THE OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

First topic message reminder :

Congrats to Zach Johnson

Not the Yank Johnson I thought would win.

Still, well done Zach!

Zach Johnson wins his second major. Upgrades his status from the one hit wonders.

Not a terribly popular winner I feel .. but still deserved I guess

The presser will be excruciating

Congrats Zach Johnson, that was some Open Championship. It had it all and thrilling to the end! A part of me expected it to go on for another week.

Has there ever been a less popular winner? Barely any applause at all.

Turning off now before he starts talking about god again.

To be fair, if you take out the religion bits (and there weren't any in his BBC interview) Zach Johnson always seems like a nice bloke

Helluva pitch and putt course you play at super_, gave us a wonderful championship.

Disappointed for Louis, very happy for Zach - missed a putt to get into the John Deere play-off that Spieth won last year.
Think he's made up for it.

Well done Zachary. Brilliant play, well deserved win.
Fabulous tournament in wonderful setting. Pity about the weather, but in some way at least that made the event.
Really enjoyed the whole thing, although the bagpipes from a backstreet could have turned down a bit!
Super - you are a lucky lucky man to play there regularly. So glad you appreciate it!

Liked Zach's speech, and at least he left the nonsense to the very last line.

Congrats to Zach Johnson!

Sad about Harrington falling away!


Shame about choosing the driver on 6 in hindsight it was the wrong the choice!

Credit to Jordan Spieth, what a player!

Zach Johnson has now won at Augusta National and an Open at St Andrews, every golfer in the history of the game would want that.
On a side note its mad to think that Ben Hogan never played The Old Course.

A deserved win. A great open championship. Best for a while I'd say. Zach seemed genuinely blown away. And only a little bit about God.

Did anyone see that woeful article from Luke Kerr Dineen

super_realist wrote:Has there ever been a less popular winner?

Stewart Cink

It kinda puts to sleep the notion that playing the John Deere Classic the week before The Open is to the detriment of Open preparation.

It's just about time the 2019/2020 courses are selected.

puligny wrote:Well done Zachary. Brilliant play, well  deserved win.
Fabulous tournament in wonderful setting. Pity about the weather, but in some way at least that made the event.
Really enjoyed the whole thing, although the bagpipes from a backstreet could have turned down a bit!
Super - you are a lucky lucky man to play there regularly. So glad you appreciate it!

Well, it's certainly, by virtue of some unseasonable weather provided one of the better St.Andrews Opens in memory. Still don't think it merits a 5 year return, although perhaps the old farts at the R&A might give it the 150th one, so hopefully they'll stick to 6 years instead of 5 after that.

Got an early tee time on Saturday, hopefully the dismantling squad won't be working that early and I can enjoy the course with the added depth perspective from the stands, come on the 254/4

kwinigolfer wrote:It kinda puts to sleep the notion that playing the John Deere Classic the week before The Open is to the detriment of Open preparation.

It's just about time the 2019/2020 courses are selected.

Hmmm, only a 21yo could do it I think kwini... and a very talented one at that.

Be_the_ball wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:It kinda puts to sleep the notion that playing the John Deere Classic the week before The Open is to the detriment of Open preparation.

It's just about time the 2019/2020 courses are selected.

Hmmm, only a 21yo could do it I think kwini... and a very talented one at that.

Or a 39 year old?...

sirbenson wrote:Did anyone see that woeful article from Luke Kerr Dineen

Yes, pure garbage.

MustPuttBetter wrote:

Be_the_ball wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:It kinda puts to sleep the notion that playing the John Deere Classic the week before The Open is to the detriment of Open preparation.

It's just about time the 2019/2020 courses are selected.

Hmmm, only a 21yo could do it I think kwini... and a very talented one at that.

Or a 39 year old?...

Oops, I thought only Speith played last week at the JD. Thats how little golf I get to watch there days... I stand corrected.

