England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

by **LondonTiger** Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

England

Lyth
Cook
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson

Australia

Prob Team:

Warner
Rogers
Smith
Clarke
Voges
Marsh
Nevill
Johnson
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood

Officials

Umpires - HDPK Dharmasena and M Erasmus
TV umpire - CB Gaffaney
Match referee - RS Madugalle
Reserve umpire - AG Wharf

by dyrewolfe Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:12 pm

Oh Christ! Root gone as well!

Innings defeat for certain now.

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:15 pm

flat pitch becomes a minefield.

were the aussies just toying with eng in that first test?

it's what everyone expected though, eng just aren't very good but I guess the first test surprise makes it more disappointing. the best way to view that is an unexpected reprieve.

by alfie Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:23 pm

Has been some excellent fast , full bowling in this innings...and the swing has really tested the batsmen - with the added pressure of a 566 target.
Has to be said though : some poor batting in response. Even Root culpable today.

You can see why Chappell was pushing for Root to bat at three when this early collapse occurs with such regularity. Though whether it would have helped today is hard to say.
Certainly nothing that has happened in this match so far has changed my opinion that the key to the Ashes is whether England can get through the first three Australian wickets often enough to offset the fact that their own middle order can't save them every time...

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:26 pm

maybe that shows eng would could use some quicker bowlers?

by alfie Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:29 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:Unless Cook and Root can emulate Rogers and Smith you sense England are doomed to follow on some time tomorrow and suffer a humiliating innings defeat.

What the hell happened to our bowling?

In a word (well , three words ) : Rogers and Smith.

Apart from their partnership , England's bowlers did rather well on an unresponsive pitch. But those two played beautifully ; and it has all followed from that.

Innings or not , it looks like a loss coming up. I don't expect the management to panic though - although I'm sure the press will Smile

by subhranshu.kumar.5 Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:35 pm

What is happening at the Lord's. Yesterday seems like they were playing on road and suddenly there is a twist today.

Well Its the situation that English Batsmen are unable to handle. Seems like they need more time in pressure situation.

Cook is required to show his old show today. The English run machine needs to stick to wicket. Pitch is still favorable for batting.

by alfie Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:38 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:maybe that shows eng would could use some quicker bowlers?

You got any up your sleeve , trebs ?

I honestly don't think having a 150 kmph bowler is essential. If England can bat well enough , as they did in Cardiff , I reckon their bowlers will do the job - Australia's batting is loaded at the top , and as we saw there , three down can go to all out quite quickly.
Trouble is ; if the pitches are flat as this one , Australia will generally score reasonably well when they bat first - if not as big as this match ! And I'm not sure England bat so well going in second...

But let's see where it goes from here. I'm not calling the series result from these two days any more than I was ready to after a comfortable England win at Cardiff.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:54 pm

Pitch hasn't changed - fact that they got the ball to swing was our undoing

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:57 pm

Big fan of stokes coming in at 40-4 and Muppet it all over the park

by alfie Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:00 pm

He's always good to watch , eh , Olly ?

Could do with him "Muppetting" it all over the place for about five or six hours from here Smile

Also be nice not to be 40/3 for a change...

by NickisBHAFC Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:01 pm

Suspect Cook will go by end of play.

Lot of pressure on Stokes and Buttler to save us.

by kingraf Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:03 pm

Stokes putting on a good counter. And just as
well because he needs to start justifying his
place in the team as a batter, because the all
rounder shtick is not flying.

by alfie Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:04 pm

Olly wrote:Pitch hasn't changed - fact that they got the ball to swing was our undoing

Too true. I didn't see the early play yesterday : was there much swing happening for England in that first hour or so ? Suppose the atmospherics might have been a bit different...

by kingraf Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:07 pm

Looking at the highlights package, Hazlewood's deliveru to remove Bell seems like the ball of the year? Reminiscent of a certain Glenn Mcgrath

by alfie Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:12 pm

kingraf wrote:Stokes putting on a good counter. And just as
well because he needs to start justifying his
place in the team as a batter, because the all
rounder shtick is not flying.

Haha raf , you are steadfast in your views , I see.

