England v Australia: 3rd Test, Edgbaston

First topic message reminder :

England:
A Lyth, AN Cook*, IR Bell, JE Root, JM Bairstow, BA Stokes, JC Buttler†, MM Ali, SCJ Broad, JM Anderson, ST Finn

Australia:
CJL Rogers, DA Warner, SPD Smith, MJ Clarke*, AC Voges, MR Marsh, PM Nevill†, MG Johnson, MA Starc, JR Hazlewood, NM Lyon

What a test. What are the odds btw of an Aussie win? 150 and this gets very squeaky still

25/1.

500/1 for a draw. 1/12 for an English win.

well the game is as good as won for Eng......just the final rites to be completed....perhaps by lunch.

it's a tale of 2 weak batting sides this series......so far.
the one that bats less badly or the one where a star or two shine with the bat win

The win is surely now a formality for England. The bigger question now lies on Jimmy Anderson's injury and who will replace him? I don't think that is any real mystery as if Anderson is forced to miss the 4th Test surely Wood comes straight back in as a replacement as. by all accounts, his ankle injury is nothing serious.

CaledonianCraig wrote:The win is surely now a formality for England. The bigger question now lies on Jimmy Anderson's injury and who will replace him? I don't think that is any real mystery as if Anderson is forced to miss the 4th Test surely Wood comes straight back in as a replacement as. by all accounts, his ankle injury is nothing serious.

Wood is the obvious replacement should Anderson not be fit. Beyond that? Jordan? Woakes? A more left-field selection like Jack Brooks or Chris Rushworth? Possibly Mark Footit who was in the initial 14 man squad for the series?

Id agree Wood is the most likley replacement if hes fit and if Anderson isnt, its quite a worry though if that is the case.

Maybe its time for Stokes to step up, hes avergaing over 90 with the ball this year in 8.5 tests which is simply unnacepatble given that the side is set up to rely on a 4th seamer.
Now he has 3 ducks in a row the "but hes scoring more than the specialist batsmen" argument starts to fall away. Hes becoming a problem again, which is frustrating because w ehave seen glimpses in his career that he is capable of delivering good spells with the ball and capable of scoring proper test centuries ...it just happens far too infrequently.
If Finn and Broad do their job first up he might not even get a chance to bowl at the soft targets today to pad out his record a bit....but frankly its been woeful with the ball this year and cant hide behind pitches anymore.
Slightly concerned about Ali getting spanked again on a pitch where Lyon was far more effective. As with Stokes hes doing enough with the bat to continue to get a place but having two bowlers struggling to stay economical or take wickets is going to be a problem and increasingly so one of the front 3 is injured and misses the next game.


If Clarke were England capatain ( or Ian Bell) how much pressure would he and his spot be under on the internet and in the press right now? 2 scores above 50 since 2013 ...Bells managed that in this series. Voges though is a more relaistic target for replacement in the aussie line . Aside from that theres not much they can do other than blame the pitches (the bowling has been slower in this test than the previous two), get Shane Warne to say something outrageous, and relying on the ridiculous swings of form and fortune in this series.*


*Yes I am getting well ahead of myself and assuming England bag this up without breaking a sweat.

The batting this series has been an enigma. Australia have three outstanding players at the top of the order then eight players most of whom can make useful runs but who seem rarely to make really big contributions (tempting fate? I hope I haven't just given Nevile his maiden Ashes hundred today ). England meanwhile have been heavily reliant on numbers 5-9 to steady the ship after early wickets.

Whatever happens today and in the next two Tests, it is already shaping up to be one of the weirder Ashes series with such sudden violent changes in fortune for the two sides. Compelling viewing though.

SimonofSurrey wrote:The batting this series has been an enigma. Australia have three outstanding players at the top of the order then eight players most of whom can make useful runs but who seem rarely to make really big contributions (tempting fate? I hope I haven't just given Nevile his maiden Ashes hundred today ). England meanwhile have been heavily reliant on numbers 5-9 to steady the ship after early wickets.

Whatever happens today and in the next two Tests, it is already shaping up to be one of the weirder Ashes series with such sudden violent changes in fortune for the two sides. Compelling viewing though.

Yep it really is hard to fathom. If England win here (and they better had do from this position!) I would still like the batting to be looked at. I don't buy not changing a winning team if its clear there are some broken elements in there. Especially with England's recent record, where a bad defeat has followed a win 3 times now.

Areas I would be looking at are Lyth if he is out cheaply again, and Buttler who is badly under-performing with the bat. Also is Moeen too low in the order?

