Scotland v Italy, 29 August

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SCOTLAND v ITALY
29 August 2015
KO: 15:15 BST
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BT Sport

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant Referees: [TBC]
TMO: [TBC]

A. Head to Head

24 Played 24
16 Won 8
0 Drawn 0
8 Lost 8
540 Points 428

B. Recent Form

22 August 2015
Stadio Olimpico di Torino, Turin
12–16 to Scotland

28 February 2015
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh
19 – 22 to Italy

22 February 2014
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
20 – 21 to Scotland

22 June 2013
Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria, South Africa
30 – 29 to Scotland

9 February 2013
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
34 – 10 to Scotland

17 March 2012
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
13 – 6 to Italy

20 August 2011
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
23 – 12 to Scotland

19 March 2011
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
21 – 8 to Scotland

C. Teams

SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps; 9 tries, 1 pen, 48 points
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) – 95 caps; 12 tries, 60 points
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
12 Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps, 1 try, 1 con, 1 pen, 10 points
11 Tim Visser (Harlequins); 19 caps; 7 tries, 35 points
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps; 1 try, 1 con, 7 points
09 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester) – 39 caps; 3 tries, 41 cons, 81 pens, 340 points

01 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 45 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
02 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 87 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
03 Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
04 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 9 caps, 1 try, 5 points
05 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps; 1 try, 5 points
06 Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
07 John Barclay (Scarlets) – 44 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
08 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) – 26 caps

16 Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 10 caps
18 Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps; 1 try
19 Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors) – 16 caps; 1 try, 5 points
20 Blair Cowan (London Irish) – 12 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 15 caps; 4 tries, 20 points
22 Ruaridh Jackson (Wasps) – 26 caps; 4 cons, 2 pens, 2 drops, 20 points
23 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 27 caps, 3 tries, 15 points

ITALY

15 Luke McLean, 14 Angelo Esposito, 13 Michele Campagnaro, 12 Luca Morisi, 11 Leonardo Sarto, 10 Tommaso Allan, 9 Guglielmo Palazzani; 1 Matias Aguero, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini (c), 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 4 Marco Fuser, 5 Joshua Furno, 6 Alessandro Zanni, 7 Francesco Minto, 8 Samuela Vunisa.

Replacements: 16 Andrea Manici, 17 Michele Rizzo, 18 Dario Chistolini, 19 Quintin Geldenhuys, 20 Mauro Bergamasco, 21 Marcello Violi, 22 Carlo Canna, 23 Andrea Masi.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'd swap Horne and Scott, but otherwise I'm pretty comfortable with that team.

So would I but I am assuming that playing alongside his club 10 and midfield will be a more gentle transition back into the game for Bennett.

What did I say about Horne and Bennett...

Usual Italian hieroglyphs:


Every week I pray that one of their Twitter names will be something like @Ilovadaspicymeetaballa

That already belongs to wee Duncan doesn't it?

I reckon Maitland is for the chop and he is in serious danger of becoming the forgotten man especially now he has headed off to a relatively low-profile LI team. While I can understand giving Dunbar as much time as possible to recover from his injury, I don't think Maitland justifies this. Given the lack of updates on Maitland's shoulder, it would indicate that he isn't at the front of the coaches' minds

Edinburgh Evening News wrote: The coach said that Tommy Seymour, who tweaked his back before the Ireland game, and Sean Maitland, who is coming back from a long-term shoulder injury, were both close to featuring this weekend, but the medical staff felt they needed another week.

Looks like both are shoe ins, and given the options for the back three I think they have to be, Maitland's versatility across the back three could be invaluable, and let's not pretend that either Hoyland or Lamont is in the same league as him. Visser brings a similar skill set in attack, for all the jokes about Maitland's prowess he has a similar record of try scoring against Tier One teams as almost all Scotland wingers have, albeit it is still dreadful. Maitland is an outstanding rugby player, he's been picked for the Lions, the Crudaders, the Maori and very nearly, in some opinions, the All Blacks, we have few players of his quality and I'd be interested to see how his record matches up against Visser and Lamont when you factor in assists and defense. He seems to have become quite a popular player to knock in recent weeks, but honestly would anyone rather have Visser than Maitland in a big game?

