England v Australia - Test 1, Cardiff 8th - 12th July

First topic message reminder :

England

Lyth
Cook
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson


Australia

Warner
Rogers
Smith
Clarke
Voges
Watson
Haddin
Johnson
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood



Officials

Umpires - HDPK Dharmasena and M Erasmus
TV umpire - CB Gaffaney
Match referee - RS Madugalle
Reserve umpire - NGB Cook



Toss

Won by England who choose to bat.

Ballance scoring that 50 and not Bell is a shame....

The kid doesn't look good enough to me..

Apologies to Lyth for my "giving him out then" Too many left handers...
Hope the reprieve will help him to a score.

28 runs off the last three overs...Australia don't have that many runs to be playing with!

Bell is going berserk out there. Probably knows about that letter I sent to the ECB demanding his removal from the team if he fails here!

Intrigued by this injury of Starc's ...

We are told he is so badly damaged he likely won't play at Lord's ; yet here he is in his fifth over , bowling ninety mph.

I should be so injured

This partnership has amassed 41 runs in five overs!

Sweet.

Englands two liabilities are going berserk more like.

Straight out of the KP hit your way into form book.

England in the box seat now effectively 63 for 2 and this pair upping the scoring rate. England will be looking for a lead in excess of 400 I reckon.

CaledonianCraig wrote:England in the box seat now effectively 63 for 2 and this pair upping the scoring rate. England will be looking for a lead in excess of 400 I reckon.

We would want that - its still a flat pitch and Pakistan chased down 377 the other day so big chases are possible!

Lyon on . Game moving at a pace still.

Does appear to be an increasing amount of uneven bounce ; so if England can make even a reasonable fist of this innings , they will fancy a result.

I see Lyth is demonstrating that he can score quickly ... Must have heard the poster earlier who queried his capacity to do so

MJ back on.

Bell and Lyth for the T20 squad?

alfie wrote:Lyon on .  Game moving at a pace still.

Does appear to be an increasing amount of uneven bounce ; so if England can make even a reasonable fist of this innings , they will fancy a result.

I see Lyth is demonstrating that he can score quickly ... Must have heard the poster earlier who queried his capacity to do so

MJ back on.

It wasn't me! To be fair he looks like a walking wicket, so he may as well get out for a run a ball 30 than 5 off 30 balls.

This pair at the crease now getting much needed runs here for their own sake. Now they'll want to press on and really press home this advantage England have.

England scoring quick runs in a test instead of capitulating under pressure.

This is way out of my comfort zone - let's go back to the norm and Shane Watson getting out lbw please

Anyone think our top order needs a bit of a shake-up? No problems with the personnel in the team per se, but during the first innings Lyon got in early against two left-handers and took an early wicket. We've had an early wicket in both innings bringing Ballance to the crease early, and he hasn't looked happy against the new ball. He gritted through it in the first innings but looked much more comfortable later in the innings.

My solution would be to get a more attacking right-hander in at 3 and move Ballance into the middle order with Root and Stokes (and also be more fluid with who we send in at 4). Bell would be good for this role if he carries on as he's doing this innings and gets a good score, KP would also be good (although possibly the ECB wouldn't be keen). Even if Bell fails, we can look at someone like Hales or Taylor for that role.

Ballance can come in basically when the second opener falls, and then look to play a bit of an anchor role for Root, Stokes, Buttler and Ali, trying to bat through and build the partnerships while the man at the other end has a bit of a licence to tee off.

Olly wrote:England scoring quick runs in a test instead of capitulating under pressure.

This is way out of my comfort zone - let's go back to the norm and Shane Watson getting out lbw please

We also wrapped up the tail without gifting a fifty or hundred to someone who barely knows which end of the bat to hold

Moeen Ali could be the big difference between the teams...

Probably as good as Lyon and a top order batsman to boot..

robbo277 wrote:Anyone think our top order needs a bit of a shake-up? No problems with the personnel in the team per se, but during the first innings Lyon got in early against two left-handers and took an early wicket. We've had an early wicket in both innings bringing Ballance to the crease early, and he hasn't looked happy against the new ball. He gritted through it in the first innings but looked much more comfortable later in the innings.

My solution would be to get a more attacking right-hander in at 3 and move Ballance into the middle order with Root and Stokes (and also be more fluid with who we send in at 4). Bell would be good for this role if he carries on as he's doing this innings and gets a good score, KP would also be good (although possibly the ECB wouldn't be keen). Even if Bell fails, we can look at someone like Hales or Taylor for that role.

