Welsh World Cup Squad part 2

First topic message reminder :

Anyone else think Ll Williams and Anscombe did well when they came on? Would definitely take them over Phillips and Hook at the moment.

Mikey

I think I would like to see a few more front line players in the line up than you have suggested.

Francis has to play, maybe Jenkins and Owens might add experience? I would really like to see Charteris and AWJ together.

Possibly experiment with the back row a bit?

Love to see Davies and priestland at halfback with maybe Rhys Webb and Anscombe on the bench.

Centre has few options, Scott and Tyler could get a second run?

Back three of north, walker and Amos, with Cuthbert on the bench.

Jenkins, Owens, Francis
AWJ Charteris
Warburton Faletau Tips

Davies Priestland
Scott Tyler
Walker Amos North

James, Dacey, Jarvis
Ball, King
Webb Anscombe Cuthbert

maestegmafia wrote:Mikey

I think I would like to see a few more front line players in the line up than you have suggested.

Francis has to play, maybe Jenkins and Owens might add experience? I would really like to see Charteris and AWJ together.

Possibly experiment with the back row a bit?

Love to see Davies and priestland at halfback with maybe Rhys Webb and Anscombe on the bench.

Centre has few options, Scott and Tyler could get a second run?

Back three of north, walker and Amos, with Cuthbert on the bench.

Jenkins, Owens, Francis
AWJ Charteris
Warburton Faletau Tips

Davies Priestland
Scott Tyler
Walker Amos North

James, Dacey, Jarvis
Ball, King
Webb Anscombe Cuthbert

What are you reading then? I've been suggesting we start our best available team in the remaining warm-ups. Probably 4-5 changes for Uruguay. The team you've picked here is almost identical to the one I had in mind - but it would include Doc, Biggar, etc.

Sorry Mikey mate

It was our mate Gwlad's team that I meant to reply to...

mikey_dragon wrote:Glwad there's been several posts on here where I've repeated myself. I suggest you read them if you want to know (if you didn't already) why I disagree.

Repetitious for sure. But putting 'no just no' with no explanation is idiotic.

Heres an interesting article, it looks as though I was not the only person who thought that nerves got the better of Hallam Amos during the game:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/seven-left-field-wales-picks-9924359

See I knew I was not going mad.

Can you copy and paste the relevant content? I don't want to click on Walesonline if I can help it.

Here you go:-

Started at full-back against Ireland and was a bit like a rabbit in the headlights early on.

But the wannabe doctor came through a stern examination and got better as the minutes ticked by, being busy and looking for action.

The youngster is a lovely footballer with a feel for the game, instinctively knowing what to do and invariably taking the right option, whether it’s to run, time his pass to perfection or put in an accurate grubber-kick or chip.

Amos has played most of his rugby on the left-wing for the Dragons, is a natural left-footer and carries the ball in his left arm so ticks all those boxes.

With doubts hanging over Cuthbert, I would hold George North, who is as comfortable on the right-wing as he is on the left, back until the Italy job following his well-documented battle to overcome concussion.

For Luckless and Lord that piece was written by the Bowel, not worth the paper it was written on, same as the number of Englishmen who would get in the the Welsh team at the moment.

Gwlad wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Glwad there's been several posts on here where I've repeated myself. I suggest you read them if you want to know (if you didn't already) why I disagree.

Repetitious for sure. But putting 'no just no' with no explanation is idiotic.

It saved further repetition. To some your selection was idiotic but I guess that's none of my business... I'm just glad you, along with your coaching staff maestegmafia and Fanster aren't selecting the team .

After the match today I won't be surprised if Cuthbert doesn't make the squad.

maestegmafia wrote:After the match today I won't be surprised if Cuthbert doesn't make the squad.

There was one incident in the first half where where an irish defender caught the ball and Cuthbert could have easily pounced on him, but instead he watched then took a few steps back and did nothing. Still a risk defensively.

If Williams is fit then we know the back 3 and then it's a race between Amos, Cuthbert, Walker and Matthew Morgan for spot 23.