Not denying he needs to show he's a true top six player. Which he has arguably been doing in recent matches. But I reckon his bowling is better than you are allowing. He seems to me to be improving ; and I think it's fair to say hes been devoid of luck lately. Wouldn't play in a four man attack : but as a fourth seamer I think he has value - certainly enough to be a clear selection at the moment.

He will need to get better of course...hopefully will be blossoming nicely in time to sort out South Africa in a few months devil

by kingraf Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:24 pm

Fair enough Alfie. His certainly seemed to improve with the bat this year. I'm not convinced by him yet though. But I thought Steven Smith was a "bit of both, not much of either" type cricketer, so I've been wrong before.

Ten minutes to go, I reckon Clarke should just go all out for that one precious wicket.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:28 pm

I'd have been half tempted to give Steve Smith that last over

by kingraf Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:28 pm

As for the SA tour, I remember telling Mystiroakey in 2013 that you guys might catch us at the right time. I thought Kallis would be gone, but I couldn't have imagined Smith and Petersen retiring. Mind you, I also said that assuming the nucleus of the England squad at the time would be there. They aren't. Interesting series, but much can happen before then. You've got an Ashes to try win, a UAE tour to doubtless get whitewashed in and we've got an Indian tour to negotiate.

by alfie Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:30 pm

Good solid stand for 55 by these two ... But Australia right on top in the match.
Guess if they can bat to tea tomorrow they'll save the follow on.

Then it rains most of Sunday Smile

Goodnight all and well played Aussies again.

by Gooseberry Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:34 pm

kingraf wrote:Stokes putting on a good counter. And just as
well because he needs to start justifying his
place in the team as a batter, because the all
rounder shtick is not flying.

Thats nothing new to be fair. Thing is he really has been justifying his place with the at this year, certainly more so than Lyth, ballance and bell who all go in above him. Hes also put in a couple of very good spells with the all during his career and averages about the same as wood whos trying to pass himself off as a specialist
Right now theres at least 4 players who should e more concered about their places

by alfie Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:35 pm

kingraf wrote:As for the SA tour, I remember telling Mystiroakey in 2013 that you guys might catch us at the right time. I thought Kallis would be gone, but I couldn't have imagined Smith and Petersen retiring. Mind you, I also said that assuming the nucleus of the England squad at the time would be there. They aren't. Interesting series, but much can happen before then. You've got an Ashes to try win, a UAE tour to doubtless get whitewashed in and we've got an Indian tour to negotiate.

Very true. And I don't really want to think that far ahead , to be honest - lots of other interesting cricket to be played first.
But I must admit I do look forward to the series - has been a bit too long since England travelled to your country ...a quirk of the touring programme I guess.

by CaledonianCraig Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:04 pm

I only caught about the last hour of play but the scoreboard says its all. Australia look like red hot favourites to level the series at 1-1. The only hope for England is that they bat deep into tomorrow and avoid the follow on but with four wickets already down I'd say England will be doing well to score 300 from here.

I won't see any of tomorrow's play but my road map for tomorrow as far as Australia are concerned are to have reduced England to around 200 for 7 at lunch and to have bowled them out midway through tomorrow for 250. I don't see them enforcing the follow on for some reason and think they'll look to be around 200 for 3 at close with a lead nearing 500 going into the fourth day.

England's optimistic road map will hope they can get through to lunch on around 200 for 5, reach tea on around 320 for 7 and reach 400 nearing the end of play when they will be bowled out. A quick run at the Aussies and they'd want a quick breakthrough with Australia around 10 for 1 at close with a lead approaching 150.

by sirfredperry Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:33 pm

Why were people, including Boycott, saying England could draw this match after day one? Have they not watched/played ANY cricket in the last decades? How many times have we seen a side make 500 or 600 on a seemingly dead pitch and then, due to scoreboard pressure, rip through their opponents.
I'm just back from Lord's and I doubt there were many in the crowd that thought England would make a good fist of it when Lyth and Cook went out to bat.
At least Eng have done better than 1993 at Lord's when they managed to take only four Aus wickets in the match.