For Australia they need a hard look at Voges, also they might be looking for a holding seamer so does Siddle come in?

Anderson ruled out of the 4th Test and looks likely he'll now miss the rest of the series. A massive blow to England but some time in the not too distant future they are going to have to cope without Anderson permanently.

A big lift though is it isnt a torn intercostal muscle. Theres hope for the fifth test still

Bad news, but not entirely unexpected. He will be a big loss at Trent Bridge.

I guess if Wood is fully fit for the next test then he will slot right back in.

Now today: England will want to wrap this up by lunch, chasing a two-digit score. And Australia will want to - somehow - add another 100 runs and give their bowlers something to defend.

The target for today is simple: no Trent Bridge 2005, and definitely no Headingley 81 revenge!

Re Jimmy, I think a massive loss for Trent Bridge as that's the ground you would expect him to be at his best at. We could do with an out and out swing bowler for that Test, so not sure if Wood is a shoe-in, will be interesting to see who they go with

Ryan Sidebottom.

seanmichaels wrote:Ryan Sidebottom.

Not sure if you are being serious but he is having a good season and can certainly hoop the ball around. Though he did retire from international cricket about 5 years ago, but as a one off you never know!

Jack Brooks is another name I have heard mentioned, though I know about as much about him as the Aussies know about playing the moving ball!

Id be half tempted to bring in another seamer in addition to Jimmys replacement, possibly for Stokes.

seanmichaels wrote:Ryan Sidebottom.

Was just coming on here to say that. He should definitely be under consideration although I'd be wary of the message that would send to those not selected especially when this is the 'new era' for English cricket.

Aussies have started off ominously here. A 150+ run lead on the way.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Aussies have started off ominously here. A 150+ run lead on the way.

Well they are riding the luck they will need, 2 edges and a near chop on in the first 2 overs!

I'd be patient. Get ali on with defensive field and rotate seamers with similarly defensive fields. Make them make the mistake.

England just have to be patient as you say. Older ball isnt doing much and batsmen very much riding their luck

VTR wrote:

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Aussies have started off ominously here. A 150+ run lead on the way.

Well they are riding the luck they will need, 2 edges and a near chop on in the first 2 overs!

Hopefully they've used up all their ration of luck already

I don't wish to be uncharitable to the paying spectators ; but I'd really rather bowl them out in two or three overs and settle this quickly ...don't think England would be too troubled even chasing 150 , but could do without the nervy afternoon...

GSC wrote:England just have to be patient as you say. Older ball isnt doing much and batsmen very much riding their luck

Spot on. A chase of around 100 should present no problem. If it does then England don't deserve to win the Ashes. Simples.

Nevill not walking?

What a filthy, scummy cheat. (You know, going by some Australian fans' logic!)

Wasted reviews cost England ...just had a great legside catch by Buttler missed by the umpire

That Stokes lbw review was a bad mistake ...

*Australian Wicketkeeper as Nevill will now be referred to

Sidebottom would be a huge risk for a 5 day game, he struggled with fitness before he retired. Rikki Clarke has taken 12 more wickets than him this season so far.

Realisticaly its not going to be anyone outside the current group. And may well be determind by weather and likely pitch conditions. (considers mentioning two spinners) Most likely they will want another "county style" pitch, whether they get that or not (along with the cloud cover/humidity, the batting has defiantely gone with the weather here) is another thing.


Meanwhile Broad and Finn are doing their best to bowl austrlia back into the game, maybe Stokes will get to puff his season figures up a bit after all.

I dont think TB is a place for 2 spinners. You'd want an extra swing bowler there more

Lead to 55 already . Not going to be a quick kill then .

England rarely do things the easy way. Am getting the feeling that from the Anderson injury onwards luck seems to have deserted the home team...

Eng have to be careful....everyone on discussions boards and media and commentary boxes have already granted a win to Eng....it shouldn't be too difficult, but they have to take 3 wickets and knock off the runs.

lead is already 58 and a 100 would give the Ausssie bowlers something to bowl at.

Eng have to focus and regain the intensity.....the game is not won unless its won

Aaargh! This is so lucky from them this morning, but they are still there and runs are flowing and I have a feeling the run chase is going to be horrible stuff. But we will win, even if its by 2 wickets

GSC wrote:*Australian Wicketkeeper as Nevill will now be referred to

Well he does share a name with a couple of Man U players ....



