England v Australia, 2nd Test: Lords, 16th-20th July

First topic message reminder :

England

Lyth
Cook
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson


Australia

Prob Team:

Warner
Rogers
Smith
Clarke
Voges
Marsh
Nevill
Johnson
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood



Officials

Umpires - HDPK Dharmasena and M Erasmus
TV umpire - CB Gaffaney
Match referee - RS Madugalle
Reserve umpire - AG Wharf

alfie wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:oh dear. bit of a gulf between these two after all.

In this match , yes.  But fear not : England will bounce back at Edgbaston.  Confidence !

Can your reverse jinxes conjure up bad weather , Trebell ? Just a thought...

I don't think so, it's set fair up there with no hope of rain. England will never win again (extreme but it's got to be worth a try?)

OK looks like Australia will finish today about 350 ahead ; with most (all ?) wickets in hand.
So barring time loss to rain , they'll be pretty sure of a five hundred lead with a day and a half to play. I find third innings in these circumstances a bit tedious , to be honest ; sort of a postponement of the inevitable . So I think I'll bid everyone goodnight. Cheers...

Alfie - yeah, go along with all that.

Australia 362 ahead at the close with all wickets in hand. Real next question is when will they declare tomorrow? My guess would be about 12.30 so as to give us a tricky 20 minutes before lunch and an impossible target around 500.

We didn't do badly with the bat today but the starting point was always unacceptable.

I never saw today's play but it would seem that the middle to lower order batted better than the higher order or England but it wasn't enough to dig them out of the chasm they are in. If Australia do not win this test now I'd be gobsmacked.

Pretty irrelevant at this stage but the road map for Australia will be to bat until just before lunch with a lead around 500 and perhaps get a wicket before lunch with England around 10 for 1. The afternoon session they'd hope to have England reduced to around 100 for 4 and by tea have England on the brink of defeat at around 200 for 7.

England's road map will be to try to stretch the Australian innings out but I am sure even if they do they'll still be batting after lunch chasing around 550. They will know they cannot afford another early collapse and will hop to get to tea on no less than 75 for 1. They'd then hope to close no worse than 175 for 3.

I do think this is Test is a lost cause now but it ensures a very interesting series continues to build.

Just back from Lord's. Terrific innings from Cook and Stokes. Both deserved hundreds.
Just really a question now of how many runs England lose by. Lots of questions for England. Is Lyth the answer, have bowlers rumbled Ballance, should Bell stay in the team, how long can they expect Ali to be the main spinner.

With Lyth I said this would happen and I've been proven right. The tour of West Indies should have seen Lyth making his debut rather than the washed up Trott. Even after flopping in the First Test in the Carribean they stuck with Trott. Lyth should have been in giving him slightly more experience and it may have allowed him to better assess if he was the man for the job long-term or not but that chance was passed up. Now after a sticky start in the Ashes people are going to be calling for him to be chopped so adding a bit of unsettled nature to the side. Admittedly, he hasn't shown much apart from one large score and another in the 30s and another in 20s but would it be right to axe him so soon?

Ballance needs to work on his dealing with short deliveries but his average score is certainly not cause for concern. Bell I'd certainly look to replace but it won't happen as he is seen as an integral part of the team regardless of form. Ali has done better than I expected in the series so far so wouldn't contemplate axing him just now and beside Root's additional role as spinner is proving pretty fruitful as well.

I don't think Australia will be declaring before the first session has ended. They'll either declare at the interval, or shortly into the afternoon. England will merely look to keep the run flow down.

Short of capturing 10 wickets in double quick time, England will have to chase 500+. Such is the breadth of time, they may as well go for the runs.

And we all remember Brisbane 2010, yes? Well then...

Didn't look too clever for Rogers there - hope he's ok

Somebody tell Jimmy to stop running on the wicket - we're kinda batting last on it...

Only following on text at present ; but this Rogers incident is a bit of a concern : it was two days ago he was hit on the head - surely he shouldn't be affected now ?
Bit twitchy on this sort of thing after Hughes...

Reckon Cook should just open with Moeen for the rest of the summer.

Yes alfie the natural worry is that it is a side effect from that ball that struck him. Obviously, it would make sense to have him fully checked with scans etc. He could have those done now as there is no need to have him play in the rest of the match.

