England vs Australia 4th Test, Trent Bridge

First topic message reminder :

As The Ashes thread has gone on a tangent arguing over who is SA's best fast bowler, let's get back on topic with a match thread.

Conditions for the 5 days look generally dry so there will be an almost certain result for either team. Also looking cloudy for large periods, so the loss of Anderson might be huge for England

England: Cook, Lyth, Bell, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Broad, Wood, Finn

Australia: Rogers, Warner, Smith, S Marsh, Clarke, Voges, Nevill, Johnson, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon

Lets be clear. If Australia win it would be easily. Without doubt the greatest victory in cricket history. Would throw Kolkata into a shade from which there is no escape.

I remember watching a program where a lady was in a coma and her family tell the doctor, "There are news cases of people waking up 20 years after a coma". To which the doctor replies, "there's a reason that makes the news".

aussie will be in when the sun comes out.. probably be eng chasing 150 some time tomorrow.

kingraf wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Must be curshing for Aus to know theres still 3 " all rounders" and Broad who can hold a bat still in. The front up batting may be a bit dodgy but Englands depth is ludicrous.
The otehr thing here is that Starc and Johson will have bwoled a decent chunk of overs this morning prior to the new ball, so maybe wont get maximum advantage form that if england avoid chucking wickets away.
They have to go for broke of course and cant afford to " see out " the overs till then. But this does make the decision to hold back Johnson yesterday even more questionable. They really had to go for the throat from the start of the innings not once the game was already gone.

To be honest, I think they were going for the kill. Starc had to open because he has more X-factor than a TV show where I still havent quite understood how different it is to Idols. Hazlewood, until this test, averaged 22, with a SR of 37 in this series. They were arguably the two likely to get a wicket.  

It was perhaps more Lyon coming ahead of him. Or maybe they had a specific theory about a specific batsman...but to me it smacked of more negativity beiung scared of Johnson chucking away cheap runs and letting England feel secure.
As it transpires Jonhsons in dog form anyway so maybe he had a point.

It remains a matter of when. Australia are going to have to bat the entirety of the next 2 days to set England a target.

Just noticed that England extras have outscored Autralias now as well.

This is where England's lack of 'grind' crops up. Sloppy batting...again!

you rather jinxed them duty.  I never thought they were really dominating here, aussie are too good.

Game blown wide open and the best team in the world back on top.

are you really down here at the beaches?

I must admit I avoid the during this six weeks, heaving with emmets.

Duty281 wrote:This is where England's lack of 'grind' crops up. Sloppy batting...again!

We've scored nearly 350 on a pitch that's doing a little and there's assistance in the air. Pretty decent effort

trebellbobaggins wrote:you rather jinxed them duty.  I never thought they were really dominating here, aussie are too good.

Game blown wide open and the best team in the world back on top.

are you really down here at the beaches?

I must admit I avoid the during this six weeks, heaving with emmets.

Well not on the Cornish beaches during this weather, that's for certain!

Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:This is where England's lack of 'grind' crops up. Sloppy batting...again!

We've scored nearly 350 on a pitch that's doing a little and there's assistance in the air. Pretty decent effort

Oh yes, but it's about 40-4 in the last forty minutes or so.

Have a little patience and application. Though Starc has been bowling well.

it's sunny here in Lanner today.  inland is always nicest.. and quiet.

you in the area then?

I agree totally.. application is the key here and they tend to falter on that in recent times.

btw.. I did my bit by cancelling sky last year. if I watch England do really badly so I gave up watching. Taking one for the team!

Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:This is where England's lack of 'grind' crops up. Sloppy batting...again!

We've scored nearly 350 on a pitch that's doing a little and there's assistance in the air. Pretty decent effort

While I agree with you, you do have to remember that when England batted yesterday the ball stopped swinging and the pitch appeared flat. It's only this morning that the Aussies have got the ball to move.

Hitting, stick with umpires call not out, silly rule.

Duty281 wrote:This is where England's lack of 'grind' crops up. Sloppy batting...again!

Cook and Root aside, I don't think there's anyone in the lineup who can actually graft it out. Seems to be the way the selectors want to go

trebellbobaggins wrote:it's sunny here in Lanner today.  inland is always nicest.. and quiet.

you in the area then?

I agree totally.. application is the key here and they tend to falter on that in recent times.

btw.. I did my bit by cancelling sky last year. if I watch England do really badly so I gave up watching.  Taking one for the team!

Penryn. Terribly quiet here as well - Falmouth is where the tourists reside.

And doing your bit probably merits a MBE.

Scottrf wrote:Hitting, stick with umpires call not out, silly rule.

