What can we do about ISIS ???

First topic message reminder :

Not interested in the historical blame game...........We have a very big problem at the moment as the atrocity over the weekend shows.........

I'm at a loss at what to do about iSIS........

Personally think the horse has bolted....

Tunisia can happen anywhere at anytime...

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Shooting the plane down is one thing but executing the airmen after they ejected is something completely different; Turkey seem to think they can do what they want because they have American backing.

Who said Turkey shot the airmen?

Only suggestion I've seen is that rebels/terrorists did - and they're hardly signed up to the Geneva convention!

The Turkmen who have been trained by the Turkish special forces.

Mark Galeotti, a New York University professor sums it up pretty well. Russia won't retaliate or go to war. What it ideally wants is for the EU and the US to say that the shooting down of the craft was unjustified.

I suspect neither Moscow nor, at the very least, the other European Nato powers will want to let this go too far. Russia cannot fight hot diplomatic wars on too many fronts, and Europe clearly wants Moscow to be part of the solution in Syria and maybe Ukraine, too. And, frankly, there is in many capitals concern about Turkey, its agenda and its role in the region. Much will depend on where Washington falls, of course, but if Moscow can get even a crumb of contrition from Ankara or sympathy from Europe, then we can expect this to be splashed on Russian TV and allow the Kremlin to let this slide a little.

But even in this best-case scenario, I don’t imagine that will be the end to it. Moscow has already been willing to operate inside Turkey covertly, and is engaged in political tussles over influence in the South Caucasus as well as Middle East. I would expect some uptick in ‘mischief’ – perhaps some support for the Kurds or other violent extreme movements, for example – as well as a more assiduous campaign to push back and stymie Turkish regional ambitions.

It’s often said, with good reason, that Putin really wants a return to 19th century geopolitics, when might made right and realpolitik was all. Let’s not forget that one of the defining 19thcentury conflicts was that between Russia and the Ottoman Empire, which were sometimes openly at war, sometimes ostensibly at peace, but never anything than enemies. Here we go again.

seanmichaels wrote:He should ride in on his horse bare-chested with 300 tanks behind him. That would be brilliant.

You really don't help yourself Sean.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The TURKISH trained Syrian Turkmen.

And?

seanmichaels wrote:He should ride in on his horse bare-chested with 300 tanks behind him. That would be brilliant.

That, at least, would be worth a giggle. Not least as he'd probably be shot out of the saddle.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:There are a lot of people who hold the false assumption that Putin is all mouth but the Crimea conflict proves he will do as he pleases when he pleases and won't be dictated to by America or anybody else. If he decides to retaliate which I think is quite likely it will be a pivotal moment in the Syrian conflict, there is nothing the Western powers will do nor can they, he's already started quoting the UN right of self defence.

Crimea is one thing. Taking on Turkey, even without NATO backing, is another all together. I concede he might do something that dumb, but Turkey has treaties with NATO and, presumably, the NATO nations. He isn't that stupid or, if he is, his General Staff and intelligence chiefs certainly aren't.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Shooting the plane down is one thing but executing the airmen after they ejected is something completely different; Turkey seem to think they can do what they want because they have American backing.

Who said Turkey shot the airmen?

Only suggestion I've seen is that rebels/terrorists did - and they're hardly signed up to the Geneva convention!

The Turkmen who have been trained by the Turkish special forces.

I repeat, WTF does that have to do with the Turkish downing of the Russian fighter? Nothing. Nada. Zip. Are you seriously suggesting that if, say, some Iraqi shot a Russian soldier, Russia would make war on America because "America trained them"???? Your suggestion only makes sense if it could be proved that the Turkmen murdered the Russian pilots on the explicit orders of the Turkish. I think you're stretching credibility a bit - certainly in the absence of anything to support the idea.

Khrushchev crapped his pants when Russia was a big power....

Putin is full of wind and p**s..

Duty281 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:Just seen a video of the 'friendly' rebels gathered round the dead pilot. Savages.

Bunch of fanatics following a very depraved religion.

Very insulting

some would say YOU indulge in depraved acts how would you feel about that?

All religion is depraved in fairness to Duty.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:All religion is depraved in fairness to Duty.

How is that?

If followed by a good sincere human being religion will bring out the best in man.

Helping your fellow man, giving charity, feeding the poor, and avoiding sinful acts what is so depraved about that.

People blame religion when they should be blaming men who use religion.

