England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

First topic message reminder :

England

Lyth
Cook
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson


Australia

Prob Team:

Warner
Rogers
Smith
Clarke
Voges
Marsh
Nevill
Johnson
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood



Officials

Umpires - HDPK Dharmasena and M Erasmus
TV umpire - CB Gaffaney
Match referee - RS Madugalle
Reserve umpire - AG Wharf

A very Australian like comeback from the visitors. They absolutely brutalized England on day one. Had Warner played with that childishness, what would have it become? Can't even think! Stuart Broad or James Anderson will have to produce some serious magic now to limit the damage.
The pitch was pretty poor for day one, offering nothing much to the bowlers. Hopefully the overhead conditions or something on the track would provide it with lr the rest of the game.

Fabulous from Rogers and Smith. The pitch wasn't the most challenging and the bowling didn't wasn't abale to overcome the pitch as such, but despite all that, it was absolutely brilliant application from the 2 Australians.The focus and determination were of the top class.

Did Adil Rashid ruled himself out for a an injury considered rather minor? That's what cricinfo's George Dobell reports and he hints that that hasn't pleased some in the England side and that there is a chance he might not be in the squad for the 3rd test even if ruled fit. http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2015/content/story/899539.html

Australia in command at the moment. Obviously, a score in excess of 500 must now be on the cards and then it will all rest on how England fair on the pitch. Avoid the follow on and the draw becomes the most likely result.

The roadmap for Australia tomorrow will be to reach lunch at no worse than 450 for 4 and at tea they should be around 575 with maybe around 5 or 6 wickets down (and that is only if the pitch starts doing something). They will probably hope to declare at around 650 with half an hour left of play and hope to reduce England to something like 10 for 1.

For England it is all doom and gloom really. If they can get a couple of wickets in the morning (on this pitch) they will have done well but to get back into this they will be hoping for much more. At lunch to get a foothold in the match they need to have Australia going into lunch for around 425 for 5 and at tea have Australia bowled out for 500. After Tea England will hope to be at around 100 for 1 at close.

The Australian roadmap looks the far more likely to happen and for me now England would be happy to get out of this match with a draw at this moment in time.

My one concern is that England will bat too aggressively on this pitch taking too many risks, which could see them being all out for about 400 compared to australia's probable total of 600. On this pitch we need cook, balance and bell to occupy the crease and grind down the opposition with big long patient innings, jumping on any bad balls, but not taking huge risks. Many of england's lower order i fear are suited to attacking and taking the game away From the opposition in a session or two, but maybe they don't have the mentality for a more traditional test match innings where occupying the crease and using up time is everybit as important as scoring runs

On the plus side Saturday (England might have got Aus out by then...im being optimistic and assuming they will declare by 800-1) looks like being glorious batting weather, and theres rain forecast for Sunday increasing the chances of a bore draw.

msp83 wrote:Did Adil Rashid ruled himself out for a an injury considered rather minor? That's what cricinfo's George Dobell reports and he hints that that hasn't pleased some in the England side and that there is a chance he might not be in the squad for the 3rd test even if ruled fit. http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2015/content/story/899539.html

Id give the story more weight if it wasnt Dobell who seems to have forged a career trolling England.
The stuff about the pitch is just the start, talk abouit exageration. Lets not forget England shipped over 500 runs to new zealand batting second on that. England had their chance to take wickets early in this exploiting the same early cloud and damp that New Zealand did to blow out Englands top order in that game...Aus batted with better quality and discpline against Englands failed plan of bowling to first slip. Its not just the pitch or anything remarkably unusual for Lords in recent years, Dobell himself says that in the article ( it is notoruiously flat for tests...even Ian Bell managed to make nearly 200 runs against Aus last time they played on it). Attempting to cast doubt on the groundsmans statement that its not been very sunny in the last few days is perhaps the oddes thing of all, the weather actually happened ..its a real thing witnessed by millions and records are available to check (It rained in London 3 of the 4 days preceding the test and there was no more than 1 hour of sunsihne in those 4 days). Ditto ahead of the new zealand test where on what was apparently a lightning quick pitch (it wasnt) a record number of runs were scored, records will show the test occured during an unuausly hot sunny May and a day of 14 hours sunshine proir to the game (2 months ago as opposed to the one month quoted by Ponting who appears to be suffering the same dementia that affected him as a test captain).

