England vs Australia 4th Test, Trent Bridge

First topic message reminder :

As The Ashes thread has gone on a tangent arguing over who is SA's best fast bowler, let's get back on topic with a match thread.

Conditions for the 5 days look generally dry so there will be an almost certain result for either team. Also looking cloudy for large periods, so the loss of Anderson might be huge for England

England: Cook, Lyth, Bell, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Broad, Wood, Finn

Australia: Rogers, Warner, Smith, S Marsh, Clarke, Voges, Nevill, Johnson, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon

trebellbobaggins wrote:Good work from Voges, he stays in the team then.

still think he might lead them to a small lead.  Chasing 2 after lunch.

Don't think England will mind Voges holding his place. Not quite in the Steve Waugh class at five or six

Credit for guts in battling out the fifty. But won't play many more Tests.

Reckon you can relax on the jinxing now , trebs.

They haven't lost them yet raf. A good stand here and it could be 2 all.

trebellbobaggins wrote:They needed Ashton Agar here!

Whatever happened to him? I seem to recall he was a pretty decent prospect...

dyrewolfe wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:They needed Ashton Agar here!

Whatever happened to him? He seem to recall he was a pretty decent prospect...

I read that he thinks he is close to a return to the set-up, been doing well.

trebellbobaggins wrote:They haven't lost them yet raf.    A good stand here and it could be 2 all.

and my work here is done.


Congrats England! First home innings win over Aussie since 85.

All done

ENGLAND HAVE WON THE ASHES!!!!

Lyon is bowled by Wood and Aus are 253 all out.

England win this match by an innings and 78 runs...quite amazing...

There it is. Well doen Cooky

Get in!

Glorious triumph. Cook sticks it to his critics.

Well done England.

Going to make the dead rubber at the Oval a cracker. Aussie have nothing to lose.

I am not a cricket expert but tell me what is the point now of the 5th test? Surely for Australian players it will be a total damp squid and I am sure if you were an Aussie fan you would want to be nowhere near the place.

trebellbobaggins wrote:Going to make the dead rubber at the Oval a cracker.  Aussie have nothing to lose.

Perhaps the test at the Oval will count double, just to keep the series alive.

Duty281 wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:Going to make the dead rubber at the Oval a cracker.  Aussie have nothing to lose.

Perhaps the test at the Oval will count double, just to keep the series alive.

haha. No thanks. The Ashes are here now cheers .

lorus59 wrote:I am not a cricket expert but tell me what is the point now of the 5th test? Surely for Australian players it will be a total damp squid and I am sure if you were an Aussie fan you would want to be nowhere near the place.

The fanatics will be there! they might as well, they've spent all the money to be up here and will hope for a win to boost morale.

Bug win for England. On to Dubai (ignoring the crowing ceremony that is the final test). Stokes with a big wicket haul, but I remain unconvinced about his credentials. Says a lot about how poor he's been this year that one performance essentially halves his average for the year. Still he showed he can reverse it, and nothing gets your Hero points up faster than reverse swing.

Lots of questions remain with the bat for England. I don't think they've batted particularly well, outside of the first innings of the series (and even then they were a good wicket keeper away from being 40/4). But the bowling has been nothing short of sensational. The next two tours will tell us if they've struck gold, or if they were facing the blind.

Sad end to Clarkes career but then he might get consolation at the Oval.

Raf.. the batting is very fragile and I don't think Bayliss will delude himself it is not and will look to make some changes.

Clarke will retire after the oval it been confirmed. I hope that wasnt pushed, he doesnt deserve that

lorus59 wrote:I am not a cricket expert but tell me what is the point now of the 5th test? Surely for Australian players it will be a total damp squid and I am sure if you were an Aussie fan you would want to be nowhere near the place.

Well, for starters Ashes series are played over 5 Tests, so the fixture has to be fulfilled regardless.

Secondly, as its a dead rubber, both sides can use it as a chance to look at new players. England may not, but I'd be surprised if the Aussies didn't decide to try a few fresh faces.

Also, since there is nothing riding on it, both sides can play with total freedom...treat it as an exhibition match almost...

Nonetheless big congratulations to the English contingent. Commiserations to Aussie fans. Didn't think England would win. And I thought that even if they did, it would be a scrapping sort of victory. They've simply blown Australia out of the park.

My only complaint would be that there hasn't been any good Test matches the whole series. The 2013 Ashes had a couple thrillers, even the immediate return had a few matches which looked poised on day three. Been a series of processesions.

kingraf wrote:Bug win for England. On to Dubai (ignoring the crowing ceremony that is the final test). Stokes with a big wicket haul, but I remain unconvinced about his credentials. Says a lot about how poor he's been this year that one performance essentially halves his average for the year. Still he showed he can reverse it, and nothing gets your Hero points up faster than reverse swing.

