France v England, 22nd August

First topic message reminder :

 
FRANCE v ENGLAND
22 August 2015
KO: 20:00 BST (21:00 Local)
Stade de France, Paris

Sky Sports

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: John Lacey (Ireland) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

100 Played 100
38 Won 55
7 Drawn 7
55 Lost 38
1,244 Points 1,572

B. Recent Form

15 August 2015
Twickenham, London
19-14 to England

21 March 2015
Twickenham, London
55 – 35 to England

1 February 2014
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
26 – 24 to France

23 February 2013
Twickenham, London
23 – 13 to England

11 March 2012
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
22 – 24 to England


C. Teams

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 37 caps)
14. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 8 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 11 caps)
12. Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints, 12 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 14 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 11 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 47 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 31 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 50 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 22 caps)
5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 38 caps)
6. James Haskell (Wasps, 59 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 37 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 13 caps)

Replacements

16. Jamie George (Saracens, uncapped)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens,21 caps)
18. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 42 caps)
19. Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
20. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 51 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 51 caps)
22. Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks, 13 caps)
23. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 21 caps)

FRANCE


Spedding; Huget, Bastareaud, Fofana, Nakaitaci; Michalak, Tillous-Borde; Arous, Guirado, Slimani, Pape, Maestri, Chouly, Le Roux, Picamoles.

Replacements: Kayser, Debaty, Atonio, Flanquart, Nyanga, Kockott, Tales, Fickou.

Frankly, I thought Burgess' physicality put the Poopie up them.

Get him in at 6...perfect.

Lets see if Haskell can put the poopie up them with his physicality this weekend....

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Frankly, I thought Burgess' physicality put the Poopie up them.

Get him in at 6...perfect.

Lets see if Haskell can put the poopie up them with his physicality this weekend....

You're preaching to the choir re Burgess at 6. That said, if Burgess does convert to 6 post world-cup, where does that leave Itoje? Converting to lock? Then what about Lawes and Launchbury? And if you have Burgess at 6 and Vunipola/ Morgan at 8, can you have Robshaw at 7, or do you need more of a fetcher? And do you need to bring Tuilagi in at 12 to give more physicality?

Burgess put in a massive shift. Could easily have been man of the match. He is nailed on to make the squad. A back line of Ford, Burgess, Joseph, Watson, May and Brown is a back line filled with players with the X factor. They would scare any other team including NZ.

englandglory4ever wrote:Burgess put in a massive shift. Could easily have been man of the match. He is nailed on to make the squad. A back line of Ford, Burgess, Joseph, Watson, May and Brown is a back line filled with players with the X factor. They would scare any other team including NZ.

Well, I am tired of Burgess discussions already, but I will agree that there is potentially real exciting talent with Ford, Joseph, Watson, and Brown.  That leaves May.  I think he has shown he has the Rugby brain of an insect.  Kind of like those water bugs which skitter across the surface of a lake real fast but not really knowing where it is going.

I'm tired too. Tired of jealous people who won't accept that slammin Sam is a brilliant rugby talent and can play equally well on the flank or in the centre. His performance last week was world class.

doctor_grey wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Burgess put in a massive shift. Could easily have been man of the match. He is nailed on to make the squad. A back line of Ford, Burgess, Joseph, Watson, May and Brown is a back line filled with players with the X factor. They would scare any other team including NZ.

Well, I am tired of Burgess discussions already, but I will agree that there is potentially real exciting talent with Ford, Joseph, Watson, and Brown.  That leaves May.  I think he has shown he has the Rugby brain of an insect.  Kind of like those water bugs which skitter across the surface of a lake real fast but not really knowing where it is going.

Eh?! He scored a try, he saved a try only he could have saved, and he scared the jeebus out of the oppo all evening. For which he was universally rated.Some insect.

As for Sam - he'll make a top class 6. I predict he will not be considered an England centre again post RWC.

[quote="Barney McGrew did it"]

doctor_grey wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Burgess put in a massive shift. Could easily have been man of the match. He is nailed on to make the squad. A back line of Ford, Burgess, Joseph, Watson, May and Brown is a back line filled with players with the X factor. They would scare any other team including NZ.