As for the stuff about Rashid its unsourced and non attributed. The conclussion that he would be dropped if his fingers OK 4 days after the test started is completely made up by the author, or at least no mention of any evidence that that has come from anything said by anyone with the authority to influence that decision is made.

It smacks of desperate jorunalism looking for something to say other than "crikey well batted Aus"

Must admit coming from a baseball background I love 20/20.....

However I like any bat/ball games and appreciate Test Cricket..........

I'll give it ten more years to live If morons are going to be producing crap pitches like this made to order....every time another team has a dangerous speedster....

Poor stuff !!.

Bouncey start to day two

Don't think Rogers expected that on this pitch !

LivinginItaly wrote:My one concern is that England will bat too aggressively on this pitch taking too many risks, which could see them being all out for about 400 compared to australia's probable total of 600. On this pitch we need cook, balance and bell to occupy the crease and grind down the opposition with big long patient innings, jumping on any bad balls, but not taking huge risks. Many of england's lower order i fear are suited to attacking and taking the game away From the opposition in a session or two, but maybe they don't have the mentality for a more traditional test match innings where occupying the crease and using up time is everybit as important as scoring runs

I do share some of those concerns. However , provided the early bats can build a serious platform it may well be that the later order will be able to prosper , playing their natural aggressive game.. They mightn't need to bat two days if the like of Stokes and Buttler can have a few hours at the crease scoring rapidly... Certainly might not work ; but they're arguably better off playing naturally rather than trying to mimic Boycott or Tavare

Presuming they ever get to bat , that is...

Hats off to Broad, Stokes and Wood for all managing to put down deliveries over 90mph on such an unbelivably slow pitch.
I do wonder if the lack of pace is being exagerated a bit here, its interesting to note that Broad, Stokes and Wood all bowled faster late in the day when knackered, only Anderson got consistnetly slower. It does appear that they were holding back for much of the morning and afternoon, not an uncommon tactic from England where there isnt bounce. Overall their pace wasnt much short of what it was on the supposedly perfect / fast pitch of two months ago, and only Wood managed a top speed noticebaly faster in the first innings. Its also worth remembering that New Zealand still cracked up a huge first innings score on that deck.
Smith didnt make much mention of the pitch in his press conference, concentrating instead on how much discpline he batted with but more pointedly Englands negativity in the field and bowling. He didnt fall for the wide bowling tactic, and questioned why they stuck a backward point in so early. Youve also go to question why during the only period of the day when there was any cloud cover and possibly a bit of green graass on the pitch still England ended up bowling Ali with the newish ball (ok it did get a wicket!). It generally smacked of plan A being rubbish and plan B not existing and reliance on the aussies getting themselves out.


There may be a general issue with pitches being kept "good" across the game, but the pressure for that is more likely to come from the ground owners who want a 5 day cash cow rather than the England team. Its only a few years since we were told England were ruining test cricket by having pitches the Pakistanis couldnt last 5 minutes on due to the grass.

Come on Alfie. Let's not speculate.

You have Gem Ch 209? It's on a free to air channel as always.

alfie wrote:Bouncey start to day two

Don't think Rogers expected that on this pitch !

More to the point I dont think he wouldve expected it from Anderson even on an Aussie pitch!

Wicket at last ! Broad gets one past Rogers to end a quite splendid innings...probably not totally unexpected ; Broad has been on the money this morning - indeed he bowled very well , without reward , yesterday.
At least that will spare me the Ian Healey speculation about both batsmen getting double centuries .
Now : can England get a couple more ?

As we were saying Broads pace and movement is just too much for this weak Aussie batting line up to handle. 2-0 is on.

