pm

He should ride in on his horse bare-chested with 300 tanks behind him. That would be brilliant.

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