Well, I am tired of Burgess discussions already, but I will agree that there is potentially real exciting talent with Ford, Joseph, Watson, and Brown.  That leaves May.  I think he has shown he has the Rugby brain of an insect.  Kind of like those water bugs which skitter across the surface of a lake real fast but not really knowing where it is going.

Eh?! He scored a try, he saved a try only he could have saved, and he scared the jeebus out of the oppo all evening. For which he was universally rated.Some insect.

As for Sam - he'll make a top class 6. I predict he will not be considered an England centre again post RWC.[/quote

I'll have to go watch the game now but wasn't May down for an assist on Watson's 2nd try too?

Yep, made the run across from left to right and put in the final pass to Watson

Im just hoping we see another great show from May and Nowell to produce his form from the 6N, would be a nice selection problem.

englandglory4ever wrote:I'm tired too. Tired of jealous people who won't accept that slammin Sam is a brilliant rugby talent and can play equally well on the flank or in the centre. His performance last week was world class.

?
Beyond delusional

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Frankly, I thought Burgess' physicality put the Poopie up them.

Get him in at 6...perfect.

Lets see if Haskell can put the poopie up them with his physicality this weekend....

You're preaching to the choir re Burgess at 6. That said, if Burgess does convert to 6 post world-cup, where does that leave Itoje? Converting to lock? Then what about Lawes and Launchbury? And if you have Burgess at 6 and Vunipola/ Morgan at 8, can you have Robshaw at 7, or do you need more of a fetcher? And do you need to bring Tuilagi in at 12 to give more physicality?

Well that's what Lancaster is getting paid for.
He has to pick what is the best combinations and balanced pack.
Ill add in maybe Haskell finds consistency and is player of the WC....that would add another dilemma.

where does that leave Itoje?

I predict he will be a lock anyway.

Then what about Lawes and Launchbury?

No player should be safe...if they perform they're in...if they don't they're not. It will make them all raise their game and find consistency

And if you have Burgess at 6 and Vunipola/ Morgan at 8, can you have Robshaw at 7

Maybe Robshaw will be sacked and Clifford / Kvesic will come in. Maybe Burgess will be a demon fetcher in his own right.
Maybe they will select Beaumont and change the dimension totally from 8, and a lineout option...leaving a battering ram at 6.

And do you need to bring Tuilagi in at 12 to give more physicality

With Sam HIll, Stephenson coming through we will have physicality at 12. Maybe Burgess WILL be a 12...and theres even more physicality.
Alternatively Slade will stay at 12 who is a strong tackler.

Do we overdo the need for "physicality" in the backs when you have skilled players like Slade / Joseph etc who are defensively sound....

offload wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:I'm tired too. Tired of jealous people who won't accept that slammin Sam is a brilliant rugby talent and can play equally well on the flank or in the centre. His performance last week was world class.

?  
Beyond delusional

World class, really!

Don't believe all the hype, he did well against France but so did Slade and deserves a mention too. Sam is a very gifted guy but for me it is a risk to pick him at centre when he clearly isn't one ahead of others for the RWC, 6 Nations is more realistic timescale when he has another half a season of Union under his belt.

Other news, Croft is fit and training with England.

***Breaking NEWS***

Croft is injured again!

TightHEAD wrote:***Breaking NEWS***

Croft is injured again!

Not that I'd be surprised, but where did you hear that?

Its only a matter of time.

TightHEAD wrote:Its only a matter of time.

Hilarious.

Well thank you....

But seriously if ever a player needed to retire due to injury then Mr Croft has to be at the top of the list. Is he still going to be a Tigers player next year as I thought there was rumors they have run out of patience with him.

GeordieFalcon wrote:With Sam HIll, Stephenson coming through we will have physicality at 12. Maybe Burgess WILL be a 12...and theres even more physicality.
Alternatively Slade will stay at 12 who is a strong tackler.

Don't forget Max Clark in the Bath Academy (I know I'm biased), he was excellent in the U20s - physical, quick, and good distributor too...
But he is only 19, and probably needs a couple of years.

Im forgetting Devoto aswell mate.

I think we need to realise Physicality is a lot...but is it everything?

Someone like Slade is not a monster I accept, but he's not soft and is a strong defender. But he offers so much offensively.