I would rather have Maitland, every time, as long as he is fit. When did he last play a game in anger? the away game to Bath was where he picked up his injury (January 25th).
Hell of an ask for any back three player to come back to top form with no games under his belt and going straight  into a world cup.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'm not saying for one minute I would select Horne/Bennett in tandem - I would always pick one of Scott/Dunbar at 12, or possibly play both Scott/Dunbar in tandem. I just don't think it's as simple as saying you have to have a ball carrier, not when you have Lamont on the wing who could easily take the crash ball from first phase off the fly half. What you really need is a balanced backline - whether the centres balance or not can be offset by what you have on the wing.

Still, all the best team as you rightly say have a physical player in the centres. Luckily for them they all seem to have big blokes who can also play a bit, whereas in the past we've always had to choose between small and skillful vs big and lumbering.

Well Cotter has gone made me look stupid!

I still stand by you need one centre good at carrying - suppose it's a bit like playing 2 7s in the backrow, it creates a different type of game. I assume he has seen something in the Italian structure that could be broken with this centre pair or wants to see if they can handle the "carrying" side of the game.

cp10 - to be honest I'm not entirely convinced it will work, but it will give Italy something to think about as we'll have a slightly unconventional attacking shape. It should also bring the best out of Lamont as well, as he'll be able to come off his wing on the crash, which is what he's good at. In fact I think we'll see Visser doing a bit of that as well, which should make us less predictable. I certainly don't see Horne or Bennett taking the ball route one.

Re: Maitland I'm pretty confident that Cotter will take him. He's a completely different class of player to Sean Lamont and one warm-up game plus starts against Japan and USA should get him ready. I've thoroughly enjoyed taking the mick out of his complete inability to cross the try line (with the ball), but his is a classy player and in full flight he's probably the fastest player in the squad.

I'm pretty confident we'll go well tomorrow, and the squad is starting to take shape.

funnyExiledScot wrote:cp10 - to be honest I'm not entirely convinced it will work, but it will give Italy something to think about as we'll have a slightly unconventional attacking shape. It should also bring the best out of Lamont as well, as he'll be able to come off his wing on the crash, which is what he's good at. In fact I think we'll see Visser doing a bit of that as well, which should make us less predictable. I certainly don't see Horne or Bennett taking the ball route one.

Re: Maitland I'm pretty confident that Cotter will take him. He's a completely different class of player to Sean Lamont and one warm-up game plus starts against Japan and USA should get him ready. I've thoroughly enjoyed taking the mick out of his complete inability to cross the try line (with the ball), but his is a classy player and in full flight he's probably the fastest player in the squad.

I'm pretty confident we'll go well tomorrow, and the squad is starting to take shape.

Do you reckon he's faster than Hogg?

This centre partnership should be pretty successful - both are familiar with each other and their support play is very good. Just look at Bennett's (perfectly legitimate) try against Wales.

Some interesting comments from Cotter in the Scotsman regarding Ryan Wilson:

Vern Cotter wrote:“He’s been… well I would almost put him in the outstanding category with what he’s bringing – his competitive nature and his skillset. I think he’s the fastest forward we have.”

Oh and numbers, I would go for Visser over Maitland on current form. A winger's job is to score tries (as a hooker's is to throw and an openside's is to steal). Given the tiniest amount of ball Visser can do that in spades (as he almost showed a fortnight ago when he would have been dust were it not for a trip by Zebo).

I haven't seen Maitland do a true winger's job since he was in New Zealand. That's an awfully long time. This is one reason I think he's trying to switch to fullback (he stated as much and LI see him as one) so that he can use his other skills. I think that makes sense. A battle between him and Hogg for the 15 berth would only be good for competition with Seymour and Visser on the wings.