More important things in life B_t_b,

The John Deere event is close to Zach's hometwon, he's on the Board of the tournament and will always play there.
Hasn't affected his Open Championship performances too much: 16th, 9th, 6th, 47th, 1st the last five years.
Only missed two cuts in his last 22 Majors.

Johnson wins the Open... Just not the Johnson people were expecting.

kwinigolfer wrote:More important things in life B_t_b,

The John Deere event is close to Zach's hometwon, he's on the Board of the tournament and will always play there.
Hasn't affected his Open Championship performances too much: 16th, 9th, 6th, 47th, 1st the last five years.
Only missed two cuts in his last 22 Majors.

Bible Johnson is also sponsored by John Deere. He had a big logo on his bag.

I nodded off during the playoff, the last I remember is watching their approaches on 2! Haha must be getting old!

kwinigolfer wrote:It kinda puts to sleep the notion that playing the John Deere Classic the week before The Open is to the detriment of Open preparation.

It's just about time the 2019/2020 courses are selected.

Yep. Hope so. The idea that 'experience' of a course like this is anything more than a very marginal advantage is bunkum. You play good golf, you have every chance of winning. These guys don't need years of experience to get a ball round a course in a pretty sensible fashion.

Quite impressed to see Spieth be one of the first to congratulate Zach as he walked off the 18th after winning yesterday. Good on him for hanging around.

super_realist wrote:Has there ever been a less popular winner?

I only paid £10 to get in and feel like I want a refund. What a terrible way to cap off a great Open.

Reckon super ought to enter next time it's at SA - he'd urine it.

Just some personal thoughts

I don't see it very often (about once every 5 years!) but TOC (possibly due to the weather) produced a great tournament this time. Sunday in particular I thought was enthralling with charges and subsequent faltering or great "clinging on".

It seems that the opinion of most of the pros I heard is that it's a great course and that they love it, although how much is down to dewey eyed history I don't know.

The ability to deliberately shoot, bail out (or erroneously skew) a lot left seemingly on many holes is the only question mark I really have about it. Although if the approaches are tougher from the left it may be that it is all part of the risk reward aspect to flirting with danger further right?

Green complexes, mixed opinion. Taking the diametrically opposed views of certain frequent posters here... If they are so great, how come so few pin positions on certain holes? If they are so dull and flat, how come so many missed putts (including quite a few from short distances) due to misread lines?

1st and 18th I don't like particularly other than the setting/context as you start or finish off, the tower/airship shots show the first fairway as seemingly flat all the way up while the 18th has all sorts of humps and hollows. On TV the demarcation seemed so stark that to me it made it appear much more manufactured than I had thought it was.

The set up/shape all in all I thought makes it intriguing as there will be a pronounced "attack" half (front 9 in the main) and a "defend" half (generally back 9 this week) and so tests everyone on both making scores when available and keeping scores.

Probably one for Super as St Andrews regular - how come Dunne's hugely skewed drive (when he found his first on the Jubilee (?) course) wasn't OOB? Surely a different course is over a boundary of the course he was on. Is that normally in play for you or is it due to the infrastructure in place for the Open?

All in all, thoroughly enjoyable and whilst I don't doubt there are "better" courses on and off the rota, TOC warrants inclusion, but maybe rotated every 7 years rather than 5.

My tuppence worth.

Roller, Dunnes drive (onto the New) isn't out of bounds at any time. Perhaps for tournaments it should be. It's not OB to come from New to Old either, or from Old to Eden at 12, but it is OB from Eden to Old for some reason

ALso, the attack element is dependent on wind direction. THe front and back can switch round as to where the birdies are most likely. i.e. a SW wind makes the back nine very easy. An east wind makes the front nine easy.

This Open was entirely saved by the wind and rain disruptions, benign weather would expose it woefully.

Forecast for my round on saturday is pretty calm, so I'm hoping for a good score.

Roller

I am not an avid tracker of the pin positions used by the R&A at TOC but if they are not moving them around it is to do with protecting par.  The greatness of TOC is primarily due to how fun it is for all levels of player.  To say they need tougher pins to keep the score down when the pro's turn up does not detract from how brilliant a course it is.  The green complexes provide the player a chance to get as creative as they want to be with approach and recovery shots, and can provide some of the most interesting putts you will find in golf.