We shouldnt be blinded solely by power (which I accept I am in certain positions  )

GeordieFalcon wrote:Im forgetting Devoto aswell mate.

I think we need to realise Physicality is a lot...but is it everything?

Someone like Slade is not a monster I accept, but he's not soft and is a strong defender. But he offers so much offensively.

We shouldnt be blinded solely by power (which I accept I am in certain positions  )

Not every player makes it though. It's about picking and nurturing the best.

Remember when Burns and Clegg were meant to be the next big things at 10 for England?

Burns might still make it but Clegg's chances have surely gone?

Plenty of prospects but identifying the most promising is key.

With plenty of players on international duty - opportunities will open up.

Devoto in particular will have his opportunity to move out of the shadow out of his fellow Bath backs.

Slade to me looks like a blend of Ford and Farrell - physically in the same league as Farrell, but a lot closer to Ford in the creativity stakes. Possibly with better handling than either of them.

I'd be very happy to see him at 12, and it sounds like most other people would as well. But there are violent objections to the idea of Farrell at 12 (who played most of his age grade rugby there, cos Ford was at 10). I can't square that.

Anyway, looking forward England have lots of potential options at 12 and 13. We don't seem to have a crash ball 12 (Burgess and maybe Burrell aside), but at the same time I think we underestimate the physicality of some of these kids - they are mostly pretty wiry-looking, but from what I have seen they hit hard as well.

Incidentally - one thing I hadn't thought of. Quins have picked up EQP South African Tim Swiel on a permanent basis (he was over as injury cover at 10 last season) but have asked him to understudy Brown at 15. He's creative, very quick and doesn't shirk a tackle, not a reliable enough kicker to be an international 10 - but those are attributes that suit Lancaster's preferred style of fullback. Very early days, but one to watch.

Personally I feel that the back line works better if the 12 is capable of at least keeping the defenders interested. Farrell does occasionally make nice little runs but he isn't exactly a threat, although he has lots of other skills that help at 12.

Thats interesting on Tim Swiel Poorfour. I am surprised that Quins have taken that route though as we are still lacking in the 10 cover spot.
Nick Evans and Ben Botica (also EQP) I think.
In 15 we have Brown and the injury prone Chisholm - but I thought that with Visser/Yarde being 1st picks that we might be asking Charlie Walker to fill that utility back role!

Sorry - I digress from this post!
England are well stocked for a number of years with plenty of young 10s that are starting to come through -
Billy Burns still looks like a good prospect.
But Farrell and Ford arent exactly old.

whocares wrote:Breaking news : France might have 2 wingers on the pitch this time!

considering there is still a few players to test prior the announcement on the 23rd I would expect a team like that :

Ben Arous - Guirado/Kayzer - Slimani
Flanquart - Papé
Nyanga - Picamoles - Le Roux
tillous bordes - Michalak
Nakaitaci- Fofana - Fickou - Huget
Dulin

dusautoir is out and no need to test Bastareaud, we all know what he does anyway. and picamoles has to play all games (even the irrelevant ones) such is the gap between him and then next best 8.

french team more or less as predicted :

Ben Arous - Guirado- Slimani
Maestri - Papé
Le roux - Picamoles - Chouly
tillous bordes - Michalak
Nakaitaci- Fofana - Bastareaud - Huget
Spedding

guess PSA got scared when he sasw the Lancaster selecion and put in a few more 1st choices. solid team appart from the outhalves.

When are the likes of the Chisholm bros, Walker,Wallace,Sinckler,OLH and Clifford going to properly come of age?

Quins have got numerous players with potential but still it's Easter,Care,Brown and Marler who you are reliant on.

Bringing in 8 foreigners isn't going to make things easier for the youngsters either.

Perhaps this will be Quins season - Quins won the AP when the last world cup was on....

beshocked wrote:When are the likes of the Chisholm bros, Walker,Wallace,Sinckler,OLH and Clifford going to properly come of age?

Quins have got numerous players with potential but still it's Easter,Care,Brown and Marler who you are reliant on.

Bringing in 8 foreigners isn't going to make things easier for the youngsters either.

Perhaps this will be Quins season - Quins won the AP when the last world cup was on....

