France v England, 22nd August

First topic message reminder :

 
FRANCE v ENGLAND
22 August 2015
KO: 20:00 BST (21:00 Local)
Stade de France, Paris

Sky Sports

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: John Lacey (Ireland) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

100 Played 100
38 Won 55
7 Drawn 7
55 Lost 38
1,244 Points 1,572

B. Recent Form

15 August 2015
Twickenham, London
19-14 to England

21 March 2015
Twickenham, London
55 – 35 to England

1 February 2014
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
26 – 24 to France

23 February 2013
Twickenham, London
23 – 13 to England

11 March 2012
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
22 – 24 to England


C. Teams

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 37 caps)
14. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 8 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 11 caps)
12. Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints, 12 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 14 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 11 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 47 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 31 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 50 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 22 caps)
5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 38 caps)
6. James Haskell (Wasps, 59 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 37 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 13 caps)

Replacements

16. Jamie George (Saracens, uncapped)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens,21 caps)
18. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 42 caps)
19. Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
20. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 51 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 51 caps)
22. Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks, 13 caps)
23. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 21 caps)

FRANCE


Spedding; Huget, Bastareaud, Fofana, Nakaitaci; Michalak, Tillous-Borde; Arous, Guirado, Slimani, Pape, Maestri, Chouly, Le Roux, Picamoles.

Replacements: Kayser, Debaty, Atonio, Flanquart, Nyanga, Kockott, Tales, Fickou.

I think more worrying than the loss are the specific weaknesses it pointed out; lineout and not winning any ball at the breakdown. And reinforced that we're unable to play without the ball without giving away masses of penalties.

Duty281 wrote:Well the last time England lost to France in a world cup warm-up game, they went on to make the final (2007). And...um....the last time England lost to France by a solitary score in a world cup warm-up game, they went on to conquer the world (2003).

Like your optimism. Hope you are right.

Though the slight difference was that the game England lost in 2003 was a 2nd string England side.

It's slightly more alarming that the team that were 25-6 down to France at one point were basically the full strength team.

Don't know what Lancaster's been doing in training!

Perhaps this is mind games by Lancaster and England - lulling every other team into overconfidence then bam! Stick 50 + points on Fiji.

Have they just been doing fitness training leading to players losing too much weight and not doing much set piece work?

Did the England pack really look alarming underpowered? Or was that just the reports going OTT.

Lack of intensity and bad decision making in general for me. Never adapted to the ref, hope thats sorted for Fiji.

They were still being beasted in training right up to the game. That is now being tailored off so hopefully we will see more energy against Ireland in 10 days.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lack of intensity and bad decision making in general for me. Never adapted to the ref, hope thats sorted for Fiji.

Same ref. Hope they have been studying the video carefully.

Yup. Should be fairly easy to fix you'd think as a lot of the actual pens were just stupid but they seemed a little unsure how much they'd get away with.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yup. Should be fairly easy to fix you'd think as a lot of the actual pens were just stupid but they seemed a little unsure how much they'd get away with.

Yes, but since on occasion it seemed they couldn't even get away with perfectly legal actions, you can understand the confusion to some degree.

Yup!

It does get a bit tired constantly saying players have to adapt to the referee. Shouldn't have to change how they play dependent on different interpretations.

It really wasnt the referee though. If you look at what the penalties for, and what the England players themselves are saying, it was down to poor discpline and players doing things they knew they shouldnt have.
You didnt even see the front row flipping out too much about the reffing of the scrum, which is incredibly rare when one sides getting tooled.

the pens were stupid play as I've said bar Cole who was a bit hard done by. Problem was i think the England players were holding back a bit as weren't sure.

Scrum was just silly given the turf, I'm reading nothing into that.

No 7&1/2 wrote:the pens were stupid play as I've said bar Cole who was a bit hard done by. Problem was i think the England players were holding back a bit as weren't sure.

Scrum was just silly given the turf, I'm reading nothing into that.

Even Burrell was unlucky for the first one I thought, not in the sense that it wasn't a penalty - just got stuck on the wrong side after the tackle when the French players piled in. I haven't watched it back so may well be wrong but my impression at the time was that there wasn't any intent or stupidity, it's just one of those things that happens from time to time.

Agree on the pitch as well, and surprised it hasn't had more criticism actually. It was as bad as any I've seen for a rugby match.

Big wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:the pens were stupid play as I've said bar Cole who was a bit hard done by. Problem was i think the England players were holding back a bit as weren't sure.

Scrum was just silly given the turf, I'm reading nothing into that.

Even Burrell was unlucky for the first one I thought, not in the sense that it wasn't a penalty - just got stuck on the wrong side after the tackle when the French players piled in.  I haven't watched it back so may well be wrong but my impression at the time was that there wasn't any intent or stupidity, it's just one of those things that happens from time to time.

Agree on the pitch as well, and surprised it hasn't had more criticism actually.  It was as bad as any I've seen for a rugby match.

It was a good tackle he fell on the wrong side and made no attempt or at least was seen to make no attempt at rolling away. All pros try to lock in tacklers and earn a pen. If possible and Burrell should have made some attempt Imo.

Pitch was a farce and dangerous - did they buy it from the WRU?

I think refs should be in structed to be more lenient on that - if a tackler is not trying to slow the ball down, they should not be penalised if they have opponents lying on top of them. It's too easy a way to milk a penalty.

My favourite is the scrum half falling over the tackler in a tragically successful accident.

No 7&1/2 wrote:My favourite is the scrum half falling over the tackler in a tragically successful accident.

Interestingly, in U11 mini-rugby, falling on another player is a penalty offense unless the ref is certain it was accidental. I'd like to see that one work its way up through the age grade laws.