Ballance can come in basically when the second opener falls, and then look to play a bit of an anchor role for Root, Stokes, Buttler and Ali, trying to bat through and build the partnerships while the man at the other end has a bit of a licence to tee off.

I am delighted to say KP is finished as far as Test cricket goes. He is in his mid-30s and his test batting average was nose-diving when his career ended.

VTR wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:England in the box seat now effectively 63 for 2 and this pair upping the scoring rate. England will be looking for a lead in excess of 400 I reckon.

We would want that - its still a flat pitch and Pakistan chased down 377 the other day so big chases are possible!

Not so sure about "flat". Slow , yes. But a fair bit of turn for Lyon as well as the bounce getting variable...Might be a bit of work for Moeen and Root second innings ? (With the ball I mean. Hopefully they will already have done more good work with the bat by then )

Johnson upping his pace a bit now...

robbo277 wrote:Anyone think our top order needs a bit of a shake-up? No problems with the personnel in the team per se, but during the first innings Lyon got in early against two left-handers and took an early wicket. We've had an early wicket in both innings bringing Ballance to the crease early, and he hasn't looked happy against the new ball. He gritted through it in the first innings but looked much more comfortable later in the innings.

My solution would be to get a more attacking right-hander in at 3 and move Ballance into the middle order with Root and Stokes (and also be more fluid with who we send in at 4). Bell would be good for this role if he carries on as he's doing this innings and gets a good score, KP would also be good (although possibly the ECB wouldn't be keen). Even if Bell fails, we can look at someone like Hales or Taylor for that role.

Ballance can come in basically when the second opener falls, and then look to play a bit of an anchor role for Root, Stokes, Buttler and Ali, trying to bat through and build the partnerships while the man at the other end has a bit of a licence to tee off.

The shake up would be to promote Root and ruin him again.

Part of the reason the top order looks shakey is because they tend to face the quicks when they are fresh with a hard ball, and often when theres a bit of seam to boot.

Till Gilchrist and Hayden come out of retirement and decide that they were english all along Ill settle for tehse guys. Lets not forget that England havent had a settled opening partnership since Strauss (and he got dropped for a time) and have only had Trott (for a couple of years) as a stable 3 since Noah.
Its not like these top order bats exactly grow on trees.


Root probably should push above Bell tbf but that doenst really change the make up of the side.

Yes, KP isn't coming back but I am with Robbo in that we do need someone who can score more quickly in the Top 3. Bell should be that man, but clearly isn't at the moment and isn't too many failures away from being finished as a Test player. I am a bit worried that Root is going to get shoved up there again at some point soon

VTR wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:England in the box seat now effectively 63 for 2 and this pair upping the scoring rate. England will be looking for a lead in excess of 400 I reckon.

We would want that - its still a flat pitch and Pakistan chased down 377 the other day so big chases are possible!

Time is on the side of the English as well. There'll be at least 80 overs between now and lunch tomorrow - if (IF) England bat that out, the lead should be 440+ by then.

LEAVE THEM BE FOR A BIT THEY'RE DOING FINE

Lyth went in to his shell against Lyon after hitting the six, but wow what a catch!

What a tremendous catch from Clark. Lyth out for 37 and England effectively are 195 for 3.

VTR wrote:Yes, KP isn't coming back but I am with Robbo in that we do need someone who can score more quickly in the Top 3. Bell should be that man, but clearly isn't at the moment and isn't too many failures away from being finished as a Test player. I am a bit worried that Root is going to get shoved up there again at some point soon

Given his complete and utter capitulation in the U.A.E. last time, I wouldn't be surprised if Bell announces his retirement at the end of this series.

He's 33, has been a mainstay for a decade and over a hundred tests now. Might be nearing the end.

Ah, Lyth gone. Stupendous catch.

Olly wrote:LEAVE THEM BE FOR A BIT THEY'RE DOING FINE

The top order? They really aren't though are they? Even here, it's over to the middle order yet again to put on the big partnerships

Not a surprise that wicket ...great catch ; but Lyon looking very dangerous to the lefties .
Think Lyth might have been better advised to continue taking the attack to him. Had he followed up the six with a few more good blows he might have put him off his length ...not that I am suggesting such a method would be without risk ! Just that you could sort of see the wicket coming , either lbw or an edge.

Good contest here.

Lyth is absolute garbage - I think we all have our answer now as to why they tried Trott ahead of him in the Windies. That must be about the luckiest 37 in Test history, he could honestly have been out 10 times before he was put out of his misery

EDIT: And no, I don't have a clue who we could try next as an opener!