Its worth noting theyve been looking to bowl fuller and closer to the stumps this morning than they did yesterday. Paid off by actually hitting them. There were a lot of plays and misses or edges that came to nothing yesterday morning from wider deliveries.

alfie wrote:

LivinginItaly wrote:My one concern is that England will bat too aggressively on this pitch taking too many risks, which could see them being all out for about 400 compared to australia's probable total of 600. On this pitch we need cook, balance and bell to occupy the crease and grind down the opposition with big long patient innings, jumping on any bad balls, but not taking huge risks. Many of england's lower order i fear are suited to attacking and taking the game away From the opposition in a session or two, but maybe they don't have the mentality for a more traditional test match innings where occupying the crease and using up time is everybit as important as scoring runs

I do share some of those concerns. However , provided the early bats can build a serious platform it may well be that the later order will be able to prosper , playing their natural aggressive game.. They mightn't need to bat two days if the like of Stokes and Buttler can have a few hours at the crease scoring rapidly... Certainly might not work ; but they're arguably better off playing naturally rather than trying to mimic Boycott or Tavare

Presuming they ever get to bat , that is...

Agree the middle and lower order need to bat naturally and not go into their shells, whilst also not giving away their wicket to a moment of madness. Like you say, this is much easier to do if the top order have laid a good solid foundation to the innings and sapped the sting from the aussie bowlers. Stokes coming in at 300-4 would be completely different proposition to 200-4.

Gooseberry wrote:As we were saying Broads pace and movement is just too much for this weak Aussie batting line up to handle. 2-0 is on.

Thought you were Duty there for a moment.

I didn't realise they played cricket in Cornwall.
They should have a separate Test side anyway with a smuggling trawler and a couple of gulls on their coat of arms.

The Loaded Dog wrote:Come on Alfie. Let's not speculate.

You have Gem Ch 209? It's on a free to air channel as always.

No I don't , actually , LD. My TV comes via Foxtel cable , and I am not such a fanatical television watcher as to invest in the HD channels. Theoretically I could switch off the foxtel and instal an aerial to watch it that way ; but we are in a bit of a "dead" spot for aerials ...all too hard. When it isn't on nine , I'm relying on streaming...

At least that means I don't usually have to listen to Healy

This test is still winnable for England...but they need the last 8 wickets for around 130 runs or less.

alfie wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:Come on Alfie. Let's not speculate.

You have Gem Ch 209? It's on a free to air channel as always.

No I don't , actually , LD.  My TV comes via Foxtel cable , and I am not such a fanatical television watcher as to invest in the HD channels.  Theoretically I could switch off the foxtel and instal an aerial to watch it that way ; but we are in a bit of a "dead" spot for aerials ...all too hard.  When it isn't on nine , I'm relying on streaming...

At least that means I don't usually have to listen to Healy  

I have foxtel too but the others are part of the free broadcasting service. If you have an HD tv... can't you tune them on "tv" mode?
So you don't get SBS 2 either, I presume? At least you owe yourself some of that. Some interesting movies & docos on there.

Pleasant day's viewing yesterday. Memories of days gone by watching that. Need to amass something decent today.

Apparently Chris Jordan is in the ground. He seemed to enjoy standing around watching the England players try and win games without any help from him when he was in the team.

The Loaded Dog wrote:

alfie wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:Come on Alfie. Let's not speculate.

You have Gem Ch 209? It's on a free to air channel as always.

No I don't , actually , LD.  My TV comes via Foxtel cable , and I am not such a fanatical television watcher as to invest in the HD channels.  Theoretically I could switch off the foxtel and instal an aerial to watch it that way ; but we are in a bit of a "dead" spot for aerials ...all too hard.  When it isn't on nine , I'm relying on streaming...

At least that means I don't usually have to listen to Healy  

I have foxtel too but the others are part of the free broadcasting service. If you have an HD tv... can't you tune them on "tv" mode?
So you don't get SBS 2 either, I presume? At least you owe yourself some of that. Some interesting movies & docos on there.

Pleasant day's viewing yesterday. Memories of days gone by watching that. Need to amass something decent today.