by kingraf Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:35 pm

For Aus, I think they'll enforce the follow on. Under general conditions, they probably wouldn't, especially with Mitchell Starc probably only at 80% or whatever. But with rain forecast for Sunday(?) I think there's an accent on making sure that the they get 20 wickets

by CaledonianCraig Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:55 pm

kingraf wrote:For Aus, I think they'll enforce the follow on. Under general conditions, they probably wouldn't, especially with Mitchell Starc probably only at 80% or whatever. But with rain forecast for Sunday(?) I think there's an accent on making sure that the they get 20 wickets

Oh right. Never knew about the rain forecast. In that case then they will be keen to enforce the follow-on.

by msp83 Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:30 pm

Another day dominated by the Australians. Smith scored that double hundred that he missed recently in the West Indies by a run, becoming the first Australian after Jason Gillespie to score a away test double ton. There were Contributions from Nevill and the rest of the lineup though Clarke's innings was a real struggle.
England bowled better today. Stuart Broad, who bowled well without anything to show for all that on day one ended up with a deserved 4 wickets. Joe Root picking up a couple of wickets to slow Australia just a little bit in the end.
But Clarke declared a touch early than I'd have done in his position, but his bowlers immediately justified their captain's call by smashing through the England top order. Stokes and Cook have given England a supply of some much needed oxygen, but they would need to bat at least a session and a half more to bring life back to the innings. England do bat deep with Ali in at 8 and Broad, Wood and Anderson decent bets in the lower order. But turning this one around will be a very demanding task. England should be looking to go pass 366, that would make the chances of them getting away with a draw much brighter, particularly if the weather is set to play spoilsport during the test.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:05 am

Agnew spot on when he says "I don't see the point in preparing a pitch that makes your own bowlers largely innocuous"

We saw a fantastic pitch prepared here for the New Zealand game earlier this summer - one that offered enough for the bowlers, but rewarded good batting also. This one offers little if any reward for the bowlers, only the overhead and atmospheric conditions producing swing is on their favour.

Sincerely hope they prepare a good pitch at Edgbaston

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:05 am

Oh and also the weather forecast is greatly improved for tomorrow

by LivinginItaly Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:24 am

Here's hoping we can close today on 400-8. Highly unlikely, but you never know. Would go a long way to saving the game.

by VTR Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:55 am

We are toast here I afraid, I suggest gardening or diy is the best way to follow this test i.e. not at all. Check the result on Monday to see howany we lost by

by kingraf Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:57 am

The 90s were not very good to you, were they VTR?

by kingraf Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:00 am

Message body...Anyways, in Germany right now, so I don't think I'll get any of the day's play, but I'll follow here, and on cricinfo, as Duty gives in vain a speech about how following on with over 200 overs left is exactly where England need to be for a win

by Gooseberry Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:43 am

Forecast has changed again, much less rain. Forlorn hope, its all about damage limitation ad trying to wear down the Aus bowlers a bit more with a eye on the last two tests. ell for certain needs a score in the second innings

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:51 am

Let's be fair though this situation is made for Cook - no pressure to score, can just bat time and leave it all day.

by LivinginItaly Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:12 am

VTR wrote:We are toast here I afraid, I suggest gardening or diy is the best way to follow this test i.e. not at all. Check the result on Monday to see howany we lost by

I will try the slowly burning in 38° heat lying next to the swimming pool method whilst enjoying the view of the hot Italian ladies.

by VTR Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:38 am

The 90s were plain awful raf, but I used to watch it nonetheless. The pretend it isn't happening method is something I successfully developed during the 2012 oval test!

by alfie Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:13 am

Olly wrote:Agnew spot on when he says "I don't see the point in preparing a pitch that makes your own bowlers largely innocuous"

We saw a fantastic pitch prepared here for the New Zealand game earlier this summer - one that offered enough for the bowlers, but rewarded good batting also. This one offers little if any reward for the bowlers, only the overhead and atmospheric conditions producing swing is on their favour.