Why's it silly?

after the good first innings I felt about 400 was needed to really feel they'd capitalised on the lead.

PaulHv2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Hitting, stick with umpires call not out, silly rule.

Why's it silly?

You're saying the umpire was wrong but you're sticking with his decision?

Duty281 wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:it's sunny here in Lanner today.  inland is always nicest.. and quiet.

you in the area then?

I agree totally.. application is the key here and they tend to falter on that in recent times.

btw.. I did my bit by cancelling sky last year. if I watch England do really badly so I gave up watching.  Taking one for the team!

Penryn. Terribly quiet here as well - Falmouth is where the tourists reside.

And doing your bit probably merits a MBE.

oh you aren't studying down here or something are you? moved here?  holiday here?  (Penryn is an unusual holiday choice after all).

Yeah true that, I used to live there when first married back in the mid 90's, it's quiet like it is over here (where I moved, a massive 8 miles away - though feels like 80 for the wife getting to work with the roads as they are now sometimes).  It's the seaside towns that go crazy.

So wheres all this sunny weather eh ? Dull , overcast , ball swinging round corners and England trying to imitate Australia with the bat...

Nice lead ; but I was hoping for a nice peaceful day watching Root make 200 and Stokes and Buttler entertain.( if my stream ever stops lagging !)

Maybe England are planning to get out this morning , skittle Aussie again and have the weekend off

But I do think that Buttler in particular missed out today : he has been short of runs and this was a real opportunity to do what he dies best - rattle on quick runs. Need to get set first though...
Stokes a bit careless too. Actually just as well Wood was in form !

Never mind : nigh on 300 ahead now and still plenty there for the bowlers by the look of it.

And still no KP_ f

I suppose we do need to remember we were wobbling a bit on 96-3, so 357-8 is great from there. Bairstow really rode his luck and its that partnership with Root which cemented the position

Scottrf wrote:

PaulHv2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Hitting, stick with umpires call not out, silly rule.

Why's it silly?

You're saying the umpire was wrong but you're sticking with his decision?

No they are saying the umpire might have been wrong, but that his decision was close enough to not be overuled by a different form of guess.

DRS is only an illustration of what may have happened. It is all based on stats, which will have a margin for error, hence you have umpires call

Gooseberry wrote:No they are saying the umpire might have been wrong, but that his decision was close enough to not be overuled by a different form of guess.

A more accurate form of guess, but OK. Perhaps not as silly as it mattering whether you play a shot in an LBW call I guess.

fair vtr and anything near 400 is good at Trent Bridge.

Scottrf wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:No they are saying the umpire might have been wrong, but that his decision was close enough to not be overuled by a different form of guess.

A more accurate form of guess, but OK. Perhaps not as silly as it mattering whether you play a shot in an LBW call I guess.

Don't think that's silly either personally. Used to pore the backside off me when batsmen would just kick the spinner away, even in league cricket they'd do it. With that law that's now not happening which is only a good thing.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:it's sunny here in Lanner today.  inland is always nicest.. and quiet.

you in the area then?

I agree totally.. application is the key here and they tend to falter on that in recent times.

btw.. I did my bit by cancelling sky last year. if I watch England do really badly so I gave up watching.  Taking one for the team!

Penryn. Terribly quiet here as well - Falmouth is where the tourists reside.

And doing your bit probably merits a MBE.

oh you aren't studying down here or something are you? moved here?  holiday here?  (Penryn is an unusual holiday choice after all).

Yeah true that, I used to live there when first married back in the mid 90's, it's quiet like it is over here (where I moved, a massive 8 miles away - though feels like 80 for the wife getting to work with the roads as they are now sometimes).  It's the seaside towns that go crazy.

Live here, usually, though study up in Yorkshire - where it's cold, grim and proper!

Yes, Newquay/Falmouth/Penzance are the proper tourist places. Dead for half the year, alive for the other half.

PaulHv2 wrote:Don't think that's silly either personally. Used to pore the backside off me when batsmen would just kick the spinner away, even in league cricket they'd do it. With that law that's now not happening which is only a good thing.

Whatever the reason, if your leg stops it hitting the wicket, it should be LBW.

PaulHv2 wrote:

Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:This is where England's lack of 'grind' crops up. Sloppy batting...again!

We've scored nearly 350 on a pitch that's doing a little and there's assistance in the air. Pretty decent effort

While I agree with you, you do have to remember that when England batted yesterday the ball stopped swinging and the pitch appeared flat. It's only this morning that the Aussies have got the ball to move.

So why play slap happy when the ball is swinging, why not graft it out now..tire Johnson and Starc, then play silly buggers later?