Aye

And I think Amos is the man for the job. He is fast, looks sharp, good defence and can cover full back if we need

Yep I would not complain with Amos being in the 23. Had a brilliant season and a real talent.

It is only really injury that may change Gatlands hand at the moment.

Lee, Williams and Anscombe have all done enough to go but are they fit enough. I imagine that none of those three will play before the Uruguay match

Matthew Morgan has to be in the 23. You need at least 1 player with a special god given talent that can make a difference.

I mean 31.

I'm not convinced that we need Morgan. But I am a huge fan of his.

True. Gatland has his system.

I was very impressed with our go forward today. Almost every player made some yards when going into contact. Glad to see Ken have a run and good to see whe have 2 class hookers.

Not surprised about Hibbard. He can't throw and he made no yards in contact 3 weeks ago. Kept falling to ground and offered nothing.

Biggest conundrum for Gatland will be finding a way to start Tipuric.

ceilliau_chwyslyd wrote:

Biggest conundrum for Gatland will be finding a way to start Tipuric.

I don't think he needs to start him, he is a great addition to the back row as a stater or from the bench. I think his inclusion plays a great roll in changing our dynamics.

Cuthbert is a race horse when what i want is a leopard.

He is gone, has no aggression or killer instinct in defense which any good winger knows is at least half of his game.

Bi question is Francis, is he up to the job?

Francis...!

Hmmmm

He did ok. Didn't set the world alight but it is a big step up playing against Ireland in Dublin on your first cap.

He looked more solid in the scrum than Jarvis did two weeks ago

ceilliau_chwyslyd wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:After the match today I won't be surprised if Cuthbert doesn't make the squad.

There was one incident in the first half where where an irish defender caught the ball and Cuthbert could have easily pounced on him, but instead he watched then took a few steps back and did nothing. Still a risk defensively.

If Williams is fit then we know the back 3 and then it's a race between Amos, Cuthbert, Walker and Matthew Morgan for spot 23.

I would take Amos over those listed but with Anscombe getting injured then Morgan might get the nod, though I think if he was in contention then he would have been involved today.

i think Anscombe will be fine but do we have an update.

Was getting assessed this weekend Gwlad.

maestegmafia wrote:Francis...!

Hmmmm

He did ok. Didn't set the world alight but it is a big step up playing against Ireland in Dublin on your first cap.

He looked more solid in the scrum than Jarvis did two weeks ago

Francis actually looked pretty good in the loose too, clearing out and defending the ruck.

Seemed to fade after first 30-35 mins hope that's not a sign of things to come. That said still better then Jarvis or Andrews

he will start against italy and urugay IMO which will bring him into the full half/50 minute range i think….and James slots in for the 2nd half. Works for me if necessary but of cours ei just want Lee back!

More worried about back 3

Certs are Half and North and IMO Amos

Wants are L Williams and Anscombe…if more than one is still crocked next weekend then i expect Morgan to get the nod but it could be Walker.

IMO Cuthbert is gone after this last game

If Anscombe is crocked then I think Morgan will get nod as more versatile than Walker. Agree on Cuthbert but have a sneaky feeling he will go.

With Liam Williams not going to be fit for Uruguay I am worried Gatland won't risk taking Anscombe as well, which means we will be in trouble if Biggar/Preistland go down.

Not fit? I thought he was on schedule for that game. If true then Gatland will definitely be taking Amos and Anscombe.

Amos looks like the type of bright young player that if given an opportunity he will take it and run with it...

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Francis...!

Hmmmm

He did ok. Didn't set the world alight but it is a big step up playing against Ireland in Dublin on your first cap.

He looked more solid in the scrum than Jarvis did two weeks ago

Francis actually looked pretty good in the loose too, clearing out and defending the ruck.

Yes I agree, he did well in the loose.

More to come as he settles in I think.

