England v Australia: 3rd Test, Edgbaston

by **Pal Joey** Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:41 am

First topic message reminder :

England:
A Lyth, AN Cook*, IR Bell, JE Root, JM Bairstow, BA Stokes, JC Buttler†, MM Ali, SCJ Broad, JM Anderson, ST Finn

Australia:
CJL Rogers, DA Warner, SPD Smith, MJ Clarke*, AC Voges, MR Marsh, PM Nevill†, MG Johnson, MA Starc, JR Hazlewood, NM Lyon

by CaledonianCraig Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:00 pm

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Lyth out lbw. England 51 for 2. Cue the clambering for him to be axed.

Would it be the worst call? He's played 10 innings, and one century is his only score above 40. Bear in mind that he's played all his tests so far in England, so the conditions at least should be favourable to him.

I think they should stick with him for a while, if they see something in him. However, I don't think he could have such strong complaints were he dropped. Carberry and Compton got axed after a similar number of innings, despite each having a better record, and arguably, harder test careers (Carberry certainly).

Carberry may count himself unfortunate but he is not one for the future as is 35 or is it 36 now? He always felt like something of a stop-gap until either Trott returned or until they got a younger option in. Compton was a very slow scorer at a time when fans and pundits were obsessed with fast scoring and he paid the price for that in the end - again a little unfortunate but the fans were on his case as well.

Now it looks like England will coast to a win here and go 2-1 up so is there an immediate need to force changes on the back of a winning test? I think not. There will already be forced changes due to Anderson's injury so I'd say the best policy is to sit tight with Lyth, show faith in him and re-assess his form at a more appropriate time.

by Gooseberry Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:00 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Lyth out lbw. England 51 for 2. Cue the clambering for him to be axed.
well he has failed continuously but then eng don't have any good openers waiting in the wings so what do they do?

The problem has been magnified by the top order also flopping. He has struggled but is in only his fifth test and his county cricket stats say he is better than any other option out there. In those five tests he already has a century and a half century but it is the numerous low scores people point to. Compton is an option but lest I remember people they hounded him out because he never scored fast enough. I'd stick with Lyth for now as in this test he has spent longer at the crease and got into double figures in both innings (which in this test Clark and Smith would have killed for).

His second highest score is 37 , only once more into the teens. Hes been first out in all but 4 of his innings ( and seocnd in one) ..so you cant really blame the rest of the top order for his problems..if anything its him whos destabilised the top order.
Cook hasnt been in great form but has a century and 3 50s since Lyth started. If you add Bells runs from thsi game to those of Ballance then number 3 has outscored him too.

Again Comptons dropping and exile wasnt down to his scoring rate, it was down to him falling out withe the selectors over an injury.

But I would expect him to get the rest of this series to show a reason to be retained. Its a harsh gig to get two of the 3 best seam attacks in the world to start your test career

by alfie Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:03 pm

GSC wrote:Dont see how Hales would be any worse. Warner style atop the order, put the bowlers on the back foot

That has been my theory for a while. It would be something of a gamble ; but perhaps it might come off once or twice ?
Would lose a bit in the field.

by VTR Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:04 pm

Carberry is 34! Craig, check your facts before posting, you are adding age to Carberry, referring to non-existent county stats and have awarded Lyth a 50 he never made!

by kingraf Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:07 pm

Hazlewood still just about the leading wicket taker for the Ashes. Getting real close to a good pay day.

by CaledonianCraig Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:07 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Lyth out lbw. England 51 for 2. Cue the clambering for him to be axed.
well he has failed continuously but then eng don't have any good openers waiting in the wings so what do they do?

The problem has been magnified by the top order also flopping. He has struggled but is in only his fifth test and his county cricket stats say he is better than any other option out there. In those five tests he already has a century and a half century but it is the numerous low scores people point to. Compton is an option but lest I remember people they hounded him out because he never scored fast enough. I'd stick with Lyth for now as in this test he has spent longer at the crease and got into double figures in both innings (which in this test Clark and Smith would have killed for).

His second highest score is 37 , only once more into the teens. Hes been first out in all but 4 of his innings ( and seocnd in one) ..so you cant really blame the rest of the top order for his problems..if anything its him whos destabilised the top order.
Cook hasnt been in great form but has a century and 3 50s since Lyth started. If you add Bells runs from thsi game to those of Ballance then number 3 has outscored him too.

Again Comptons dropping and exile wasnt down to his scoring rate, it was down to him falling out withe the selectors over an injury.