Oh and the same article said:

Cotter revealed that injured centre Alex Dunbar was seeing a specialist in London yesterday and, as with all players, his medical report will be fully assessed on Monday before the final 31-man squad is picked, then announced the following day.

The coach said that Tommy Seymour, who tweaked his back before the Ireland game, and Sean Maitland, who is coming back from a long-term shoulder injury, were both close to featuring this weekend, but the medical staff felt they needed another week.

O/T and kind of a delayed reaction - Just saw some highlights from the game last weekend, John Hardie's first up tackling is absolutely supreme. The guy obviously has scant regard for his own wellbeing and is all-action. He looked very quick to get on his feet after a tackle to challenge legally for the ball as well, even if it wasn't on. Hope he finds himself a decent club and it looks like someone will be getting a gem of a player.

I stil lthink he'll go to Edinburgh. Shame for Watson but hopefully it will push the tow of them on to be even better!

Agree - I expect him to come to Edinburgh. I thought I heard that Roddy Grant would be leaving at the end of the season in any case.

Du Preez, Coman, Hardie, Watson, Manu and Denton is a cracking group of loose forwards, with young Ritchie and Bradbury coming through.

tigertattie wrote:I stil lthink he'll go to Edinburgh. Shame for Watson but hopefully it will push the tow of them on to be even better!

In 2014/15 Glasgow have 4 Scottish International centres into 2 positions and still they used Lamont, Braid and Downey. This situation is littered around Glasgow. Minimum of 26 games a season so plenty of game time to take you to the level needed.

Watson should look at it as a bonus - someone to work with in training and learn a lot off and push him to be better player to gain the No 1 spot. It's more likely to be Roddy Grant that'll loose out.

Roddy is only really there for world cup cover! He was meant to go over the summer but has stayed on a bit to help Edinburgh out!  Shows you the character of the man that he's willing to pospose his move back to Swazeeland to help the club out after being overlooked for an international cap yet again!

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:cp10 - to be honest I'm not entirely convinced it will work, but it will give Italy something to think about as we'll have a slightly unconventional attacking shape. It should also bring the best out of Lamont as well, as he'll be able to come off his wing on the crash, which is what he's good at. In fact I think we'll see Visser doing a bit of that as well, which should make us less predictable. I certainly don't see Horne or Bennett taking the ball route one.

Re: Maitland I'm pretty confident that Cotter will take him. He's a completely different class of player to Sean Lamont and one warm-up game plus starts against Japan and USA should get him ready. I've thoroughly enjoyed taking the mick out of his complete inability to cross the try line (with the ball), but his is a classy player and in full flight he's probably the fastest player in the squad.

I'm pretty confident we'll go well tomorrow, and the squad is starting to take shape.

Do you reckon he's faster than Hogg?

Not over the first 20 metres, but yes over longer distances. Just watch some of his career highlight tries in NZ - he can seriously shift.

I think Maitland bulked up too much when he came over here - he was a bit of a whippet over there and was absolutely rapid. We haven't seen that so much here.

Remember that break against Aus that he couldn't finish off?

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think Maitland bulked up too much when he came over here - he was a bit of a whippet over there and was absolutely rapid. We haven't seen that so much here.

Remember that break against Aus that he couldn't finish off?

I think that was down to a loss of confidence rather than a lack of pace. That's the sort of opportunity Visser would have scored. Not because he's faster, but because his opinion of himself and his abilities is almost Salmond-esque. He would always back himself.

If I recall correctly Maitland also checked and passed the ball to Lamont on that occassion, who did a fine impression of running in treacle with his shoe laces tied together against a 100mph headwind. Had Maitland passed to Visser again I suspect Visser would have scored from the position Lamont was in (as would Uncle Dougie), and Maitland's decision would have been criticised less.

Ciao juve

I've been following developments at a distance, took Mrs Pip to Brighton for a couple of days. The team for Saturday looks good; any team with ; Jackson, Family-sized Meatball and Henners Piecrust on the bench has plenty of attacking options.

In a very simplistic way of looking at rugby, you need to do two things; win the ball, keep it away from the opposition.