He made some good decisions in the loose too, which is something we lack in lee, who doesn't appear to be the brightest candle down the pit.

mikey_dragon wrote:Not fit? I thought he was on schedule for that game. If true then Gatland will definitely be taking Amos and Anscombe.

Apparently not - http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-rugby-team-injury-update-9954708

Will he risk taking Anscombe if he might not be fit for that game either?

Oh I thought Anscombe would be okay (as will AWJ and Roberts). I guess Morgan (Matthew) might also be in then.

mikey_dragon wrote:Oh I thought Anscombe would be okay (as will AWJ and Roberts). I guess Morgan (Matthew) might also be in then.

All should be fit eventually, but all appear to be touch and go for the first game or two.

Gatland wrote:The medical team are seeing where Gareth Anscombe is at and that’s a two or three week injury as well. We are going to have to make a couple of tough calls on players. You might be able to carry one or two, but you’ve got to be careful how many injured players you go into the World Cup with. The last World Cup we had a couple and we may end up being the same this time. We will sit down and talk and finalise things tomorrow (Sunday) afternoon."

So I guess the squad will be announced on Monday?

wales606 wrote:With Liam Williams not going to be fit for Uruguay I am worried Gatland won't risk taking Anscombe as well, which means we will be in trouble if Biggar/Preistland go down.

agreed but Morgan is no stand in at 10….what do we do…bring hook back?!

Gwlad wrote:

wales606 wrote:With Liam Williams not going to be fit for Uruguay I am worried Gatland won't risk taking Anscombe as well, which means we will be in trouble if Biggar/Preistland go down.

agreed but Morgan is no stand in at 10….what do we do…bring hook back?!

I hope Gatland risks Anscombe because I would not be happy with Morgan playing anywhere other than 15 and wouldn't be happy with Hook on the pitch.

Fingers crossed Biggar and Preistland stay fit and can interchange during the pool stages

wales606 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

wales606 wrote:With Liam Williams not going to be fit for Uruguay I am worried Gatland won't risk taking Anscombe as well, which means we will be in trouble if Biggar/Preistland go down.

agreed but Morgan is no stand in at 10….what do we do…bring hook back?!

I hope Gatland risks Anscombe because I would not be happy with Morgan playing anywhere other than 15 and wouldn't be happy with Hook on the pitch.

Fingers crossed Biggar and Preistland stay fit and can interchange during the pool stages

I think then that this is obvious: Morgan has to stay if Anscombe is a question mark, additionally so as Sanjay is crook

If Anscombe fit then Morgan goes if not...

QED Morgan stays, Cuthbert or Walker goes.

For me Cuthbert goes.

Now all depends on who is fit and when.

I think Sanjay is definitely out v Uruguay and have no expectation of him being match fit for England, perhaps as a bench option he'd make good impact.

Therefore my back 3 v England is Half, North and Amos! And i can't say i feel too good about it either.

Enjoyed the game today but Wales seem to lack a cutting edge of the England backs which is a bit of a worry. It will be interesting to see how Ireland get on with the England forwards in the set plays.

I have not been a great fan of Lydiate but he had a decent game today, in fact the back row were very good as was the whole pack in the first half.

I don't think Amos is ready for this RWC so Cuthbert's position is probably safe despite his shocking defence. I hope Morgan is picked I rather ditch Preistland (not likely to happen) he is always likely to screw up in the last minute of the game as against Australia many times and nearly did it again today.

Interesting Monday coming up.

Still not sure we will see a full strength side play Uruguay, i strongly suspect not

Personally i would not start these players v Uruguay;

Gethin
Lee
AWJ
Warbs
Webb
Biggar
Doc
North
Half

We can risk more of them v Fiji if fit and we should, as we have a decent rest after that game before Aus. There is a counter argument about consistency and putting out best side etc but we are lucky in that our core 1st XV is extremely consistent.

Intriguing to see what the final calls will be and as stated above, injury is very much a big part of the decision making.

Cuthbert was the only player that I thought did himself no favours today.

The cutting edge we want to see was there in spits and spats, but we were playing a very good defencive side, that this wasn't the full strength Irish team says more about the Irish strength than anything else. But I think we did well.