But I would expect him to get the rest of this series to show a reason to be retained. Its a harsh gig to get two of the 3 best seam attacks in the world to start your test career

Lyth batting in a team with a top order liable to collapse lower down can't be a healthy environment to open in surely. It just heightens the pressure. As for Compton I am more making the point that rewind this and other forums back to the Compton era and fans were adamant he had to be chopped for scoring far too slowly. Compton scores too slowly then for the fans liking and Lyth doesn't score enough mainly because he tries to score quickly by looking to get his bat on ball.

by alfie Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:07 pm

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Lyth out lbw. England 51 for 2. Cue the clambering for him to be axed.

Would it be the worst call? He's played 10 innings, and one century is his only score above 40. Bear in mind that he's played all his tests so far in England, so the conditions at least should be favourable to him.

I think they should stick with him for a while, if they see something in him. However, I don't think he could have such strong complaints were he dropped. Carberry and Compton got axed after a similar number of innings, despite each having a better record, and arguably, harder test careers (Carberry certainly).

Oh, and I tried so hard to resist but the pedant in me has won out - it's "clamouring" (insistent demanding from a group), not "clambering" (awkward climbing). Sorry for that. Even I think I'm a Muppet for that.

I love pedants. However : perhaps Craig means people would be (virtually) clambering over each other to be first to call for his axing devil

by Gooseberry Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:09 pm

alfie wrote:
GSC wrote:Dont see how Hales would be any worse. Warner style atop the order, put the bowlers on the back foot

That has been my theory for a while. It would be something of a gamble ; but perhaps it might come off once or twice ?
Would lose a bit in the field.

For me the danger with Hales is affecting his limited over game. hes still trying to establish himself as a ODI opener (he averages 25 in that format), its a heckins of s jump to tests for a guy with a first class average under 40 to test opener and all the entails in rebuilding his game.

by CaledonianCraig Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:11 pm

VTR wrote:Carberry is 34! Craig, check your facts before posting, you are adding age to Carberry, referring to non-existent county stats and have awarded Lyth a 50 he never made!

So I'd still say that is not the age to be looking to bed a player in for the long haul or a year or two down the line you are back at square one. As for the county stats then shoot pundits as well as pretty positive it is Sky pundits all ex-pros that have made that point about Lyth's stats. Okay so shoot me for giving him a 50 when it was 37 then. Rolling Eyes

by VTR Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:16 pm

Anyway, back to the game and England have managed this chase very nicely. Bell got the scoreboard moving before sitting in to see of Johnson, which was great play as Johnson on a roll is a dangerous customer.

Fair play to Bell, that promotion to number 3 has gone really well

by alfie Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:18 pm

Second fifty in the match for Bell ...

Now , who wanted him dropped ? Smile

(Apart from Clarke )

by CaledonianCraig Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:20 pm

alfie wrote:Second fifty in the match for Bell ...

Now , who wanted him dropped ?

(Apart from Clarke )

CaledonianCraig wrote:https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHr5gdp0MVBKN9H1GpyzQPbp4AToDe9ApRVCUWItzmAkNq8LAC

I am the new Mr Motivator.

This series I was really pushing for Rashid to replace Ali citing a poor run of form for Moeen with the ball. I was pretty insistent he had to be dropped and what happened? Ali weighed in at Cardiff with some useful wickets and a score over 70 with the bat. Before this test I was the same with Ian Bell insisting he had had his day and that he should have been dropped and he weighed in with a half century yesterday as a result that helped steady a rocking ship. Now then who else will I work my magic on?

by Duty281 Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:21 pm

Batting beautifully is Bell. Never doubted his quality.

England nearly there.

by alfie Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:24 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
alfie wrote:Second fifty in the match for Bell ...

Now , who wanted him dropped ?

(Apart from Clarke )

CaledonianCraig wrote:https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHr5gdp0MVBKN9H1GpyzQPbp4AToDe9ApRVCUWItzmAkNq8LAC

I am the new Mr Motivator.

This series I was really pushing for Rashid to replace Ali citing a poor run of form for Moeen with the ball. I was pretty insistent he had to be dropped and what happened? Ali weighed in at Cardiff with some useful wickets and a score over 70 with the bat. Before this test I was the same with Ian Bell insisting he had had his day and that he should have been dropped and he weighed in with a half century yesterday as a result that helped steady a rocking ship. Now then who else will I work my magic on?

Better give Buttler a bit of hurry up...he's keeping OK but I'd like to see some serious runs...

by SimonofSurrey Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:26 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHr5gdp0MVBKN9H1GpyzQPbp4AToDe9ApRVCUWItzmAkNq8LAC

I am the new Mr Motivator.