Alfie - 149 Test wickets now for the Lyon King. My sort of player but you know that.

Mrs Bat has now returned, switched over to the tennis and hidden the remote control. Catch up later.

VTR wrote:

Olly wrote:LEAVE THEM BE FOR A BIT THEY'RE DOING FINE

The top order? They really aren't though are they? Even here, it's over to the middle order yet again to put on the big partnerships

Cook - not changing
Lyth - scored a hundred last test, hasn't looked out of place so far
Ballance - averaging over 50, scored 10 scores of fifty or above in his 25 test innings.

They're going to have bad spells its the nature of facing good fast bowling. But they've shown more than enough to be stuck with, and I cannot understand this weird obsession we have with wanting to move guys about the order - and it's not like we have guys in the county game kicking the door down in the top 3 slot anyways

VTR wrote:

Olly wrote:LEAVE THEM BE FOR A BIT THEY'RE DOING FINE

The top order? They really aren't though are they? Even here, it's over to the middle order yet again to put on the big partnerships

I take the idea that a free scoring right hander in the top three might be nice. But I am not sure there is an obvious candidate. And with Cook having good recent form ( even looked good in both innings here ; got himself out each time really) , Ballance averaging what , high forties ? And Lyth on L plates I am with Olly on this - leave them be.

If 2005 Trescothick were available , I would reconsider

Action packed hour !

Fair enough chaps. I am looking more long-term if we want to get back to being one of the best sides in the world. Cook and Ballance have done more than enough to stay, but the combination doesn't seem to gel.

And I think Lyth looks really poor, good for him he got that hundred but I suspect it will be his first and last

Ian Bell living dangerous. Australia are in with a sniff if they can get the next wicket quickly. I'm still of the opinion that rather than a long middle order, England have a long lower middle order. After this partnership, the next six batsmen have FOUR test hundreds between them.

kingraf wrote:Ian Bell living dangerous. Australia are in with a sniff if they can get the next wicket quickly. I'm still of the opinion that rather than a long middle order, England have a long lower middle order. After this partnership, the next six batsmen have FOUR test hundreds between them.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. England are 200+ runs ahead of arguably the team with the best bowling attack in the world. With 7 wickets remaining....

Long term : well that is another matter. If Lyth doesn't make the opener's spot his own , then yes , the search for the New Strauss will go on .
Unfortunately it already seems to have been going on forever

Although he is batting three now , I gather , I think Hales may be next in line ? Would be an exciting choice if he were up to it ; but having settled on Lyth for now it would seem a bit twitchy to change until he's had a decent chance.
I am not quite as pessimistic as VTR on Lyth. As has been said , he already has one hundred in his first three Tests. Has looked shaky at times ; but he has faced some fairly handy new ball bowlers in his introduction to the game at this level. I want to see a bit more.
Swapping Bell and Ballance is an option , I suppose. Though you'd hope to see a few runs from Bell first !

Did I hear anyone say Bopara

kingraf wrote:Ian Bell living dangerous. Australia are in with a sniff if they can get the next wicket quickly. I'm still of the opinion that rather than a long middle order, England have a long lower middle order. After this partnership, the next six batsmen have FOUR test hundreds between them.

This pitch is already starting to turn more now though. It isn't going to improve as a batting strip so runs in the bank are gold dust and that is what England have.The ball that got Lyth out there was a big puff of dust as that ball pitched. In short England are effectively 219 for 3 and how much would Australia be comfortably chasing now on this pitch considering they got bowled out for just over 300 in the first innings? I'd say even if England have a calamitous collapse and are bowled out for 175 or something I'd still make them favourites to win.

Bairstow has to be the next cab off the rank currently.

Potential career saver here from Bell.

I'd quite like to see us sit in a bit now. That was quite fraught and frenetic getting to 100/3, but another couple of 50 partnerships would pretty much kill off the Aussies. Get some overs in those bowlers legs as well, the next test starts less than a week today!

Gooseberry wrote:Potential career saver here from Bell.

He really is the master of brinkmanship. I think in the Ashes of 2011 pre-series the axes were out g=for him but had a cracking series which saved his neck. The same is evident now and could this be the start of history repeating itself.?

kingraf wrote:Ian Bell living dangerous. Australia are in with a sniff if they can get the next wicket quickly. I'm still of the opinion that rather than a long middle order, England have a long lower middle order. After this partnership, the next six batsmen have FOUR test hundreds between them.