Lots of questions remain with the bat for England. I don't think they've batted particularly well, outside of the first innings of the series (and even then they were a good wicket keeper away from being 40/4). But the bowling has been nothing short of sensational. The next two tours will tell us if they've struck gold, or if they were facing the blind.

Fair point. England fans shouldn't get too carried away, as Australia have been uncharacteristically poor this series, apart from Lords where they showed they can bat on flat pitches that don't help the bowlers. England have been good...especially in the bowling department, but the acid test will be whether our players can adapt to different conditions overseas.

we've hammered them, and it feels great!

Its the win of patience and hard work. Its tile to celebrate..

Congrats English fans

so, a penny for the thoughts of kpfan?

Would have been 4-0 if KP played. Obviously.

Brilliant and stress free this morning!

Great series win overall, before the series I couldn't see how we would win three matches, but the bowlers and Joe Root have really stood up. Amazing that four different bowlers take 6 fors in consecutive innings

And re Voges, that 50 in a sinking ship reminds me of the kind of innings loads of England players used to play second innings after failing dismally in the first. Nice bit of fight, but delivered nothing when the pressure was on

I'm off out in the sun with a smile on my face. Cheers all.

You've earned it Trebs...after all that hard work with your reverse-jinxes (almost as good as Broad's 8-15)

Would it be beyond both teams to put on a just for fun T20 for the crowd who have paid 75 quid for 30 mins cricket?

VTR wrote:Would it be beyond both teams to put on a just for fun T20 for the crowd who have paid 75 quid for 30 mins cricket?

Might be a bit tricky after they've finished the champagne in the dressing room...

Wrapped up in style this morning. Wood finished it very nicely , good for him after a trying day yesterday.
Pity Broad didn't get to complete his ten , but I don't think he'll mind...
And Stokes showed what he can do with the ball. I know kingraf remains skeptical ; but I think he is the real deal. Will be interesting to see how he goes in SA - don't expect him to take a lot of wickets in UAE , though he might have some fun with the bat.

Really fine England performance. Well done all.

And trebs , for brilliant use of the jinx .

To be fair, he Averages 50 for the year. Pity its at the discipline where that's not a good stat. I've been wrong before, of course. I was once convinced Steven Smith was a dud. Looking at the Ashes, I might be right though.

I'll see him in SA, though. I have to, I have tickets to all days of the 2nd-4th Test. Really think England have a chance there. Would have fancied us to pick you off with Kallis and Co still around, but it's a new look team, and unlike England, our one year internationals don't have 15 Tests of trial and error a year to get good.

A drunken T20 sounds even better, with reverse batting orders and Cook opening the bowling!

Think your batting might be a bit more solid than Australia's , raf ; so I'm not getting carried away yet.
But I am looking forward to a good series. Hopefully good weather on the days you have tickets...

lorus59 wrote:I am not a cricket expert but tell me what is the point now of the 5th test? Surely for Australian players it will be a total damp squid and I am sure if you were an Aussie fan you would want to be nowhere near the place.

Biology: all squid are damp. They live in water. Did you by any chance mean 'damp squib'?

Cricket: the point of the Fifth Test is that the two sides play 5 matches. If/when the series is decided before the final game, it gives both sides a chance to try new players or get players out of form back in to form in a less pressured match. And there are serious bragging rights at stake. 3-2 with a good performance in the final should feel a lot less painful to the Aussies than 3-1 does now, or 3-1 or even 4-1 would after the Oval.

Australian (sporting) Glass Half Full: Wallabies 27, All Blacks 19. Very well done - Group A in the upcoming RWC looks more of a Group of Death than ever. At this rate, England and Wales might be playing a 'loser goes home before the knockout stages' crunch match.

Great performance by England. Really has been astonishing turn round from Lords. I saw the day's play where Aussies completed victory in that match - they were utterly dominant, relentless in pursuit of victory. Would not have believed that England would win next two matches with plenty to spare. That's the beauty of cricket!

SimonofSurrey wrote:
Biology: all squid are damp. They live in water. Did you by any chance mean 'damp squib'?

 Quite right too. #standards

Regarding a T20 beer match, one wit suggested just before lunch on day 1 that Austraila's approach to Test cricket - ie their inability to last 20 overs - was killing the shorter form of the game. I couldn't possibly condone such typically arrogant Pom gloating, but...

...he does have a point

Oh dear...

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/606146754963062784

Don't know about beyond, but they shouldn't. Its the nature of sport. Imagine asking a tennis player the same thing after they got thrashed. "Hey Roger, I know you just got bagelled by Nadal in the final set, but would terribly you mind playing an exhibition set against him because people paid to watch you do something?"

dyrewolfe wrote:

Secondly, as its a dead rubber, both sides can use it as a chance to look at new players. England may not, but I'd be surprised if the Aussies didn't decide to try a few fresh faces.