Blimey , LD : how many do you want ? Reckon "decent" is pretty much a given from here...  They can hardly fall short of 500 and if they can't force a result from there ...well the pitch wins.

I get SBS 2 , just not the HD version. Just as well , for Le Tour among other things.  But all this tuning via TV mode is a bit much for a technophobe like me...

Thank goodness, Alfie.
I was getting worried you might live out near Coldstream... or worse still, Hanging Rock where the reception must be pretty poor.

There is some rain forecast over the weekend now, not enough to save england on its own but clouds/silver lining

The thought of England keeping Aus from a huge total looks pretty far fetched now though. Woods starting to leak runs, Clarke is looking settled, new ball is not so new.
Sadly Broads accuracy today hasnt been rewarded as much as it needed to be.

[quote="Gooseberry"]Hats off to Broad, Stokes and Wood for all managing to put down deliveries over 90mph on such an unbelivably slow pitch.]

On Australian tv , we have just been shown a chart of Stokes' speeds over day one ; indicating a fastest delivery of just 137.5 kmph : well short of 90 m ! Less than I'd have thought , to be honest.
Two different speed guns ?

The thing is , it isn't just the speed through the air : the few balls that were edged yesterday were dying short of slips. Will the Australian bowlers get more out of it ? We will see eventually I suppose ; though with just one falling in the first hour today it might not be for a while yet...

Clarke out ...he struggled this morning , to be honest. Perhaps shows how well Rogers and Smith played.

Fair reward for some good bowling for Wood

Bet Watson is cheesed off having to watch this instead of getting ready to be next up to dig in...

Rogers cut and Clarke out to short balls. No doubt the Aussies in the commentary box will be complaining about the pace and bounce on the pitch today

Stokes' lack of luck with the ball continues : that was a pretty good shout - and a pretty good review after being turned down ; but stays with the not out by millimetres...

England have bowled well this morning. Probably deserved more than two wickets ; but that's life.

Its funny how yestwerday the slow pitch was to blame for everything, yet today they are bowling slower and unlucky not to get more wickets despite already getting twice as many in 20 as they managed in 90 overs.
Damn that pitch.

Gooseberry wrote:Its funny how yestwerday the slow pitch was to blame for everything, yet today they are bowling slower and unlucky not to get more wickets despite already getting twice as many in 20 as they managed in 90 overs.
Damn that pitch.

Now you're getting too cryptic for me Gooseberry... Not sure whether you're gunning for commentators , groundsmen or bowlers there...

Slow pitch or no you'd have to say the Australian bats have overachieved so far. I do think England have come back quite well this morning considering the situation. Not sure they'll be able to hold back the expected flood of runs after lunch though.
I might have to mute Warne.

To be quite honest I am quite glad we haven't seen many aussie wickets fall today. It's not that I revel in seeing England being pasted, rather I want to hope that the track is an absolute road and that England will also be able to make a big first innings score. Meaning that, with some rain interruptions over the weekend, this game will amble towards a nice, comfortable draw on Monday without any of the nail-biting tension that is usually involved when England are trying to save a game.

Not a chance , LivinginItaly

You know England don't do nice comfortable draws. Either going to get slaughtered in four days ; conjure a miraculous win after scoring 550 at five per over ; lose heavily around tea on Monday with a clatter of second innings wickets or hang on with Wood and Anderson surviving the last three overs...

Or it might rain.

Being serious again : a pretty even session. England battled hard and kept things in check : but they are going to have to hope a few things go their way after lunch or the Aussies are likely to cash in on the solid work of Smith and Voges this morning.
Think this is actually about what Australia wanted from the first session : the only thing likely to seriously derail their plans was a clatter of four/five wickets to the new ball.
Now even if England can get past these two and Marsh the bowlers and the new keeper are well capable of piling on the agony , under no pressure.

Whichever way you cut it , England are going to need to bat very well , slow pitch or not.

Haven't been able to watch this morning but seems that England have done pretty well in the circumstances although not well enough to get back into the match (a very optimistic hope since sometime yesterday).