England have been batting VERY agressively and made it easy for Aus to take wickets. In the context of the game it doesnt matter but in terms of the team learning and individuals showing they can play in difficult conditions today has been wasted. We know these guys are good ODI batsmen, but Ali Buttler and Stokes (in particual since his bowling has been godawful) still have question marks over how good bats they are in real test situations.

Duty281 wrote:

Live here, usually, though study up in Yorkshire - where it's cold, grim and proper!

Yes, Newquay/Falmouth/Penzance are the proper tourist places. Dead for half the year, alive for the other half.

All these years and I had no idea you were a compatriot!

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Live here, usually, though study up in Yorkshire - where it's cold, grim and proper!

Yes, Newquay/Falmouth/Penzance are the proper tourist places. Dead for half the year, alive for the other half.

All these years and I had no idea you were a compatriot!

Haha, all my life.

Broad and Ali clobbering a few now.

Moeen Ali straight/cover drives >>>>>>>>>>>> everything cricket has ever produced

Scottrf wrote:

PaulHv2 wrote:Don't think that's silly either personally. Used to pore the backside off me when batsmen would just kick the spinner away, even in league cricket they'd do it. With that law that's now not happening which is only a good thing.

Whatever the reason, if your leg stops it hitting the wicket, it should be LBW.

In theory yes, the problem is without that exemption it becomes far too easy to bowl extremly negative orthodox slow bowling ( not even spin) and draw batsmen into only playing defensive shots. The law is as it is to encourage proper bowling and proper batting.

Going back to the hawkeye thing I think the real argument there was that in general it should be easier for a batsman to be given not out to a marginal decision than out, to mimic the traditional ( and non hawkeye game) "benefit of the doubt". To be honest Id rather see hawkeye just used for all lbws, but that would require the system being faster and more relaible than it is (surprised we havent heard more about the dodgy trace on the Bell one) .
I do agree that its a more reliable or perhaps more objective system than the umpires guess, but still I think we also agree that having at all is far better than the wild west days of dickie bird point blank refusing to beleive it was possible to be out lbw or "certain umpires" owning some very nice gold watches.

Well there you go.  You live and learn.  A fellow Cornishman.  We are the yin and yang of Cornish cricketing optimism.

aand there goes the fun partnership after the new ball.

still not quite at the 400 mark. take the 400 aussie will get now, add the first innings. tricky 70 chase in the final innings then.

Olly wrote:Moeen Ali straight/cover drives >>>>>>>>>>>> everything cricket has ever produced

And out.

Great.

Very good catch to get rid of Ali.

Would have thought we'd have declared by now. Lead is well over 300, so why not stick Aus back in?

Even if they made 500 (most improbable) that would still give Eng less than 200 to chase.

As it is Aus are unlikely to make over 300 so we probably won't even have to bat again.

Have we been asked to put on a batting exhibition just to entertain the punters?

New England don't do graft

That was another bright effort from Moeen - and he fell to a truly great catch.

Getting close to 400 .and not wasting any time.

Called "taking the draw out of the equation "

Not sure what the point of Finn and Broad leaving the ball is? Have a dart or declare

yeah going into the old blocking mode serves nothing at this stage. Maybe they were keen on the milestone score of 400.

I'd say Cook will be happy overall. If you choose to bowl and then end up with a 330+ lead after the first innings you'd take that.

England have declared with 331 runs ahead & 15 mins before lunch

Funky captaincy!!

Australia need 500+ to make a game of this.

I.e good luck

world class they are but looks unlikely. 400 all out setting eng one of those tricky small chases.

You rogue, Cook.

Will Australia survive till lunch?!

dyrewolfe wrote:Would have thought we'd have declared by now. Lead is well over 300, so why not stick Aus back in?

Even if they made 500 (most improbable) that would still give Eng less than 200 to chase.

As it is Aus are unlikely to make over 300 so we probably won't even have to bat again.

Have we been asked to put on a batting exhibition just to entertain the punters?

You writing Cook's script now , direwolfe ?

Fair idea : give them a tricky three overs before lunch.

Cheeky declaration...looks like he did that just to deny Starc a last wicket which Broad was doing his level best to give him.

As much as its fun to watch England slap up a quick 100 this morning Im a little underwhelmed. Meaningless given what they acheived yesterday and the absurd lead they carry over of course.
On the off chance they get a second innings Id love to see Lyth open with a stick of rhubarb.

Hope they cut to Shane Warnes face when the Ashes get presented after tea.

The aussie "fanatic" must be loving this, confident that their charges can never fail and are set to bring them ashes back home from here.

Not sure it was aggressive, the partnership was going nowhere, might as well have an over rather than poke around for a few runs we don't need.