*yawn*

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:Just seen a video of the 'friendly' rebels gathered round the dead pilot. Savages.

Bunch of fanatics following a very depraved religion.

Very insulting

some would say YOU indulge in depraved acts how would you feel about that?

He'd be pleased at their misconception of how successful his chat up lines are.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:All religion is depraved in fairness to Duty.

Seriously? To describe all religion (and by extension/implication, all religious people), as "depraved" isn't really that clever is it?

You can have a problem with religion without having a problem with the followers....

While a religion discussion is unavoidable given ISIS MO, I dont think it takes a rocket scientist to deduce that we're heading into Locked thread tedditory.

ShahenshahG wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:He should ride in on his horse bare-chested with 300 tanks behind him. That would be brilliant.

You really don't help yourself Sean.

Come on, those pecs are to die for.....

navyblueshorts wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:All religion is depraved in fairness to Duty.

Seriously? To describe all religion (and by extension/implication, all religious people), as "depraved" isn't really that clever is it?

Nonsense. I never said anything about religious people.

kingraf wrote:While a religion discussion is unavoidable given ISIS MO, I dont think it takes a rocket scientist to deduce that we're heading into Locked thread tedditory.

I would suggest Raf's comment is very perceptive.

Yeah, heaven forfend a debate should actually start on this forum!

We wouldn't want that!

It's a sports forum, debates that veer into the area of religion invariably lead to countless posts being reported, complaints being made to the mods, that creates us work, work none of us are particularly interested or inclined to do. None of us signed up to moderate a current affairs forum, if we wanted to do that I guess we would join one, or Adam and Hero would have started one back in the day.

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:All religion is depraved in fairness to Duty.

Seriously? To describe all religion (and by extension/implication, all religious people), as "depraved" isn't really that clever is it?

Nonsense. I never said anything about religious people.

Pretty sure I wasn't referring to your post...

"debate the big sporting and non-sporting issues here."

Anyway, make Derby a moderator - he seems pretty level-headed.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:All religion is depraved in fairness to Duty.

Seriously? To describe all religion (and by extension/implication, all religious people), as "depraved" isn't really that clever is it?

Nonsense. I never said anything about religious people.

Pretty sure I wasn't referring to your post...

Terribly sorry, I thought you were.

Rowley wrote:It's a sports forum, debates that veer into the area of religion invariably lead to countless posts being reported, complaints being made to the mods, that creates us work, work none of us are particularly interested or inclined to do. None of us signed up to moderate a current affairs forum, if we wanted to do that I guess we would join one, or Adam and Hero would have started one back in the day.

I'd like to report this post..

About time you learned how to report posts in all fairness truss.

It's not easy when you keep getting banned..

This has the potential to become a bit of a chicken and egg debate.

Rowley wrote:This has the potential to become a bit of a chicken and egg debate.

I'll have the chicken.....more protein...

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Shooting the plane down is one thing but executing the airmen after they ejected is something completely different; Turkey seem to think they can do what they want because they have American backing.

Who said Turkey shot the airmen?

Only suggestion I've seen is that rebels/terrorists did - and they're hardly signed up to the Geneva convention!

The Turkmen who have been trained by the Turkish special forces.

So not Turkey or its military then. Thanks for clearing that up.

I see he's moved a destroyer into the Med and all raids will now be escorted by fighters. Bet the Turks are sh!tting it. Disappointed with Obama / NATO response. Needed to condemn the Turkish action.

Think Turkey have played into the Russkies hands with this one, NATO and the US won't want to condemn it and make the Russians look right, the Russians can now flex again and tell everyone how they're the wrong party.
Don't know why but this all looks stupid to me, got a massive problem with IS and 2 countries are having a peeing contest instead

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:All religion is depraved in fairness to Duty.

How is that?

If followed by a good sincere human being religion will bring out the best in man.

Helping your fellow man, giving charity, feeding the poor, and avoiding sinful acts what is so depraved about that.

People blame religion when they should be blaming men who use religion.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/atheists-generous-religious-helping-study-article-1.1072386

A fanatical atheist is just as a bad as a fanatical religious person (in fact they're both the same, atheism is a different form of religion.)

The problem lies with the person, not with the religion. and as 1/2 pointed out helping your fellow man etc is a big part of Christianity and that's what should be taught, not the bonkers extremism that gets banded about.

That's crap Derby......

The people get their lead from religion..

Religions that advocate stoning homosexuals and are full of Jew hating encourage their followers...