James Chisholm is still only 20. Ross has had two bad injuries and may never reach his full potential
Wallace has stalled a bit and been overtaken by Clifford, who lost a year to injury and looks ready for international rugby to me.
Sinckler was doing fine until Burger took his knee out, but he'll be back this year. 2015 was always too soon for him.
Walker and OLH are both taking a little longer than I'd like to adapt from 7s, in different ways, but they might get there.
Bear in mind that all of those guys are under 25. I'm also hopeful that Lowe (still only 25 or 26) will be back to full fitness next year.

lostinwales wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Burgess put in a massive shift. Could easily have been man of the match. He is nailed on to make the squad. A back line of Ford, Burgess, Joseph, Watson, May and Brown is a back line filled with players with the X factor. They would scare any other team including NZ.

Well, I am tired of Burgess discussions already, but I will agree that there is potentially real exciting talent with Ford, Joseph, Watson, and Brown.  That leaves May.  I think he has shown he has the Rugby brain of an insect.  Kind of like those water bugs which skitter across the surface of a lake real fast but not really knowing where it is going.

Eh?! He scored a try, he saved a try only he could have saved, and he scared the jeebus out of the oppo all evening. For which he was universally rated.Some insect.

As for Sam - he'll make a top class 6. I predict he will not be considered an England centre again post RWC.[/quote

I'll have to go watch the game now but wasn't May down for an assist on Watson's 2nd try too?

Not only scored a try, saved a try, but completely made the second try for Watson, his burst in to the line and arching run drew all three defenders leaving Watson with a simple run in. He petrifies defences when he hits the line on that arc as they know that he has the pace to burn any of them off.

Poorfour wrote:

beshocked wrote:When are the likes of the Chisholm bros, Walker,Wallace,Sinckler,OLH and Clifford going to properly come of age?

Quins have got numerous players with potential but still it's Easter,Care,Brown and Marler who you are reliant on.

Bringing in 8 foreigners isn't going to make things easier for the youngsters either.

Perhaps this will be Quins season - Quins won the AP when the last world cup was on....

James Chisholm is still only 20. Ross has had two bad injuries and may never reach his full potential
Wallace has stalled a bit and been overtaken by Clifford, who lost a year to injury and looks ready for international rugby to me.
Sinckler was doing fine until Burger took his knee out, but he'll be back this year. 2015 was always too soon for him.
Walker and OLH are both taking a little longer than I'd like to adapt from 7s, in different ways, but they might get there.
Bear in mind that all of those guys are under 25. I'm also hopeful that Lowe (still only 25 or 26) will be back to full fitness next year.

Yeh I was going to say Clifford properly has come of age. He has had injury problems but was our best player last season, winning 3 end of season awards, and was excellent in the Barbarians game.

I think Matthews is one who we're waiting for to really kick on though. He's got some great attributes but hasn't ever really put together a run of top performances. Can be too upright in defence sometimes and resort to half-hearted arm tackles for one thing.

Interested to see how Fofana plays. PSA doesnt seem to know how to get the best out of his backs at all.

A succession of French managers have been unable to Guns...

Maybe theyre playing to restrictive rugby and need to say balls this and play the carefree rugby that we all love from the French...unless your on the receiving end of course...

I think Lancaster is getting blinded by the Sonny Bill Williams success story and is desperate to copy it with Burgess in the centres. But much as I am a fan of Burgess and his qualities, he is an out and out forward, whereas Sonny Bill was more of a half forward/half back. In league you get the Andy Farrell/Kevin Sinfield type of player who mostly play in the forwards but can play more than adequately in the backs and fulfil many of the duties of a back.

After this world cup is over I don't think we will see Burgess in the centres again, other than in emergency.

When I watch Basteraud play - he has similar bulk and power to Burgess - he just seems so easy to contain (get up on him quickly and tackle in two's and three's so you can strip the ball off him). The likes of Manu, Roberts and Nonu combine bulk and power with genuine backs skills. I just don't think bish bash bosh works in Union anymore - league and American Football yes, but not union.

