England vs Australia 4th Test, Trent Bridge

First topic message reminder :

As The Ashes thread has gone on a tangent arguing over who is SA's best fast bowler, let's get back on topic with a match thread.

Conditions for the 5 days look generally dry so there will be an almost certain result for either team. Also looking cloudy for large periods, so the loss of Anderson might be huge for England

England: Cook, Lyth, Bell, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Broad, Wood, Finn

Australia: Rogers, Warner, Smith, S Marsh, Clarke, Voges, Nevill, Johnson, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon

kingraf wrote:I think the nerves are because there is still so much time left in the game, that Australia could ostensibly be 150 behind, and still have good enough batting conditions to make a real fist of it.

Won't happen though.

exactly. skittle England with the best team in the world and then bat to a 500 total and skittle them again.

best team in the world can not lose.

Duty281 wrote:Lyth is an irritation.

Surely cannot take him to the U.A.E. in this form; similarly, you surely cannot pick a new opener to bed in on the subcontinent.

Is a recall for Compton about to become viable?

is this one too many failures? drop him for the Oval and look at someone else?

dummy_half wrote:Why, even after this morning, am I still nervous? Will start to feel a bit happier if these two can take us ahead of the Aussies and start to build a partnership.

I can't shake the feeling though that if Broad can run through a side here, the Aussie bowlers have the potential to do the same.

You are nervous because you are an England supporter. It is part of your DNA

And because even with a decent first innings lead , the side batting second isn't guaranteed a win. Unless the lead is crushing , the other team can get back into it second time around.
Though when that team is low on batting confidence , that might be unlikely.

England still need to bat well to back up that bowling effort. Australia have had a good hour since lunch ; and there is a bit of pressure on the batsmen at the moment.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Lyth is an irritation.

Surely cannot take him to the U.A.E. in this form; similarly, you surely cannot pick a new opener to bed in on the subcontinent.

Is a recall for Compton about to become viable?

is this one too many failures? drop him for the Oval and look at someone else?

Um...give him one more chance. One more! You never know, after all.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/7310925.stm

kingraf wrote:I think the nerves are because there is still so much time left in the game, that Australia could ostensibly be 150 behind, and still have good enough batting conditions to make a real fist of it.

Won't happen though.

I agree that I can't see it happening. The Australian batsmen are short on confidence and will be under immense scoreboard and series pressure to boot. Besides if you look at this series the tests haven't really swung (momentum-wise) one way then another. Once a team has got on top they have romped away with the test so I can't see that changing here especially with this Australian team now seemingly in mental turmoil.

A brace of boundaries for Root and England are in the lead...

How often has a team taken a first innings lead after three hours of a Test Match ?

Shame to see Bell fail. This was a good opportunity to stamp some authority and give England a chance.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

kingraf wrote:There's nothing unfortunate about being out on umpire's call.

I agree.

Except in this case it looks like there may have been a hawker screw up...What was shown on screen had the projected path starting from behind where the ball struck him

alfie wrote:A brace of boundaries for Root and England are in the lead...

How often has a team taken a first innings lead after three hours of a Test Match ?

Almost every game.

Starc really bowling well here : nearly had Cook then .

Making England work with the bat. Rather more than they made them work with the ball...

But runs starting to flow for Root as he reaches twenty without having to run.

Gooseberry wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

kingraf wrote:There's nothing unfortunate about being out on umpire's call.

I agree.

Except in this case it looks like there may have been a hawker screw up...What was shown on screen had the projected path starting from behind where the ball struck him

Hmm all supposition. All that matters is the umpire thought it was out and to me in replays it looked like it was clipping. At the end of the day (given Bell's recent form Edgbaston-aside) I don't see it being all that pivotal.

Ball softer, Cook and Root getting settled, test over, series over.

Hmmm...could be a long drag in the field for Australia.

I thought Bell was out too CC: hit on the backfoot in front of leg, ball didn't have far to go, would have needed to be swinging very sharply indeed to miss leg completely.