There was some guff in the press regarding "disquiet" in the Aussie team regarding his inclussion over Haddin, partly evidenced by evassive answers from guys like Clarke and Rogers who are very close to Braddin. I usually suspect these sorts of things are cooked up by the press rather than real ( like Warner and Rogers hating each other) and its hard to make a convincing case as to why Neville shoudl have lost his place...frankly the change should have been made even if HAddin hadnt chosen to miss the test.
I guess its more an issue that he was encouraged to do it and then effectively ended his career by doing so that may have upset folk in the team who were partly picked to be a tight bunch.

This would pretty much go straight to #1 of worst defeats ever if England lose. They won't though. Just the last kicks of a dying horse.

To be Fair - "Do you think one of your best mates should have been dropped for going to look after his daughter, and his incumbent doing well in his stead?" Would have been a rather complex question for anyone to answer, and not just because it has so many clauses.

KP_fan wrote:Eng have to be careful....everyone on discussions boards and media and commentary boxes  have already granted a win to Eng....it shouldn't be too difficult, but they have to take 3 wickets and knock off the runs.

lead is already 58 and a 100 would give the Ausssie bowlers something to bowl at.

Eng have to focus and regain the intensity.....the game is not won unless its won

Of course.

However, if, from this position England don't seal the win then they can have no complaints when Australia take the urn back home. I foresaw a total of 100+ needed in any case.

As for all talks of replacements for Anderson at Trent Bridge I cannot see them looking anywhere else other than Wood with Plunkett called up as back-up. This set of selectors are most definitely not going to go for a totally untried player such as Footit at a crucial stage of the Ashes Series. No way Pedro (as Delboy would say).

seanmichaels wrote:I'd be patient. Get ali on with defensive field and rotate seamers with similarly defensive fields. Make them make the mistake.

You might have had a point. Trouble is they've already rattled on 40 in half an hour...though in truth England should have had the break by now.
Cook will have to consider the "patient " option. As his two main bowlers can't go all morning. Not sure how much he trusts Moeen in this situation.

Wonder when they will start to get anxious ?

when the lead is 103, obviously.

On another day they'd have bowled them out already. Just remain patient

Oh well Aussie victory on the way. England, without Anderson, will then capitulate in the last two tests 4-1 Australia.

Slowed the down a bit last couple of overs but there has to be a rethink here, apparerently banging it in short or and/or down the leg side isnt working.

TBF theres been chances or near misses and these guys are riding their luck a bit, but in a low scoring game taking risks and leaking runs can really kill you.

KP_fan wrote:Eng have to be careful....everyone on discussions boards and media and commentary boxes  have already granted a win to Eng....it shouldn't be too difficult, but they have to take 3 wickets and knock off the runs.

lead is already 58 and a 100 would give the Ausssie bowlers something to bowl at.

Eng have to focus and regain the intensity.....the game is not won unless its won

Well you declared it all over last night

Starting to look as though they are going to have to make at least 100 ; but batting doesnt look too hard right now and you'd think that shouldn't be too difficult.

I think the intensity is there all right...just the half chances aren't quite turning into anything more. Yet.

Starck has 4 fifities of whihc two are 90s and a batting average of 27....and two of those 50s are 90s.......the've gotta get him asap

No Anderson, no batting strength,, this series is gone.

This is already way out of sight of this brittle team sadly.

Neuville given out - He's reviewing...Gunna be close.

Gooseberry wrote:Sidebottom would be a huge risk for a 5 day game, he struggled with fitness before he retired. Rikki Clarke has taken 12 more wickets than him this season so far.

Sidebottom has played less than half the matches Clarke has. He also has to compete for wickets with the best attack on the county circuit. Brooks (48), Patterson (34), Bresnan (28). I appreciate Clarke is competing with a good attack also, but he doesn't have the international experience of Sidebottom (and at his old stomping ground).

Injuries and fitness issues are obviously important as you say though.

And he's gone.......

Relief! Good keeping by Buttler.

Looking forward to hearing that rare commentary line - "Those are the winning runs for England"

Nevill out this time ! Reviewed it ...proving he is in the great tradition of Evil Australian Wicketkeepers

Welcome break : and good work by Buttler

Craig Overton has 36 wickets. Bresnan possible...

Yes! Finn for a Knighthood!

The Aussies went into childlike howls of outrage on the last tour when Stuart Borad famously didn't walk after they had already wasted both their appeals. In the spirit of fair play, I wonder if they will condemn as vigourously Nevile for not waklking at least twice before he finally was undone today by HotSpot - having not walked again.

I'm not holding my breath.