Don't give religion credit for good people who do charity work.......we regularly give to charity because we care...

"Lies with the people" ...Everyone should take stock of ones actions. However people get their ideas from somewhere.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:That's crap Derby......

The people get their lead from religion..

Religions that advocate stoning homosexuals and are full of Jew hating encourage their followers...

Don't give religion credit for good people who do charity work.......we regularly give to charity because we care...

"Lies with the people" ...Everyone should take stock of ones actions.  However people get their ideas from somewhere.

Religion does more harm than good, religion can and has driven people to carry out atrocities throughout history however I doubt atheism has ever had the same impact.

Plenty of atrocities have happened without religion being a significant contributing factor though: Holocaust and Cambodian genocide from social engineering; Congo Free State and colonisations of South America for material gain etc etc

They have, but none were ever done in the name of Atheism. No-one quotes Richard Dawkins whilst lopping off someones head.
If someone needs a book on how to have a decent moral compass then perhaps there's more underlying issues.
As Rowley said though, perhaps shall everyone discuss the OP on this one rather than veering into the usual religious debate.

How would that even happen? Killing because someone followed any religion? But yeah getting away from the central debate.

Dawkins wrote some great science books, it's a shame he's probably best known for his judgemental and self-righteous 'God Delusion'.

seanmichaels wrote:I see he's moved a destroyer into the Med and all raids will now be escorted by fighters. Bet the Turks are sh!tting it. Disappointed with Obama / NATO response. Needed to condemn the Turkish action.

I doubt the Turks are pooing themselves overmuch (http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=turkey). If the Ruskies overfly Turkish airspace again, they'll be warned and then shot at...again. I guess they might hang back for a little longer if an aircraft is obviously heading out of its airspace shortly, but I wouldn't blame them if they didn't. If Russia wasn't being such an arse bombing non-IS targets and Putin wasn't such a macho bell end with Soviet-era day dreams, this wouldn't be an issue at all. Obama/NATO are never going to publicly condemn Turkey over this.

Derbymanc wrote:...Don't know why but this all looks stupid to me, got a massive problem with IS and 2 countries are having a peeing contest instead

Absolutely.

I don't know what this Corbyn guy is doing questioning this shoot to kill policy......

First responsibility of any government is to protect its people...

False alarm and someone gets wasted...........Tough !!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:False alarm and someone gets wasted...........Tough !!

Typical yank.

Scottrf wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:False alarm and someone gets wasted...........Tough !!

Typical yank.

Nope.....You don't take chances.....Scotty.

Shoot everyone. They might be a terrorist. Who cares if they are just chilling out eating their lunch or riding the tube.

Who cares if we have no evidence of wrongdoing and paid bounties to have them reported as terrorists. Lock them up for a decade without trial.

Oh wait, did we become the terrorists?

Scottrf wrote:Shoot everyone. They might be a terrorist. Who cares if they are just chilling out eating their lunch or riding the tube.

Who cares if we have no evidence of wrongdoing and paid bounties to have them reported as terrorists. Lock them up for a decade without trial.

Oh wait, did we become the terrorists?

Wow..What a hysterical response....

Not really. You said it doesn't matter if an innocent is shot in the name of anti terrorism.

The second line has already happened.

navyblueshorts wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:I see he's moved a destroyer into the Med and all raids will now be escorted by fighters. Bet the Turks are sh!tting it. Disappointed with Obama / NATO response. Needed to condemn the Turkish action.

I doubt the Turks are pooing themselves overmuch (http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=turkey).

Russia ranked 2nd but that doesn't tell half the story. Have a look at the comparisons!

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=russia&country2=turkey&Submit=COMPARE

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I don't know what this Corbyn guy is doing questioning this shoot to kill policy......

First responsibility of any government is to protect its people...

False alarm and someone gets wasted...........Tough !!

Yeah lets go down the yank route...

shoot first......shoot some more.

Scottrf wrote:Not really. You said it doesn't matter if an innocent is shot in the name of anti terrorism.

The second line has already happened.

I'm talking about the shooting the suspect..............Not suggesting special branch go around spraying shopping centers..

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I don't know what this Corbyn guy is doing questioning this shoot to kill policy......

First responsibility of any government is to protect its people...

False alarm and someone gets wasted...........Tough !!

Yeah lets go down the yank route...

shoot first......shoot some more.

When you're angry your spelling improves !!!.

Stereotyping again are we..