Root's on-drive for four off Starc a few overs back a contender for shot of the series for me so far, just the perfect caress.

early days against a best ever 11 Duty. They're never beaten , they just give you a bit of a lead and then roar back. They can't lose really.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I thought Bell was out too CC: hit on the backfoot in front of leg, ball didn't have far to go, would have needed to be swinging very sharply indeed to miss leg completely.

Root's on-drive for four off Starc a few overs back a contender for shot of the series for me so far, just the perfect caress.

Yeah the lbw was fair enough ; though on another day he might well have been given not out ; one couldn't have complained about that either. It was one of those decisions that can go either way .

Agree about the Root on drive

A peach of a delivery that to remove Cook for 43. England 96 (or should that be 36) for 3.

Cant help but feel Australia gambled it all on winning the toss, and blowing England away. Marsh bowled well at Edgebaston, and they drop him for a batsman. Now they haven't blown England out in better batting conditions, Lyons having to bowl 2 hours into England's innings on day 1.

Cook gone. Australia still on life support but the games gone if England are batting at close.

Oops ....Cook lbw to another full ball from Starc : no doubts about that one.

Bit out of the blue as he'd been looking well settled ... Starc keeping Australia in the game.

good bowling from Starc, in the middle of an excellent spell here. Much needed for Aus, with Cook on his way after a good partnership with Root.

trebellbobaggins wrote:early days against a best ever 11 Duty.  They're never beaten , they just give you a bit of a lead and then roar back.  They can't lose really.

Ah I see!

Anyone think England will declare around the 300-350 mark?

Take pity on the Aussies (and the punters) and try and stretch the game into a 3rd day?


Okay...maybe not...

Cook gone now for 43 and England are effectively 36-3. My original prediction of around 250 is looking more realistic now. Starc doing a good job for the Aussies but it would need some really Aussie-style calamitous batting for England not to end up with a very healthy lead.

In all seriousness, eng are at risk of throwing away their advantage. If they don't even manage a 200 lead after that start then the Aussies will be fancying this knowing how fragile Eng are with the bat.

Got to get 300 first.

There could be a few scored this evening mind. 3 seamers have to bowl long spells

CaledonianCraig wrote:A peach of a delivery that to remove Cook for 43. England 96 (or should that be 36) for 3.

Well it was full and fast . But looking on replay it didn't actually do much. Cook just played round it.

He will be annoyed at getting out like that just before the interval. Think this actually rates as Australia's session....though they probably need one or two more session wins after this mornings effort....

Tea ? 99/3.

Aussies chipping away with wickets, but lets remember this is TB where the bowlers are always in the game. That's also good news for England as we do have another 10 wickets to take at some point!

trebellbobaggins wrote:In all seriousness, eng are at risk of throwing away their advantage.  If they don't even manage a 200 lead after that start then the Aussies will be fancying this knowing how fragile Eng are with the bat.

? It's already impossible to throw away the advantage.

VTR wrote:Aussies chipping away with wickets, but lets remember this is TB where the bowlers are always in the game. That's also good news for England as we do have another 10 wickets to take at some point!

What's a high enough lead to shake their confidence? 200+?

Not a bad session for Australia really, with Starc finally coming to the party for them with an excellent spell. Cook gone to the dangerous one which doesn't swing. Of course given how far behind Aus are "not bad" isn't really going to cut it exactly at this stage, but if they can limit England to a lead of 150 or fewer they'll at least have given themselves a chance.

Scottrf wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:In all seriousness, eng are at risk of throwing away their advantage.  If they don't even manage a 200 lead after that start then the Aussies will be fancying this knowing how fragile Eng are with the bat.

? It's already impossible to throw away the advantage.

That bowling them gave them the opportunity for a good lead. A small lead will be quickly overturned if Aussie find their form.

Scottrf wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:In all seriousness, eng are at risk of throwing away their advantage.  If they don't even manage a 200 lead after that start then the Aussies will be fancying this knowing how fragile Eng are with the bat.

? It's already impossible to throw away the advantage.

Don't worry - thats just Trebs throwing in an extra reverse-jinx to stop England losing any more wickets today.