Meanwhile, it is now all about how many Australia want to set. My prediction of just before lunch is looking good st the moment.

Moeen seems to have Warner's number

Suppose the fact that they're actually holding their catches off his bowling helps...in truth Warner has arguably been lucky to get the runs he has. Channel 9 commentators suggesting a second innings hundred might get him back in the groove for the rest of the series ; but I'm not sure. What I saw of his batting even last night wasn't too convincing - although I didn't watch to the close.

kingraf wrote:Reckon Cook should just open with Moeen for the rest of the summer.

Yeah... and Root to bat at 3.

Indeed, if Root's gonna come in after three overs anyway, might as well have nine wickets in hand when he does

Morning all.

Alfie - don't know if you've seen it now but Cook's catch of Warner was pretty good. Clubbed high and hard. Understandably though, extremely little celebration.

Australia looking as if they're about to crack on from here.

Agree with your and Craig's concerns and comments about Rogers.

Craig - your prediction of the declaration actually breaches my earlier copyright.

Reckon Aus are gonna bat another hour, and then chuck England in.

Outside of Steve Waugh going from chucking bumpers at Viv Richards to the #1 batsman in the world, I don't think anyone in cricket has a more startling before and after picture than Steve Smith

100 in a session on for Smith.

guildfordbat wrote:Morning all.


Craig - your prediction of the declaration actually breaches my earlier copyright.

Well it was something of a no-brainer though wasnt it?

The Aussies are surely hanging round until lunch now. Given that 450 runs would be hard to chase on this pitch... these runs are small lollies in the grand scheme of things.

We really do have this obsession of covering 417, 434, 438 run chases etc. Are we a tiny wee bit paranoid or what?

Raf, sorry about the rugby, mate. How is Hamburg treating you?

The rate they're going they could pull out before lunch if they want , no ?

Australia are very good at this setting up in a third innings...Warner is usually good value ( although he really should have gone for nought yesterday !) ; but Smith , Clarke , and indeed most of their batsmen seem to have a knack of scoring rapidly to order in this situation.
I know the pressure is right off ; but they seem to be very effective at cashing in - without losing wickets .

Moeen has actually bowled some fairly tidy stuff this morning, as did wood.

I see my rather feeble jinx has managed to dislodge Smith

Better ramp it up : England won't bat the day out ?

Just has the feeling of 202-6 at the close of play tonight

Cheers LD. Lovely place. Weather looking reasonable. Pity its work and not play, my reasons for being here.
As for the rugby. Didn't watch so I'm not too affected. In fact I'd actually forgotten there was a game on until I went on Facebook to see everyone insulting the referee. Brave decision to award the try, though. Didn't look right when I watched it.

These two happy to push singles and play for their average it seems

23 runs at 5.11 an over the partnership, Olly. Hardly coming to a standstill.

alfie wrote:I see my rather feeble jinx has managed to dislodge Smith

Better ramp it up : England won't bat the day out ?

Not sure about that last one Alfie. Think you'll be about 3 or 4 for... for not that much.

273 runs is not a bad contribution from Steve Smith. And at Lord's too!
Now if only we can get Clarke and Marsh to have a sniff of some runs, then you could say all of our batsmen have had a good workout and have gained some confidence in being able to play comfortably and effectively in English conditions.
I can sort of feel a changing of the tides, you know.

Dec. 2/254 lead by 508. Good call... a couple of uneasy overs before lunch. Then the 5 sessions.

Would 100% advocate sending broad out to open just for his incredible ability to waste time

CaledonianCraig wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Morning all.


Craig - your prediction of the declaration actually breaches my earlier copyright.

 Well it was something of a no-brainer though wasnt it?

Craig - without us wanting to get too smug about it, quite a few were saying the dec would be at lunch or shortly after.

Never thought it would be during the interval - don't give the opening batsmen that bit of extra time to prepare.

England set a target of 509 to win. Realistically, it means they have a fraction over five sessions to bat to save the test. Rain is forecast for tomorrow so teally the first priority has to be getting through intil close with no more than 3 or 4 wickets down.

Wanted the 500 , then. And a couple of overs prior to lunch.

So what's that ; 155 overs to get 509 ?