This series I was really pushing for Rashid to replace Ali citing a poor run of form for Moeen with the ball. I was pretty insistent he had to be dropped and what happened? Ali weighed in at Cardiff with some useful wickets and a score over 70 with the bat. Before this test I was the same with Ian Bell insisting he had had his day and that he should have been dropped and he weighed in with a half century yesterday as a result that helped steady a rocking ship. Now then who else will I work my magic on?

If you can get Lyth to make a hundred, preferably two, next Test (if selected) I shall personally lead a campaign to have you replace T Baylis Yahoo

by alfie Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:32 pm

Something of a relief to see England doing this in some degree of comfort.
Was thinking earlier of the parallels with Trent Bridge 2005... Different first innings set up of course ; but in each game Australia's tail wagged to set England a small but nervy target - after England lost a key bowler during that innings...
That's where the similarities ended - Lyon is OK but he ain't Warne !

Glad Bell got that life in slips , just the same...

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:33 pm

So much of this sport is played in the mind. Contrast their approach here when chasing a small total to win against their approach when needing a big total to save the game; also contrast Aussies attack during the same. Same players, same ability but the pressure is reversed and the whole thing is flipped on it's head.

After Lords I wouldn't have believed Eng could put an assured chase together and would be at risk of the small chase wobbles.

by CaledonianCraig Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:33 pm

SimonofSurrey wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHr5gdp0MVBKN9H1GpyzQPbp4AToDe9ApRVCUWItzmAkNq8LAC

I am the new Mr Motivator.

This series I was really pushing for Rashid to replace Ali citing a poor run of form for Moeen with the ball. I was pretty insistent he had to be dropped and what happened? Ali weighed in at Cardiff with some useful wickets and a score over 70 with the bat. Before this test I was the same with Ian Bell insisting he had had his day and that he should have been dropped and he weighed in with a half century yesterday as a result that helped steady a rocking ship. Now then who else will I work my magic on?

If you can get Lyth to make a hundred, preferably two, next Test (if selected) I shall personally lead a campaign to have you replace T Baylis

Personally, I have to have strong feelings about wanting players dropped and call for them to be axed. It was there with Ali as felt Rashid was an option worth going with. In Bell's case it was the same as there was Bairstow. Openers-wise England are very thin on the ground. If there were to be a change I think Compton merits another chance. As for Buttler well runs from him would be nice but he has kept wicket really well and again I'd say is there a better option out there?

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:35 pm

Has to be said the demons fell out of the pitch after the first day, it was a good game to bowl first in. Aussie got the best of the conditions last time, Engs turn this time.

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:38 pm

ahh the Mitchell Johnson song. I've missed it.

After his help with the mental side he became such a danger man but he still has his moments.

by TightHEAD Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:40 pm

He bowls to the left...He bowls to the rightttttttt...... That Mitchell Johnson...... His bowling is .....!

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:42 pm

a lot better than it used to be.

by Duty281 Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:42 pm

Ah the atmosphere from the English, the greatest fans in the world.

by GSC Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:43 pm

You feel for Johnson sometimes.

Odd, capable of both great hostility and mental fragility

by VTR Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:43 pm

Duty281 wrote:Ah the atmosphere from the English, the greatest fans in the world.

Apart from Lord's where half the people would be too busy in the corporate areas to notice the cricket actually taking place

by msp83 Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:44 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Yep Jimmy is out.

On Ali Im far from hysterical about dropping him and have defended him countless time from the haters like MSP who had him down to fail before he was picked (against India cough)
...but he really hasnt bowled well this year and is keeping his place on batting. Thats a massive problem for your front line spinner. Hes not econical and even with 4 seamers on decent pitches hes still relied upon for a fair number of overs ...and not delivering.

Cherry pick all the performances you like but as with Stokes (who seems far more immune to the same critique, perhaps beause its easier to hide as 1 of 4 seamers and 1 of 6 batsmen)

Yes Ali is coping a disproportinate level of flack but he is replaceable (alomost like for like) and is failing in his primary role, even his good games with the ball are hardly spectacular.
In all the games since his recall this was the lowest number of runs hes conceded (next is 98).
Just as one 50 at the start of the series didnt shut up the Bell doubters one decent game in Cardiff doesnt prove hes entirely back on song or the best option for England long term. The actual quality of his bowling as well as the results isnt great.
Finn too used to get all manner of stick for his bowling of course...but then he has always bought home the bacon in terms of wickets for England. If Ali were taking 6 fors then we'd forgive a bit of waywardness, but he isnt.
Since coming back hes averaged 30 with the bat and 43 with the ball at 4 an over ... no disatourous (and better than Stokes this year) but still worrying for a guy picked as a bowler and very worrying for the balance of the side. Hes been out perfomed by Lyon in all 3 tests too.
As pointed out his batting is likely to be of greater importance at Trent Bridge and theres no real immediate question over his place, but with Anderson out there will be questionmark over Englands attack. It would be very handy if he and/or Stokes could actually turn up to support Broad Finn and whoever else they pick.