Playing Dancer and Furra Linee in mid-field should help us get the ball away from the Italian pack provided the glacial one actually passes the ball occasionally. I see Hornee playing as a second stand off and the plan being to play as far away from the Italian pack as possible. If it's not working we bring on the wide boy at 12. Simple.

I seriously hope Jackson comes on and has a blinder. He's our best alternative at 10.

madmaccas wrote:Some interesting comments from Cotter in the Scotsman regarding Ryan Wilson:

Vern Cotter wrote:“He’s been… well I would almost put him in the outstanding category with what he’s bringing – his competitive nature and his skillset. I think he’s the fastest forward we have.”

Oh and numbers, I would go for Visser over Maitland on current form. A winger's job is to score tries (as a hooker's is to throw and an openside's is to steal). Given the tiniest amount of ball Visser can do that in spades (as he almost showed a fortnight ago when he would have been dust were it not for a trip by Zebo).

I haven't seen Maitland do a true winger's job since he was in New Zealand. That's an awfully long time. This is one reason I think he's trying to switch to fullback (he stated as much and LI see him as one) so that he can use his other skills. I think that makes sense. A battle between him and Hogg for the 15 berth would only be good for competition with Seymour and Visser on the wings.

But that's an exceptionally rudimental view of rugby, if every player just did the job description we'd be beaten every time. Even more so the job of a rugby team is to win games, Maitland has been around a long time but hasn't played too many games for Scotland due to injury and the Lions, furthermore since Maitland's first cap he has scored two international tries and Visser three, to put that into perspective Tommy Seymour scored 4 in the Autumn alone. So when you consider since 2013 when Maitland made his debut Visser has contributed 15 points, even his most ardent fans have to accept his role in build up play is at best minimal and at worst counter productive, then consider how many points his defence has cost then I'm prepared to bet money his points difference is almost certainly in the red, on the other hand Maitland's defence is solid and his attacking pedigree is, whilst inconsistent, undoubtable and his role in general play is also vastly superior, watch his try against England in 2013 or Matt Scott's against Italy in the same year or even the much spoken of break against Australia where the initial break he made was indicative of his ability and whilst he must shoulder the majority of blame for the lack of finish you can't help but think that had it been Seymour or even the shying Dutchman on the end of the pass there would have been a try rather than a man who seems to be aiming merely to help the tech guys who do the slow motion highlights on the rugby World Cup official review DVD. Visser is a fantastic finisher, arguably and most probably the best we have, on the front foot he's an outstanding asset and could prove invaluable in the first couple of games but we need to be realistic and accept that for between 60-80% of the game against South Africa there will need to be a fantastic and resilient rearguard action that Andy Robinson, for all his faults, seemed to be able to conjure against Southern Hemisphere sides for us to get a positive result and that also to beat Samoa we will have to be solid in defense as well as potent in attack, in both of those scenarios I'd take Maitland every time. That's not to say Visser is a bad player but I'd say in terms of all round ability he's one or two leagues behind Maitland and his attacking prowess and Maitland's deficiencies are exaggerated.

123456789 wrote:

madmaccas wrote:Some interesting comments from Cotter in the Scotsman regarding Ryan Wilson:

Vern Cotter wrote:“He’s been… well I would almost put him in the outstanding category with what he’s bringing – his competitive nature and his skillset. I think he’s the fastest forward we have.”

Oh and numbers, I would go for Visser over Maitland on current form. A winger's job is to score tries (as a hooker's is to throw and an openside's is to steal). Given the tiniest amount of ball Visser can do that in spades (as he almost showed a fortnight ago when he would have been dust were it not for a trip by Zebo).

I haven't seen Maitland do a true winger's job since he was in New Zealand. That's an awfully long time. This is one reason I think he's trying to switch to fullback (he stated as much and LI see him as one) so that he can use his other skills. I think that makes sense. A battle between him and Hogg for the 15 berth would only be good for competition with Seymour and Visser on the wings.