Easy scoring rate at least

Marsh seems more like a sober Symonds than a slightly less able to bat Watson.

Clouds thickening I see...

Makes the toss win even more significant now.
It's like a portent of some kind now with the sun on its last legs.

The Loaded Dog wrote:Clouds thickening I see...

Makes the toss win even more significant now.
It's like a portent of some kind now with the sun on its last legs.

Ah but are those clouds loaded with rain , LD ?

Been known to rain for a couple of days in London sometimes , you know

Lyth could be playing for his place here. Frankly, I think this is a lost cause for England. If it is the expected loss though will England look to make changes?

alfie wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:Clouds thickening I see...

Makes the toss win even more significant now.
It's like a portent of some kind now with the sun on its last legs.

Ah but are those clouds loaded with rain , LD ?

Been known to rain for a couple of days in London sometimes , you know

Not as loaded as the clouds we get here, surely? Let's hope it's just a light sprinkling.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Lyth could be playing for his place here. Frankly, I think this is a lost cause for England. If it is the expected loss though will England look to make changes?

To be replaced by who though Craig?

Hales started the season brilliantly but has faltered recently.

Compton has been consistent whilst showing nothing really deserving of a recall.

Robson has had a poor season thus far.

People can suggest Bairstow but forcing a middle order player into an openers spot is not how you solve top order issues.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Lyth could be playing for his place here. Frankly, I think this is a lost cause for England. If it is the expected loss though will England look to make changes?

Two ways you could look at it , Craig. You might say : got to make a change before its too late - or you could say this one went all wrong but the same team won easily a week or so ago so let it run.

If you did want to make changes though you are going to have to take a bit of a punt on someone new , presumably , to open. Not likely to be going back to Compton , say. I'd expect Lyth has at least another Test to show something. Would help if he gets a score here , certainly.
They might look at Bairstow for the middle order. Let us see how Ballance and Bell play later.

Lunch so the first banana skin is avoided.

Oh I agree king carlos but the vultures are hovering. He needs time but he may not get it I fear.

No chance of rain saving the game for you English boys

That being said you could hit the target you never know. Exciting afternoons cricket lined up anyway

I don't really think rain will bother you , LD.

Australia having a good weekend , eh ? Wallabies sneaking a win at the death with a close video call ...and the Davis Cup boys emerging from their coffin in time to book a semi-final. (Could even be an Ashes clash too if Murray can do the business today.)
Good to see Hewitt showing the kids how to do it.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Oh I agree king carlos but the vultures are hovering. He needs time but he may not get it I fear.

I think he'll get the series.

With Bairstow playing so well Bell and Ballance should be under more pressure. Presuming we crumble here, whether slowly or rapidly, they wont want to make changes to the middle order with the series poised at 1-1. As such I expect the top order will be unchanged for the third test.

However if we see another poor performance in that third test then Ballance or Bell could well be on the block if either gets poor scores in their next 3 innings.

My biggest question mark would be on Bell. Ballance has a healthy average and just needs to work on a way to combat how he plays full length deliveries so can't see his place being in any real jeopardy. Bell though I'd drop (won't happen though) and you could either move Ali up in the batting order and replace Bell with another bowler or do a like-for-like swap bringing in another batsman ie Bairstow.

Ballance's average is dropping at a rate of knots now and you can't judge a player with so few tests on an inflated average anyway, he like Buttler doesn't look up to test cricket in the long term.

If I was English I would have no confidence in Bell for my team and would want him dropped. Agree with Craig though that it wont happen

Knowing my luck he will have a test winning innings now

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Ballance's average is dropping at a rate of knots now and you can't judge a player with so few tests on an inflated average anyway, he like Buttler doesn't look up to test cricket in the long term.

I disagree. He has shown he has the mental aptitude to tough it out even if he is struggling - very handy trait that. He just needs to work on a way to combat his weakness to full length deliveries. You can't go dropping every player once they have a bad test or two and if one has to go just now it would definitely be Bell. He has been out of form now for what seems like aeons.

He has thus far scored 1, 0, 29, 6, 63, 0 and 23 during the Summer tests, hardly the sign of a player toughing it out.

Ballance's average dropping so badly to only a shade over 50 in 25 test innings.

Clearly not good enough that - only the 4 hundreds and 6 half centuries too. Rubbish that