Yes its not Englands only problem but its absurd to say noone can critisize his play on the grounds he had one decent game this year. Lyth gets more stick than he does and he actually scored a century and only gets one chance to impress each innings up against the sharp end of the bowling.

By the end of this series if he still isnt delivering with the ball (which has the be the main driver behind picking your only spinner) then a change must be on the cards for the winter, unless they really do have that little faith in Rashid or a tin of custard.

Ali has played some decent innings at 8 and his playing of the short ball has improved. With a non-functional top order, his runs have become even more important. But with the ball he has been average to rubbish as always. By now sides should have figured out that if you don't try hitting him out of the attack but stay patient and look for the inevitable chunk of poor hit me balls, he won't be much of a wicket taking threat and there would be a steady flow of runs.
And comparing him to Nathan Lyon? Please!!!!

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:45 pm

GSC wrote:You feel for Johnson sometimes.

Odd, capable of both great hostility and mental fragility

I don't really. He gets such great moments when he's going well that it more than compensates for the odd down day.

by Duty281 Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:45 pm

VTR wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Ah the atmosphere from the English, the greatest fans in the world.

Apart from Lord's where half the people would be too busy in the corporate areas to notice the cricket actually taking place

Bunch of corporate wan*ers at Lord's.

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:47 pm

Aussie made a serious game of this. I need a year off to recharge my jinx batteries.

The difference when aussie aren't on top is massive though.

by CaledonianCraig Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:52 pm

And England seal the win with just two wickets down. England go 2-1 up but go to Trent Bridge minus Jimmy Anderson.

by alfie Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:52 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:Has to be said the demons fell out of the pitch after the first day, it was a good game to bowl first in. Aussie got the best of the conditions last time, Engs turn this time.

Something in that. Though they chose them...

In truth , England have pretty much outplayed them in all areas in this match - apart from a couple of sessions. I fancy they might have handled batting first rather better...academic though that is now.

Handsome win by eight wickets in time for tea guinness

Or will be in a few seconds...

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:53 pm

great win.

Such a shame to lose the master of swing for the Trent Bridge game. damn.

by Duty281 Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:55 pm

Well done England - two hammerings to one now! clap

Even without Anderson, you have to back England at Trent Bridge.

by CaledonianCraig Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:59 pm

It's been an interesting series so far and exciting. However, it hasn't had a test yet where both teams bring their best performances to the test so the quality hasn't been quite the quality of previous Ashes Series of recent times - as yet. England fully deserved that win but still a long way from job done.

by Steffan Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:02 pm

Gutted with the result. And even more the fact that the cricket is already over for the weekend. Oh well...I just hope that the Aussie boys sort it out for the fourth test and we get a decider

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:02 pm

Got a feeling we will see one of the last two washed out.

by SimonofSurrey Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:05 pm

After Lord's many might not have been surprised when the next Test ended up as a thrashing inside 8 sessions, with a woeful performance from the side who won the toss and batted. But would anyone in their right mind have bet on it being this way round?! Extraordinary turnabout from both sides.

And, is it just me, or - for those with long memories - is that Michael Clarke beginning to look (and bat?) just a bit like that Kim Highes?

by SimonofSurrey Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:09 pm

Steffan wrote:Gutted with the result. And even more the fact that the cricket is already over for the weekend. Oh well...I just hope that the Aussie boys sort it out for the fourth test and we get a decider

Steffan - since Oz only need to draw the series to retain the Ashes, I make it we are guaranteed a (series) decider in the Final Test unless Oz lose the Fourth Test.

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:10 pm

amazing aussie decided to bat first on a swinging pitch against Anderson.. pretty dumb really from the kings of cricket.

by msp83 Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:10 pm

Fine win for England. They didn't mess up the 4th innings chase as do at times, right approach, staying positive....... Ian Bell has had a bit of luck, but the nothing to lose situation going into the game has helped him play a positive game and he managed a couple of decent scores that should help him build his confidence. His runs coming in at 3 really helped stabilize the top order. Joe Root batted like England's best current batsman that he is. and Moeen Ali's lower order runs and the first innings partnership he had with Stuart Broad has been a decisive factor in the game.
James Anderson was back to his best when at last he could bowl on a proper pitch. and Steven Finn, send packing as unselectable in 2014 has made a heroic return to test cricket that even his ardent supporters weren't expecting at this time though hoping for it all the time.......

by VTR Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:13 pm

Steffan wrote:Gutted with the result. And even more the fact that the cricket is already over for the weekend. Oh well...I just hope that the Aussie boys sort it out for the fourth test and we get a decider

Can someone ban this clown again? Waits for the moment of victory to come trolling. Absolute b£ll£nd

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:14 pm

Lets hope we get a green top at Trent.