But that's an exceptionally rudimental view of rugby, if every player just did the job description we'd be beaten every time. Even more so the job of a rugby team is to win games, Maitland has been around a long time but hasn't played too many games for Scotland due to injury and the Lions, furthermore since Maitland's first cap he has scored two international tries and Visser three, to put that into perspective Tommy Seymour scored 4 in the Autumn alone. So when you consider since 2013 when Maitland made his debut Visser has contributed 15 points, even his most ardent fans have to accept his role in build up play is at best minimal and at worst counter productive, then consider how many points his defence has cost then I'm prepared to bet money his points difference is almost certainly in the red, on the other hand Maitland's defence is solid and his attacking pedigree is, whilst inconsistent, undoubtable and his role in general play is also vastly superior, watch his try against England in 2013 or Matt Scott's against Italy in the same year or even the much spoken of break against Australia where the initial break he made was indicative of his ability and whilst he must shoulder the majority of blame for the lack of finish you can't help but think that had it been Seymour or even the shying Dutchman on the end of the pass there would have been a try rather than a man who seems to be aiming merely to help  the tech guys who do the slow motion highlights on  the rugby World Cup official review DVD. Visser is a fantastic finisher, arguably and most probably the best we have, on the front foot he's an outstanding asset and could prove invaluable in the first couple of games but we need to be realistic and accept that for between 60-80% of the game against South Africa there will need to be a fantastic and resilient rearguard action that Andy Robinson, for all his faults, seemed to be able to conjure against Southern Hemisphere sides for us to get a positive result and that also to beat Samoa we will have to be solid in defense as well as potent in attack, in both of those scenarios I'd take Maitland every time. That's not to say Visser is a bad player but I'd say in terms of all round ability he's one or two leagues behind Maitland and his attacking prowess and Maitland's deficiencies are exaggerated.

Tick..tick...tick......FES BOMB is lit.......

Hey, I'm chilled with Maitland. I'd pick Seymour and Maitland as my first choice winger and agree with more of 123456789's comments.

I would rank our wingers as follows:

1.Seymour
2.Maitland
3.Visser



4.Uncle Dougie




Last: Lamont

funnyExiledScot wrote:Hey, I'm chilled with Maitland. I'd pick Seymour and Maitland as my first choice winger and agree with more of 123456789's comments.

I would rank our wingers as follows:

1.Seymour
2.Maitland
3.Visser



4.Uncle Dougie




Last: Lamont

Agreeing, how disapointing - nothing gets a Friday moving faster than a nice 'debate' on 606v2

So - NDL - a great player or a jubblies for hands journeyman?

Riskysports wrote:Agreeing, how disapointing - nothing gets a Friday moving faster than a nice 'debate' on 606v2

So - NDL -   a great player or a jubblies for hands journeyman?

World Class.

You make a good point. There's far too much consensus these days on these boards. I think part of the problem is that Edinburgh man-shamed Glasgow in the 1872, and Jimbo and Schizoid lost confidence from that point.

The other issue is that Hadden, Robinson and Johnson no longer select the Scotland team, so there's a horrible whiff of competence creeping into Scottish rugby, or at least the team selection. We're still the proud owners of the 6 Nations Wooden Spoon, although apparently that isn't the coaches fault in the same way it used to be. Not sure why.

Still, thank goodness we're not an independent country.

Oh dear, someone hasn't been getting enough"attention" recently methinks.
I was at the first leg of the Slaughter of the Effeminates and the Luvvie fans around us were embarrassed by their team's ineptitude. In the second leg we paid the price for not taking you seriously but still were within one kick of retaining the bauble.
Normal service will be resumed and the bauble will be held aloft by Shuggie B, Big Tacky, Wee Junior and the Psycho Penguin come January.

I think the reason that I'm particularly nervous about today is that we don't really (apart from usual pile of old ladyparts about 'lacking match sharpness') have any excuses for not playing well.

Everyone should be back and firing with guys like Barclay and Wilson wanting to play out of their skins to get into the final 31. I am tired of these tight, attritional grinds with Italy. I want us to absolutely hammer them.