I am not sure the TV shots show just how much contour the greens and their surrounds have.  Add to this that on this board many posters are believing the views of one man due to his connection to the course and it is easy to see why some on here don't get TOC.   If anyone on here is abandoning the consensus view that TOC has the best set of greens in golf due to Super_Realist then please at least seek further more appropriate opinions before drawing any conclusions.Try reading what Darwin or Dr Mac thought of the course, or for a more contemporary view try looking into the writings of the new "minimalist" golf architects.   OR better still play the course.

Super

Do you think a course has to be suitable for championship play in order to be considered a great course?

If Augusta remained in it's 1930's form and the pro's averaged 64 around it these days would it still be a great course?

Mac, I think a course has to be able to present a challenge whether or not the weather plays a part.

I don't think that a course has to be hard to be considered great.

My stipulation for a "great" course would be one that can create drama and trip up a player as well as rewarding great shots.

I feel that without bad weather, TOC has no defence, whilst the final 4 holes are a bit of a procession UNLESS it's windy or wet.

Saying that though, this was one of the better St.Andrews efforts, though all down to the weather.

Super

What if you played 1930's Augusta and found it to be the greatest course you had ever played but Spieth could shoot -30 over 4 rounds, would that not be a great course just because the pro's could go low on it?

Isn't there a difference between a good course and a good choice for a Major venue?

Cheers chaps

SR - Ta, OOB or not OOB seems a little odd to me. If you can't keep it on the course you are playing...

Also, if a wind (generally) makes half easier than the other, the point about ability to attack and to defend still stands and implies it can still be a very good test, even at the top of the game (particularly as a completely flat calm day, let alone week in Scotland must be very rare - it certainly is in the Irish Sea). 15 or 16 under isn't a bad winning total for an event and I don't think it's been wildly different in the Open recently has it?

Mac - I'm sure most people on here take both yours and Supers views into account (and after a pinch of salt probably come out in the middle somewhere!). I'd love to play it and until I do all I can do is take those opinions I hear/see on here, TV and elsewhere (including yours and Supers recurring arguments). I don't think most rational observers would take Supers comments in isolation (or yours) and come down on either side solely on that though.

FWIW - if the best players in the game love it (which they seem by and large to do as the "pitch" that they play on) it has to have some (strong) merit, although I think some grew to love it over time so it must have shown faults beyond merely having the usual vagaries of links golf (unexpected bounces for example).

To avoid off topic debate I have created a new thread for the great course debate.

https://www.606v2.com/t59870-does-a-course-has-to-be-suitable-for-championship-play-in-order-to-be-considered-a-great-course#3094344

LadyPutt wrote:
it's just a pity that those of us who are at work and have other things to do this evening probably won't see most of it. I've recorded it but it will be impossible to avoid knowing who has won before I watch the coverage tomorrow!

LP - how did that work out for you when coverage switched from BBC1 to BBC2 right before the play off? Annoying!

Roller_Coaster wrote:Cheers chaps

SR - Ta, OOB or not OOB seems a little odd to me. If you can't keep it on the course you are playing...

Also, if a wind (generally) makes half easier than the other, the point about ability to attack and to defend still stands and implies it can still be a very good test, even at the top of the game (particularly as a completely flat calm day, let alone week in Scotland must be very rare - it certainly is in the Irish Sea). 15 or 16 under isn't a bad winning total for an event and I don't think it's been wildly different in the Open recently has it?

Mac - I'm sure most people on here take both yours and Supers views into account (and after a pinch of salt probably come out in the middle somewhere!). I'd love to play it and until I do all I can do is take those opinions I hear/see on here, TV and elsewhere (including yours and Supers recurring arguments). I don't think most rational observers would take Supers comments in isolation (or yours) and come down on either side solely on that though.