Also, since there is nothing riding on it, both sides can play with total freedom...treat it as an exhibition match almost...

Like who? Theres not a whole lot left in the squad who hasnt already been discarded. They wont learn anything about the second spinner or siddle from the game, and thats not where their problem is anyway.

For Aus experienced players will be playing for their careers, not for freedom.

dyrewolfe wrote:You've earned it Trebs...after all that hard work with your reverse-jinxes (almost as good as Broad's 8-15)

haha cheers. not quite. Been fun though.

SimonofSurrey wrote:

lorus59 wrote:I am not a cricket expert but tell me what is the point now of the 5th test? Surely for Australian players it will be a total damp squid and I am sure if you were an Aussie fan you would want to be nowhere near the place.

Biology: all squid are damp. They live in water. Did you by any chance mean 'damp squib'?

Cricket: the point of the Fifth Test is that the two sides play 5 matches. If/when the series is decided before the final game, it gives both sides a chance to try new players or get players out of form back in to form in a less pressured match. And there are serious bragging rights at stake. 3-2 with a good performance in the final should feel a lot less painful to the Aussies than 3-1 does now, or 3-1 or even 4-1 would after the Oval.

Australian (sporting) Glass Half Full: Wallabies 27, All Blacks 19. Very well done - Group A in the upcoming RWC looks more of a Group of Death than ever. At this rate, England and Wales might be playing a 'loser goes home before the knockout stages' crunch match.

I think Eng might be hoping for some damp weather to give the scrum a good pop that day.

‎--Well done Eng....they won the series hands down at the back of a handsome bowling attack....every one of the bowler used .....delivered at some point in the series.... including Ali.
That Ali and Stokes got more than useful and Broad useful runs with the bat, was the biggest  differentiator.

Actually numbers 5 thru 9 scored far more runs and more consistently ‎for Eng is how they outscored Aus......and won.....otherwise the top 4 were equally bad for both sides in aggregate.

--I have enjoyed the positive, fearless brand of cricket Eng has played since the NZ series s and I hope they learnt the lesson, seaming pitches are good for them against any / every side in the world. New coach must take a lot of credit.

--Aus...they were overconfident, took Eng for granted.
And one series too far for Clarke, he was struggling to play test cricket, Smith did a good job as a captain in tests.....they brought Clarke back for world cup, he won it and that should have been the end and farewell.

--Clarke had demonstrated neither form ‎nor fitness for 5 day game and a captain who is counting tests towards retirement is never the one in right frame of mind to be ruthless leader in a prestige series.

Eng would do well to be ahead of the curve and make Root the captain in very near future, and make a proactive push for continued positive cricket.
Retain cook as a batsman cum mentor. ...as long as he can deliver as an opener.

--‎Aus needs to move on from Watson, Mitch and Shaun Marsh......and with Rogers and Clarke retiring...they need to bring proper batsmen not bits and pieces all rounders.
The Aus-A series in India threw up a few his names. Plus I would like to see Maxwell in middle order and Faulkner as a 5 th bowler.

-- the last test is vital...it's easy to call it a dead game...but more than the ICC ranking point at stakes....the verdict of 4-1 would be a psychological mauling vs . 3-2 a respectable defeat.
It would be Eng's game to lose....for Clarke has neither form nor intensity......and Watson, Marshes, Rogers all knowing they may not be in scheme of things.....they are a disjointed / aimless group for now

Interesting points KP, cheers.

The Oval is going to be interesting. All pressure will be off Aussie with nothing to lose, making them dangerous and probably favourites. Even big Mitch might turn up again without the expectation on him.

Hoping to see Rashid given a go at the oval.

Think he needs to be given a game before the UAE where he will need to play

Definitely.

[quote="kingraf"]Don't know about beyond, but they shouldn't. Its the nature of sport. Imagine asking a tennis player the same thing after they got thrashed. "Hey Roger, I know you just got bagelled by Nadal in the final set, but would terribly you mind playing an exhibition set against him because people paid to watch you do something?"

C'mon kingraf, that's not a fair analogy and you know it.
Men's tennis => first to three sets, each set has to have a winner, ie frequently three set finish
Test cricket => outcome over 5 match series, including drawn (= unfinished) games, ie series result very often not decided till the last game of the series

KP_fan wrote:
--‎Aus needs to move on from Watson, Mitch and Shaun Marsh......and with Rogers and Clarke retiring...they need to bring proper batsmen not bits and pieces all rounders.
The Aus-A series in India threw up a few his names. Plus I would like to see Maxwell in middle order and Faulkner as a 5 th bowler.

Congratulations on suggesting they need to stop picking its ad pieces players and then saying they should pick two