Bastareaud at least usually keeps two defenders busy. if used correctly (mainly as a dummy) it can create space for others. Burgess similarly needed both french centres on him to get tackled.
am not sold on him anyway specially when fofana who is not a great distributor plays alongside but to be honest since PSA wants us to play simple one pass rugby then they are needed. best centre partnership was against england in the 6N with Mermoz at 12 and Lamerat / Fickou at 13 I think. poor in defense but some good hands in attack. the only real 12 (2nd 5/8) we have in the squad (dumoulin) will probably be left out anyway.
just learnt that TB-Michalak will be the 17th half back pairing tried by PSA - crazy stat!

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Burgess put in a massive shift. Could easily have been man of the match. He is nailed on to make the squad. A back line of Ford, Burgess, Joseph, Watson, May and Brown is a back line filled with players with the X factor. They would scare any other team including NZ.

Well, I am tired of Burgess discussions already, but I will agree that there is potentially real exciting talent with Ford, Joseph, Watson, and Brown.  That leaves May.  I think he has shown he has the Rugby brain of an insect.  Kind of like those water bugs which skitter across the surface of a lake real fast but not really knowing where it is going.

Eh?! He scored a try, he saved a try only he could have saved, and he scared the jeebus out of the oppo all evening. For which he was universally rated.Some insect.

As for Sam - he'll make a top class 6. I predict he will not be considered an England centre again post RWC.[/quote

I'll have to go watch the game now but wasn't May down for an assist on Watson's 2nd try too?

Not only scored a try, saved a try, but completely made the second try for Watson, his burst in to the line and arching run drew all three defenders leaving Watson with a simple run in. He petrifies defences when he hits the line on that arc as they know that he has the pace to burn any of them off.

I agree, May had a real good game.  And no doubts he has the physical goods to do real damage on a consistent basis.  But looking at the body of work over his career, has he really shown more good decision making than bad?  So did this one game show he is learning and developing?  Or was it an anomaly based upon his career?

thomh

Yes they are under 25 but there are many youngsters now who have pushed ahead.

Quins need their young generation to perform. Perhaps next year will be it. Just as Bath's backs came properly of age this season.

Poorfour Sinckler was doing fine? I thought he was worse than the 2014 season.

Remember him get sin binned and grinning about it - not a good attitude to have. Doesn't have great discipline IMO.


As for Bastearaud - he's good at what he does.

Whocares Fofana-Bastearaud might not be the best playmaking centre partnership in the world but both are dangerous in their own way. Will be a good test for England.

I like it actually - flair and brawn.

Plus Basterearaud will give England practice against a bosher in the centres before they play Wales.

Sinckler was having a bit of second-season syndrome - more of a known quantity last year. I've seen very few props who haven't had to adjust. He also had several injuries last year. I don't remember him having any serious disciplinary issues - certainly fewer than Marler had at the same age. I also wouldn't blame him for a wry grin if the bin was courtesy of a ref who misread a scrum. He's not a troublemaker, at any rate.

The big problem for Quins last year was that we had long periods when a lot of our senior players were away with England or injured. As a result we fielded a lot of XVs with very little experience.

Something similar happened in 2010-11. The following season worked out ok.

Perhaps not serious disciplinary issues - he's no Hartley but Hartley's one of the worst.

Was a bit hot headed and did pick up a few YCs. Did pick up a ban.

I don't think it was a misread scrum. Looking up his recent YCs I think it was his one vs Saints. I remember that game Quins battled well that day -his YC was stupid.

2011-12 worked out fine for Quins because Quins had the least players at the RWC.

I've said this many times - every side gets injuries. It's how you deal with them.

Even with the England backbone the Quins youngsters haven't kicked on IMO.

Experience is important sure but it's not everything.

An inexperienced player in good form can be more of an asset than an experienced player in poor form obviously.

There's no point arguing with you. Your opinions are your opinions, and you're entitled to them.

beshocked wrote:

2011-12 worked out fine for Quins because Quins had the least players at the RWC.

To an extent, but we did lose Easter, Fa'asavalu and Care (to a 3 month injury that kept him out of the tournament) and still had to win the knockouts, the final being against an on-form Leicester side who had just pounded Sarries in the semi final.

beshocked wrote:
I've said this many times - every side gets injuries. It's how you deal with them.

It's a nice sounding platitude and may work out vaguely over the course of a decade, but it's simply not true that in any given season each side has the same injury worries to deal with. I'd actually argue that having a fully fit squad for most of 2011/2012 was a bigger factor than the World Cup, whereas Leicester had Flood and Croft missing for the final.