Not so much confidence. They are batting like crap. In which case anything above a 200 chase is going to be a real problem for them.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

VTR wrote:Aussies chipping away with wickets, but lets remember this is TB where the bowlers are always in the game. That's also good news for England as we do have another 10 wickets to take at some point!

What's a high enough lead to shake their confidence?  200+?

Yep - if England get to 300 I will be very happy. I would take that now. I think we will get there, but it will be a rocky path and require some lower order runs!

trebellbobaggins wrote:

VTR wrote:Aussies chipping away with wickets, but lets remember this is TB where the bowlers are always in the game. That's also good news for England as we do have another 10 wickets to take at some point!

What's a high enough lead to shake their confidence?  200+?

150+ lead for England would be very, very handy.

300ish for 5 at stumps.

Probably have to pelt along at five an over.

Considering the way Australia have been batting , even a fairly modest lead might test their resolve.
But of course , what you don't want to do is allow them to recover confidence by way of a strong bowling performance. Their confidence must have been pretty well shot after this morning : but if they came back hard with the ball the belief might return.
Better keep your foot on their necks...

Duty281 wrote:300ish for 5 at stumps.

Probably have to pelt along at five an over.

Ha. That was KP_fan's call at the start of play...but he meant Australia

I would prefer about 220-4 at the close of play. No need to be over attacking and throw wickets away. Time is not an issue so we can really grind them into the ground.

exactly that Alfie, we've seen their mental strength so many times over the years. I think you have to kick them when they're down hard or they will bite your foot off.

LivinginItaly wrote:I would prefer about 220-4 at the close of play. No need to be over attacking and throw wickets  away. Time is not an issue so we can really grind them into the ground.

England don't seem to do "grinding" these days...

Think if they bat forty overs this evening they'll have a few more than 220. Agree there is no pressing need to hurry , though.

For now , the job is just see off the two Mitches after tea.

VTR wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:

VTR wrote:Aussies chipping away with wickets, but lets remember this is TB where the bowlers are always in the game. That's also good news for England as we do have another 10 wickets to take at some point!

What's a high enough lead to shake their confidence?  200+?

Yep - if England get to 300 I will be very happy. I would take that now. I think we will get there, but it will be a rocky path and require some lower order runs!

Just as well the England tail has wagged pretty well this series. I expect Moeen and Broad will need to stick around for a bit, to get us a 200+ lead.

LivinginItaly wrote:I would prefer about 220-4 at the close of play. No need to be over attacking and throw wickets  away. Time is not an issue so we can really grind them into the ground.

You can't have blitzkrieg cricket both ways England to be 300 all out playing mainly reverse sweeps, ramp shots and switch hits

59 ahead, nearly enough for an innings victory....

Joe Root 48 - he's nearly outbatted Australia!

long way to go duty.

The Mitchell brothers are still in town.

Given Trent bridge isn't the easiest place to bat, what would Aussie have set themselves as a target this morning? 350?

VTR wrote:

LivinginItaly wrote:I would prefer about 220-4 at the close of play. No need to be over attacking and throw wickets  away. Time is not an issue so we can really grind them into the ground.

You can't have blitzkrieg cricket both ways England to be 300 all out playing mainly reverse sweeps, ramp shots and switch hits

Guess you are right. With root and bairstow at the crease and strokes, buttler, ali and broad to come the scoring rate is going to be high.

trebellbobaggins wrote:Given Trent bridge isn't the easiest place to bat, what would Aussie have set themselves as a target this morning?  350?

I think if you are put in, anything above 250 feels like a bonus

That's a good point VTR. Not the same as choosing to bat on a flat one.

LivinginItaly wrote:

VTR wrote:

LivinginItaly wrote:I would prefer about 220-4 at the close of play. No need to be over attacking and throw wickets  away. Time is not an issue so we can really grind them into the ground.

You can't have blitzkrieg cricket both ways England to be 300 all out playing mainly reverse sweeps, ramp shots and switch hits  

Guess you are right. With root and bairstow at the crease and strokes, buttler, ali and broad to come the scoring rate is going to be high.

hope so. Need to assume aussie will get 400 in the second innings and thus get enough to ensure that wouldn't be too big a chase.