Bowlers and fielders just need to stick at it and maintain concentration for the next session. Real challenge though will be when it's our time to bat - maybe around 5 o'clock .... don't want us being 43/3 first dig in this one and Root giving the keeper catching practice!

alfie wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Its funny how yestwerday the slow pitch was to blame for everything, yet today they are bowling slower and unlucky not to get more wickets despite already getting twice as many in 20 as they managed in 90 overs.
Damn that pitch.

Now you're getting too cryptic for me Gooseberry... Not sure whether you're gunning for commentators , groundsmen or bowlers there...

Slow pitch or no you'd have to say the Australian bats have overachieved so far.  I do think England have come back quite well this morning considering the situation. Not sure they'll be able to hold back the expected flood of runs after lunch though.
I might have to mute Warne.

That was kind of my point hideen amongst sarcasm. Theres no question its a batsmans pitch but Australias batting and Englands tactics yesterday are just as much to "blame" for the score.
Im just sick of the blind repeated mantra by commentators and armchair pundits alike that its somehow a doctored surface that has singlehandedly ruined cricket forever. The deadness of the pitch and its level of infleunce on this remarkable innings is being blown out of proportion.
It isnt and hasnt.

In terms of this game it really comes down to whether or not England can control australias socring after lunch and  bat out 120+ overs first up.

When it comes to declarations, and potentially a choice to enforce a follow on, we may have some tough choices for Aus. Sunday is now forecast to rain pretty much all day, and some around on Monday. England should have deccent batting weather this afternoon and tomorrow so time may well become an issue if Austrlia over bat and if England can take advantage of this unbelivably slow bounless pitch on which the middle paced Anderson managed to injure Rogers with a bouncer.

Broad chipping away - the best of the English bowlers.

Can't argue too much with that , Gooseberry. Think there is a tendency to condemn pitches out of hand if balls aren't flying to the slips from the off. Possibly because modern pitches do seem to be ever moving in favour of the batsman. But it's also true we get a lot of results , so...

I didn't actually see the morning session yesterday. Is it that there is a bit more pace in it today , or do you think England have got their lengths better ?

And a nice start after lunch with the excellent Broad removing Voges : any chance of shifting Smith , short of dynamite ?

I wouldve liked to have seen Broad add to the chirping by Vogueing in response to that wicket. At leats it would be mildly more entertaining than watching Australais middle order prove have limp they are.

Duty281 wrote:Broad chipping away - the best of the English bowlers.

By a long way. Was yesterday too , though he got no joy from it. Need to "chip" a few more this afternoon if they want to keep this under 550.

Another one for Broad !

Proving Marsh is rubbish ...Watson would have made a hundred , for sure

Not sure Australia will be exactly panicking over this "collapse"

Broad smiles all round.

Who said Aus bat deep? Cmon who was it?

Ah Watson is relieved.

Chip some more, England.

I'm unsure whether it would have been worse for Watson if Marsh had been lbw!

Definite spin for Moeen in that over. Lyon King watching?

Looks like Aus have decided to win the game. Scoring rate has shot up since Marsh went. I guess they are looking at declare or bust at or soon after tea.

Good bowling from Broad . He really has been impressive in this innings.
Took him a while to come back after his injury concerns : surely a factor in his underwhelming World Cup ? But he seems back to his best now ; and may have quite an effect on this series as it goes on.

Neville has started OK and Broad has to rest now. So England need someone else to chip in...

Anderson giving Nevill a couple of uncomfortable moments there ; which suggests there is something there for the bowlers , at least today.
Warne is saying plenty in it ; which sounds like wishful thinking. But I do think it has quickened up a little from yesterday.

39 overs today for 135/4 . Not racing away with it yet then. But plenty of time left today.

Really going to have to mute Warne.

Can't blame him being confident . But his cheer leading is becoming tiresome.
Prefer listening to him when England are 350/4.

No luck with the close lbws here England .

That looked out live. Umpire not interested and Neville survives on a minuscule "umpires call" margin.

Don't mind as long as they're consistent.