FWIW - if the best players in the game love it (which they seem by and large to do as the "pitch" that they play on) it has to have some (strong) merit, although I think some grew to love it over time so it must have shown faults beyond merely having the usual vagaries of links golf (unexpected bounces for example).

Ah right, This week has been unusually windy, most of the time it's less than 12mph, hence very playable. It's coincidentally just happened twice in the last two St.Andrews events that the weather has been wretched.
If' they'd played it a week earlier, there was virtually no wind.

I see the PC brigade have managed to make the BBC apologise for a comment Peter Allis made about Zach Johnson's wife wanting a new kitchen out of his winnings... Madness. He had me in stitches when they were talking about people with funny walks and he said Harrington looks like he's been around the world on a boat and just set foot on dry land
Jesse James comes out with some classics too.

Be_the_ball wrote:I see the PC brigade have managed to make the BBC apologise for a comment Peter Allis made about Zach Johnson's wife wanting a new kitchen out of his winnings... Madness. He had me in stitches when they were talking about people with funny walks and he said Harrington looks like he's been around the world on a boat and just set foot on dry land
Jesse James comes out with some classics too.

Remember hearing that and thinking at the time people will complain about that.

Ridiculous.

She wants a new ironing board, a pretty dress for Sundays and a picture of a fluffy kitten.

I dislike political correctness but it WAS a pretty stupid thing to say. Silly old duffer

It was a ridiculously patronising thing to say, and made even more so by Zach's praise for her as the 'CEO' in their partnership. I'm a fan of Alliss' commentary for the most part but it did strike me this year that he's no longer appropriate.

Roller_Coaster wrote:

Be_the_ball wrote:I see the PC brigade have managed to make the BBC apologise for a comment Peter Allis made about Zach Johnson's wife wanting a new kitchen out of his winnings... Madness. He had me in stitches when they were talking about people with funny walks and he said Harrington looks like he's been around the world on a boat and just set foot on dry land
Jesse James comes out with some classics too.

Remember hearing that and thinking at the time people will complain about that.

Ridiculous.

She wants a new ironing board, a pretty dress for Sundays and a picture of a fluffy kitten.  

She looked a bit masculine to me, must be what these bible thumpers favour as Gerald Watson's wife is pretty butch too.

SmithersJones wrote:It was a ridiculously patronising thing to say, and made even more so by Zach's praise for her as the 'CEO' in their partnership. I'm a fan of Alliss' commentary for the most part but it did strike me this year that he's no longer appropriate.

It's ridiculously patronising if you think Alliss actually meant that she wanted/thought she was getting a new kitchen, or that was somehow all she deserved.  If you think it was just a flippant remark made in jest, then you'll either find it funny or unfunny based on your sense of humour.  You can take issue all you like as to whether or not you want golf commentators to be human and flippant, or monotone, robotic and colourless, but that's a different issue from being patronising. Personally, I think Alliss has a style which is more and more at odds with the norm so I can get why he is losing his appeal to some. That said, I'd be quite happy to be stuck with Alliss and never hear from Maureen Madill again.

Favourite Alliss commentary "I saw Carol Vorderman on Countdown recently, and I got aroused..." (shocked hush in commentary box) "... that's seven letters - not bad for a lad who left school at 16".

I'm surprised the Mac's of the board didn't pick up on Cotter's quip in regards to how much sushi Matsuyama could now afford to buy.

I must say that I inspected many of the golfers wives and girlfriends and some of them just didn't make the cut. I will continue my life of celibacy until everyone has the same standards as me. The fact that Zach Johnson's wife was not above average in the looks department should mean that his win is null and void. It's about time we stopped having intelligent debate about serious issues until my shallow tiny mind is satisfied that ALL golfers wives and girlfriends are up to snuff. Pr1ck.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/21/tiger-woods-like-robert-de-niro-has-earned-the-right-to-be-terrible

Pretty cool:

http://cdn.thesandtrap.com/9/92/900x900px-LL-922b462f_ScreenShot2015-07-21at8.59.02PM.png