George Carlin wrote: I am tired of these tight, attritional grinds with Italy. I want us to absolutely hammer them.

well said, I'll second that!

I think we just need to up the tempo - Italy do all they can to turn it into a slow, turgid affair. Castro is the world's worst - every 2nd breakdown he's down getting treatment, tying his laces etc.

So quick taps, pick and goes through the middle if their ruck defence is not set up properly, moving the ball wide, wee chips over the top to keep them moving etc.

That's what we did three 6N ago when we pumped them, and what we started doing this year before allowing the game to turn into an arm wrestle, which we lost.

Wilson and Barclay on the breakaway, Russell distributing with his regular midfield receiving - if we can't get fast attack ball from that, then as a nation we really should give this rugby malarkey up and go back to curling, scone making and casual racism as our national sports.

Aye, but Frodo us at 9 FFS. In

The world cup has sucked me back into the 606v2 Scottish vortex of nonsense.

To my mind thats 4/5 players away from being a full strength team. Unlike the vast majority of recent squad announcements, there is a good balance throughout the team. I would have preferred to have seen Scott (12) in midfield, as I think he and Bennett will be the starting pairing come the crunch games, but I can have no complaints about Horne being there - he has been the standout player in the last two games.

The big area of intrigue is obviously the back row, looking forward with interest to see how Barclay and Wilson perform.

I'm going to second GC and want to see this team put Italy away, I genuinely think we have the players to do it and its about time they proved it.

Although again worth remembering that most of these guys are playing one of their first games in months!

True RDW, but the same can be said for the Italy players, who have had what, one game together? History suggests it will probably be a scrappy, close affair - but I compare the teams and I really think that our players are a step up in quality.

Maybe thats the deluded Scottish fan inside me speaking.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Although again worth remembering that most of these guys are playing one of their first games in months!

To quote my 18 month old son, no, noh, no, no no, nooooooh.

We have to stop making excuses. These guys that haven't played should have been thinking about nothing else but this game for the past 6 weeks. ALL nations are trying out different combinations but this is largely the band of brothers that took home a pro franchise title last year.

We won't get great play unless we expect great play. As Gibson would say...

Anyone know of any good (safe) streams to watch the game later? i seriously doubt i will be able to persuade any barman down here to bypass Ireland v Wales for Scotland v Italy

Just bought my shirt - seems well put-together, good feel to it. Incidentally, the Adult S has now been discontinued in favour of the Junior XL, which I bought. Apparently pointing that out to a murrayfield bouncer that doesn't think he needs to ID me is a weird thing to say.

I miss being young.

Actually think that Wilson will give a lot today. Maybe got comfortable at Glasgow pre-kebab incident. Now a real second chance - might well make the final cut if he storms the field today. Watching Frodo with interest today, can the shackles of a limited gameplan be lifted from him? Time will tell, Henners to come on should keep quick ball in his mind though.

ps any links at all? Also stuffed by virtue of being in England - wendyball in pubs

Apparently a key player hobbled off in the warm up missed who it was but I'm slightly emptying myself in trepidation.

Bru, I'll be back in 32 inch waist breeks before you're wearing a man's large.

123456789 wrote:Apparently a key player hobbled off in the warm up missed who it was but I'm slightly emptying myself in trepidation.

It was Hogg, as far as I know

Also, could someone point me to a good place to see the game. Usual places have nothing.

Try first row sports or cricfree they're normally quite good, Hogg's in the line up for the anthem though so maybe things are fine.

ta numbers

I would warn you that unless you're looking for young mums in the locality then the pop ups are rather irritating to begin with

Another one is cricfree.tv pretty good picture

Cracking try by sean lamont and great vision by finn Russell.

Next points/ try is crucial, if we get it we can escape the arm wrestle and we should see a good game.

Majestic83 wrote:Another one is cricfree.tv pretty good picture

can't see the picture for the adverts!

A Simply Mesmeric Try wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:Another one is cricfree.tv pretty good picture

can't see the picture for the adverts!

Try to find the full screen button