Well yes. But three of the next six are essentially just bowlers. And the other three have only played about 30 matches between them ...

Agreed this is far from over. Australian teams don't lie down. But you wouldn't think this is a pitch on which a total collapse should be on , other than against the new ball ?

Suppose the question of what an achievable fourth innings target could be will be interesting . At the moment I haven't a clue...though the way Lyon has bowled suggests spin will be a factor. England don't have a Swann now , unfortunately . Can Moeen do a job ?

Just shy of half the runs in this innings came in one spell of 5 out of the 28 overs. Aside from that insane blitz its been Boycott like.

alfie wrote:

kingraf wrote:Ian Bell living dangerous. Australia are in with a sniff if they can get the next wicket quickly. I'm still of the opinion that rather than a long middle order, England have a long lower middle order. After this partnership, the next six batsmen have FOUR test hundreds between them.

Well yes. But three of the next six are essentially just bowlers.  And the other three have only played about 30 matches between them ...

Agreed this is far from over.  Australian teams don't lie down. But you wouldn't think this is a pitch on which a total collapse should be on , other than against the new ball ?  

Suppose the question of what an achievable fourth innings target could be will be interesting .  At the moment I haven't a clue...though the way Lyon has bowled suggests spin will be a factor.  England don't have a Swann now , unfortunately .  Can Moeen do a job ?

They had swann and panessar last time bowling like dickends. Moeen has already shown he can get out the best of the aussie bats, and there appears to be a fair bit in the pitch for disciplined seam bowlers.
Given the depth of Englands batting the lead should be well over 300 even if they do fold a bit, and given the paucity of Australias batting it realy would take a bunch of turkeys to drop the game form here.

1-0 to Aus it is then

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Potential career saver here from Bell.

He really is the master of brinkmanship. I think in the Ashes of 2011 pre-series the axes were out g=for him but had a cracking series which saved his neck. The same is evident now and could this be the start of history repeating itself.?

Its infuriating. He gets to the point where he could justifiably be dropped then pulls a great few performances out of the bag then repeats the cycle. I think his average of 43 says it all, a player of his gifts should be averaging more like 53

Got to think Starc will come back into the attack before tea. Give him a couple of overs replacing Lyon.

Sean

Not sure you'd want Bairstow batting at opener or 3 - I'd expect Hales to be the next to have a go in either of these spots. Bairstow better cover for 4-6, although I don't think his keeping is up to also covering for Buttler.

At the moment I don't see Bell as a viable option to move up the order - even after this innings his confidence won't be at its best, and we all know that is one of the main things with his game. And as for moving Root up, the question would be why take the risk? Currently one of the form batsmen in the world batting at 5.

alfie wrote:

kingraf wrote:Ian Bell living dangerous. Australia are in with a sniff if they can get the next wicket quickly. I'm still of the opinion that rather than a long middle order, England have a long lower middle order. After this partnership, the next six batsmen have FOUR test hundreds between them.

Well yes. But three of the next six are essentially just bowlers.  And the other three have only played about 30 matches between them ...

Agreed this is far from over.  Australian teams don't lie down. But you wouldn't think this is a pitch on which a total collapse should be on , other than against the new ball ?  

Suppose the question of what an achievable fourth innings target could be will be interesting .  At the moment I haven't a clue...though the way Lyon has bowled suggests spin will be a factor.  England don't have a Swann now , unfortunately .  Can Moeen do a job ?

I can see Root playing a part with the ball as well. He bowled better than Ali in Windies and in the series V New Zealand.

seanmichaels wrote:Bairstow has to be the next cab off the rank currently.

Well yes. But he's not a top three bat. He is in the difficult position of contesting with Root and Stokes ; or Bell , with the former moving up. Apart from being the alternative keeper.

Could see him in coming when Bell calls it a day. Or runs out of credit with the selectors. Would prefer it doesn't happen just yet , personally...I really like Root coming in at five.

A handy reserve . He'll go to the UAE.

dummy_half wrote:Sean

Not sure you'd want Bairstow batting at opener or 3 - I'd expect Hales to be the next to have a go in either of these spots. Bairstow better cover for 4-6, although I don't think his keeping is up to also covering for Buttler.

At the moment I don't see Bell as a viable option to move up the order - even after this innings his confidence won't be at its best, and we all know that is one of the main things with his game. And as for moving Root up, the question would be why take the risk? Currently one of the form batsmen in the world batting at 5.

Haha... I swear I hadn't read your post when I typed , dummy

Great minds think alike ?