Sincerely hope they prepare a good pitch at Edgbaston

See this is why I just dont believe the theory of Agnew and others that the pitches are being prepared to order of the England management - though this seems to have become almost an accepted idea. It stands to reason that you can't win without bowling your opponent out twice ; so drawing your own bowlers' fangs makes no sense. Especially as a fast swing bowler like Johnson will be less affected by a totally "dead" strip than a bowler who relies on moving the ball off the surface...
Much more likely clubs want five days takings and urge their groundsmen to err on the side of flatness , I reckon.
I too hope for a bit more life at Edgbaston. Bet Anderson and Broad do too.

by alfie Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:30 am

Fifty for Stokes clap

You'd think those who doubted his credentials for batting in the top six are gradually being won over this summer , no ?
A bit of work still needed on the bowling ; but I think he is mounting a case to be a key player for England over the next few years.

Plus he is always entertaining to watch.

by JDizzle Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:31 am

VTR wrote:We are toast here I afraid, I suggest gardening or diy is the best way to follow this test i.e. not at all. Check the result on Sunday morning to see how many we lost by

by alfie Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:44 am

JDizzle wrote:
VTR wrote:We are toast here I afraid, I suggest gardening or diy is the best way to follow this test i.e. not at all. Check the result on Sunday morning to see how many we lost by

The monthly meeting of the Optimist's Club will come to order Very Happy

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:45 am

Remember that time when Ben Stokes literally forgot how to bat for 8 months

by alfie Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:54 am

Aussies thought that worth a review...fair enough I guess , not much to lose. But lbw reviews haven't been getting much joy lately ; and that one just didn't look right to me live ...not surprised it pitched well outside leg.
Hundred partnership for these two. Been a spirited response : but the " dreadful 20 minutes" that preceded it has left a bit too much to do ...

by guildfordbat Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:59 am

Morning all - in all the (admittedly awful) circumstances, a good start to the day by Cook and Stokes. Still very much an uphill task but bat an hour at a time and see if these two can take us to lunch.

Alfie - if you want something none too strenuous to do during the lunch break, have a look at Surrey's scorecard from their t20 game against Somerset last night. Smile

by Duty281 Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:01 pm

Once you override the scoreboard pressure, and the demoralising state of conceding 550+, this pitch is fine to bat on. Absolutely fine. I underrated its flat state pre-match; I expected more life.

And we know, of course we do, that England's top order is soft. So we should be expectant of England avoiding the follow-on after the expected wobble - it would be jolly fine if England could bat the day, too.

England need to give Australia plenty of scorn. And defiance. Slight regard. Contempt.

by alfie Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:07 pm

First hour to England : and we haven't had call to say that much lately Smile

Small comforts , true. I can see why most of the regulars on here have gone gardening ...or tidying up the attic ...or whatever...

by alfie Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:14 pm

Oh I was wrong it seems ...welcome aboard guildford and Duty

I feel less lonely...

Guildford I will definitely review that thread at lunchtime. And Duty ? Perhaps Bayliss might call you in to give the team a pep talk before the next match. Though " contempt " might be a bit strong...

by alfie Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:22 pm

Fifty for Chef clap

Well played skipper. Think we are going to need a few more good hands from Cook this summer to stay in this battle ; as unfortunately the rest of the top order is looking a bit dodgy. Five on down , on the other hand ...

by Duty281 Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:22 pm

Ah, it's taken from Shakespeare's King Henry the Fifth.

A remarkable tale of victory against, seemingly, insurmountable odds - it seems wonderfully apt.

Half-century for the skipper. clap

by guildfordbat Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:28 pm

Smith on now. I was thinking the same as Olly last night - would have given him the final over then.

Anyway, nothing to lose now by giving him 2 or 3 overs .... just hope Stokes doesn't do a ''Warner''!

by guildfordbat Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:33 pm

alfie wrote:Oh I was wrong it seems ...welcome aboard guildford and Duty

I feel less lonely...

Guildford I will definitely review that thread at lunchtime. And Duty ? Perhaps Bayliss might call you in to give the team a pep talk before the next match. Though " contempt " might be a bit strong...

Cheers, Alfie. I said Kent originally, it was actually against Somerset last night, now corrected. Cricinfo scorecard and report probably best place to go.

Meanwhile, these two get through another half-hour - one more to survive until lunch. Admittedly, I haven't watched it all today but I haven't seen them troubled.

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