Aussie love a flat one as Boycott is saying.

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:15 pm

I am very confused listening to that pup chap, he keeps telling me to look whenever he is asked a question.. i'm confused as I don't know what to look at.

I've settled on looking at my cats.

by Steffan Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:16 pm

VTR wrote:
Steffan wrote:Gutted with the result. And even more the fact that the cricket is already over for the weekend. Oh well...I just hope that the Aussie boys sort it out for the fourth test and we get a decider

Can someone ban this clown again? Waits for the moment of victory to come trolling. Absolute b£ll£nd

I'm not trolling. I'm just disappointed that we lost. Well done to England though they played well and deserved their victory. Hardly a banning offence to cheer on the Aussies. I just wish that the game didn't finish so quick as I was looking forward to a weekend of cricket Smile

by VTR Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:17 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:I am very confused listening to that pup chap, he keeps telling me to look whenever he is asked a question.. i'm confused as I don't know what to look at.

I've settled on looking at my cats.

He wants you to "look" in the other direction when he is batting!

by VTR Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:19 pm

Steffan wrote:
VTR wrote:
Steffan wrote:Gutted with the result. And even more the fact that the cricket is already over for the weekend. Oh well...I just hope that the Aussie boys sort it out for the fourth test and we get a decider

Can someone ban this clown again? Waits for the moment of victory to come trolling. Absolute b£ll£nd
I'm not trolling. I'm just disappointed that we lost. Well done to England though they played well and deserved their victory. Hardly a banning offence to cheer on the Aussies. I just wish that the game didn't finish so quick as I was looking forward to a weekend of cricket

We? Australia and Wales out there is it? No

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:19 pm

VTR wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:I am very confused listening to that pup chap, he keeps telling me to look whenever he is asked a question.. i'm confused as I don't know what to look at.

I've settled on looking at my cats.

He wants you to "look" in the other direction when he is batting!

Got it!

by trebellbobaggins Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:22 pm

VTR wrote:
Steffan wrote:
VTR wrote:
Steffan wrote:Gutted with the result. And even more the fact that the cricket is already over for the weekend. Oh well...I just hope that the Aussie boys sort it out for the fourth test and we get a decider

Can someone ban this clown again? Waits for the moment of victory to come trolling. Absolute b£ll£nd
I'm not trolling. I'm just disappointed that we lost. Well done to England though they played well and deserved their victory. Hardly a banning offence to cheer on the Aussies. I just wish that the game didn't finish so quick as I was looking forward to a weekend of cricket

We? Australia and Wales out there is it? No

is a Welshman supporting Aussie against the England and Wales cricket team?

dude don't hand over your loyalty so cheaply.

by alfie Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:23 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:amazing aussie decided to bat first on a swinging pitch against Anderson.. pretty dumb really from the kings of cricket.

Actually was more wobble seam than Swing on day one ...certainly wasn't a 136 all out pitch. I think both these teams really prefer batting first , and will generally do so unless the pitch looks positively Evil .
I doubt we will see a green top at TB remembering last year when both number elevens threatened to score centuries... Especially with Jimmy missing I reckon chef will be hoping to win the toss...

Bottom line : two matches to go - England win either of them and they take the Ashes...we'd all have taken that before Cardiff , eh ?

by SimonofSurrey Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:24 pm

VTR wrote:
Steffan wrote:
VTR wrote:
Steffan wrote:Gutted with the result. And even more the fact that the cricket is already over for the weekend. Oh well...I just hope that the Aussie boys sort it out for the fourth test and we get a decider

Can someone ban this clown again? Waits for the moment of victory to come trolling. Absolute b£ll£nd
I'm not trolling. I'm just disappointed that we lost. Well done to England though they played well and deserved their victory. Hardly a banning offence to cheer on the Aussies. I just wish that the game didn't finish so quick as I was looking forward to a weekend of cricket

We? Australia and Wales out there is it? No

Trolling (or not) aside, the Fifth Test WILL be a series decider unless Australia lose the next one.

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