Martyn Williams left Jake Ball out of his squad and went for Davies and King. Big call, but makes sense. It'd be harsh on Ball though.

mikey_dragon wrote:Martyn Williams left Jake Ball out of his squad and went for Davies and King. Big call, but makes sense. It'd be harsh on Ball though.

Comparing the two, I thought Davies looked the better player at the moment. I know ball played in a far weaker side, but even in the six nations Ball looked a long way behind AWJ and Charteris in ability.

Ball is a solid player. Today Davies really committed himself, best game he has had for Wales in years.

We must take King but either way i think i have decided on my squad

My 31

Gethin, Evans, James, Owens, Dacey, Baldwin, Jarvis, Francis, Lee
AWJ, Ball or Davies, Charters, King
Faletau, Sam, Tips, Lydiate
Webb, Davies, Lloyd
Biggar, Preistland, Anscombe
Williams, Doc, Morgan
North, Sanjay, Half, Amos, Walker

i think you are about right.

Ball and Davies in the forwards Mathew Morgan, Amos and Eli Walker are the dilemmas that I would be considering.

Do we need King? Should we take an extra back or lock...?

From this mornings Telegraph

What did England learn about Wales following their win over Ireland

By Tom Cary
10:30PM BST 29 Aug 2015

Wales' set piece looked solid and four other things we learned from their 16-10 win in Dublin

Wales’ set piece looked solid

In stark contrast to England in Paris last weekend, Wales’ coaching staff would have been pleased with their set piece in Dublin. Tomas Francis made a solid start to international rugby at tighthead, with Wales winning an early penalty as Craig Joubert pinged the Irish scrum for wheeling. By all accounts Samson Lee will be fit enough to make the final 31 but Exeter prop Francis looked well capable of making the step up. Warren Gatland’s men won another penalty later in the first half as a result of pressure applied at the scrum. Wales’ line-out looked to be in good working order, too, stealing a couple of Ireland’s throw-ins and generally securing their own ball.

Gatland has options in back row

In the absence of Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric was everywhere in the first half (including at the bottom of a driving maul for Wales’ try). It’s tricky to know the make-up of Wales’ best back row but Gatland has options. Against an Ireland side looking unusually lethargic at home, Wales continued to dominate at the breakdown.


England cannot afford to concede penalties anywhere in own half

As if it needed repeating, Leigh Halfpenny is surgical with his boot. He slotted a penalty from way out on the right touchline to get Wales going in the first half. And another, this time from a central position, to send Wales clear in the second. He was also safe under the high ball – Jonny Sexton sent up a few steeplers – and in defence. Halfpenny not quite at Lions 2013 levels but a strength for Wales.


Kicking to corners brought Ireland some joy

Struggling to get his backs going, with Robbie Henshaw and Luke Fitzgerald barely involved in the game, Sexton increasingly looked to chip over the top or to the corner. This brought some joy with Alex Cuthbert nearly caught out a couple of time as Sexton looked to play in Keith Earls. But Wales’ defence was solid.

Wales did not offer a huge amount in attack

If there was one area that will not have had England quaking in their boots, it was that Wales did not look all that penetrating with the ball in hand. One rampaging run aside, Jamie Roberts was largely kept under wraps. Liam Williams was missed. Wales’ try came from successive driving mauls.

maestegmafia wrote:i think you are about right.

Ball and Davies in the forwards Mathew Morgan, Amos and Eli Walker are the dilemmas that I would be considering.

Do we need King? Should we take an extra back or lock...?

If they go for 5 props (2 loose 3 tight) then they can take 4 locks. King brings a line out presence that Ball and Bradley do not, but I would be worried playing a flanker in the second row against one of the top teams. Moriarty may get in on his ability to play 6 and 8. Despite his illusive running, I would not have Morgan anywhere near the squad, defence too weak for 15 and can't control a game at 10.

If they go for 5 props I think it will be 3 loose and 2 tight.