By the time the 2012 final came around Leicester were out on their feet. We failed to cope with the demands of RWC11 which meant we had to play the first team consistently for the last 4 months of the season. Securing away wins at Sarries, Saints and Quins in that period showed what we could do, but Quins were the deserving title winners.

thomh Leicester didn't pound Saracens. A good win sure but not a pounding.

Quins did well to win the playoffs but I am sure that if they had to face Sarries in the playoffs they would have lost.

Actually many sides have had injuries it's just some clubs mention it more than others.

Anyway I will stop criticising Quins - I like Quins - just want your players to fulfil their potential.

Was saying the same of Bath's youngsters last season.

Anyway back to the French game - hope England win.

Will be interesting to see what PSA does in terms of French tactics and gameplan.

beshocked wrote:thomh Leicester didn't pound Saracens. A good win sure but not a pounding.

Quins did well to win the playoffs but I am sure that if they had to face Sarries in the playoffs they would have lost.

Actually many sides have had injuries it's just some clubs mention it more than others.

On the first point - just looked it up and for some reason I'd remembered it being more decisive that a 9 point win. Fair dos.

Not sure why you're so sure Quins would have lost to Sarries though, when Quins beat them at Wembley a couple of months earlier with Nick Evans off the pitch for half of it, nor why it's that relevant.

Of course all sides have injuries. What I don't understand is how you equate that to saying that all sides have equivalent injuries to the point where it has no bearing on the outcome of games/tournaments and isent worth mentioning when clearly that isn't the case. If France had snuck past New Zealand in 2011 do you not think it would have been reasonable to say that it might have been partly because Carter and Cruden were out? Do you not think Leicester, who seem to have horrific luck with it, might have done better this year with Allen and Tuilagi available?

thomh it was Quins only win over Sarries in the last few years - Quins just about got a win. Think you finished with 13 men too. It's relevant because not facing the team you've struggled with the most in the last few years is fortunate.

You can make excuses for losses or you can look at what you can do better. Injuries is an excuse sure but it's generally a lack of depth that lets a team down. Yes I know there is the salary cap etc but you have talented youngsters.

Injuries bring opportunities which should be grasped.

Leicester have had horrible injuries but you would think more players coming in would grasp the opportunities. Injuries can be a blessing as well as a curse.

Long term injury to Manu has meant Joseph has been given an opportunity at 13 for England. Don't need to bemoan Manu's injury because Joseph has done well.

Long term injury to Brits this season has given Jamie George his chance that he needed to stake a claim.

Ban for Hartley opens opportunity for others.

Farrell's injury allowed Ford his chance - now Farrell can't get the 10 spot back.

I'll just add that Quins' injury situation was pretty dire because it was all focused on the back row. Four weeks into the season, Easter and Fa'asavalu were still at the RWC and Skinner, Guest and York were crocked, which in Skinner's case turned out to be permanent. So we were playing a back row of Trayfoot, Wallace and Robshaw - one player still in the academy, one in his first senior year and one playing out of position.

To get back to something vaguely RWC-related, one huge thing for Quins that year was having a very motivated Chris Robshaw available all through the RWC period. There's an interesting analysis from the 6N by Rugby World here:

Rugby World

Robshaw gets through marginally less work than the Vunipolas or Morgan - but they are playing much less of each game than him. But he does 20% more than Wood and 35% more than Launchbury - who are regarded as very hard working players.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Tom Croft training with England this week.

Not a contender for the squad - but to ensure he is up to speed with the patterns should there be an injury.

With Croft's luck, the next injury will be his.

How unfortunately accurate

Looking forward to seeing what Ford can do, last weekend the backline seemed to work despite Farrell, so it'll be refreshing to see what an attacking 10 can do, and if he can nail the sort of tough kicks that Faz (mostly) managed.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Tom Croft training with England this week.

Not a contender for the squad - but to ensure he is up to speed with the patterns should there be an injury.

With Croft's luck, the next injury will be his.

How unfortunately accurate

??

Googled it but don't see any news on Croft...

Rumours from the fantasy game section, not sure what Pooly's source is but he's often right

Rumours from the fantasy game section, not sure what Pooly's source is but he's often right